Current Events > It feels like every death battle is now just omniverse-tier characters

(+) Yeah! (+)

Literally every character has some feat where they can "destroy a multiverse" and are basically omnipotent gods, but this omnipotent god is slightly more omnipotent than the other omnipotent god therefore they are the winner.

But then they struggle against some ordinary human at times or something dumb.

Like, hearing about Rick vs the doctor; it's just the doctor who fans talking about how Rick has literally no chance because of this 1983 obscure piece of media or such despite both characters frequently struggling against guy with a gun (for story or joke purposes). I feel like tv shows/comics don't really have a good grasp of the size and scope of a galaxy much less a universe. Power scaling is kinda lame nowadays. Honestly, playground "who would in a fight" are more entertaining than hearing these Tier-A2 multiverse low-scale omnipotent terms being thrown around.

But... I guess that's just a bad feature of long-lasting tv shows where the coolness comes in how destructive you can be. Being able to punch a hole through a brick wall just doesn't do much for people anymore.

On a side note, the idea of toon force as some power level in discussion is super lame too. It kinda simplifies the rules of cartoony physics way too much as if there aren't times when sometimes "rule of cool" or other rules trump out "rule of funny" or such. It's also taking "toon force" as a concept too seriously, and in a way I don't think we are supposed to think of.

I mean, that's why everyone that has been saying that the whole thing is dumb from the get go has been saying that it's dumb. It was pretty obvious from the get go that the second that characters from flagrantly different situations were matched up with one another that this is where it was going to end up. Similarly the whole concept of the "toon force" is just an extrapolation of what essentially 99.9% of what makes up the whole affair. For every character like The Flash where they recognize that physics would absolutely not work with what they were saying there are hundreds of thousands that the person doing the writing flagrantly is just doing things because it seems cool and not actually giving a crap about the actual physical ramifications (which is cool up until someone tries to do something like compare their strength versus another character from a different setting).

PiOverlord posted...

Literally every character has some feat where they can "destroy a multiverse" and are basically omnipotent gods, but this omnipotent god is slightly more omnipotent than the other omnipotent god therefore they are the winner.

I think they just had one that was Frieza versus Megatron, so it was "universe destroyer" versus "robot who can turn into a pretty big gun."

ellis123 posted...

I mean, that's why everyone that has been saying that the whole thing is dumb from the get go has been saying that it's dumb. It was pretty obvious from the get go that the second that characters from flagrantly different situations were matched up with one another that this is where it was going to end up. Similarly the whole concept of the "toon force" is just an extrapolation of what essentially 99.9% of what makes up the whole affair. For every character like The Flash where they recognize that physics would absolutely not work with what they were saying there are hundreds of thousands that the person doing the writing flagrantly is just doing things because it seems cool and not actually giving a crap about the actual physical ramifications (which is cool up until someone tries to do something like compare their strength versus another character from a different setting).

I mean, I never have taken DB as some gospel because it really is just a big budget playground argument. It's more so how every character in the series is just characters who all-powerful despite losing to weak characters at the end of the day because story matters more than this idea of powerscaling.

there is so much wanking because its common for lower tier characters to fight against higher tier characters and either win or not die. so then powerscalers scale that lower tier character up to the ballpark of the higher tier character even if its an outlier or the author just wants to have fun

or there is some vague feats that let people go ham since what is there to stop them? dragonball super is full of them (like goku bypassing Hits weak time stop power = him being above time and space or some shit).

or misinterpreting/mistranslating japanese light novel feats (like metaphorical descriptions such as "super dimensional character" being taken seriously and now that character who has only street level feats is above 3 dimensional).

Ratchetrockon posted...

there is so much wanking because its common for lower tier characters to fight against higher tier characters and either win or not die. so then they scale that lower tier character up

or there is some vague feats that let people go ham. dragonball super is full of them (like goku bypassing hits weak time stop power = him being above time or some shit). so now they can say whatever they want

or misinterpreting/mistranlating japanese light novel feats (like metaphorical descriptions such as "super dimensional character" being taken seriously and now that character who has only street level feats is above 3 dimensional).

I recall Link vs Cloud being full of this (both fights). Examples such as Link dodging a laser beam meaning he has faster than light reaction when I think we all know that's just bologna. Speed seems to be the worst thing in discussion as people will always find something that makes a character end up being faster-than-light despite struggling constantly to find average humans that disappear within a few seconds when faster-than-light should mean you could run all over the place and find said character instantly.

Durability and strength end up pretty bad too for reasons I mentioned in OP.

Edit: Don't even get me started on matchups involving character A vs character B, but character B needs xyz to be killed that A doesn't have. Why even have that matchup then? Character A could be God and you would say they can't kill B because they don't have the ability to twist their pinky into a knot which is the only way to kill B. Reminds me of Bowser vs Ganondorf when they subscribed to the idea that Ganon is unkillable without a sacred weapon like the master sword. I don't think they would come to the same conclusion nowadays, but if that was the reasoning, why even have them fight? You clearly just made Ganondorf a "Link-only" fight.

PiOverlord posted...

I mean, I never have taken DB as some gospel because it really is just a big budget playground argument. It's more so how every character in the series is just characters who all-powerful despite losing to weak characters at the end of the day because story matters more than this idea of powerscaling.

I wasn't trying to mean just DB itself, but the entire concept. The second that you start to branch out beyond a couple of very specific examples you quickly end up with characters who are exactly as you say in that they are extremely inconsistent to an absurd degree. Thus it very much comes out as a "this person wins because I like them more" more than anything else as most of the time just going off of strict math is just going to end up nowhere, yet if you go past that to look at the math you end up with patently goofy nonsense.

oh a funny one ive seen. so in one of the dmc novels there is a description of Urizen causing the earth to shake (i believe this was machine translated just based on how it looked lol).

so to me this means he caused a local earthquake. Earth probably means the ground right?

some people believe it means he shook the entire planet. so now urizen is a continental+ tier character minimum despite not really having feats for that. i still think he is like city level max.

ellis123 posted...

I wasn't trying to mean just DB itself, but the entire concept. The second that you start to branch out beyond a couple of very specific examples you quickly end up with characters who are exactly as you say in that they are extremely inconsistent to an absurd degree. Thus it very much comes out as a "this person wins because I like them more" more than anything else as most of the time just going off of strict math is just going to end up nowhere, yet if you go past that to look at the math you end up with patently goofy nonsense.

Yeah, very fair. Death Battle is cool as I do like the animations; I just find powerscaling discussions in general to be dumb nowadays. When did every character become multiversal?

Ratchetrockon posted...

oh a funny one ive seen. so in one of the dmc novels there is a description of Urizen causing the earth to shake (i believe this was machine translated just based on how it looked lol).

so to me this means he caused a local earthquake. Earth probably means the ground right?

some people believe it means he shook the entire planet. so now urizen is a continental+ tier character minimum despite not really having feats for that. i still think he is like city level max.

Yeah, you see that all the time too. One-time feats that are way above their normal paygrade either through ambiguity as you mentioned, or a writer that believes in the "rule of cool" above all and just wants to make the character do something outrageous so people will think the character is awesome.

I love Mario, and he does have super strength to some degree, but the scene where he kicks a castle in SMW is funny to use as a strength feat. This is a character who is shown to be able to pick up things like King Bob-omb, but not easily. It's clearly a case where Mario kicking a castle in the air is funny because you're not supposed to take that seriously, lol. You're not supposed to take that and use that to mean Mario can punch a hole through the Earth cleanly.

PiOverlord posted...

Yeah, very fair. Death Battle is cool as I do like the animations; I just find powerscaling discussions in general to be dumb nowadays. When did every character become multiversal?

As with all things it is because the gentrification of the characters through capitalism. It is very hard to make a good story with good characters, but if you can make the same money just giving people the exact same garbage day in and day out and they will never even bat an eye in giving you their money why would anyone care? Anime is an easy one to point to there every season is basically just one third "cute girls doing cute things", one third isekai, one third repeats from last season, and a rounding error of things that are even slightly original.

And the reason that everything became universal is the same reason that every game that lasts for a while has power creep: because you have to always move up in scale in order to make people go "woah" that much harder. If someone does something you can't make something lesser or even the same now as people have already seen that. Originally there was a level of "soft reset" when it came to fandoms due to people aging out of it, but with things being heavily calcified many people will just stick around. Thus creating a scenario where an upwards trend just naturally has to occur in order to excite that crowd.

PiOverlord posted...

I recall Link vs Cloud being full of this (both fights). Examples such as Link dodging a laser beam meaning he has faster than light reaction when I think we all know that's just bologna. Speed seems to be the worst thing in discussion as people will always find something that makes a character end up being faster-than-light despite struggling constantly to find average humans that disappear within a few seconds when faster-than-light should mean you could run all over the place and find said character instantly.

Durability and strength end up pretty bad too for reasons I mentioned in OP.

yeah i've seen this wank for Geralt of Rivia. He dodged lightning this one time and people believe he is a lightning timer now despite uhh a bunch of feats that show he is probably below the speed of sound.

Also the fact that these supposed lightning+ speed characters only fight within a small local area not even bigger than a football field has me think they aren't that fast. OnePunchMAN possible season 4 Spoilers: I think a good example of characters that are truly as fast or faster than light would be the: Garou vs Saitama fight on the moon. Saitama was legit traveling around the entire moon dozens of time throughout the damn fight while the moon was exploding!!! i dont see this with street level characters that are supposedly lightning timers or higher