Board 8 > vtubers

(+) Yeah! (+)

nijisanji havin a normal one over there

something, something, any color and they chose black

This whole situation seriously reads like someone inside Nijisanji is intentionally choosing the worst thing possible to do at any given moment and time and telling everyone "go do that" on purpose.

It's mind blowing.

I've never heard of nijisanji. Context?

As someone who doesn't know anything about this vtuber, what's the drama going on rn?

Already imploding? I heard about a vtuber getting fired like a week ago.

There was a chance things could have slid back into some normalcy with a little more time, and then they stomped all of the toothpaste out of the tube

Dark_Young_Link posted...

As someone who doesn't know anything about this vtuber, what's the drama going on rn?

Nijisanji (second-biggest vtuber company) treats its employees absolutely horribly. Especially the ones outside of Japan. Explaining everything they'd done would honestly take a WHILE, but the most recent one is driving their most popular EN vtuber to a failed suicide attempt, then slandering her when she tried to quit without raising a fuss.

So there's this vtuber agency called Nijisanji, they're based in Japan (and it's still their biggest market) but they have a really successful EN (English) branch as well.

One of their talents is Selen Tatsuki. She's known for being acting in the English vtubing community, collabing both with talents in her agency and outside, and she puts a lot of the money she gets back into creative projects like her music videos for her fans.

Late last year, a big music video that she released got privated by management, apparently because there were permissions that she hadn't gotten yet. Not long after, she put out a tweet that she was in an accident and had to take a break from streaming.

On Feb 5, her contract is terminated. The company made a press release saying that she repeatedly broke company rules and that she received bullying/harrassment from staff members and other talents. This unfortunately, but predictably, led to viewers harrassing and witch hunting the other EN talents.

On Feb 6, she (through another account/persona) made her own statement and said that her 'accident' was actually her trying to off herself due to toxic culture and harrassment. But also that she doesn't want any harassment to anyone. She'll be streaming and making content using this new persona.

Then today, three of the remaining EN talents released a video trying to explain their POV, saying that Selen tended to make stuff without management's approval. And also that she made a lawsuit that has some of the talents' IRL information in it that makes them feel unsafe. And that their CEO will be making a separate statement later.

To this, Selen said that the legal document was not supposed to be shared to other parties, just between the relevvant lawyers.

Phew, that's a long one, but some other probably relevant tidbits:

1. Nijisanji (especially EN) has received criticism for their management for a long time now, with many talents graduating and/or feeling there's preferential treatment
2. Artists have come out saying that Nijisanji EN doesn't pay them for commissioned work, and Selen has to pay out of her own pockets (Selen also says that she's made basically 0 last year, as she puts back the money to fund projects)

Sounds like a toxic company why haven't they been boycotted?

GranzonEx posted...

Sounds like a toxic company why haven't they been boycotted?

Since when have boycott movements actually worked or been effective? Although Nijisanji is taking somewhat of a beating on the English side now.

They're hemorrhaging fans and talent, as I understand it. I don't really keep up with them but the only PR I've heard in months has been atrocious

Raka_Putra posted...

Then today, three of the remaining EN talents released a video trying to explain their POV, saying that Selen tended to make stuff without management's approval. And also that she made a lawsuit that has some of the talents' IRL information in it that makes them feel unsafe. And that their CEO will be making a separate statement later.

I wasn't aware of this bit until this post. Just checked it out and wow what a dumpster fire.

they also coordinated the start time of that stream to counterprogram her first post-Niji gaming stream, so that's, y'know, classy

AriaOfBolo posted...

They're hemorrhaging fans and talent, as I understand it. I don't really keep up with them but the only PR I've heard in months has been atrocious

They'll be fine because most of their revenue is based in Japan, so even if the entire English side goes up in flames, they'll just be less successful than before. Their CEO might have to buy less yachts though. That wasn't a joke.

Yeah its... its a LOT to try and summarize everything they've done, but suffice to say Nijisanji has gone out of their way in handling this matter to live up to every single 'mustache twirling evil corporate overlord' stereotype you can possibly think of.

The most recent thing the topic is referring to is they had 3 of their other talents make a PR statement for them about the situation. Which, in and of itself is a big 'ole red flag (why are you involving 3 other talents in this shit storm instead of handling it yourself with your PR and legal teams?) but they also self-implicated that they shared confidential legal documents with other 3rd parties during it.

And I don't even know what the point of the video was! It didn't even really make Selen/Doki look bad. Oh no, she recorded a coworker without their knowledge to cover her own ass, what a horrible person! That's the best they could come up with??? Really??

A nifty Twitter thread summarizing what the talents say in the latest video:
https://vxtwitter.com/maegixx/status/1757213366387696016?t=4Da1SV-RUVYrLt2dQyNEFg&s=19

Also yes their stock prices have been in freefall for the past week because of this. They've lost 10% market share last I heard.

All of their talents lost thousands of subs.

(but yes this is a drop in the bucket to them because they're a $2 billion+ Japanese company that doesn't really care about outside of Japan)

Man I keep trying to write a post trying to provide context but I don't even know where to start. Even if Nijisanji is in the right regarding the original disputes (which I seriously doubt) it is just mind-boggling how much they've needlessly made things worse from a PR standpoint.

I see Raka did it while I was typing up and deleting a post for the 5th time so thank you.

What's truly baffling is how much of what is now known is due to the company's own PR statements. Like nobody ever had to know that Selen was claiming there was harassment from other talents but now every single one of them has an extra helping of shit to deal with even if they were completely uninvolved.

And then now when I finally felt people might actually be moving on they decide to drop this statement and reignite the metaphorical fire.

pyresword posted...

I see Raka did it while I was typing up and deleting a post for the 5th time so thank you.

Yeah I did the same thing lol

Even Raka's post doesn't really convey the full story of how monumentally they've bungled things. This is truly one of those "will be taught in law school as an example of what not to do" situations.

tcaz2 posted...

Yeah I did the same thing lol

Even Raka's post doesn't really convey the full story of how monumentally they've bungled things. This is truly one of those "will be taught in law school as an example of what not to do" situations.

Yeah. To someone who hasn't followed the news, some of the posts here may seem hyperbolic. It's really not. We're seeing cartoon level villainy combined with staggering incompetence in real time.

Like just as an example to the people that don't really follow the situation, they released a 2 line statement to their shareholders that only said this:

https://i.imgur.com/Q2OI8nc.png

That's it. They've never released a statement like that on a termination before. This is after someone tried to *kill herself* and they *admitted there was internal bullying* going on.

To call it tone deaf is possibly the understatement of the decade.

Raka_Putra posted...

Late last year, a big music video that she released got privated by management, apparently because there were permissions that she hadn't gotten yet. Not long after, she put out a tweet that she was in an accident and had to take a break from streaming.

Another important detail: the rights holder came out to say she did get permissions for that video. Nijisanji's reasons for privating the video remain unknown (though possibly it's just harassment).

What exactly does a "vtuber agency" do, though?

What's most baffling to me is they had all the opportunity to just deal discreetly with whatever legal lawsuit is going on behind the screen, but they decided to make it public, using the talents nonetheless. It's very irresponsible.

I was listening to selen's stream while multitasking and got so confused because I didn't know the elira statement was going on at the same time. Looking around afterwards was like... damn, I just missed a huge fire all around me because I had my airpods in

And yeah, lilypichu was the rights holder and was totally cool with selen

azuarc posted...

What exactly does a "vtuber agency" do, though?

A good one provides a strong brand with other popular vtubers to interact with, financial compensation, sponsorship deals with other companies, and events like live shows. Hololive is actually an example of a vtuber studio that is extremely well-run and seemingly beloved by its employees.

Then there's Nijisanji.

azuarc posted...

What exactly does a "vtuber agency" do, though?

Depends on the agency, but typically they provide management (e.g. scheduling, dealing with third parties), legal support, and promotion for the vtuber talents. Often also technical support (streaming equipment), especially with bigger agencies.

azuarc posted...

What exactly does a "vtuber agency" do, though?

The same thing any kind of talent agency does. You get their established brand attached to you, which gives you a meteoric rise in popularity (even the least popular corporate vtubers tend to be very successful vs struggling to make a name for yourself for years that a lot of indies do- as a quick numbers example, the latest Hololive English wave, Advent, had their debuts watched by several tens of thousands of people and had several hundred thousand subs within a week). Furthermore, they line up brand deals and opportunities for you to promote yourself (convention appearances, songs, etc) as well as dealing with any legal issues that arise on your behalf (though lol in this particular case, that is how it is suppose to work).

KamikazePotato posted...

Since when have boycott movements actually worked or been effective? Although Nijisanji is taking somewhat of a beating on the English side now.

I think it can work for things like vtubers which are a very close knit community. Getting the word out is easier than like boycotting Apple. Get the EN vtubers to terminate their contracts and go back to their old personas/make new ones and migrate fans. Can't really help on the Japanese side though.

The Japanese side especially sucks because a lot of people in Japan are very pro-corporations due to their culture. There was a lot of Japanese Niji fans weighing in on twitter etc saying they don't understand what English fans problem is about the incident and that "of course if you don't comply you will get terminated, even a child knows that" and such.

It's worth noting that Nijisanji vtubers get a cut of 2% of their merch sales. Selen admitted that her income was net negative last year.

tcaz2 posted...

The same thing any kind of talent agency does. You get their established brand attached to you, which gives you a meteoric rise in popularity (even the least popular corporate vtubers tend to be very successful vs struggling to make a name for yourself for years that a lot of indies do- as a quick numbers example, the latest Hololive English wave, Advent, had their debuts watched by several tens of thousands of people and had several hundred thousand subs within a week). Furthermore, they line up brand deals and opportunities for you to promote yourself (convention appearances, songs, etc) as well as dealing with any legal issues that arise on your behalf (though lol in this particular case, that is how it is suppose to work).

I've never heard of a corporate vtuber, nor can I imagine why anyone would care about one. Sounds like a freaking boy band, but without the music.

I'm clearly out of my league in this thread.

Usually they're more like a streamer like Pewdiepie or Markiplier. Watching another person playing or reacting to something can be fun, especially if they have an interesting personality/commentary.

azuarc posted...

I've never heard of a corporate vtuber, nor can I imagine why anyone would care about one. Sounds like a freaking boy band, but without the music.

You've never heard of Hololive? That's... surprising.

Worth mentioning something like 5 EN streamers have left the company or been fired in the past ~6 months and that some merch companies (I don't know if they are big or small but would guess small) have announced that they will no longer sell NijisanjiEN merchandise

Oh also I forgot to mention that multiple third-party merchandise companies have said they will no longer be making/carrying Nijisanji products due to this.

Being part of a larger corporations gets you into a lot of doors. There are Hololive vtubers as units in Azur Lane and Disgaea 6, they do meet and greets digitally at anime conventions, etc

There are super successful indies but they're rarer or they've previously been corporate talents

Well its just literally the same thing as any other brand. The more well known the brand is, the more popular. Like if someone gets hired by Nintendo to make a video game vs trying to make it on their own.

There is a certain expectation of quality that comes with the brand.

Having an agency do your promotions and provide you with the vtuber avatars (which cost thousands) and also hook you up with streaming gear are huge advantages.

MacArrowny posted...

You've never heard of Hololive? That's... surprising.

Why would I? I'm a gamer. The only vtubers I know of are people who play games I'm interested in.

But I'll bow out here so I stop derailing the topic.

azuarc posted...

Why would I? I'm a gamer. The only vtubers I know of are people who play games I'm interested in.

But I'll bow out here so I stop derailing the topic.

Just because people on B8 talk about them a fair amount.

KamikazePotato posted...

It's worth noting that Nijisanji vtubers get a cut of 2% of their merch sales. Selen admitted that her income was net negative last year.

Geez those are terrible terms. But I guess it's something to be expected when the company fronted everything. Still feels massively off.

Most of the corporate Vtubers still play plenty of video games as well

Some (like Hololive) also have them perform as musical idols and things like that, but they still primarily stream games

Also another hilarious thing from the "PR" video is Elira explicitly stated that her, Millie, and Enna were the ones doing the harassment. No one had any knowledge of this beyond speculation until they exposed that they read the private legal documents that they weren't supposed to read and that they were named in it. And then tried to accuse Selen of doxxing them because their real names were used...in a legal document.

KommunistKoala posted...

Also another hilarious thing from the "PR" video is Elira explicitly stated that her, Millie, and Enna were the ones doing the harassment. No one had any knowledge of this beyond speculation until they exposed that they read the private legal documents that they weren't supposed to read and that they were named in it. And then tried to accuse Selen of doxxing them because their real names were used...in a legal document.

How shitty are the legal documents handled where any employee can just read it? Like I can't imagine how that's even possible. They must have been shared by upper management.

GranzonEx posted...

Geez those are terrible terms. But I guess it's something to be expected when the company fronted everything. Still feels massively off.

It feels massively off because other agencies give significantly better terms, lol. Notably, the CEO of Hololive apparently makes less money than the company's top earning vtubers.

They would have to share it in order to use Elira and pals as a shield lol. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't legally binding like an NDA is, but the ones who've just proven they're willing to spread it is Nijisanji, while accusing Selen of possibly wanting to do the same. It's just such a bad look

agesboy posted...

They would have to share it in order to use Elira and pals as a shield lol. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't legally binding like an NDA is, but the ones who've just proven they're willing to spread it is Nijisanji, while accusing Selen of possibly wanting to do the same. It's just such a bad look

https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1757218064058155099

The fact that they tweeted from her account "Hey guys im in the hospital" back in December was already a HUGELY sus moment. I feel like they have a severe disconnect on how seriously the west views medical confidentiality