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Tyranthraxus 02/27/24 8:36:12 PM #51: |
Hinakuluiau posted...
we don't need to make up stuff like claiming she only made Dumbledore gay to be seen as progressive That's the thing, I don't really believe that's "made up" She's long regretted not making HP more diverse and those regrets are probably sincere. Dumbledore being gay was an easy target because 1. It was already a fan theory and 2. Changes literally nothing about the story and 3. Doesn't contradict anything else she's said. If that's all that happened it might have been arguable that she intended it but didn't think it was appropriate for a childrens' novel. She lost the benefit of the doubt when she went on a Twitter meltdown about how she "never said Hermione was white" and someone in response posted a photo of the page where it said she had pale skin. Her progressive facade has since completely fallen apart. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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thronedfire2 02/27/24 8:37:23 PM #52: |
KitKats posted...
Heres a good place for you to start Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which facts in the world of a fictional work that have been established through the narrative itself are adjusted, ignored, supplemented, or contradicted by a subsequently published work that recontextualizes or breaks continuity with the former.[2] can you point out which facts in the fictional world of Harry Potter were established in Book 1-7 with regards to Dumbledore's sexuality? --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KitKats 02/27/24 8:39:25 PM #53: |
thronedfire2 posted...
can you point out which facts in the fictional world of Harry Potter were established in Book 1-7 with regards to Dumbledore's sexuality?Dumbedlore exists as a character, who has new information provided by the author that adjusts and supplements the story, and recontextualizes the character and his story in previous works. and also To change or clarify how the prior work should be interpreted.^ as a motivation in the wiki So now the character isnt just Dumbledore the wizard, hes Dumbledore the gay wizard. --- her/she ... Copied to Clipboard!
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thronedfire2 02/27/24 8:41:44 PM #54: |
KitKats posted...
Dumbedlore exists as a character, who has new information provided by the author that adjusts and supplements the story, and recontextualizes the character and his story in previous works. so you just assumed he was a straight man with zero reference to the subject at all, in the entire book series? --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 02/27/24 8:42:59 PM #55: |
thronedfire2 posted...
so you just assumed he was a straight man with zero reference to the subject at all, in the entire book series? I guess that depends on if he would consider explicitly stating Dumbledore was heterosexual to also be a retcon --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KitKats 02/27/24 8:43:14 PM #56: |
thronedfire2 posted...
so you just assumed he was a straight man with zero reference to the subject at all, in the entire book series?His sexuality was open to interpretation. --- her/she ... Copied to Clipboard!
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bfslick50 02/27/24 8:43:43 PM #57: |
KitKats posted...
Dumbedlore exists as a character, who has new information provided by the author that adjusts and supplements the story, and recontextualizes the character and his story in previous works. Youre defining learning any new background info as a retcon. That definitely makes Snape reveals to be retcons as well. Making retcon that inclusive of a definition makes it a useless term. --- "Something's wrong! Murder isn't working and that's all we're good at." ~Futurama ... Copied to Clipboard!
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thronedfire2 02/27/24 8:44:23 PM #58: |
KitKats posted...
His sexuality was open to interpretation. because it was never mentioned at all. --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... ... Copied to Clipboard!
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bfslick50 02/27/24 8:44:41 PM #59: |
KitKats posted...
His sexuality was open to interpretation. So was Snapes before we knew of his Lily obsession. --- "Something's wrong! Murder isn't working and that's all we're good at." ~Futurama ... Copied to Clipboard!
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thronedfire2 02/27/24 8:45:35 PM #60: |
bfslick50 posted...
So was Snapes before we knew of his Lily obsession. that doesn't even confirm his sexuality, just his ..love/obsession --- I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen... ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Giblet_Enjoyer 02/27/24 8:45:58 PM #61: |
I don't even get why dumbledore's sexuality (or what JK says it is) needs to even register in anyone's brain. You can go the whole story believing he only fucks bowls of jell-o and it makes no difference to the story
--- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DrizztLink 02/27/24 8:46:13 PM #62: |
bfslick50 posted...
So was Snapes before we knew of his Lily obsession.I think the main difference there is whether it happened in story or not. Snape's thing has buildup and payoff throughout the series, but this is completely disconnected from the story and mentioned several years after the fact --- He/Him http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/M8h2ATe.png https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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bfslick50 02/27/24 8:46:44 PM #63: |
thronedfire2 posted...
that doesn't even confirm his sexuality, just his ..love/obsession We learned Snape loved a girl and Dumbledore a man. Had Rowling limited her answer to he loved Grindlewald then it wouldnt be a retcon? --- "Something's wrong! Murder isn't working and that's all we're good at." ~Futurama ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KitKats 02/27/24 8:47:07 PM #64: |
thronedfire2 posted...
because it was never mentioned at all.And mentioning it after the fact recontextualizes the character and his story, aka retroactive continuity. --- her/she ... Copied to Clipboard!
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pegusus123456 02/27/24 8:48:10 PM #65: |
KitKats posted...
Heres a good place for you to startLiterally every example in that article is about altering or ignoring something in a previous work. --- https://i.imgur.com/Er6TT.gif https://i.imgur.com/Er6TT.gif https://i.imgur.com/Er6TT.gif So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KitKats 02/27/24 8:49:15 PM #66: |
pegusus123456 posted...
Literally every example in that article is about altering or ignoring something in a previous work.And Dumbledore was altered, what was open for interpretation is no longer, if you accept Rowlings ramblings as canon. --- her/she ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KajeI 02/27/24 8:50:06 PM #67: |
KitKats posted...
And Dumbledore was altered, what was open for interpretation is no longer, if you accept Rowlings ramblings as canon.This is fucking embarrassing and you should really stop now while you're still above ground. --- Look, I can name a few instances in MY life where I tried to reach mutual understanding and i can TELL you, always faster and easier to just kill em. Just is! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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bfslick50 02/27/24 8:50:42 PM #68: |
DrizztLink posted...
I think the main difference there is whether it happened in story or not. Yeah that reveal definitely recontextualizes Snapes past actions in previous stories. Whereas the Dumbledore reveal feels unrelated so it doesnt change the interpretation of a single scene. It not being in the story doesnt make it a retcon but does make it an author endorsed fan theory. --- "Something's wrong! Murder isn't working and that's all we're good at." ~Futurama ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KitKats 02/27/24 8:50:52 PM #69: |
KajeI posted...
This is fucking embarrassing and you should really stop now while you're still above ground. I never said it was a good retcon, lol. --- her/she ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChocoboMogALT 02/27/24 9:00:32 PM #70: |
What's the book that describes young Albus and Grindelwald? That makes it pretty clear what his sexuality is without stating it. And the one before does a good job hinting at it.
--- "We live in a country Hasire.." ~ yosouf06 REVOLVER STAKE! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/ChocoboMog123/AltEisenRChocoboMog.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DrizztLink 02/27/24 9:01:00 PM #71: |
ChocoboMogALT posted...
What's the book that describes young Albus and Grindelwald? That makes it pretty clear what his sexuality is without stating it. And the one before does a good job hinting at it.6? --- He/Him http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/M8h2ATe.png https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Rotterdammerung 02/27/24 9:02:57 PM #72: |
pnut027 posted...
Are you gay if youre a trans man who likes cis men?If you are a man who exclusively likes other men, youre gay, yes. --- Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things. GNU STP They/them ... Copied to Clipboard!
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KitKats 02/27/24 9:12:39 PM #73: |
Glad to see we have a few eager beavers ready for some literary learning!
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retcon Reframing or adding to past events to serve a current plot need. Take the page image: a pre-existing space elevator is in the city, but one did not appear to exist earlier in the work despite the fact that a building reaching up into space would be plain to see in any wide shot. However the current story requires a space elevator, so it's been added and treated as if it's always been there. --- her/she ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ModernPost 02/27/24 9:13:16 PM #74: |
Hinakuluiau posted...
Harry also doesn't shit in the books but we can assume he does. Like I said, Dumbledore being gay was something many readers had already theorized before she confirmed it.I'm not making anything up. There's nothing in the text that says Dumbledore is gay. I don't know why she claimed he was gay after she was finished writing the series. She created the series, presumably she had ample opportunity to include that aspect of his character, but she decided not to. Why do you think that is? --- The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth, it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true. Ecclesiastes FunWithAFryPan ... Copied to Clipboard!
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bfslick50 02/27/24 9:15:12 PM #75: |
KitKats posted...
Glad to see we have a few eager beavers ready for some literary learning! You made author intent the distinction but dont trust the authors word on if it was planned. How it affects the story is a more practical definition. --- "Something's wrong! Murder isn't working and that's all we're good at." ~Futurama ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Agonized_rufous 02/27/24 9:16:54 PM #76: |
I knew he was good with a wand
--- "All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Philip027 02/27/24 9:53:46 PM #77: |
I wouldn't really think of this as a retcon. It's not like his sexuality was ever made a plot point in the books; it would only come off as a "retcon" to a reader having assumed he was straight or "asexual" or whatever else (despite the books never saying anything one way or the other). This would be like suggesting it would be a "retcon" for a Disney character to be revealed to be very much heterosexual, just because the movie they were featured in never indicated they had any sexual inclinations whatsoever. I wouldn't usually consider something a retcon unless it's some new piece of information that completely flies in the face of previously established information. Key word being established, not just inferred. Here's something to think about: would anyone be calling this a retcon if JKR revealed that Dumbledore was straight instead? Somehow, I doubt it. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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AgentCoulson 02/27/24 9:54:03 PM #78: |
What was the point of posting a nearly 15 year old article? Unless... Holy shit, I'm 14 years in the past. Guys. Listen to me. The future is fucked.
--- I haven't set a signature for the message boards yet ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Fenrir_Howls 02/27/24 10:08:41 PM #79: |
pegusus123456 posted...
It also wasn't really this. Dumbledore being gay didn't have anything to do with the story and she just answered when someone directly asked if he'd ever been in love with someone. This was back in the early 2000s when a gay character in a children's story was insanely progressive and more likely to hurt sales than help them. Eh? It feels like whenever this comes up theres a degree of exaggeration, particularly within the scope of the Harry Potter fandom where the fandom was already relatively fine with it. Hell, WolfStar was a pretty common head canon to the point where Thewlis was told to portray Lupin as gay. Whats more theres a difference between subtext and actually putting it down in text. --- Loki's Good Boy ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Kradek 02/27/24 10:13:51 PM #80: |
Philip027 posted...
Here's something to think about: would anyone be calling this a retcon if JKR revealed that Dumbledore was straight instead? Somehow, I doubt it. Probably because everybody in that series with expressed sexuality was straight so it wouldn't mean anything substantial. Him being gay does add different context to like the Grindelwald stuff, which I saw as more brothers than lovers, it also makes him and Grindelwald the only ones in the series. In reality Rowling is a straight woman and I think she just wrote all her characters to be straight from her own perspecitve. After the series became popular fans had created various theories and seeing how popular her series was with the LGB community she decided to solidify those fans and hopefully gain more by throwing them a bone. Especially considering how inauthentic of a person she's shown herself to be in recent years she's definitely cynical enough to do something like that because it does her no harm and possibly brings in more revenue. --- My metal band, Ivory King, has 2 songs out now - allmylinks.com/ivorykingtx (all of our links there so you can choose which one you'd prefer to use) ... Copied to Clipboard!
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