Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Topic 5: Better to have Loved and Died

(+) Yeah! (+)

UltimaterializerX posted...

Just flip me. Its fine. Corrik is correct that scum will couple today and town only loses a vanilla. And you guys get your token remove Ulti out of the way on the best terms youll ever have them on.

Just PLEASE listen to me. Kill Lea tomorrow, scan Lopen/Chris/Sultan. That wins the game.

Scan is done by rooms I bet and likely just a 1 shot. It's why the cop not claiming today is boneheaded.

Meh, I can see the logic. But if the Cop is feeling gutsy, I think they can wait until D3 to claim. I'm assuming Peaf was scum's weak power role scanner, so the only way Cop dies tonight is if they out themselves or scum gets lucky. I don't think there's a rush for Cop to claim today. It's not a bad idea, but we could get some major gains off of playing a bit riskier.

There can't be protection that blocks a shot. Just so we are aware of that. The numbers can't go even.

So we know there isn't a doctor. A role blocker can't exist if a town redirection role exists. Yadda yadda.

Corrik7 posted...

There can't be protection that blocks a shot. Just so we are aware of that. The numbers can't go even.

Only protection probably already flipped unless a backup? But idk how likely

The cop being able to mercilessly scan all game is unlikely and thus is a 1 shot room mechanic. Godfather probably absolutely exists as well.

Corrik7 posted...

The cop being able to mercilessly scan all game is unlikely and thus is a 1 shot room mechanic. Godfather probably absolutely exists as well.

Lea also did also claim Miller I think it's legit claim?

There can't be a vig a sk or an extra kill. Like yinz are overthinking this hard. You also can't get to the final 5 or scum wins if they can still pair. So theoretically mylo is earlier. At 7 if scum both pair town. They both pair at 5 and the game is over.

Corrik7 posted...

The cop being able to mercilessly scan all game is unlikely and thus is a 1 shot room mechanic. Godfather probably absolutely exists as well.

Could be a every other night mechanic so you only get 2 results every 2 night or something I don't think that is impossible either

It's why cop info claimed now is important. We can't let the game go on long or we are in trouble if 2 scum still exist.

There is definitely a way to force an unpair or force a pair on someone.

Corrik7 posted...

It's why cop info claimed now is important. We can't let the game go on long or we are in trouble if 2 scum still exist.

Only issue would be if the every other night starts to night but I do get your thought if it was last night but idk that alot of set up meta to get into.

I'm assuming no role blocker exists and town has a redirector as protection. Just FYI.

I feel like Corrik has a lot more fun playing "find the setup" than "find the scum"

Lopen posted...

I feel like Corrik has a lot more fun playing "find the setup" than "find the scum"

It's important to know the game you are playing to play it right. It's why Percival or whatever should always immediately claim in that one game we played once. If you don't know how to play chess, how do you expect to achieve checkmate

Lopen posted...

I feel like Corrik has a lot more fun playing "find the setup" than "find the scum"

New game idea. 3rd party who's role is to guess the set up if they get it they win lol

Lopen posted...

I feel like Corrik has a lot more fun playing "find the setup" than "find the scum"

He does this every game, I feel :P

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

New game idea. 3rd party who's role is to guess the set up if they get it they win lol

That's actually a really neat 3rd party wincon

Lopen posted...

That's actually a really neat 3rd party wincon

Don't tease me with a day 1 victory.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

New game idea. 3rd party who's role is to guess the set up if they get it they win lol

Hey, my first game here was a role that won if I guessed the entire scum team. And I almost had it if I didn't misunderstand the role by not realizing I had to exclusively name living scum members lol

Kirby321 posted...

He does this every game, I feel :P

More often as town imo

Less easy to feign solving the setup if you know scumteam composition

The point is that scum is super powerful with 2 left. It's when they are down to 1 they are in trouble.

So you're still set on Ulti being scum, Lopen?

So we need the townclears now to try and force scum into a corner. Hence. Cop claim.

Cop probably shouldn't claim with BG dead.

Kirby321 posted...

So you're still set on Ulti being scum, Lopen?

Only thing I'm unsure of is if I'm more sure you or him are scum.

red13n posted...

Cop probably shouldn't claim with BG dead.

Clears or red check on a room is more important than the cop staying in the game.

I think you're overlooking how easy it will be for us to look back at day 1/2/3/etc and find who has paired with each other.

I liked your point about 7 being mylo if scum is allowed to reach 5 without pairing each other, but we could use the entire record of pairing to try and navigate that spot and force scum to pair on 7 if they want to survive, then on 5 it's just a matter of figuring out which of the pairs from 7 was scum/scum.

.

But you're also assuming that peaf's allies DIDN'T pair on day 1. It's possible they did and their "safety" today is not absolute. Or it's possible that they didn't pair on day 1 but they CAN'T pair today based upon how the conversations have proceeded without looking bad for it.

Thinking I'm more sure you are

Ulti intentionally lining up a bunch of scum tells so he can claim victory over my Ultiwhispering cred I can vaguely see as possible

Peaf going full bonkers when paired with town to save town is harder to believe

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I think you're overlooking how easy it will be for us to look back at day 1/2/3/etc and find who has paired with each other.

I liked your point about 7 being mylo if scum is allowed to reach 5 without pairing each other, but we could use the entire record of pairing to try and navigate that spot and force scum to pair on 7 if they want to survive, then on 5 it's just a matter of figuring out which of the pairs from 7 was scum/scum.

.

But you're also assuming that peaf's allies DIDN'T pair on day 1. It's possible they did and their "safety" today is not absolute. Or it's possible that they didn't pair on day 1 but they CAN'T pair today based upon how the conversations have proceeded without looking bad for it.

It's going to be ridiculously hard to piece together the pairings to find scum because day 1 was likely a crap shoot of pairings as long 2 scum remain. And today is almost just as blind. Yay we know death is town. The unpaired was scum and lopen is almost certainly town and whoever paired the last person and not peaf. The only disaster that can occur is the cop getting shot without revealing info. It's almost backbreaking to town if it happens. You can tighten the noose or you can disasterously play with fire and potentially burn the town down.

It's why I wasn't so keen to just randomly pair day 1 and tried to create pressure by refusing pairings. You shouldn't want early pairings or random pairing like reds mass offers. It only helps scum.

Corrik7 posted...

It's going to be ridiculously hard to piece together the pairings to find scum because day 1 was likely a crap shoot of pairings as long 2 scum remain. And today is almost just as blind. Yay we know death is town. The unpaired was scum and lopen is almost certainly town and whoever paired the last person and not peaf. The only disaster that can occur is the cop getting shot without revealing info. It's almost backbreaking to town if it happens. You can tighten the noose or you can disasterously play with fire and potentially burn the town down.

Hypothetically what if the cop scanned Chris/Death and saw "no scum in Room 3" (or whatever it would say)

Would you still want them to come forward for only 1 clear? Even knowing the BG is dead and their life is probably forfeit tonight?

I don't consider that scenario to be very likely since most people were willing to keep Chris in POE, but just saying it might not be as clear cut as you think. Or cop might not be a full room scanner in the way you are assuming. It's worth considering as a possibility after seeing Peaf's role, but you seem really tunneled on "this is how it MUST work" and you're willing to sacrifice an unclaimed cop for potentially marginal gains.

Cop can share scan results with their date it's pretty low risk to not claim atm

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Hypothetically what if the cop scanned Chris/Death and saw "no scum in Room 3" (or whatever it would say)

Would you still want them to come forward for only 1 clear? Even knowing the BG is dead and their life is probably forfeit tonight?

I don't consider that scenario to be very likely since most people were willing to keep Chris in POE, but just saying it might not be as clear cut as you think. Or cop might not be a full room scanner in the way you are assuming. It's worth considering as a possibility after seeing Peaf's role, but you seem really tunneled on "this is how it MUST work" and you're willing to sacrifice an unclaimed cop for potentially marginal gains.

Would you rather know Chris has to be godfather or town or not know at all if the cop dies?

But corrik what if he tells the night chat person it incase he dies! What if he is paired with scum then who lies about the result!

Like understand the game you are playing here.

Lopen posted...

Cop can share scan results with their date it's pretty low risk to not claim atm

If someone is doing this they should wait until the final 2 hours after actions lock so they can't be scum killed and have the result lied about.

With only 2 scum left and some vague attention to likely scum its pretty safe to tell your date scans

Corrik7 posted...

It's why I wasn't so keen to just randomly pair day 1 and tried to create pressure by refusing pairings. You shouldn't want early pairings or random pairing like reds mass offers. It only helps scum.

I won't say you're wrong, but quite frankly this is the most you've talked this entire game. There is no pressure in refusing pairings. Evidently, the only way to force pressure is by making players feel like they're about to die, and that necessitates pairing off.

Lopen posted...

With only 2 scum left and some vague attention to likely scum its pretty safe to tell your date scans

Town about to be burnt to a crisp over hero play. Tsk tsk.

Kirby321 posted...

I won't say you're wrong, but quite frankly this is the most you've talked this entire game. There is no pressure in refusing pairings. Evidently, the only way to force pressure is by making players feel like they're about to die, and that necessitates pairing off.

Cuz I was busy. I told yinz, I have a lot of sports stuff going on. It has zero bearing on alignment.

Anyways i'm gonna take the lull in pairing to put red back into the pool where he belongs.

##Breakup

##Date: Lopen

I'd prefer to pair with you and let Corrik/Mzero/Isquen/Red/Ulti figure it out. Ulti can't date red so someone else would have to take red mass invitation.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

If someone is doing this they should wait until the final 2 hours after actions lock so they can't be scum killed and have the result lied about.

So what benefit is waiting til then to do it than just doing it now and maybe helping get scum today? If there is a red check on a room someone sacrifices to kill the entire room plus another. If someone saves someone in that room, we assume last scum.

If we have green checks, we clear barring a godfather hit 3 people from today to consider.

I'm here only to bring Ultis death at this point

And isn't that still likely? It would take one of the other 3 to specifically save Ulti at this point which is telling enough by itself.

UltimaterializerX posted...

For those playing the home game, you are a bad player if you tunnel the same people every game and I'm about to flip exactly what I've said. If Lopen is town, I get to hold it over his head for life. This play is also why Han, FD, and ctes no longer have any credibility when I'm town and they try to kill me anyway.

FD was the only one in that group smart enough to learn his lesson afterwards.

If you want this argument to be persuasive, you have to avoid saying it when you're scum, like you did last game.

UltimaterializerX posted...

FD was the only one in that group smart enough to learn his lesson afterwards.

You paying me a compliment that i'm not even certain is accurate is absolutely in your scum range >_>

Enchantress posted...

If you want this argument to be persuasive, you have to avoid saying it when you're scum, like you did last game.

And yeah, he said something very similarly to me last game, and the only reason I eased off of him (after his day 1 lying about his own role) was because he got inno scanned several times over. It's like he's making an effort to sound exactly like last game.