Current Events > Do you believe in a god/gods/other spiritual beings?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sheiky-Baby posted...

Yes I do. The idea that our planet was just created out of luck, and time, where we are given life, the environment to thrive, the perfect planet to create a living place, animals to eat and survive, the brain to think and evolve, etc is difficult for me to believe, unless it was all devised by a higher being. I will say this individual, or individuals are probably not called God though, nor have a sex, or even skin color.

Or it was a statistically good chance we all got lucky.

I wish I did.

ssjevot posted...

Yeah and your argument is as valid as the Big Foot exists guys. That's his point. Though I guess at least they have some fake videos and foot prints. You guys should get on that.

is there any books that you know of where big foot or a spaghetti monster came out and claimed some divine origin?

falayyou01 posted...

Depending on your starting position, I.e., god exists or god doesnt exist, your whole set of assumptions changes. Just as you argue its incumbent on me as a believer to provide evidence of Gods existence, Id posit that its you who should provide me with proof of God not existing. In my view, the universes very existence and the testimony of prophets throughout history, is evidence of God existing. How about you provide me with proof that God doesnt exist?

Oh, so you don't understand the burden of proof. I should have pulled out the bingo board for how many tropes you're speedrunning.

You weren't born believing in god, you had to be taught. The default position of everyone is to not believe in any god or religion. In science, this would be the null hypothesis. If you want to argue something different from that, you would need to back that up. For an atheist example, if you wanted to argue that there are definitively no gods, that would need to be supported rather than just assumed. This is a different position to merely lacking a belief in any gods.

I can't prove there are no gods, but that is not my claim. I don't believe your claim that there are gods because you haven't provided any good evidence for one.

I asked earlier, why are you so sure your religion is the correct one out of the thousands from across human history?

Sheiky-Baby posted...

Yes I do. The idea that our planet was just created out of luck, and time, where we are given life, the environment to thrive, the perfect planet to create a living place, animals to eat and survive, the brain to think and evolve, etc is difficult for me to believe, unless it was all devised by a higher being. I will say this individual, or individuals are probably not called God though, nor have a sex, or even skin color.

This is a backwards way of thinking about it. The way life evolved on Earth is in respond to the conditions present on Earth. That's why so many lifeforms live in so many different environments. The environments weren't designed for them, they evolved to live in them (we even have discovered weird extremophiles now that can live in volcanos, ice, nuclear waste, even without any sunlight at the bottom of the ocean off of thermal vents). Life is a lot more adaptable than you realize and the Earth has a laundry list of characteristics that are not ideal for life.

falayyou01 posted...

is there any books that you know of where big foot or a spaghetti monster came out and claimed some divine origin?

If I write one right now will you believe it? Is that all you need? A book to exist? Man you should hit up Scientology, that one was designed by a science fiction author. Lot of books.

Sheiky-Baby posted...

Yes I do. The idea that our planet was just created out of luck, and time, where we are given life, the environment to thrive, the perfect planet to create a living place, animals to eat and survive, the brain to think and evolve, etc is difficult for me to believe, unless it was all devised by a higher being. I will say this individual, or individuals are probably not called God though, nor have a sex, or even skin color.

The problem with the fine tuning argument is that the universe isn't really that well tuned for us. Over 2/3 of our home planet is covered in water, yet we can't even breathe there. Of the land, a third is taken up by deserts, which are hostile to human life. The second we leave Earth, we literally can't breathe, we get cooked by solar radiation and we can't survive on any other planet in our solar system.

In what way are things fine tuned for us?

ssjevot posted...

If I write one right now will you believe it? Is that all you need? A book to exist? Man you should hit up Scientology, that one was designed by a science fiction author. Lot of books.

Not just any book. I am a Muslim and I believe in the Quran. Skip to minute 20:25 of this video if youre so inclined to learn more.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CyXdIF4BXok&t=914s&pp=ygUgRXZpZGVuY2Ugb2YgcXVyYW4gbXVzbGltIGxhbnRlcm4%3D

falayyou01 posted...

Not just any book. I am a Muslim and I believe in the Quran

Aight great. Why is your religion the right one?

reincarnator07 posted...

Aight great. Why is your religion the right one?

Watch the video and skip to 20:25, he explains it better than I can. There are countless other passages in the Quran that reference the planets moving in an orbit, the formation of the embryo and other scientific topics across various disciplines (water being the foundation of matter) that are ahead of their time. I would invite you to read the Quran for yourself if youre so inclined to learn more. Thank you for the fruitful discussion.

I believe that there are entities that exist in four (or more) spatial dimensions. Depending on your definition of spiritual, that may fit the bill. I also believe that there are some which claimed to be gods or similar when they interacted with humans.

Yes, I believe in God. Thanks for asking.

Religion is 100% cope for "I don't want my death to mean I'm actually dead"

God, ez nope

Spiritual beings outside of religion......ehhhh maybe

No.

I leave open the possibility of such existences but in them I do not believe.

Just really powerful aliens

I don't get how anyone can look at the myriad of different beliefs and religions that have existed over thousands of years and think they're anything more than our silly monkey brains being dumb. If what you believe in is the truth, why did it take an almighty being two or three or a dozen iterations to get it right?

falayyou01 posted...

Watch the video and skip to 20:25, he explains it better than I can. There are countless other passages in the Quran that reference the planets moving in an orbit, the formation of the embryo and other scientific topics across various disciplines (water being the foundation of matter) that are ahead of their time. I would invite you to read the Quran for yourself if youre so inclined to learn more. Thank you for the fruitful discussion.

I wanna hear your words though, not someone else. If all you have is a 40 min video from someone else, I'd question whether your beliefs are your own or those of someone else.

That said, we knew the planets moved differently to the stars since ancient times. Water isn't the foundation of matter at all, water is matter. I won't ignore the contributions that Islam has given to the world, but other religions have done the same. There's a shit ton of Christian scientists throughout history. I'm sure other religions have also made great contributions to science, but I'm less familiar with them. It doesn't really mean anything for whether gods exist, that's a separate argument altogether. Some of them have managed to disprove specific claims from various religions though.

Dark_Arbron posted...

The number one factor that determines your religion is geography.

And it's literally biblical levels of arrogance to assume "yeah, lots of religions have existed, some even predating mine, but mine's the right one dammit!"

Wouldn't it also be arrogance to say "lots of religions have existed, many predating mime and some of the smartest men who ever lived were religious but they were all wrong and im smarter?"

Also to folks who say "I decide my own morality and live by what i believe is right"

A serial killer, a dictator and a terrorist is also deciding his own morality and living by what he thinks is right. Sentiment like that places all of these as having equal validity on an objective scale.

Toonstrack posted...

Also to folks who say "I decide my own morality and live by what i believe is right"

A serial killer, a dictator and a terrorist is also deciding his own morality and living by what he thinks is right. Sentiment like that places all of these as having equal validity on an objective scale.

No, it certainly does not

reincarnator07 posted...

I wanna hear your words though, not someone else. If all you have is a 40 min video from someone else, I'd question whether your beliefs are your own or those of someone else.

That said, we knew the planets moved differently to the stars since ancient times. Water isn't the foundation of matter at all, water is matter. I won't ignore the contributions that Islam has given to the world, but other religions have done the same. There's a shit ton of Christian scientists throughout history. I'm sure other religions have also made great contributions to science, but I'm less familiar with them. It doesn't really mean anything for whether gods exist, that's a separate argument altogether. Some of them have managed to disprove specific claims from various religions though.

I cant speak for whats been disproven from other religions. But I dont really know of people that have successfully debunked claims made in the Quran convincingly. Again I would invite you to read it and analyze it for yourself if youre so inclined. I just find it hard to believe that a desert Arab with no literary background could come up with the literary miracle that it is. Thats enough for me personally.

Euripides posted...

No, it certainly does not

It does.

You have no objective scale to weight "correct" morality other anothers "incorrect" morality because they're all on the same playing field. Flawed humans with limited perspective. Thats the problem with appeals like this.

Toonstrack posted...

Also to folks who say "I decide my own morality and live by what i believe is right"

A serial killer, a dictator and a terrorist is also deciding his own morality and living by what he thinks is right. Sentiment like that places all of these as having equal validity on an objective scale.

So the Abrahamic god, right? Based on the bible, you could absolutely describe him as a serial killer, a dictator and a terrorist.

Also, equal validity according to who?

Toonstrack posted...

It does.

You have no objective scale to weight "correct" morality other anothers "incorrect" morality because they're all on the same playing field. Flawed humans with limited perspective. Thats the problem with appeals like this.

It doesn't take the Bible to get most people to agree that they don't want to be murdered.

reincarnator07 posted...

So the Abrahamic god, right? Based on the bible, you could absolutely describe him as a serial killer, a dictator and a terrorist.

That's not an argument against what I said.

Also, equal validity according to who?

According to everyone? Unless there is some unspoken thing that makes certain humans inherently more valuable than others. I've seen no evidence of that. It boils down to two perspectives and two goals clashing.

Euripides posted...

It doesn't take the Bible to get most people to agree that they don't want to be murdered.

What one person "wants" and what another person "wants" often clash. What obective factor determines which one gets what he wants?

Toonstrack posted...

What one person "wants" and what another person "wants" often clash. What obective factor determines which one gets what he wants?

What part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" empowered people to murder millions of people in the name of Christianity?

falayyou01 posted...

I cant speak for whats been disproven from other religions. But I dont really know of people that have successfully debunked claims made in the Quran convincingly. Again I would invite you to read it and analyze it for yourself if youre so inclined. I just find it hard to believe that a desert Arab with no literary background could come up with the literary miracle that it is. Thats enough for me personally.

The Quran itself has inconsistencies. Google is your friend, but here are some that I like:

2:29: It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heaven and made them into seven firmaments (Skies). - This states that the Earth was created, then the heavens followed. We know the planets formed after the Sun. This is scientifically inaccurate.

54:1: The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has split. - The moon is kinda fucking hueg. If it was split, why did no other culture observe such a phenomenon?

As a general thing, you seem to be more willing to believe in something the more unlikely it is. Don't you think that's pretty illogical?

Toonstrack posted...

That's not an argument against what I said.

If god is the source of morality, it kinda does actually. If something is objectively wrong, why does god get to go against that and do it anyway? Wouldn't it still be wrong?

According to everyone? Unless there is some unspoken thing that makes certain humans inherently more valuable than others. I've seen no evidence of that. It boils down to two perspectives and two goals clashing.

What one person "wants" and what another person "wants" often clash. What obective factor determines which one gets what he wants?

I mean the bible pretty clearly states when I'm allowed to literally own people, so there certainly is precedence from religions of some people being more valuable than others...

You're asking multiple questions here. What is morally right is subjective and depends on who you're asking. Who gets their way depends on the situation in question. For example, in lots of history the person in the right was often decided by "bigger army diplomacy".

That's a 50% chance of God existing since he either does or doesn't so... Cuuuud be.

Nukazie posted...

and yet so many did and no one returned/made a sign to tell about it

jesus returned but he was so traumatized, he got the fuck outta here

Dont forget about Lazarus.

2024 gamefaqs still got unironic euphoric mfers lmao

lol you guys wonder why nobody even knows this place exists anymore

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


lol

which is actually worse, mine or yours?

C_Pain posted...

That's a 50% chance of God existing since he either does or doesn't so... Cuuuud be.

That's not how it would work.

Lets say I go one on one with LeBron James - is there a 50% chance I win or I don't win?

No... Because it's unlikely and unsupported by evidence. Sure, LeBron could immediately trip and twist his ankle, or I could suddenly obtain matrix like superhuman athletic ability, but it's more like a 99% I don't even score once.

A believer in God and a devout here.

I don't care what you believe in or don't believe in, as long as you're a well-mannered human being we'll get along fine. On the other hand, I expect to be treated with the same respect - my beliefs included.

DiaX posted...

A believer in God and a devout here.

I don't care what you believe in or don't believe in, as long as you're a well-mannered human being we'll get along fine. On the other hand, I expect to be treated with the same respect - my beliefs included.

Not if/when your beliefs actively hurt other people

I get the feeling that if there IS an afterlife, it will be full of the same drudgery and unfairness as our lives here. The idea of a 'heaven' where everything is fun and perfect all the time just doesn't match up to reality for me. It seems more likely that any afterlife, being full of human spirits, would be just as bad as the world humans have made here on Earth.

Oblivion and nothingness could in fact be a blessing when compared to the possible alternatives. Heck, imagine an eternal paradise where everyone was happy - but you still carried all your emotional baggage with you, and could never find any rest or any peace and no one could understand because they just expect you to be happy.

Humans are complex beasts, and I feel our perception of a possible afterlife is often rather simplistic.

solosnake posted...

Vegy rose from the dead and beat the system

Vegy is Jesus? Makes total sense now.

Euripides posted...

What part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" empowered people to murder millions of people in the name of Christianity?

Who brought up Christianity?

Why can no one argue these basic questions without scapegoating the Bible, Christianity, or the abrahanic god?

If the tenets of atheist thinking have no defense that doesnt involve the Bible, then those tenets exist only as opposition to the Bible and not as tenets unto themselves.

reincarnator07 posted...

If god is the source of morality, it kinda does actually. If something is objectively wrong, why does god get to go against that and do it anyway? Wouldn't it still be wrong?

God can be any number of things, you're pigeonholing it to the abrahamic Christianity God.

I mean the bible pretty clearly states

Were not arguing the Bible tho.

Stop bringing up the Bible.

You're asking multiple questions here. What is morally right is subjective and depends on who you're asking.

So is your claim that objective morality doesn't exist?

Who gets their way depends on the situation in question.

Does that make who gets their way in the right?

Torgo posted...

That's not how it would work.

Lets say I go one on one with LeBron James - is there a 50% chance I win or I don't win?

False equivalence.

You're equating the basic concept of existence/non existence which is indeed a 50/50 to a quantifiable difference in skill and training that applies to LeBron vs you.

There being no "evidence" isnt itself proof of non-existence. The planet neptune always EXISTED, but there was no evidence to humanity that it existed until they found it. Megalodons always existed, there was no evidence of its existence until we found it.

Toonstrack posted...

False equivalence.

You're equating the basic concept of existence/non existence which is indeed a 50/50 to a quantifiable difference in skill and training that applies to LeBron vs you.

There being no "evidence" isnt itself proof of non-existence. The planet neptune always EXISTED, but there was no evidence to humanity that it existed until they found it. Megalodons always existed, there was no evidence of its existence until we found it.

Careful bud theyre going to whip out the big foot / spaghettti monster argument on you.

falayyou01 posted...

Careful bud theyre going to whip out the big foot / spaghettti monster argument on you.

CE is historically bad with arguments regarding this because they've gotten most of their arguments from reddit.

As in, when someone says "god", they immediately go to Abrahamic god of rhe Christian Bible, no other concept of God can be discussed. Already a fallacy.

Then, when discussing THAT version of God, they simply tell you hes mean, and does things they dont like, so that means he cannot exist of course. Because if a God existed, it would be one whose morality fully lined up with that of the gamefaqs poster, thats the only possible way.

Toonstrack posted...

CE is historically bad with arguments regarding this because they've gotten most of their arguments from reddit.

As in, when someone says "god", they immediately go to Abrahamic god of rhe Christian Bible, no other concept of God can be discussed. Already a fallacy.

Then, when discussing THAT version of God, they simply tell you hes mean, and does things they dont like, so that means he cannot exist of course. Because if a God existed, it would be one whose morality fully lined up with that of the gamefaqs poster, thats the only possible way.

JFC, you're bad at this

Toonstrack posted...

CE is historically bad with arguments regarding this because they've gotten most of their arguments from reddit.

As in, when someone says "god", they immediately go to Abrahamic god of rhe Christian Bible, no other concept of God can be discussed. Already a fallacy.

Then, when discussing THAT version of God, they simply tell you hes mean, and does things they dont like, so that means he cannot exist of course. Because if a God existed, it would be one whose morality fully lined up with that of the gamefaqs poster, thats the only possible way.

I dont really harbor ill will towards them if thats the only conception of the Abrahamic God that they know, being raised in the Christian faith. Its good to foster open discussion though, as long as we can keep things civil (to the extent possible on CE). Unfortunately I find that the board is just pure vitriol towards religion and not much else.