Board 8 > Playing Hades, quick strategy-question.

(+) Yeah! (+)

HaRRicH posted...

Is there another significant ending to note ahead, and is it reasonably within reach from where I'm at now

There is another ending although whether that is reasonably within reach is debatable.

One of the cool things was seeing just how different my 32 heat build was compared to everyone else in the discord server. It was basically completely different for all of us.

HaRRicH posted...

It's been surprising to me too!

A thing happened. Hades didn't fight, credits rolled, Persephone came home, and I got the last trinket. Did it with my first 2-hear run too. Progress!

I think there was some debate on if this means I "beat" the game now. Is there another significant ending to note ahead, and is it reasonably within reach from where I'm at now or it more like "fulfill every prophesy, even catching all fish" or something?

I would call this actually beating the game. The final final ending requires you to become good friends with everyone, which requires a lot of playing. Took me ~90 hours, I think? It's also a minute or two long, so it's more like a bonus scene than an actual ending. I enjoyed playing the game a lot though, so I didn't really mind.

Yeah I'd agree that what you just saw is "beating the game" and the epilogue thing is really more of a small bonus for playing enough to do all the other stuff.

There's basically three endpoints for players to feel satisfied and hop off the game at

Endpoint 1 - Beat Hades and escape the underworld. This will take a decent amount of playing but a regular player can just do this and walk away thinking they had a good time with the game

Endpoint 2 - Beat Hades 10 more times and progress the story to bring mom home. <--- You are here. this is for people who enjoy the gameplay loop to keep going for away but not endlessly.

Endpoint 3 - Facilitate a reunion of the gods by becoming friends with them all <--- this is for people are are so enamored with the game that replaying it over and over is just a fun thing to do.

I loved this game a lot but I didn't make it to endpoint 3. It's really not meant to be something you feel like you have to do, just something neat to work towards as you enjoy the gameplay. They really did weave the plot and characters into the gameplay seamlessly in every way.

see I consider endpoint 3 the true one because it does actually bring closure to the game in a way that actually solves the game's problem while also giving you a reason to keep playing narrative wise. The problem being "Whats' gonna happen when the olympians find out persephone is down there?

The story doesn't really feel truly complete for me until you beat that. But it does indeed take a lot of playtime.

Good to know, thanks ya'll! I don't think I'll make dedicated progress toward Ending 3. I'll replay the game off and on though -- been a lot of fun!

I did an interesting thing today though and revisited my original roguelite, one of my favorite games: The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth. It's been maaaaaybe a year since I last played it, and holy crap -- it was interesting to see the differences.

In short: Hades wants to see you succeed. Binding of Isaac wants to see you die. Think Celeste VS Super Meat Boy or Undertale VS LISA the Painful...

...and first of all, it's worth noting which type of game came first in those comparisons and also which type of game succeeded better with sales and reception. Not to imply all of the harder games that came first paved the way for the next-in-line games, necessarily -- LISA was under a year old before Undertale came out and I would not credit it to Undertale's success -- but it's fascinating to see.

Getting back to Hades VS Binding of Isaac:

***I expected Binding of Isaac to feel better because of its hold-a-button attack controls compared to Hades and it's press/mash-a-button attack controls. This remains true, however...

***Hades will tell you what powers you are receiving within eight(?) categories and then give you three random choices with mostly-very-clear descriptions of what they do before you pick which one of the three. Binding of Isaac will let you look at the power -- one out of hundreds with no prior description before and sometimes just a vague hint even after picking it up. Now, to its credit, the item is usually the same every time, but also I can't remember them all -- some of them look too similar anyway even if I could -- and I don't want to always have a website up scrolling trying to visually match the icons to see what I'm about to grab.

***Binding of Isaac does have a lot more variations in its runs though. The worlds, the enemies, the room shapes, the bosses, of course the powers again, all that. Hades varies these too but not as much.

***Hades crushes it with its emphasis on story and voice-acting. Binding of Isaac tells you everything you need to know in its opening cutscenes and grossness of its enemies, and if you're lucky you'll get to an ending that might make sense but is never assured it will. Hades confidently if not brilliantly weaves its story directly into the gameplay loop with story arcs, character development, enemy profiles, pom-based relationships, item-specific dialogues depending on your weapon/trinket/boon, and more. I just can't keep paying full attention to it anymore outside of key story stuff like the endings, but goodness gracious this game is full of that.

***Hades is linear with some occasions branching paths. Binding of Isaac gives you routes where you can skip ahead thanks, but also it is more maze-like with secret rooms and obscure teleport-methods along the way. You really don't always know what "the end" is supposed to look like from the beginning each time either.

***Hades has very customizable challenges for increased difficulty. Meanwhile, Binding of Isaac has a variety of pre-set challenges.

***Hades has you gambling for powerful synergies at the end of each encounter. Binding of Isaac has you gambling similarly with each floor and power-room, but also you're gambling for more coins/keys/bombs a lot in the arcade rooms too.

***Both games have you fucking up your parents in boss fights -- Hades has your father as the eponymous character to fight at the end while Binding of Isaac has you fighting your mother at or near the end each time. Either way, don't tell your parents.

That:s enough for now. This was eye-opening more than I thought it would be to play them back-to-back though.

Every played Dead Cells? It gave me a lot of Hades vibes, but I haven't played nearly as much of it.

I love both games but BoI drives me crazy with how much I have to reference the wiki during serious attempts. The run variety is great but please explain what things do in-game. Hades is definitely more user friendly (not to mention killing it on aesthetics and story).

Dead Cells looks cool and I appreciate its Metroidvania-take as someone who enjoys that genre, but it didn't connect with me much gameplay-wise...only tried it a little. It feels like a weird mix of genres, but glad to see the attempt there anyway.

Exactly regarding BoI and the wiki. Hades is much more user friendly and deserves a lot of credit for that. I know part of BoI's vibe is overcoming the difficulty, but that is not difficult -- it's vague on key mechanics and has been an issue long before Hades was released.