Board 8 > Playing Hades, quick strategy-question.

(+) Yeah! (+)

my memory of this stuff isr pretty bad

Im pretty sure the gems are basically just for unlocking cosmetic alterations to the home base, so they should be your lowest priority

also mirror upgrades are going to affect every run, a lot of the other stuff is only going to affect a run when you equip is specifically, so you may want to focus on darkness at first?

but also darkness is very common, so maybe you dont need to focus too much on it if youre offered a choice between darkness and nectar or something.

One nectar to everyone initially to get their charm

MoogleKupo141 posted...

my memory of this stuff isr pretty bad

Im pretty sure the gems are basically just for unlocking cosmetic alterations to the home base, so they should be your lowest priority

There are a couple of functional gem upgrades iirc. Like I don't think you can get Fountain Rooms without them. But overall yea, gem is lowest priority for gameplay wise, but some things are neccessary for story unlocks.

But from what I remember:

Early on: Keys = Darkness > Nectar (One for each) > Gems > Blood > The rest

Mid to Late game: Blood > Darkness > Nectar/Ambrosia > Diamond > Gems >>>>> Keys

Didn't like Hades. That being said, unlocking all of the mirror talents and using some good ones, in particular gaining more health when you gain darkness is nice. Diamonds are strictly useful in the beginning works contracts as you can put more health fountains in each world. After that, lose their shine.

Using the weapon you are most comfortable with and then getting some good boons is the way to go. You can bring up the boon list which can give you hints on how to get more, and you can do some interesting stuff with the different combinations you get.

My runs started to massively improve with more mirror upgrades. Finding which weapons I'm more proficient with and focuses on builds for those. Shield and Bow were great for me as I could block damage rather than dodge it or pick off enemies from afar which fit my playstyle. Your mileage may very of course.

Save the titan blood for weapon upgrades, and go for gemstones early on because there are a few functional things to buy with them before they become the currency for cosmetics. The broker will always have one unique deal after each run so it's worth checking every time.

Also, if you're using a controller the trick with the fishing is to go by the visual indication and not the controller vibration. It took me a long time to figure out you can get a 'perfect catch' if you hit it right on and produce rarer fish/items.

Thanks everybody! I got to the Thesius/Minotaur fight for my first time today...shew. Run of I think 35-37, I forget.

Spear is my new favorite weapon (spamming specials with back-attacks maxed out in the mirror is good, plus when I can get the boons that have the spear bounce around more...aw yeah). Don't care for the fists, and I think that's a pistol for the last weapon ahead. We'll see.

I'm gonna upgrade/test some of these other trinkets while I try to make out these extra lives in the mirror (defiant deaths, I think). It also looks like I can rotate between these trinkets mid-run, which I knew, but since one of them allows me to defy death I need to balance when I have that trinket used. I don't always need it in standby, especially now that I maxed it out to three stars

Hades is a ton of fun. I remember Spear being good but it was my least used weapon by the endgame.

Any builds or mirror upgrades you particularly like?

Biggest prio is getting bloods imo. Put them into the spear to unlock some important stuff. After that, try to evenly clear with every weapon while upgrading your fave.

HaRRicH posted...

Thanks everybody! I got to the Thesius/Minotaur fight for my first time today...shew. Run of I think 35-37, I forget.

That was my biggest hurdle initially. Now I can basically do it blindfolded.

Going off memory: I've been using the mirror and trinkets to get me to defy death multiple times, then get the spear with the mirror's backstab-poi ts up and spam specials so the spear backstabs on the return most of the time.

Maybe it was lightning/Zeus that let my spear hit multiple targets at a time...? Whatever it was, that was my shit. Barely even saw the purpose for normal attacks at that point, especially when I coupled it with doom-status and kept getting pomegranates to amplify that.

And then it was defensive stuff from there where I could. Reflections on dashes, less damage, etc.

Also I'm giving Chaos a chance almost every time I see it. Maybe not in the later rounds, but if it's the beginning? Bet. Hope it lets me make my special stronger but we'll see what it gives.

Died late in the second form of Hades today. Dammit!!!

Spear is absolutely the way to go for me and I don't understand how people can be as good with the other weapons, but that's fine -- just my preference.

How did ya'll fight against Thesius? I beat him and the Minotaur once -- Minotaur's "easy" enough, but I don't understand how to fight shielded enemies well yet like him but also some generic enemies. Are back-attacks the only/main thing to do there? If so, Ialready got the spear for it, but still...feels like a bullet-sponge and would like a way that doesn't take as much time and button-jamming.....

Spear is my worst weapon lol. It would be the sword but there's one really good sword aspect that I like a lot.

Yeah Thesius can be pretty tough with the spear. You could try to create an AoE cast build alongside your spear. Dionysius and Ares would be good for that. A full powered Call is very helpful in any boss battle really (some are more helpful than others).

I wouldn't stress about not being able to consistently beat that particular battle though. I thought I'd never be able to beat them and when I did I felt it was my only chance at escaping. It was not and eventually it got to the point where they're pretty easy now lol.

I personally think the Thesius fight is harder than the hades fight.

Different aspects completely change how weapons feel though. I actually think base spear is probably my favorite base.

Is there any purpose for Ambrosia beyond Titan's Blood and Companions? I almost never go for Call-powers and the latter of those seems similar from what I looked up. I just want to upgrade the heck out of my spear and am trying to see if I should wait on that or not.

Did worse on my second Hades-fight, but also I'm getting that two-on-one match down much better now. Kill the minotaur first, full-stop. Beat them with the spear two or three times and just beat them with the sword for my first time!

Dark mirror powers are almost completely maxed out now besides rerolling the items.

HaRRicH posted...

Dark mirror powers are almost completely maxed out now besides

Just making sure, you know that there is two colors to the mirror right

Ambrosia is basically the late-game nectar, its needed to do the later levels of relationships with the various npcs, which is needed to unlock some later story beats

Yes about the mirror -- about to reset the darkness and try a new build! I also think I can cheese one of the new prophecies with just a few reset-keys and the mirror...will experiment soon.

But first, a celebration: my first escape!

With the damn shield of all things.

These diamond laser-casts got upgraded a bunch and I finally got used to watching for my Call-powers to arise. Then I had a power that gave me a heart every 0.8 seconds on my last life. I've also been trying a lot of different power-ups on my runs without the spear, so that's given me some experimenting time with the Calls now and Athena's invincibility is really nice. All that came together for not just my first win but also buying my first diamond near the end of the run. Aw yeah.

I'm not listening to all the voice acting anymore, but to Super giant's credit they did a bunch with dialogue, lore, and ongoing character development that I didn't expect out of this. I know there's more, but I just don't care enough to focus on it much anymore.

And really I thiiiink my time with the game is winding down now that I got an escape, but I dunno -- I said that about the Binding of Isaac before too. I still want to beat it another time or three and see if I've seen "enough of everything" about this game or not...but also Pizza Tower awaits and I do wanna see what that game's about soon too.

Quality game, Hades.

HaRRicH posted...

But first, a celebration: my first escape!

With the damn shield of all things.

I think that was my first win too. Same for my friends. Its good!

If you feel compelled, there is still a ton of plot and characterization left in the game.

HaRRicH posted...

I still want to beat it another time or three and see if I've seen "enough of everything" about this game or not.

you are kind of just starting

Definitely got my first clear with the bow or shield but I can't remember which one. Zeus aspect is probably one of my favorites aspects. Chiron for bow is bonkers with the right special boons. Love those two.

But yeah you've really only scratched the surface. Though I guess it depends on what you're looking to get out of it? As has been mentioned there's still a ton of plot to go through. Tons of builds and weapon upgrades that you can experiment with. Or if you're just looking to challenge yourself there's ways to do that as well. Personally I played the hell outta it. Tried to play some other games after and I just kept coming back to Hades for awhile.

Yeah the first 'victory' is kind of the start of the game, as Steiner said. If you're not enjoying it a lot feel free to quit, but there is literally so much more to the game after your first clear.

but if you leave it for Pizza Tower, fair.

I think I beat Hades on my 7th run and then beat him every 2-3 runs after that, so I dunno if I can give much advice. Other than that flurry shot with the bow is OP.

Just a note: there is an ending you can get. I'd try to at least get that far before quitting. I can tell you the requirements if you like; they're not terribly arduous, but it'll take a while longer.

Yeah there are multiple entire play styles that cant even be unlocked until after your first escape. Whether youre looking for more story or more gameplay, theyve got more in store

It takes ten clears to get the true final endingif I remember that right.

But you should definitely try to at least clear it with each weapon, just for the experience.

Seanchan posted...

It takes ten clears to get the true final endingif I remember that right.

This is what I'd consider the second ending. Theres another ending requiring you to befriend most/all of the olypus gods (not sure on specifics)

Okay, Im pretty sure I didnt do that. I know I did quite a bit of it but not with everyone.

Hades was just a super fun, addicting game to play. One of the few where I wanted to play more even after the credits. Eventually I reached that satisfaction point though.

WazzupGenius00 posted...

Whether youre looking for more story or more gameplay, theyve got more in store

I'm on #TeamGameplay. It's impressive what they've done with the story, but I've gotten enough of that aspect to where I'm speed-reading or skipping instead of listening to the voice acting, and I'm valuing the power upgrades more than the storyboard unlocks with the Ambrosia.

And yeah, really enjoying Hades! If I switch off of it soon, it's just because I have Pizza Tower waiting for me next and I haven't touched that game yet.

I don't think I'm DONE with the game, and I like this new Heat system for letting me get many more valuable items again...I dunno, guess I just gotta see what's ahead for me

foolm0r0n posted...

I think I beat Hades on my 7th run and then beat him every 2-3 runs after that, so I dunno if I can give much advice. Other than that flurry shot with the bow is OP.

This is wild to me but that's awesome. I wonder how the game handles the lore-skipping when you beat it that fast. It feels like a bunch would get missed, but the game's probably prepared for some players to do that too.

It's been interesting trying to put my if-I-was-a-designer-hat on thinking about how the game handles this element of story progression for vastly different players.

as far as gameplay goes, darkness is definitely the most essential investment since as it's been said, mirror is p much your end all be all for upgrades, esp death defiances. Load up on those whenever possible imo.

The other stuff you'll just get as you play but I wouldn't neglect anything, ambrosia and nectar in particular will be helpful in progressing the story at a reasonable manner if you've been gifting it all game.

I beat it on I think the 8th attempt, and it didn't feel like I missed much lore. A lot of the conversations are just based on the number of times you've seen certain characters.

It's not so much about missing lore as it is there's basically a lock on the true endgame content unless, as colegreen said, you forge a bond with most of the gods. I definitely had to do some grinding at a certain point because I hadn't been doing that.

Yeah I'd echo what everyone else said - IMO it's very, very worth playing until you actually get to the first ending, which doesn't take long and ties up most of the narrative. Most of the really interesting stuff in the game isn't even accessible until around where you're at anyway so it's definitely worth going that far if you've enjoyed what you've seen so far.

Whether you go further than that (and there is still more to be had) is much more a matter of preference, I'd say. I personally dropped it well before reaching 100% since IMO while Hades is an incredible, beautifully assembled game, it's actually not a very good roguelike just due to how little uncontrollable run variance there is and how overwhelmingly your pre-run choices impact your run. I hit a point where I felt like no build was ever out of reach if I wanted to do it in a given run and my interest just fell off a cliff since randomness and adaptation is the thing I play this genre for.

Hades, a fantastic video game. Was just recently trying to talk a friend into playing it.

Come on Charon. I was only gonna borrow that money.

I think I could escape a lot more often if I stuck with certain weapons and didn't worry about the heat...but also, some like it hot. I tried the ice-blue hearts category first about how every enemy takes one hit from me harmlessly...but that was causing more problems than expected. Now I'm testing the speed categories.

1) 9:00 per underworld -- got to Hades, dies via damage in the second phase.

2) 7:00 per underworld -- got to Hades, died via damage in the second phase, managed to do every chamber in the Styx to buy a diamond at the end.

3). 5:00 per underworld -- got to Theseus/minotaur, died in the first phase via timer.

I think I'll scale this back from 5:00 to 7:00 and then 9:00 next time. By the time I'm back to 9:00, I'll feel a lot more comfortable with time management and faster gameplay...so I think this one will be relatively harmless with some more practice.

(I'll also have my third death defiance again then! I reset the mirror and overstocked on those rerolling reset stones...which are expensive, and also this is not the only time I've upgraded them too much at the expense of other stuff)

Got my first Erebus item (heart)! Interesting how its currency works.

Poseidon has two abilities I still need to get to complete the prophecy. One ability left for Aphrodite, Artimus, and Hermes too. Several of these have no requirement -- just seems to be luck-based...and a few of them are wearing me out trying to unlock the right boons first (Aphrodite's Crush Shot is nice, but not always what I want and yet I gotta have it to get my last missing power from her).

I maxed out the boons-as-chamber-prizes category in the mirror and reroll with my reset-stones trying to increase my odds, but man...like, how long will it take with some of these powers, ya know? I can use those trinkets too to influence which boons I get soon'ish too, but are there any other things I can do to influence the odds in my favor when trying to complete the Codex? I won't do that with all of the things in the Codex, but mechanically this game really nails incremental increases in power...just don't expect me to do them all, and I wish I could wrap up this collecting-part of the boons' main powers.

Lost a fight to Hades due to the timer from the heat...UGH. I even had a +1 health every 0.8 seconds for my final life which won it for me before, but the death timer just ticks harder.

I forget my exact 32 heat set-up but I think I stayed away from the timers. Maybe took the 9min one if anything. I know I got a lot of heat from the option that makes you give up boons regularly (at the end of each area, IIRC). What heat level are you trying to beat?

As for the few unfulfilled prophecies, I just keep them in the back of my mind as I do my runs. You'll get them eventually.

Yeah I'm basically just rotating through my weapons and items because I can usually make some prophecy-progress each time. Currently working toward escaping having used every mirror-power. Two left! Not excited about losing my three death defiance soon though.

Thirty-two heat is outrageous to me. I see the game gently pushing forward to get better at the game and I am, but like...my recond's one. Been trying two sometimes though! Time and boss battlesseem pretty good for me so far, but I gotta try these other heat-options more. I also tried one that maxed out all heat...got to the second room! And then I watched a dude online beat that same difficulty three times faster than I have ever escaped before.

My good news is I escaped twice back to back with new weapons! All that's left is the knuckles then that's a prophecy down...and I just got a lot of Titan's Blood so I'll be maxing out my dodge percentages before my next run.

Best death defiance once you get very comfortable with the game to have is the one that will restore you once per chamber. You can work arpund this and do some clever stuff, like intentionally die to the last enemy or so to restore to threshold level for the next room, etc. As for the fist, I never actually concentrated on the dodge percentage increase. Always went for maiming enemies since once maimed damage can get absurd.

Other good mirror talents is the cumulative damage increase per boon you get. Always a good idea to pay chaos a visit very early if you can and either go for one that will increase your damage or money so that you can roll in dough for Charon and more boons.

Also....do you use cast? I actually stopped using it like 20 hours in because I always found the damage for it too slow and cumbersome and didn't bother unless I got Demeter's cast.

Some builds that will do lots of damage are Crit builds, Rupture builds, Revenge builds, Agony/Weak/Hangover builds bundled in with Chill.....your damage can get to absurd levels as long as you seek out boons for the build you want and get lucky with setup.

Also, there is a keepsake later that is totally overpowered, but it's one of the last you can get....no spoilers on who it belongs to though.

One more thing....God mode, yes or no?

32 heat would be insane at the part of the game you're at. I did it after literally everything else (short of grinding for cosmetics) and I have to assume that's the standard (well, tbh the standard is probably not bothering at all). Don't feel bad if you're struggling to keep bumping it up, it's all about finding a set-up that works for you, and that means 1) finding a play-style you're very comfortable with and 2) figuring out what heat settings you can tolerate and which are hard nos. Escaping with every weapon is a great goal to strive for right now!

most_games_r_ok posted...

.your damage can get to absurd levels as long as you seek out boons for the build you want and get lucky with setup.

This is the lesson today. I tag-teamed my favorite (Demeter) with Artimus and took over with crystals that were lasting 6.2 seconds as well as faster accular, increased damage, and chill ability...plus from Chaos I got another bloodstone. With those factors combined, this was the first time I ever escaped without dying and I even almost had full health against Hades by the time I won. It took a little planning for the Duo attack to make this happen, but once it did...it just clicked.

I am very skeptical on this +1 side of the argument for death defiance, but now it's my last mirror skill so...gonna have to learn your strategy in action.

Bonus boon damage, yes, it's solid. Chaos are great in the first underworld. I need to try them more in the second underworld now that I'm getting better.

I have one trinket/keepsake/whatever left to unlock. I imagine it's got something to do with Persephone...we'll see.

No God Mode! Thought about it early on though and I like the sound of how God Mode slowly improves for players --sounds mechanically sound.

Kenri posted...

Escaping with every weapon is a great goal to strive for right now!

Mission accomplished: finished the Knuckles.

So much Titan Blood to spend soon.....

HaRRicH posted...

No God Mode! Thought about it early on though and I like the sound of how God Mode slowly improves for players --sounds mechanically sound.

It is, especially if you fear that you aren't quite good enough for the extreme heat stuff. Don't recommend people do that until they've beaten game a fair few times though and want to do extreme heat. Lesson is usually just get good enough. Have fun ploughing on, might as well try runs with at least one of every aspect unlocked as well, then load up on the best one one you have one that suits your style.

HaRRicH posted...

I am very skeptical on this +1 side of the argument for death defiance, but now it's my last mirror skill so...gonna have to learn your strategy in action.

Welp, I cleared this mirror skill after all.

I felt a little sneaky getting some death-health, that was fine, but just getting 30% of my health back on the next life is a loss in my mind compared to the three 50% death defiance I had before. Still...if this was combined with some of those boons and trinkets that give you more power and toughness at lower health, this can become more interesting.

My next run's gonna be the Knuckles again (following the Dark Thirst almost every time), and I decided to max out the grabbing aspect with the Titan's Blood...I liked the auto dodge, but also holy crap I see room for a lot of multi-hits with how this can bring enemies together. I want to get Demeter's crystal lasers with this and pull these fools into the lasers while I go ham on them...should be fun soon.

I love how much you're still playing it lol. I think about coming back to the game pretty often.

This topic has me itching to play again lol

Merciful End is my favorite build for the fists. Things just die so quickly with it and it's fun to watch lol.

Waluigi1 posted...

I love how much you're still playing it lol. I think about coming back to the game pretty often.

It's been surprising to me too!

A thing happened. Hades didn't fight, credits rolled, Persephone came home, and I got the last trinket. Did it with my first 2-hear run too. Progress!

I think there was some debate on if this means I "beat" the game now. Is there another significant ending to note ahead, and is it reasonably within reach from where I'm at now or it more like "fulfill every prophesy, even catching all fish" or something?

there is more, and it basically boils down to "keep beating the game, and keep being friends with the gods" iirc