Current Events > Racist mfs side with the racist X-Men villain cuz of course they do

(+) Yeah! (+)

StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah, this is what's wild to me. A startling number of people on this board would literally be racist villains in the X-men universe.

The Venn diagram of people who would be racist villains in the X-men universe and Trump voters is pretty much two overlapping circles. Indeed, that's a startling number of people.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Yes, i understand most mutants arent capable of destroying the world or mass destruction, but most of the ones we follow in the comics, both good or evil, are.

Again, people shouldnt be racist to anyone because they are a mutant. A guy who can explode people by looking at them is a little different than a guy with different skin color than me though. That is all im saying.

Even if we allow that, how big does the power difference have to be before its okay to treat them differently just because of what they have the potential to do?

Its a really nebulous concept, especially if you try to apply that logic to the real world. Should we all fear men who are much larger than average, regardless of their behaviour?

I understand people fearing those mutants who have used their powers to hurt others. But then, youre not fearing them because theyre a mutant at that point, are you? Youre fearing them because theyve shown a capacity and aptitude for violence.

StealThisSheen posted...

So then you are literally just on record for saying "It's okay that, in the comics, the ENTIRE mutant race is marginalized, because there's a guy that can explode people by looking at them."

You aren't helping your case, here.

jesus christ no i dont think racism is okay as ive already said in multiple posts.

Im just trying to say that making the minority analogy actually objectively different than other humans and often capable of accidental destruction has always made me uncomfortable. Because minorities and marginalized groups are just people like anyone else, they might just look different or be attracted to different people than I am.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

jesus christ no i dont think racism is okay as ive already said in multiple posts.

Im just trying to say that making the minority analogy actually objectively different than other humans and often capable of accidental destruction has always made me uncomfortable. Because minorities and marginalized groups are just people anyone else, they might just look different or be attracted to different people than I am.

This is literally your argument:

"Jesus christ I'm not saying racism is okay. I'm just saying this analogy doesn't work because in this case racism is okay."

I'm not sure how you don't get this.

The problem with Explode By Looking guy isn't that he's a mutant, and so you shouldn't be okay with all mutants being marginalized, and representing mutants as marginalized shouldn't make you "uncomfortable." The problem with Explode By Looking guy is literally if he decides to ACTUALLY make people explode, and then the problem is his choice of actions, not him being a mutant.

A minority guy can build a bomb and blow people up. Do you suddenly feel uncomfortable about calling that minority "marginalized," because of the actions of Bomb Guy?

StealThisSheen posted...

This is literally your argument:

"Jesus christ I'm not saying racism is okay. I'm just saying this analogy doesn't work because in this case racism is okay."

I'm not sure how you don't get this.

Ive not even once said i agree with the character in the clip at all. Almost all of my arguments have been my out of universe explanations between the differences of the X men and real life marginalized groups.

Where have i even said that the mutants arent marginalized?

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

jesus christ no i dont think racism is okay as ive already said in multiple posts.

Im just trying to say that making the minority analogy actually objectively different than other humans and often capable of accidental destruction has always made me uncomfortable. Because minorities and marginalized groups are just people anyone else, they might just look different or be attracted to different people than I am.

So are mutants. That's the point of the entire story. I don't understand how you're missing this point. You're just assuming that because they have big strong powers that means they're a lethal force and should be persecuted/registered/locked up, etc.

They might not mean you any harm at all, which is the entire point we're trying to make to you.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Ive not even once said i agree with the character in the clip at all. Almost all of my arguments have been my out of universe explanations between the differences of the X men and real life marginalized groups.

Those "differences" are "A few people in this marginalized group chose to do bad things, so I'm now saying the entire group can't be considered marginalized."

That's a terrible argument.

I realize I made the edit late, so let me ask again:

A minority guy can build a bomb and blow people up. Do you suddenly feel uncomfortable about calling that minority "marginalized," because of the actions of Bomb Guy?

NoMeLx22x posted...

So are mutants. That's the point of the entire story. I don't understand how you're missing this point. You're just assuming that because they have big strong powers that means they're a lethal force and should be persecuted/registered/locked up, etc.

They might not mean you any harm at all, which is the entire point we're trying to make to you.

No i legitimately do not think they should be locked up and persecuted what the actual fuck? Where did i say anything remotely close to this?

You know, do the X-Men even have any human affiliated groups they're friends with who constantly show up? Even Bruce Banner used to have Rick Jones before he became a Hulk himself with a really stupid name

Sheeeeesh

tremain07 posted...

You know, do the X-Men even have any human affiliated groups they're friends with who constantly show up? Even Bruce Banner used to have Rick Jones before he became a Hulk himself with a really stupid name

Outside of random human characters, SHIELD itself. Not "constantly," because the entire point of X-Men is the mutants don't want to rely on human intervention, for obvious reasons, but when they REALLY need them...

Otherwise, that's literally a plot point. They don't have many human affiliated groups helping them because of, you know, racism.

StealThisSheen posted...

I mean a vast majority of X-Men mutants don't have literal "nuke" powers. Some of them have stuff like "Grow quills kinda sorta and also you can't turn it off so people judge you for looking weird."

As half baked as it also was in My Hero Academia, it unironically worked better in that shit because it is literally this example where people hate Spinner 'cause he looks like a gecko or Tentacole 'cause he has those six arms with skin webbing in between in a world where most of the population has powers and most of those are relatively weaksauce shit.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

I dont know the context of this scene, but x men as a stand in for marginalized groups always had some issues.

I understand what they are supposed to represent, not being seen as equals, even inhuman, but giving some of them abilities of mass destruction and thus a legitimate reason to fear them never quite sat right with me.

As opposed to humanity who created the Sentinels that lead to an apocalypse.

So he's telling us that he gets mad whenever any minority gets some sort of aid in real life.

StealThisSheen posted...

Those "differences" are "A few people in this marginalized group chose to do bad things, so I'm now saying the entire group can't be considered marginalized."

That's a terrible argument.

I realize I made the edit late, so let me ask again:

A minority guy can build a bomb and blow people up. Do you suddenly feel uncomfortable about calling that minority "marginalized," because of the actions of Bomb Guy?

Im going to say it one more time, and then be done because it seems like im just getting words put out into my mouth.

Racism and bigotry is not okay. Being racist against all mutants because some of them can explode the world is not okay.

That being said, its always going to be an imperfect representation of real life marginalized groups to me because real life groups are literally just normal people. It makes me uncomfortable at times that a group representing the marginalization faced by real life groups is objectively different and the prominent figures of said group that we follow are born with genetic weapons.

Every post ive made in this topic also has absolutely 0 to do with the twitter post in question.

tremain07 posted...

You know, do the X-Men even have any human affiliated groups they're friends with who constantly show up? Even Bruce Banner used to have Rick Jones before he became a Hulk himself with a really stupid name

Generally no. When it comes to mutant affairs, regardless of the severity theyre usually on their own. And the times others actually did have been few and far between.

Something that has only recently started to shift with the current fall of X event.

dancing_cactuar posted...

As half baked as it also was in My Hero Academia, it unironically worked better in that shit because it is literally this example where people hate Spinner 'cause he looks like a gecko or Tentacole 'cause he has those six arms with skin webbing in between in a world where most of the population has powers and most of those are relatively weaksauce shit.

MHA actually did it very well, considering how comics/manga usually treat it, even if "half baked." I feel like Spinner is a very well played character, for example, in that he idolized somebody like Stain because he felt so marginalized and hated himself, and you just get the feeling that if somebody good had reached him sooner, he'd have been a good guy, since his entire devotion to the current villains is almost entirely based on his friendship/sense of belonging, to them.

From everything I read in this topic half of you are low key being racist.

StealThisSheen posted...

A minority guy can build a bomb and blow people up. Do you suddenly feel uncomfortable about calling that minority "marginalized," because of the actions of Bomb Guy?

You've changed the analogy. The X-men equivalent would be asking how you react to the good bomb guys? The guys who are part of a vigilante group building bombs to fight bad guys on their own, how do we react to them? The good X-men are still walking bombs and that is definitely not how we should be viewing minorities.

bfslick50 posted...

You've changed the analogy. The X-men equivalent would be asking how you react to the good bomb guys? The guys who are part of a vigilante group building bombs to fight bad guys on their own, how do we react to them? The good X-men are still walking bombs and that is definitely not how we should be viewing minorities.

...If you view the GOOD mutants as "walking bombs" simply because of their powers, and not because of their actions, uh... Yes, that's racist as fuck. If the good X-Men have never bombed innocent people, then why are you judging them? Literally anybody can build a bomb.

StealThisSheen posted...

MHA actually did it very well, even if "half baked." I feel like Spinner is a very well played character, for example, in that he idolized somebody like Stain because he felt so marginalized and hated himself, and you just get the feeling that if somebody good had reached him sooner, he'd have been a good guy, since his entire devotion to the current villains is almost entirely based on his friendship/sense of belonging, to them.

I don't know if you're reading the manga or watching the anime, but the way shit's done in the Final War arc really throws a lot of it under the drain in my opinion. I get him accepting more power from AFO because he feels what he has isn't enough compared to someone like Dabi, but him getting reduced intelligence even worse than Gigantomachia as a result left a sour taste. I also get being manipulated into being the "face" of AFO's heteromorph forces with the ulterior reason to get Kurogiri, but I dislike that some random toady that Anima took out with a bunch of birds was the voice because Spinner could barely form a sentence.

dancing_cactuar posted...

I don't know if you're reading the manga or watching the anime, but the way shit's done in the Final War arc really throws a lot of it under the drain in my opinion. I get him accepting more power from AFO because he feels what he has isn't enough compared to someone like Dabi, but him getting reduced intelligence even worse than Gigantomachia as a result left a sour taste. I also get being manipulated into being the "face" of AFO's heteromorph forces with the ulterior reason to get Kurogiri, but I dislike that some random toady that Anima took out with a bunch of birds was the voice because Spinner could barely form a sentence.

I'm torn on this. I sorta get it, because AFO blatantly fed on Spinner's devotion to Shigaraki, and Spinner is devoted to Shigaraki entirely because he views him as a friend who never judged him. Yes, I didn't like the whole... Devolving Spinner into a mindless beast bit, but it made sense to me, because, again, AFO basically fed it to him as... "You're helping your friend this way." I'm sorta okay with it because it's painted as AFO basically taking advantage of Spinner, not something Spinner actually actively chose, himself. He was sorta tricked into it.

For the ppl who don't get the issue some ppl have. It is like when some ppl saw Zootopia and said the predators were minorities. Yeah pls don't view us as Potentially dangerous like that
And at the same time dont join a nazi group who wants to kill all mutants, benders, foxes, ect.

StealThisSheen posted...

...If you view the GOOD mutants as "walking bombs" simply because of their powers, and not because of their actions, uh... Yes, that's racist as fuck. If the good X-Men have never bombed innocent people, then why are you judging them? Literally anybody can build a bomb.

Using their powers to exert extrajudicial vigilante justice isn't part of their actions?

bfslick50 posted...

Using their powers to exert extrajudicial vigilante justice isn't part of their actions?

"Just think if they stopped only targeting criminals and attacked all of us!" is literally a racist X-men villain argument. Good job.

Spoilers: 99% of superheroes exert extrajudicial vigilante justice.

Leave it to motherfucking CE to side with the Friends of Humanity.

cjsdowg posted...

For the ppl who don't get the issue some ppl have. It is like when some ppl saw Zootopia and said the predators were minorities. Yeah pls don't view use as Potentially dangerous like that
And at the same time dont join a nazi group who wants to kill all mutants, benders, foxes, ect.

This is all ive been trying to say for the whole topic

Like, 90% of fucking Captain America himself's actions are "extrajudicial vigilante justice."

The nature of superhero comics means most the featured characters end up skewing towards the powerful. The thing about the X-Men is that they are not indicative of the average mutant. For every Cyclops there are one hundred mutants with non-threatening, even actively self-debilitating, powers. The X-Men, being the rare handful of mutants with actual combat powers, are trying to protect mutants like Beak, from getting killed by some piece of shit.

Nobody is racist to Beak because they are scared of his ability to harm them. They just do so because they are pieces of shit. Just like real life racist.

Yeah, some X-Men are crazy powerful. Being the X-Men, they learn to control their powers and not terrorize people for the hell of it.
I'm not super-versed on Marvel, but I don't know if there's a group as unjustly and constantly hated as mutants. I say unjustly because we're talking penny dreadful-quality writing where an entire alien race might just be evil because "aliens."

StealThisSheen posted...

"Just think if they stopped only targeting criminals and attacked all of us!" is literally a racist X-men villain argument. Good job.

If you want to make real world connections, the ones committing vigilant justice are Zimmerman and Rittenhouse. The X-men are not a good stand-in for minorities.

Spoilers: 99% of superheroes exert extrajudicial vigilante justice.

Right, which is why they're a bad stand-in for minorities. Batman being a wanted criminal at the end of one his movies is not a stand-in for minorities being targeted. Same with the X-men who are just as rich.

dancing_cactuar posted...

Mutants as an analogy for marginalized people never fucking worked in my book because at least where I'm from, black people and the gay community don't have the ability to shoot laser beams out of their eyeballs, control the weather, or just be a permanent walking cloud of poison like that one Ultimate comic where a kid that accidentally killed 265 people including his parents is killed by Wolverine.

It also doesn't work in universe for Marvel because you have a bunch of people with superpowers to the point where you have shit like House of M Spiderman just pretending to be a mutant the whole time.

I feel it works better in the Marvel universe specifically because anybody can get super powers, but only mutants get singled out - over the arbitrary difference that theyre born with their powers.

The arbitrariness is what makes the racism feel more real to me.

A show is well written when you can actually see and understand from the other persons perspective on why they do what they do, but that is entirely different than agreeing with them and their actions they take because of those reasons.

Baron_Ox posted...

even if they're correct about the X-Men, the average mutant doesn't have access to those resources.

it would be like, using the experiences of rich people from marginalized groups to make a statement about the marginalized groups in general.

but bigots tend to be dumb dumbs

The majority of mutant powers are useless too

Some of the responses in this topic really making Magneto look right.

"The X-Men aren't marginalized because they have powers!"

Yeah and using those powers would be considered criminal in most cases. If you're going around and intentionally melting people's faces, the government is going to have you killed, not give you human rights.

And as stated for every mutant with strong powers there's a hundred with weak/pointless/actively detrimental powers.

https://imgur.com/gallery/I71V6

(Ultimate X-Men spoilers?)

Behold, a mutant with so much power. So much power that totally means he get to have human rights.

The problem with Mutants is you can make a legit "us vs them" argument with how powerful some of them are. It would work better if they were limited to "street level" that could eventually be taken down by enough humans. The politics around them and their rights is on point, but the power imbalance makes it hard to take seriously.

Umbreon posted...

Some of the responses in this topic really making Magneto look right.

"The X-Men aren't marginalized because they have powers!"

Yeah and using those powers would be considered criminal in most cases. If you're going around and intentionally melting people's faces, the government is going to have you killed, not give you human rights.

And as stated for every mutant with strong powers there's a hundred with weak/pointless/actively detrimental powers.

The X-men are depicted as marginalized, but it's weird that they're depicted that way. People with those powers would probably more likely get an MCU experience: a lot would be celebrities, or tech giant CEOs, many could make bank with their powers in a capitalist society, most dictators would be extremely powerful mutants, there'd be a shit ton of mutants within the wealthiest 1%.

Captain America, Spiderman, and Batman have all had recent movie plotlines of being a wanted criminal because they're vigilantes operating outside the justice system. But when that same plotline happens to the X-men, it's supposed to mean a different thing, and the analogy they're trying to make doesn't really hold.

This Topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0cc570f3.jpg

masterpug53 posted...

This Topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0cc570f3.jpg

This

masterpug53 posted...

This Topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0cc570f3.jpg

lol

Of course plenty of people ITT would go to bat for fascists.

I'm absolutely baffled how many people are going "It's okay to be racist against a group as long as a few of them are criminals and thus you fear them."

Like, legitimately baffled.

GrandConjuraton posted...

Of course plenty of people ITT would go to bat for fascists.

Yeah but the X-Men can kill you! /s

Aloc posted...

The x men aren't marginalized.

They could kill us all.

Or destroy our minds.

Or something.
Being marginalized means you have no or little power.

No it doesn't.

They are marginalized because they are treated differently. They dont have power. They dont have political power or economic power. Any physical powers they have are matches if not exceeded by several nob mutant members so that isnt it either.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Doesn't surprise me honestly, if you know the demographics of CE.

StealThisSheen posted...

"Little to no power" doesn't literally mean physical power. It means political power. Mutants have little to no political power, and were incredibly marginalized. That's the entire point.

Yes, many mutants had the physical power to kill a ton of people, if they wanted. Regardless of that, they had very little political power, and were refused even basic rights.

Try again.

This. Humans don't have 80 foot robots trying to capture them. No one is telling humans they shouldn't exist gor being human.

omniryu posted...

This. Humans don't have 80 foot robots trying to capture them. No one is telling humans they shouldn't exist gor being human.

Unfortunately, since I made that post, we've learned that a surprising amount of people actually support the idea of mutants having 80 foot robots chasing them, because "Some of them COULD be dangerous."

This topic got really gross real fast.

omniryu posted...

This. Humans don't have 80 foot robots trying to capture them. No one is telling humans they shouldn't exist gor being human.

No, instead people are telling humans with a certain skin tone or religious belief that they don't count as human.

Some MFers here: Yeah but what if one of them were hypothetically dangerous?

omniryu posted...

This. Humans don't have 80 foot robots trying to capture them. No one is telling humans they shouldn't exist gor being human.

Plus, in the Marvel Earth people get crazy powers all the time and are celebrated for it. Fantastic 4 went to space and came back able to knock over buildings, burn their surroundings, infiltrate places undetected, and stretch(ok, so that one's not terribly threatening on the surface level). They're considered heroes. Spider-Man get bit by a spider, and became super powerful. He's a hero, and people look down on JJJ for treating him differently.

But if for example you're just a random person who inherited a specific gene, or otherwise known as being born different, then you're hated. Their whole world looks down on them and treats them poorly just for how they were born. Sure, one night be to blow you up with a glance, but so could Johnny Storm.