Board 8 > So what's the consensus on FF7 Remake and Rebirth

(+) Yeah! (+)

And where does they stack among the great RPGs?

Remake is excellent and Rebirth is mid.

This is absolutely the majority opinion, and I am sure nobody will come in here after me to contradict it, so case closed. Feel free to lock the topic!

Remake was 10/10

Then Rebirth came out and was 12/10 so Remake is 8/10 now.

Remake sucked so no one bothered to play Rebirth

this is the consensus everyone who says otherwise is trolling so feel free to ignore them

So many varying opinions

skullbone posted...

Remake was 10/10

Then Rebirth came out and was 12/10 so Remake is 8/10 now.

This but I haven't beat it yet so I'll come back next week to say how much the game sucks

Rebirth 35663386/10

Remake a more conservative 78876/10

Remake 9.5/10

Rebirth 10/10

Both ultra good games.

You could just look at metacritic though and ignore the minority haters.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/36989aba.png

And for Rebirth
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4c0a19a2.png

So yeah, Rebirth is really damn good. :)

Remake 8/10
Rebirth 10/10

Imo

Do character levels, etc. carry over between games or how does that work?

If you beat Remake you get a specific summon.

If you beat Intergrade you get another specific summon.

That's it. Nothing else carries over or transfers. Everything basically resets.

Moonroof posted...

So many varying opinions

Like it or not, this is the consensus

Remake is crazy good, near flawless experience.

Rebirth has a ton more Content so it's objectively better. It really makes you press buttons on a video game controller for many Hours.

Zigzagoon posted...

You could just look at metacritic though and ignore the minority haters.

This is true, which means you should skip both of these games and just play FF12, the best FF ever made

Sephiroth: IT IS YOUR DESTINY TO DEFY YOUR FATE

Cloud: anime grunt

FF fans who were always gonna love it no matter what: 10/10

Some of the greatest action RPGs of all time, Rebirth improves the battle system even more at the cost of bloat. Ultimately I think Remake is a tighter, better experience overall, but Rebirth is a great time with a lot of charm that can justify the filler if you just want to vibe in the FF7 world. They're not flawless but still both 5 star games imo

The metacritic summaries probably represent the consensus as fairly as you're gonna get, but it's worth noting that a decent chunk of the reason Rebirth is higher is because its combat system is substantially fleshed out, it has much bigger (beautiful) environments with a lot of typical "AAA" open world elements, and it's packed full of mini-games. It also has a *lot* more content - it's probably 3x the size of the Remake. If you're really just here for the story and characters (and less so the world/locations), and you don't really value the additions and expansions to the combat system*, then I could see why you might prefer Remake.

For me, Remake is a solid game, and Rebirth is the best game Square has made since the early 00s and the first time since I've felt like they're taking me on a grand adventure like the PSX FFs did. I kept thinking "this is amazing but why wasn't I playing it 15 years ago?" as I played. Both games have insanely good OSTs (two of the best I've ever listened to).

*It also generally moves the combat a step towards action and away from slower, positioning based play. Which again is probably a popular move in general but not one I personally liked. Remake had better bosses IMO.

Id argue rebirths user score is higher because it has 6,000 less votes than remake, because a bunch of us 90s FF fans peaced out when we realized this was more catered towards the 2000s kingdom hearts / advent children fans

also the best FF since the 00s already happened and it was called Shadowbringers

TomNook7 posted...

Id argue rebirths user score is higher because it has 6,000 less votes than remake, because a bunch of us 90s FF fans peaced out when we realized this was more catered towards the 2000s kingdom hearts / advent children fans

also the best FF since the 00s already happened and it was called Shadowbringers

You say this as if ff14's flavor of anime bullshit isn't also directly catered to fans of 2000s squeenix melodrama

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

You say this as if ff14's flavor of anime bullshit isn't also directly catered to fans of 2000s squeenix melodrama

Strong disagree. FF14s world and lore is always grounded in rules, even when it goes crazy. And the writing is strong enough that the characters always feel human

FF7Rs rules are seemingly just made up as they go, and the characters were probably always anime cliches, but doubling down on cliche makes them feel really hard to relate to imo

Anyone just want to spoil me on what Rebirth changed from the original story?

Remake is Arkham Asylum.
Rebirth is Arkham City.

Both are great and the haters are weak.

I hit post without finishing lol: but like i dunno man, FF14 feels like its more for an adult audience with mature themes, etc, and thats what I kinda crave at this age. We have Disco Elysium now, so I want some real, relatable characters with good writing and stories that are more grounded. And theres plenty of Japanese RPGs with believable characters and worlds that dont go off the deep end like Infinite Wealth or Fromsouls. Even FF16 to an extent.

Theres just this huge disconnect in my mind whenever I see FF7R characters so much as speak, and I wish i could get over it, but whew i just cant

I get not wanting to deal with MMO bullshit and that's completely valid, but comparing the story and writing of Remake/Rebirth to something like Shadowbringers is a Coughing Baby vs Hydrogen Bomb situation. It's not even close. Some of the stuff in both R's is literally embarrassing to listen to.

Murphiroth posted...

Remake is Arkham Asylum.
Rebirth is Arkham City.

Both are great and the haters are weak.

.......This is the most apt comparison I can imagine, right down to how I feel about them.

This means R3 is going to basically be the same thing as Rebirth but worse, damn. At least you'll be able to crash into all the enemies with you Desert Buggy to avoid fights in the open world.

TomNook7 posted...

Strong disagree. FF14s world and lore is always grounded in rules, even when it goes crazy. And the writing is strong enough that the characters always feel human

Then why are the only friends I know who play that game the most weaboo people I've ever met and who play as the sexiest bunnygirl character?

Murphiroth posted...

Remake is Arkham Asylum.
Rebirth is Arkham City.

Both are great and the haters are weak.

100% analogy

Although Rebirth has about 20x more filler than Arkham City

foolm0r0n posted...

Then why are the only friends I know who play that game the most weaboo people I've ever met and who play as the sexiest bunnygirl character?

You should instead ask yourself how many people playing any other FF would be making themselves a sexy bunny if they were able to make a custom character.

The truth comes out when given the tools.

I definitely would which is why I need to abstain from that game

There's huge thematic and tonal overlap between Kingdom Hearts and FF7R, but also FF14/16, and even Like A Dragon. They are all MUCH closer to KH than they are to Disco Elysium or FromSoft. I think you're mostly just reacting to content and writing quality, as well as cutscene style and direction - FF7R scenes look very similar to KH and those other games do not, probably because Nomura himself is around. But Ichiban Kasuga is what happens if you put a character like Sora into an M-rated crime drama. He is a guy that is literally all about the power of friendship and inherently trusting in the goodness in people to the point of stupidity, and that somehow becomes a strength. Clive metaphysically fights his own inner darkness and comes out of it as a good person who loves his friends and dog. Kingdom Hearts ass motherfucker, if Sora could say fuck he'd act like this. Like, honestly the biggest difference to me between Nomura's team and Yoshi-P's is that the latter are obviously really into Game of Thrones and the dialogue style reflects that.

Overall I agree there's a wider net being cast for the audience, but if you look at the fandoms there's surprisingly big overlap for a reason. And I also agree there's more juice in the writing than in KH, but FF7R also has that juice because so did the original. It's just a lot more interested in meta-reflecting on itself and being much more blatant about it.

OK, but Shadowbringers and Endwalker aren't like FF16. Heavenward is like 16. The former are written by Ishikawa and are completely their own beasts. There's definitely still some power of emotions stuff in there of course, but it's a completely different vibe from something like KH, Ishikawa's stuff DEFINITELY does not play off anything resembling Game of Thrones adoration.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

OK, but Shadowbringers and Endwalker aren't like FF16. Heavenward is like 16. The former are written by Ishikawa and are completely their own beasts. There's definitely still some power of emotions stuff in there of course, but it's a completely different vibe from something like KH, Ishikawa's stuff DEFINITELY does not play off anything resembling Game of Thrones adoration.

Yeah I'd agree. The KH influence is way, way more blatant in the recent expansions. The Ascians are cribbing heavily from Organization XIII and by the time Endwalker introduces a new type of magic that is actively fueled by emotion you are neck deep into some bullshit.

And guess what, it's a massive improvement over the GoT stuff, and I love Heavensward! But especially Stormblood which is trying to tackle heavier topics and imo largely not good at it? To me the stories of 14 and 16 demonstrate that those writing teams are actively worse when they're writing mature themes and really excel at character drama.

I guess my point is the vibe is different but the bones are the same. It's fine to not like the vibes.

FF14 having one of the best localizations of all time definitely helps a lot.

I won't pretend delivery is a huge factor here.

I think a lot of the most important dub VAs for the R games aren't very good, especially Cloud (they hired inexperienced VAs with small resumes for him, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth specifically to make sure they sounded unique, and to me that really shows), and the KH voice acting is pretty hilariously awful in general.

Meanwhile XIV lines are being delivered by literal professional theater actors.

So yeah, would I have as high an appreciation for the ShB and EW scripts if they were the same quality voice direction as Rebirth? Probably not. I do think we're working with a much stronger baseline here in general though, voice acting aside it's a much, much higher bar they've set.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

especially Cloud

Cloud is the best VA from those games so I can't agree with your premise.

Rebirth got rid of the anime grunts, by the way. I don't remember a single one.

KamikazePotato posted...

Cloud is the best VA from those games so I can't agree with your premise.

I disagree strongly but to each their own!

skullbone posted...

Rebirth got rid of the anime grunts, by the way. I don't remember a single one.

They DEFINITELY saw that 80 minute long compilation video and course corrected, lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Academy_Games_Award_for_Performer_in_a_Leading_Role

His VA got a BAFTA nomination that year! Not exactly an objective standard, but still. Cloud's VA does a very good job at sounding like the kind of character Cloud is supposed to be. He isn't as overly animated as the more passionate characters, but he shouldn't be.

Cloud's VA is awesome he just sucks ass (common problem with FF characters)

KamikazePotato posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Academy_Games_Award_for_Performer_in_a_Leading_Role

His VA got a BAFTA nomination that year! Not exactly an objective standard, but still. Cloud's VA does a very good job at sounding like the kind of character Cloud is supposed to be. He isn't as overly animated as the more passionate characters, but he shouldn't be.

Maybe I just don't like the character Cloud is supposed to be then.

What stands out to me most is the major scene at the end of chapter 9 (no spoilers). He was delivering those lines in what was supposed to be a shocking scene and I just realized "wow this is doing absolutely nothing for me at ALL".

KamikazePotato posted...

FF14 having one of the best localizations of all time definitely helps a lot.

To be fair to 7R, it also has an extremely good localization, it's just leaning more into the familiar "anime" cliches. Versus Koji-Fox's localization style which no matter what is going on never drops the western European fantasy affect even when he's shitposting (THAL'S BALLS). Genuinely I think FF7R is peak for what it's going for, to me the stereotypical bad/mid JRPG localizations dont look like this, they look like early Genshin Impact (and frankly current Genshin whenever it's filler time)

I don't think the VA work here is balanced, though. All the other major VAs outside of those 4 they used newbies on (and some of them being long time actual actors does not change the fact that thay're amateur VAs) are longtime anime and video games VAs with very extensive resumes.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

To be fair to 7R, it also has an extremely good localization, it's just leaning more into the familiar "anime" cliches

I think this is obvious and it's weird people don't realize it. Maybe they think the original 7 isn't anime nonsense itself?

(to ltm) I mean frankly for me that just speaks to how good the direction must be. Of the four you call out, I don't love Cloud and Seph's voices but they are supposed to sound like awkward freaks, Tifa is supposed to sound hesitant and unconfident despite her strengths, and Aerith's VA is doing a great job of humanizing and grounding the character.

If I have any complaints it's mostly in the forced really video gamey stuff like how characters make up lyrics to in-game music or the after-battle quotes that get repeated especially in the first game.

And uh...maybe Red XIII...I can see and respect the vision here but I'm torn on the execution

To me, Aerith's VA is doing a good job of sounding like she's breathing out constantly during every line of dialogue.

Tifa never sounds like she's actually talking to anyone or reacting to anything, she's at the exact same voice level the whole time.

All 3 of the are so restrained. It's like they're recording in a studio where someone else is recording next door, and they're scared someone is going to overhear them. Get loud! Let your voice crack if the scene calls for it! Emote!

Maybe it's just not for me. The difference between the trio and how good the rest of the party is just sounds night and day to me.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

All 3 of the are so restrained. It's like they're recording in a studio where someone else is recording next door, and they're scared someone is going to overhear them. Get loud! Let your voice crack if the scene calls for it! Emote!

I mean not everything needs to be anime overacting. Can you imagine how much worse FF14 would be if they went that route? I like how Cloud and Tifa sound more like normal people (Sephiroth I'm mixed on).

Still not as good as ff8

Honestly Sephiroth is a tough one because I doubt the voice directors are giving the actor any context for the nonsense he's spouting most of the time.

KamikazePotato posted...

I mean not everything needs to be anime overacting. Can you imagine how much worse FF14 would be if they went that route? I like how Cloud and Tifa sound more like normal people (Sephiroth I'm mixed on).

But they DO go that route in FFXIV! It's just through the lens of a different vocal aesthetic (is that a phrase, huh??). You really think Emet isn't hamming it the hell up? That Fandaniel isn't having an absolute blast? These actors have TONS of passion on their performance that I just do not get from VIIR.

Also I need to offer a correction on myself since you mentioned it, because I think Sephiroth is DEFINITELY worse than Cloud.

See I thought Fandaniel's VA was sub-par when he overacted though. He sounded best during the more subtle moments. Emet hammed it up but he hammed it up without screaming his head off, his performance did a remarkable job at expressing pent-up emotion.

When you talk about voice actors needing to get loud or let their voice crack, the first thing my mind goes to is Zenitsu from Demon Slayer. It's the opposite end of the extreme but that was when I firmly decided that more emotion is not always a good thing lol.