Current Events > So in Metal Gear Solid, why did they intentionally fuck up one? *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Putting aside it not being how genes work, why did they intentionally make one inferior clone and one superior one? I don't remember anything saying they had to have an inferior one for a superior one. And why do it at all? You could just make proper clones like Solidus.

Remember the movie Twins, with Arnold Schwarzennegger and Danny Devito? Similar mistake. Difference being, the MGS villains are dicks, and decided to do a social experiment on them.

Because even as a baby, Liquid had a stupid smug face and everyone was all "fuck that guy."

they wanted to create a godlike soldier, superior to Big Boss, so they used the twins to take everything "superior" about his genes to dump into one of them.

but iirc, it was considered a failed project.

they also found they can create superior soldiers by either putting them in the right scenarios (MGS2) and/or through hypnotization (MGS5).

Iirc Liquid was all of BB's dominant genes and Solid was all of BB's recessive genes, while Solidus was the perfect combination of both. Just cuz. It's nonsense but it's fun and cool so it works.

I think they purposefully got the science wrong because there is no inferior or superior clone.

Solid beats Liquid in a Hind d Helicopter while Solid is on foot, beat Liquid in a Metal Gear on foot after being tortured, beat Liquid in a fist fight, and finally the last fight we don't know because foxdie ends it prematurely.

Liquid can take a beating but so can Solid.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Iirc Liquid was all of BB's dominant genes and Solid was all of BB's recessive genes, while Solidus was the perfect combination of both. Just cuz. It's nonsense but it's fun and cool so it works.

irrc Liquid had the recessive genes and therefore thought he was the inferior clone, even though he was thought to be the superior by the ones conducting the experiment.

Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I think Big Boss is the one who told Liquid he was the inferior one. Cuz he's an asshole.

Chrknu posted...

irrc Liquid had the recessive genes and therefore thought he was the inferior clone, even though he was thought to be the superior by the ones conducting the experiment.

Liquid had the dominant genes but was told he had the recessive genes.

Chrknu posted...

irrc Liquid had the recessive genes and therefore thought he was the inferior clone, even though he was thought to be the superior by the ones conducting the experiment.

Pretty sure he was lied to about being the inferior clone in order to fuel his desire to be stronger than Solid.

The thing with Kojima is he makes a couple good predictions but jams a ton of schlock, pseudoscience, and women with tortured pasts who don't like clothes in there too. Everyone tends to ignore the latter and focus on the correct predictions and call him a genius. I find it's best to just play the games and enjoy them rather than try to think super hard about the story.

pegusus123456 posted...

Maybe I'm misremembering it, but I think Big Boss is the one who told Liquid he was the inferior one. Cuz he's an asshole.

*MGSV spoilers* the events of the game make me wonder if he even ever met the original Big Boss

I've always thought they did the dominant vs recessive thing to see which of the traits actually created a better soldier? (Still kinda stupid)

I think that was mentioned in twin snake and it always made sense to me.

Trelve posted...

Liquid had the dominant genes but was told he had the recessive genes.

Where was this stated? I only played the numbered games, so might have missed it.

Chrknu posted...

Where was this stated? I only played the numbered games, so might have missed it.

In MGS1's post credit, Ocelot mentions that the "inferior one won after all."

Though me googling the question ITT had me learn that some people think that Liquid was actually the recessive clone, he just didn't consider the possibility that the recessive genes were the better ones.

pegusus123456 posted...

In MGS1's post credit, Ocelot mentions that the "inferior one won after all."

Though me googling the question ITT had me learn that some people think that Liquid was actually the recessive clone, he just didn't consider the possibility that the recessive genes were the better ones.

That was my analysis also. That the dominant and recessive genes didnt mean superior and inferior.

I dont know where its stated that Solid didnt really have the dominant genes, only that Liquid thought he was inferior because he had the recessive genes.

I always thought Liquid Snake thought Solid Snake had dominant genes cause of his career since he did kill big boss twice.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Pretty sure he was lied to about being the inferior clone in order to fuel his desire to be stronger than Solid.

Liquid was such a a whiny bitch about it that he deserved it.

It is all a big experiment to create the ultimate soldier.

Brother!

Ask Koko Watchout, he knows.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/86e3c82d.png

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/2db775a1.jpg

Liquid was going to win

pegusus123456 posted...

So in Metal Gear Solid, why did they...

Because Kojima writes what he thinks is cool, then does mental gymnastics to try and justify it narratively. He tackles like one big serious concept per game, then everything else is just rule of cool.

Nanomachines.

Japanties posted...

Because Kojima writes what he thinks is cool, then does mental gymnastics to try and justify it narratively. He tackles like one big serious concept per game, then everything else is just rule of cool.

Kojima is also a huge American movie fan, so a lot of the stuff in his games was in a movie at one time. Also, since Hollywood loves to make movies based on crazy conspiracy theories, his games reflect that. But since it's from a Japanese perspective, that craziness is pushed to the max.

pegusus123456 posted...

Putting aside it not being how genes work, why did they intentionally make one inferior clone and one superior one? I don't remember anything saying they had to have an inferior one for a superior one. And why do it at all? You could just make proper clones like Solidus.

The idea was to isolate all of the bad genes and put them in one clone, leaving all the superior genes for the other clone, making that second clone an even better soldier than Big Boss. It didn't work because Solid Snake's experience as a soldier was a much bigger factor than Liquid's genes. In other words, soldier memes > soldier genes.

The thing with Kojima is he makes a couple good predictions

The thing with Kojima's predictions is that they're not really predictions, he's just describing things that are already happening, but not many people know about them until 10 years later. Like MGS2's "predictions" for the internet are really just descriptions of the internet in the 90's. But the internet really wasn't that popular in the 90's, compared to now when everyone has smartphones.

I don't know about you guys but if I hear the phrase "vocal cord parasites" one more fucking time...

Complete aside but they also fucked up the Navajo.

Bilagana is a four syllable word.

Liquid had the dominant genes. Demonstrated by him having dark hair that got bleached by living out in the desert sun all of his youth.

Solid had the recessive genes. Demonstrated by him having blonde hair in the briefing tapes. He asks for hair dye so he doesn't get confused for Liquid.

The game is about nature/nurture. Liquid was genetically superior, hence why he survives fucking everything but FoxDie, but he was always told he was a little bitch. This meant he could never embrace his gifts and maintained a victim complex which held him back.

Solid however had no personal ambitions and he always went along with what others recommended. He was put in situations repeatedly that he wasn't prepared for and he always barely scraped through. This cemented his resolve and self-belief and allowed him to shake off others' expectations. This lead to him growing beyond what people thought possible.

Be a slave to destiny or learn to be your own man.

gasgpmo posted...

The thing with Kojima's predictions is that they're not really predictions, he's just describing things that are already happening, but not many people know about them until 10 years later. Like MGS2's "predictions" for the internet are really just descriptions of the internet in the 90's. But the internet really wasn't that popular in the 90's, compared to now when everyone has smartphones.

Also to add to this, how Emma was talking about changing the alphabet that as happened so many times. But people just don't think about it.

They didn't purposely try to make an inferior clone, the hereditary genes being passed on are all random and someone had to have the "recessive" traits. It's just like in real life some people are born with undesired traits and some blessed with great genetics.

Cause they shared a womb and for one to receive all of the superior genetics, one needed to receive the inferior genetics. But Big Boss has no inferior genetics but he does contain the unstoppable super soldier genetics. So both came out good anyways.

Seaman_Prime posted...

Cause they shared a womb and for one to receive all of the superior genetics, one needed to receive the inferior genetics. But Big Boss has no inferior genetics but he does contain the unstoppable super soldier genetics. So both came out good anyways.

"my grandfather's genome HAS no pathetic genes, Kaiba"

DrizztLink posted...

"my grandfather's genome HAS no pathetic genes, Kaiba"

Im glad someone caught that immediately lol

crayola555 posted...

They didn't purposely try to make an inferior clone

They did, though. The fact that Snake and Liquid are not 100% genetically identical to Big Boss is even a plot point in MGS4. It's even used to explain why FoxDie killed Liquid but not Snake. And then you have Solidus, who actually is supposed to be 100% identical.

Seaman_Prime posted...

But Big Boss has no inferior genetics but he does contain the unstoppable super soldier genetics. So both came out good anyways.

Big Boss: "But I'm a genetic freak, and I'm not normal!"