Current Events > James Gunn's thoughts on Batman 89

(+) Yeah! (+)

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I draw the line at the iconic Danny Elfman score. Everything else I can shrug at but that part is just wrong.

It's flawed, but come on. It's wonderfully weird and Jack is still the best live action Joker. He's just hatin.

I'm not crazy about it, but it's not THAT bad.

Hopefully that's not the real him because it'd be embarrassing to call that movie boring

Wow James Gunn is a bit of a dick.

The movie really doesn't hold up, though. It looks so cheaply made

I'll be honest, I don't really disagree (except for the Danny Elfman score). The film is pretty dull, and while Jack Nicholson is, himself, great, his joker was nothing special. Most jokers feel unique and twisted in their own special way; his was a generic mob boss with maybe a couple jokes, and a catchphrase that could have made him one of the Wet Bandits.

The best part about the movie was that it inspired the Animated Series, which is incredible

Nerds are gonna lose their minds over this lmao.

I dont hate the Burton Batman movies but I never thought they were absolute amazing works of art! that a lot of people seem to see them.

Big disagree about the soundtrack though.

That doesn't seem like the real him. He loves to speak his mind but I've never seen him that outwardly disrespectful of something. That said, it's right. It's a pretty weak movie only held up because there was nothing else like it at the time, and now, pure nostalgia.

SAlYAN posted...

I'll be honest, I don't really disagree (except for the Danny Elfman score). The film is pretty dull, and while Jack Nicholson is, himself, great, his joker was nothing special. Most jokers feel unique and twisted in their own special way; his was a generic mob boss with maybe a couple jokes, and a catchphrase that could have made him one of the Wet Bandits.

The Joker in the movie was certainly hard carried by Nicholson being really good in the role.

Don't know what Gunn is thinking about with the score though, it is simply great.

Looked into this a little and wow, were still harping on random comments this guy made over a decade ago?

If that's a real post, then Gunn's showing his ass for attention. The movie isn't nearly as bad as he's selling it to be, and Elfman's Batman theme is the second greatest superhero track in cinema history.

The only thing I fully agree on is the Joker being the killer of Bruce's parents. Obviously that was incredibly stupid. I enjoyed it otherwise though.

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

The only thing I fully agree on is the Joker being the killer of Bruce's parents. Obviously that was incredibly stupid. I enjoyed it otherwise though.

It really is dumb. Its bad world building that makes it look like everything in the world revolves around the main characters.

Euripides posted...

The movie really doesn't hold up, though. It looks so cheaply made

This, the movie is insanely boring

What even prompted this? He just woke up one morning and was like "I feel like taking a steamy shit on Batman 89 today."

I agree with some parts, disagree with others, etc., but I'm pretty much ok with his take so long as it helps inform a good Batman movie made on his watch.

I didn't read the thing but I wasn't the biggest fan of it.

Tim Burton and Batman could have worked, maybe. But the theatrically artsy part of the director's style didn't work for the villain at all. Maybe if they had chosen like the Mad Hatter or somebody it might have turned out better. Joker is supposed to be loud and funny instead of dramatic and contemplative.

I'm also not a fan of all the henchman killing that goes on, though I've heard Batman's no kill rule was not as strict at the time as it is today, or even didn't exist at all. I don't really remember because I didn't really get into Baan until Begins. So that would be more like an aging issue.

Still, they did largely nail the look. Yellow symbol Batman is best Batman. The winged Batmobile is sick. Gotham actually looks right, etc.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

I didn't read the thing but I wasn't the biggest fan of it.

Tim Burton and Batman could have worked, maybe. But the theatrically artsy part of the director's style didn't work for the villain at all. Maybe if they had chosen like the Mad Hatter or somebody it might have turned out better. Joker is supposed to be loud and funny instead of dramatic and contemplative.

Don't you remember the scene where the joker says you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses would you? Puts on glasses and gets punched. Throws mechanical toy teeth on the ground after getting punched in the mouth. Doesn't get more joker than that.

Where does he get such wonderful toys?

yeah batman 89 sucks. its unwatchably boring to me

he's dead wrong about the theme tho

I don't disagree with too much of what he said, but even if everything he says is true, how could it still possibly be worse than Burton's Planet of the Apes?

trappedunderice posted...

Don't you remember the scene where the joker says you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses would you? Puts on glasses and gets punched. Throws mechanical toy teeth on the ground after getting punched in the mouth. Doesn't get more joker than that.

I don't, actually. I've only seen it once and it was a long time ago. So, maybe things are better than I remember.

The parts I do remember are the dance with the devil quote, the actual dancing at the top of the tower, the cartoonishly large handgun (which, to be fair, actually is one of my favorite Joker gags), the painting scene and just generally wondering why he's so quiet all the time if he's supposed to be the Joker.

I don't disagree with any of the criticisms coming from the likes of Gunn and Kevin Smith. That said, I've always loved Batman 89, and Batman Returns is my personal favorite Batman film.

Awful opinion. Jack Nicholson is the best Joker to date and the movie definitely embraces its campiness. That's Burton's entire shtick

No way that's real.

Literally one of the most iconic themes ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZAk2rfESU

I've always been enamored by epic themes like this that basically encapsulate an entire film or series. There's so many literal iconic themes that the moment you hear your brain instantly goes back to it.

I actually loved when Batman had to turn his whole chest because of the neck stiffness in the costume, it made him look way more intimidating - like a moving statue.

The theme tune, the aesthetic of Gotham, Keaton himself were all amazing too and it still has the best Batmobile! I do understand a lot of Gunn's points though, it's not a Batman movie crafted with particular care to the character's core as far as the source material goes so as an adaption it's somewhat of a failure (how some things never change...) but it was still a very interesting and pretty well executed mash-up of the Adam West series and the more modern comics. And that version of the Joker has never really done anything for me, though at least it wasn't offensive like Snyder's attempt.

That said it's a pretty hot take and depending on how his Superman movie turns out, might end up being a bad look too.

This is literally from over 11 years ago when he was replying to movie takes from people on Facebook.

It's the only Batman film I liked.

Best Batmobile too.

Hes trying to make the Snyder movies seem less bad by comparison. Its not going to work because those movies are dog shit.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

Hes trying to make the Snyder movies seem less bad by comparison. Its not going to work because those movies are dog shit.

He said this before the Snyder movies even existed.

SAlYAN posted...

I'll be honest, I don't really disagree (except for the Danny Elfman score). The film is pretty dull, and while Jack Nicholson is, himself, great, his joker was nothing special. Most jokers feel unique and twisted in their own special way; his was a generic mob boss with maybe a couple jokes, and a catchphrase that could have made him one of the Wet Bandits.

The best part about the movie was that it inspired the Animated Series, which is incredible

Even that accomplishment is shared with Batman Returns

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Tim Burton and Batman could have worked, maybe. But the theatrically artsy part of the director's style didn't work for the villain at all. Maybe if they had chosen like the Mad Hatter or somebody it might have turned out better. Joker is supposed to be loud and funny instead of dramatic and contemplative.

Nicolson's Joker:

• dances around like an idiot while killing his former boss
• destroys a tv with an extendable boxing glove
• proclaims "this town needs an enema!" and punctuates it with a party horn
• kills a rival gang leader with an electric hand buzzer while singing 'Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight"
• films a goofy commercial promoting his new toxin that kills people with laughter
• "Never rub another man's rhubarb!"
• draws and fires a pistol with a comically-oversized barrel, staggers backward like a buffoon
• "We're Beauty and the Beast...but if anyone else calls you Beast, I'll rip their lungs out."
• drops a pair of bloody chattering teeth after getting punched
• "You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, would you?"
• Stuffs laughing bags in his coat just to freak people out after he dies
• Is all-around loud and funny for the vast majority of his screentime

I know you said you only watched the movie once, but c'mon dude; I only watched 2001: A Space Odyssey once, but I didn't misremember HAL9000 as a kind and benevolent AI companion who pulls harmless pranks on our hero.

masterpug53 posted...

Nicolson's Joker:
* dances around like an idiot while killing his former boss
* destroys a tv with an extendable boxing glove
* proclaims "this town needs an enema!" and punctuates it with a party horn
* kills a rival gang leader with an electric hand buzzer while singing 'Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight"
* films a goofy commercial promoting his new toxin that kills people with laughter
* "Never rub another man's rhubarb!"
* draws and fires a pistol with a comically-oversized barrel, staggers backward like a buffoon
* "We're Beauty and the Beast...but if anyone else calls you Beast, I'll rip their lungs out."
* drops a pair of bloody chattering teeth after getting punched
* "You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, would you?"
* Stuffs laughing bags in his coat just to freak people out after he dies
* Is all-around loud and funny for the vast majority of his screentime
I know you said you only watched the movie once, but c'mon dude; I only watched 2001: A Space Odyssey once, but I didn't misremember HAL9000 as a kind and benevolent AI companion who pulls harmless pranks on our hero.

The parade scene where he dances around on a float to Prince music too.

I think you have to put the film in its proper context. In 1989, when most people thought of Batman, they thought of the 1960s campy Adam West version. This Batman was the first one to bring a darker (comparatively) tone to the series and did it quite successfully. It was also one of the first big summer blockbusters that had huge merchandise tie-ins (games, books, toys, etc), and made a big splash within the culture. Everyone was wearing batman shirts, consuming batman media, the stuff was everywhere! There had never been anything like it except for maybe Star Wars.

It is campy and the sets feel 2-dimensional, like comic book panels or stage sets. If you were 9 years old in 1989 you probably thought this was one of the coolest movies ever when it came out because that's who it appealed to.

Stated better by the post above me.

Bubbagump posted...

I think you have to put the film in its proper context. In 1989, when most people thought of Batman, they thought of the 1960s campy Adam West version. This Batman was the first one to bring a darker (comparatively) tone to the series and did it quite successfully. It was also one of the first big summer blockbusters that had huge merchandise tie-ins (games, books, toys, etc), and made a big splash within the culture. Everyone was wearing batman shirts, consuming batman media, the stuff was everywhere! There had never been anything like it except for maybe Star Wars.

It definitely was. While Superman 78 was the first big superhero movie, the cultural impact that Batman 89 had was unparalleled, and it is arguably considered the movie that broke barriers and allowed all successive comic book media with complex storylines or characters, be it tv show or movie, to exist in some shape or form. Batman was almost considered a goofball before this movie, on an Aquaman level, due to stuff like the Adam West show and Superfriends.

He's definitely wrong about the soundtrack but the movie kinda sucks tbh. It's just that Batman Returns is so bad that it makes Batman look good by comparison.

Fucking ROASTED

Both the musical score AND Prince's soundtrack are killer for this movie.

Trust and Partyman are perfect songs for Joker!

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

I didn't read the thing but I wasn't the biggest fan of it.

Tim Burton and Batman could have worked, maybe. But the theatrically artsy part of the director's style didn't work for the villain at all. Maybe if they had chosen like the Mad Hatter or somebody it might have turned out better. Joker is supposed to be loud and funny instead of dramatic and contemplative.

I'm also not a fan of all the henchman killing that goes on, though I've heard Batman's no kill rule was not as strict at the time as it is today, or even didn't exist at all. I don't really remember because I didn't really get into Baan until Begins. So that would be more like an aging issue.

Still, they did largely nail the look. Yellow symbol Batman is best Batman. The winged Batmobile is sick. Gotham actually looks right, etc.

89 Gotham looks like a fake city. It's why I like the Bale Gotham. 89 Gotham borrows alot from the 40's and 50's being set then might work better.

Lots of stupid comments there, especially his attacking the superb soundtrack. And if he thinks it was pretending not to be campy, he doesn't understand Tim Burton, especially during that time... the campiness was intentional. It was there in Peewee, in Beetlejuice, in Edward Scissorhands, and in the sequel to this film, where there's an army of missile launching penguins marching through Gotham.

Bubbagump posted...

I think you have to put the film in its proper context. In 1989, when most people thought of Batman, they thought of the 1960s campy Adam West version. This Batman was the first one to bring a darker (comparatively) tone to the series and did it quite successfully. It was also one of the first big summer blockbusters that had huge merchandise tie-ins (games, books, toys, etc), and made a big splash within the culture. Everyone was wearing batman shirts, consuming batman media, the stuff was everywhere! There had never been anything like it except for maybe Star Wars.

Also this... even with the campiness, it was a very dark movie for the time, especially for a comic book. It was the 1980's and entertainment and pop culture were very different from what we know now. Cesar Romero was the only Joker anyone even knew before this and a Joker who killed was not known to the general public... only comic book fans even knew of the darker Joker.

Bubbagump posted...

I think you have to put the film in its proper context. In 1989, when most people thought of Batman, they thought of the 1960s campy Adam West version. This Batman was the first one to bring a darker (comparatively) tone to the series and did it quite successfully. It was also one of the first big summer blockbusters that had huge merchandise tie-ins (games, books, toys, etc), and made a big splash within the culture. Everyone was wearing batman shirts, consuming batman media, the stuff was everywhere! There had never been anything like it except for maybe Star Wars.

It opens my eyes to hear this. Yeah, Batman's costume was too thick and bulky. I may even argue the TAS iteration of the theme song was better. But in the end, the movie succeeded where it counts by completely rejuvenating the character's image.

I saw it and the other Batman movies from that time about a year or two ago and...he's not really wrong. Maybe a little harsh, because it's still better than the others, especially the Val Kilmer one, but it's a pretty bad movie.

Returns was better and Forever is underrated

Serious_Cat posted...

The parade scene where he dances around on a float to Prince music too.

The Boombox playing Prince scene in the art gallery is funnier.