Current Events > I see what people mean by Toxic masculinity

(+) Yeah! (+)

Discipline
Hard work
strength
Will power

A lot of these end up making men turn into rigid, harsh and unlikable people even if they make good providers and protectors

none of those are traits of toxic masculinity

That's not really what it means, though. It's not the concept of working hard, but the expectation that men should hide/"suck up" their feelings and act as tough as possible. The expectation of physical violence is another part of it, where you're expected to "fight back" if someone says something you don't like.

There's a lot to it, but none of it relates to having a decent work ethic. You can be a hard worker and still have a healthy relationship with your own feelings.

Yep, thats exactly what they mean

it doesnt have anything to do with the Britney Spears song toxic whatsoever

notsureifsrs

TC is prob one of those people who swear there's no such thing as toxic masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is carrying all the groceries in in one trip

You are confused, tc

I am not a fan of the term , but I never in my life seen it used for those things.

Pretty sure this is a gag.

toxic masculinity is when you don't like kesha

Toxic masculinity is shit like in high school for some reason nutshots and bang kok was popular in the locker rooms. Or like, if you don't like girls you're a f*****.

masculinity that isn't toxic:

playing catch with your son in the back yard.

Irony posted...

Toxic masculinity is carrying all the groceries in in one trip

the most difficult thing in my life was to stop doing this

argonautweakend posted...

Toxic masculinity is shit like in high school for some reason nutshots and bang kok was popular in the locker rooms. Or like, if you don't like girls you're a f*****.

masculinity that isn't toxic:

playing catch with your son in the back yard.

none of this is right either

deathproof12 posted...

Discipline
Hard work
strength
Will power

None of those things have anything to do with toxic masculinity.

You're being pass-agg about the issue.

okay so...

take it further.

why do only dads and boys get to throw the ball?

gender equality is about not gendering activities like that, so in this sense, I totally understand what you mean and agree with your point.

so, like, one should be free to "cooled out" by the history of warfare and violence (boy stuff) and also like taylor swift, high fashion, and sylvia plath (girl stuff).

anyway my kesha answer is a joke but it's also serious. kesha's great, fun or serious, likes partying, etc. nothing to not like about kesha.

toxic masculinity does these:
-slut shame (more than anything)
-homophobia
-misogyny (hates women, anything femme)
-double standards for men and women
-if there is sex involved it's gonna be weird and angry (see #1)
-hyper-gender everything (women like book club, men like sports)

toxic feminity is basically just the same thing. it's not hard to see that something like the modern TERF is really going to thrive in a misogynistic patriarchy.

we could think about the opposite to these also, but they are much more benign. Maybe something like a friend criticizing someone for studying about a war or something, or getting mad that someone gave their kid a water pistol or army men or w/e. "neo liberal fascists" but these arent as big of a thing right now.

I'm getting the vague sense your horny bookmarks have some weird things in them about angry men. Not that you're wrong, but there's a specifically sexual focus in your post.

Robot2600 posted...

toxic masculinity does these:
-slut shame (more than anything)
-homophobia
-misogyny (hates women, anything femme)
-double standards for men and women
-if there is sex involved it's gonna be weird and angry (see #1)
-hyper-gender everything (women like book club, men like sports)

See this is why I dislike those terms. Women can do all most of these things, but this is stereotyped as masculine? And at the same time we talk about broken gender roles there is no issue with assigning these shit ass traits to the masculine ? I don't understand how both things can be done at the same time .

"Not that you're wrong, but there's a specifically sexual focus in your post."

Baron_Ox posted...

the most difficult thing in my life was to stop doing this

...that isn't toxic masculinity.

Robot2600 posted...

toxic masculinity does these:
-slut shame (more than anything)
-homophobia
-misogyny (hates women, anything femme)
-double standards for men and women
-if there is sex involved it's gonna be weird and angry (see #1)
-hyper-gender everything (women like book club, men like sports)

Some of these are general human traits and not toxic masculinity traits.
Go outside.

Robot2600 posted...

why do only dads and boys get to throw the ball?

My mom has never asked me to join her at any sport. Nor does she play any either.

cjsdowg posted...

See this is why I dislike those terms. Women can do all most of these things, but this is stereotyped as masculine? And at the same time we talk about broken gender roles there is no issue with assigning these shit ass traits to the masculine ? I don't understand how both things can be done at the same time .

words are arbitrary do you really care about the terminology all of a sudden?

no one said women didn't/don't do that stuff. like, JK Rowling is one of the biggest spreaders of toxic masculinity in 2024.

i think it's called that because at it's root it just fucking hates women.

anyway i think masculine and feminine are silly terms as well. why do your positives have to come from your gender tho?

i like strength. is that a masculine or feminine trait? neither, id say. or both?

by all means let everyone be strong & beautiful, stoic & emotional. embrace the kaleidoscope of humanity.

Robot2600 posted...

anyway i think masculine and feminine are silly terms as well. why do your positives have to come from your gender tho?

Literally killing your entire argument here.

-BrokenSpiral- posted...

Some of these are general human traits and not toxic masculinity traits.
Go outside.

2 things can be true. those are all qualities of toxic masculinity and i never implied that they couldn't also be part of something else. nor did i imply the list was comprehensive and/or exclusive.

cjsdowg posted...

See this is why I dislike those terms. Women can do all most of these things, but this is stereotyped as masculine? And at the same time we talk about broken gender roles there is no issue with assigning these shit ass traits to the masculine ? I don't understand how both things can be done at the same time .

women can also be victims of toxic masculinity

"im not like other girls" is a classic example of a women engaging in toxic masculinity/femininity

Robot2600 posted...

"im not like other girls" is a classic example of a women engaging in toxic masculinity/femininity

I'd say that's narcissistic behavior more than anything else.

Can be either, depending on how they use it.

Robot2600 posted...

i think it's called that because at it's root it just fucking hates women.

Pretty sure thats the issue hes getting at. Blaming anything and everything that's bad with the world as "hating woman" or "toxic masculinity."

Essentially attaching toxicity to just and only masculinity.

Irony posted...

Toxic masculinity is carrying all the groceries in in one trip

No that's efficency

a lot of stuff that we consider to be toxic masculinity are just warped, rigid standards we apply to "gender roles".

like, as humans, our roles are fluid and interchangeable; and we can even disengage, if we want.

but there are still people who feel like, men shouldn't show vulnerability, women should stay with the kids, it's weak for men to talk things out rather than fight, etc.

cjsdowg posted...

See this is why I dislike those terms. Women can do all most of these things, but this is stereotyped as masculine? And at the same time we talk about broken gender roles there is no issue with assigning these shit ass traits to the masculine ? I don't understand how both things can be done at the same time .

women can perpetuate toxic masculinity too. it's not only guys.

just like women are often the harshest critics of other women, but there's no special term for that that I know of

cjsdowg posted...

See this is why I dislike those terms. Women can do all most of these things, but this is stereotyped as masculine? And at the same time we talk about broken gender roles there is no issue with assigning these shit ass traits to the masculine ? I don't understand how both things can be done at the same time .

Toxic masculinity is when someone has a toxic definition of masculinity. That list is hitting on what a toxic definition would be. Basically when someone says associates a negative trait with masculinity or gatekeeps masculinity with arbitrary standards then its a toxic definition that hurts men.

I have previously taken issue with @cjsdowg on changing the term, but honestly, adjusting words and all that stuff seems pretty deep in the wheelhouse of social adjustment, so I don't see why that couldn't change too.

No one says toxic arsenic or toxic abuse. If a thing is inherently bad then it doesnt need the added adjective. Toxic masculinity only makes sense as a term if you believe masculinity is by default not toxic.

Complaining about the term sounds disengenuous like the people that freaked out over BLM. Im not against a new term but its on the people upset with the term to come up with a new one.

Toxic masculinity is just a specific manifestation of insecurity

bfslick50 posted...

No one says toxic arsenic or toxic abuse. If a thing is inherently bad then it doesnt need the added adjective. Toxic masculinity only makes sense as a term if you believe masculinity is by default not toxic.

Complaining about the term sounds disengenuous like the people that freaked out over BLM. Im not against a new term but its on the people upset with the term to come up with a new one.

Exactly. At this point people know exactly what the term means and are being willfully ignorant.

Of note, cjsdowg is one of those that believes men are unfairly persecuted and women get away with everything.

bfslick50 posted...

Complaining about the term sounds disengenuous like the people that freaked out over BLM.

I'd argue it's just as disingenuous to act like no one should not like the term being attached to an entire wide range of things as often some do. One may say masculinity isnt inherently bad, but the issue like you said is the additive of the word, which certain people make exclusive to just masculinity. Essentially attaching toxicity to just and only masculinity for anything and everything bad that happens.

I'd also argue it's disingenuous to claim its the same as BLM.

As for a new term, people have definitely proposed a new term. One can can easily just call something just, toxic. Things both men and women do that's toxic doesn't have to be specifically dubbed masculinity all the time the moment it's toxic, with the attitude that no matter what it's only masculinity inherently pushing certain toxic things.

deathproof12 posted...

Discipline
Hard work
strength
Will power

A lot of these end up making men turn into rigid, harsh and unlikable people even if they make good providers and protectors

These are truly the only qualities that matter

I was very talkative as a kid and my mom used to tell me to shut up all the time and said only girls did that. Also said I was too skinny like a girl, often. Also said I needed to stop crying during like sad scenes in movies because that's not manly, etc. I would have still been in elementary school.

is this toxic masculinity

Ratchetrockon posted...

I was very talkative as a kid and my mom used to tell me to shut up all the time and said only girls did that. Also said I was too skinny like a girl, often. Also said I needed to stop crying during like sad scenes in movies because that's not manly, etc. I would have still been in elementary school.

is this toxic masculinity

Yes. Its a toxic definition of masculinity and it happens a lot to a lot of men. So much so thats why it became a male specific term. Women also feel extreme pressures to conform but its in a different form which is how a gender specific term evolved.

deathproof12 posted...

Discipline
Hard work
strength
Will power

Arrogant
Aggressive
Angry
Apathetic

Fixed it for you

LightningThief posted...

I'd argue it's just as disingenuous to act like no one should not like the term being attached to an entire wide range of things as often some do. One may say masculinity isnt inherently bad, but the issue like you said is the additive of the word, which certain people make exclusive to just masculinity. Essentially attaching toxicity to just and only masculinity for anything and everything bad that happens.

I'd also argue it's disingenuous to claim its the same as BLM.

Literally the exact same reply. Why are only men toxic? Why do only black lives matter?