Board 8 > Community Mafia Topic 15 - Long Form Narrative Improv (Mandatory)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Death is godfather who sent the kill
Ulti is vote stripper
??? Is bus driver

Has a big hole in it Kirby wasn't blocking Ulti again, so why wouldn't he be the one sending the kill?

Which means Death is.. Godfather Bus Driver? I mean, Knightz' role definitely set a precedent.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Hey Chang.

Who said 2 scum left first in neighbor chat? You or Ben?

I theorized 2 scum + 1 Indy eons ago at this point, but I don't remember Ben even running with that assumption

UltimaterializerX posted...

Hey Chang.

Who said 2 scum left first in neighbor chat? You or Ben?

Ctes was in the chat with Ben last night, i havent been in it since night 1

Also realizing ctes didnt lose his vote after the redirection power two nights ago hmm

UltimaterializerX posted...

If you remove innocent scans and lynch the host if scum roles, the remaining players are. FD, IGCD, Ben, and MI. Im willing to remove MI.

FD third party, Ben scum neighbor, and Death godfather. Thats my final answer. Looks super clean.

##Vote: Ben

Death having the balls to put that wtf vote on Ben as a bus would be something though.

Saw day opening, good job, still working will legit check in when I can and I did get my shot.

I mean, it was an unusually terrible vote by Death but does he really do it with two scum already down.

He'd have to be riding that innocent scan very very hard and basically pulling a you.

UltimaterializerX posted...

ctes and chang look the same at a glance.

Either way, who said it first?

Han fired first.

changmas posted...

Ben, did you suggest ctes go for the double vote option or did he suggest it himself?

It was me. He asked how I would use the ability, so I looked over the role again and said he should aim to win the double vote. I dont feel like scum Ctes would be able to pull out a double vote. And it would be pretty hard to believe they would have access to one. So i wanted him to prove he could double vote because that could prove him town. Not just to me but the whole game. A prosty result would only get to happen a day from now and it would just be another question if we can even trust the result or not. A double vote is host confirmation that he can do what he says he can do.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Thank christ.

I trust you completely.

But yeah like I had already decided I was saving IGCD with like 16 hours left but I saw the ridiculous over planning at end of day and my save was on like 20 seconds after the flip.

My save the day before was 11 minutes before the day came up. Was that obvious of a decision.

Meow1000 posted...

Has a big hole in it Kirby wasn't blocking Ulti again, so why wouldn't he be the one sending the kill?

Tough question. One possibility is that, oh, I don't know ULTI IS FUCKING TOWN COP

Jfc

PunishedBen posted...

It was me. He asked how I would use the ability, so I looked over the role again and said he should aim to win the double vote. I dont feel like scum Ctes would be able to pull out a double vote. And it would be pretty hard to believe they would have access to one. So i wanted him to prove he could double vote because that could prove him town. Not just to me but the whole game. A prosty result would only get to happen a day from now and it would just be another question if we can even trust the result or not. A double vote is host confirmation that he can do what he says he can do.

That's fair, but if he's Evil Troy as I've suggested then he never has to "guess correctly" and he can remove his own vote by choosing to scan innocent whenever he wants.

The only thing we've learned is that if Ctes is town, none of us will ever go to Vegas with him.

UltimaterializerX posted...

ctes and chang look the same at a glance.

Either way, who said it first?

Uhh, it looks like technically it was me when arguing why I think the bus drive was one use. And the main reason for this assumption is because I find it hard enough to accept 2 of the people left in the game are scum, 3 is even harder

BEN
I have no idea. The main logic is in the idea that if there is two scum left, we know that one used the janitor/kidnap on lopen
[1:00 PM]
that's usually in the hands of a jack
[1:00 PM]
and we can assume the second is godfather
[1:01 PM]
doesnt leave much room for a permanaent bus driver unless there's 3 left
[1:01 PM]
And i really feel like we'd have seen evidence of it before

Ctes Today at 1:01 PM
3 isn't impossible though but yeah

Forceful_Dragon posted...

That's fair, but if he's Evil Troy as I've suggested then he never has to "guess correctly" and he can remove his own vote by choosing to scan innocent whenever he wants.

The only thing we've learned is that if Ctes is town, none of us will ever go to Vegas with him.

Remember that Red and Ctes were swapped though. Surely scum didnt try to make Ulti scan a guilty Ctes instead of an innocent, right?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

That's fair, but if he's Evil Troy as I've suggested then he never has to "guess correctly" and he can remove his own vote by choosing to scan innocent whenever he wants.

The only thing we've learned is that if Ctes is town, none of us will ever go to Vegas with him.

Ctes is scum if Ulti is the one taking away his vote. Only when Ulti was roleblocked did he claim this ridiculous role to justify it.

Ctes has a fairly low chance of being scum unless Ulti is also scum and Death is actually town.

A Death townflip would essentially confirm I stopped the kill and that Ulti only claimed the scan on me because he knows I need to die for it.

And in that townflip case you burn both Ulti and Ctes to the ground without any hesitation at all.

PunishedBen posted...

Remember that Red and Ctes were swapped though. Surely scum didnt try to make Ulti scan a guilty Ctes instead of an innocent, right?

Who says ctes even really scanned guilty n4?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Who says ctes even really scanned guilty n4?

The theory that he is Troy says it :/ That was the day he could suddenly vote

I've never cared for that theory. I care more that the only day he could vote was the day after Ulti was roleblocked.

Hey guys. Only dropping by to say that IGCD or whoever is welcome to shoot me. But at least let me post stuff first tomorrow. K peace.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lea wouldnt make 4/19.

4+1/19 is possible.

But I have no idea what the +1 might be at this point.

Who knew that having two protection would be such a burden when we now dont even really know who scum tried to kill last night.

I have thoughts about stuff I read at the end of day yesterday, that will lead into thoughts about what happened last night, but I need Death to answer my question first.

Meow1000 posted...

A Death townflip would essentially confirm I stopped the kill and that Ulti only claimed the scan on me because he knows I need to die for it.

And in that townflip case you burn both Ulti and Ctes to the ground without any hesitation at all.

Ultimately I guess it's up to IGCD who he's gonna shoot.

It feels like we learn a ton from a Death flip either way. Best case scenario he flips godfather, but even if he flips town we learn that igcd must have been the target last night and that you prevented it.

But I still wouldn't be upset if IGCD wanted to shoot the guy who also claims to have access to a vig shot. But I guess death and Ctes can't BOTH be scum unless Ulti is also scum. Cop would be pointless if there were two innocent scanning scums.

Then again we've the night kills have been repeatedly avoiding killing claimed protection. That would imply either the protection is lying, or the scanner is lying. Scanner can claim he's still alive because the protection never died so of course scum wouldn't aim for him.

That would still result in some really convoluted play in Ulti's part N4 as I mentioned yesterday so it doesn't feel likely.

PunishedBen posted...

The theory that he is Troy says it :/ That was the day he could suddenly vote

Yeah but that theory was based upon HIM saying he scanned guilty after failing a reputation vote. For all I know that's not even part of it, I was just theorizing his role based upon the information he was providing. The loss of vote has been confirmed several times, but not the loss of reputation.

If Death flips town and we still have 3 scum in 9 here's where we're at though.

Kirby, IGCD, and myself are all basically confirmed town.

People like to act like Chang is confirmed (he's not)

FD has a power that seems completely incompatible with the roles scum has remaining

And that just leaves probably three scum in Ulti, Ctes, MI, and Ben.

If Death flips scum, it makes it likelier Ctes is town, which means Ctes has in fact been blocking his own vote and does leave the possibility that FD can fit.

So you remove those above and Ctes and you have probably two scum Ulti, MI, Ben, and FD.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Just went back and check, your only vote and unvote came about 3 hours before Lopen vanished.

Not to say that it's definitely related, but you did not even attempt to vote on day 1 after that happened.

Oh. Well in that case you guys can continue down this weird hole I guess

But to sum it up if Chang is as confirmed town as people seem to want to act like he is we're in a pretty ok spot either way.

Meow1000 posted...

If Death flips town and we still have 3 scum in 9 here's where we're at though.

Kirby, IGCD, and myself are all basically confirmed town.

People like to act like Chang is confirmed (he's not)

FD has a power that seems completely incompatible with the roles scum has remaining

And that just leaves probably three scum in Ulti, Ctes, MI, and Ben.

If Death flips scum, it makes it likelier Ctes is town, which means Ctes has in fact been blocking his own vote and does leave the possibility that FD can fit.

So you remove those above and Ctes and you have probably two scum Ulti, MI, Ben, and FD.

So here's what I think. I still think you and Ulti are both town. I know the thought is that Lopen had to be doctor or cop...but what if Lopen was just Town Backup? And that is the reason Wallz was so confident to claim he was power day 1, even though it was a role he had no way to prove.

You seem to not trust Ulti. But what about the fact that Ulti was Jailkept by Kirby and kill was not stopped? And on that same night, Ulti's suggested and obvious scan target was also bus driven by scum

PunishedBen posted...

So here's what I think. I still think you and Ulti are both town. I know the thought is that Lopen had to be doctor or cop...but what if Lopen was just Town Backup? And that is the reason Wallz was so confident to claim he was power day 1, even though it was a role he had no way to prove.

You seem to not trust Ulti. But what about the fact that Ulti was Jailkept by Kirby and kill was not stopped? And on that same night, Ulti's suggested and obvious scan target was also bus driven by scum

It happens to be the only night in the entire game that Ctes was still able to vote.

That's a pretty big coincidence.

But yes, Ulti should've sent a kill on both night 4 and night 5 unless scum still has a specific reason to send it on someone else.

Also he claimed a scan on a dead guy who no one thought was scum and is now claiming a scan on the doctor after no one died.

That's a lot more "coincidence".

There's more though. Everyone in the world knew I wasn't saving Ulti last night. If Kirby didn't block the kill, it seems like the obvious answer would be to kill Ulti last night and to bait IGCD into shooting me. A team with Ulti on it has way more incentive to shoot at IGCD than anyone else.

Like if Death actually flips town here you just immediately murder him without second thought.

I will say one thing. I feel like an idiot not trusting myself when I said that Knightz proves Peaf, Red, and Blade are all town. I convinced myself maybe he does not have easy access to his scum team and just did not know them, so threw it out. That was a mistake.

Last night I reset my brain and re-evaulated everyone again. This time based on zero vibes, zero scans. Only facts. These are the 100% Town people

TOWN
Ben
Kirby - jailkept Wallz
Chang - Lawyer (If scum did not have the janitor/kidnap, I could see it. But with this, I cant)
FD - Confirmed Pierce Hawthorne, not Evil Pierce
Ulti - Jailkept by Kirby and kill was not stopped. His scan targets were also bus driven by scum
Blade - Cleared by Knightz

LEAVING
Ctes
Death
IGCD
MI

I do not believe Ctes and IGCD can both be scum together because they both claimed they can access a day vig and potentially get them on the same day. IGCD is only scum if Death is scum, because either IGCD was saved tonight or Death was blocked.

Possible pairings for me right now.

Death/MI

Ctes/MI

Death/IGCD

If there is information missing here (like why isn't Ctes and Death a pairing?), its stuff I want to elaborate on later after Death has answered my question.

Who do I think is most likely scum right now?: MI

Sorry, I know there's supposed to be 3 scum and all. I'm trying to figure out 2 before figuring out 3

PunishedBen posted...

Death/IGCD

What

The moment he fires his shot he's instant confirmed town because scum won't have two EKs ever.

Also cleared by Knightz wtf is my writeup

And how is FD confirmed not evil-Pierce

Meow1000 posted...

There's more though. Everyone in the world knew I wasn't saving Ulti last night. If Kirby didn't block the kill, it seems like the obvious answer would be to kill Ulti last night and to bait IGCD into shooting me. A team with Ulti on it has way more incentive to shoot at IGCD than anyone else.

Like if Death actually flips town here you just immediately murder him without second thought.

I do agree with that. I said as much to Ctes that I would bet on Ulti's death.

Yesterday they seemingly tried to take care of Ulti's scan. It implies they feared it somewhat. And I thought the Bus was one use, since we've only seen it once. So it seems like this would have to be the day to kill Ulti. It makes no sense unless they dont fear Ulti's scan again. I dont know what to think. Only other option is they never feared the scan and the swap was just to make Ulti look worse when he says he scanned someone that he already scanned again.

Does Ulti being town just make Ctes have to be town? Town or Godfather right

PunishedBen posted...

I do agree with that. I said as much to Ctes that I would bet on Ulti's death.

Yesterday they seemingly tried to take care of Ulti's scan. It implies they feared it somewhat. And I thought the Bus was one use, since we've only seen it once. So it seems like this would have to be the day to kill Ulti. It makes no sense unless they dont fear Ulti's scan again. I dont know what to think. Only other option is they never feared the scan and the swap was just to make Ulti look worse when he says he scanned someone that he already scanned again.

Does Ulti being town just make Ctes have to be town? Town or Godfather right

Ulti claimed he tried to scan MI that night though. If scum feared him scanning that much though, why not use the bus to... Y'know... Kill him?

Meow1000 posted...

What

The moment he fires his shot he's instant confirmed town because scum won't have two EKs ever.

Hey, you're the one who said Chang isnt confirmed. And Chang's is way more powerful than a day vig.

I'm open to the possibility just because scum hammerer is a role. Gives IGCD a great excuse to not have to push for a vote. Great thing to claim day 1 and coast on. But I personally think he is town based on his "Knightz does not have access to discord" statements on day 1. I'm just trying to ignore personal reads like that in that post. I do think the way he uses the shot today will give us a more definitive answer on him today too

PunishedBen posted...

Hey, you're the one who said Chang isnt confirmed. And Chang's is way more powerful than a day vig.

I'm open to the possibility just because scum hammerer is a role. Gives IGCD a great excuse to not have to push for a vote. Great thing to claim day 1 and coast on. But I personally think he is town based on his "Knightz does not have access to discord" statements on day 1. I'm just trying to ignore personal reads like that in that post. I do think the way he uses the shot today will give us a more definitive answer on him today too

Chang has a role that is similar enough to a scum role that has existed before. This is immutable fact.

I can't name a game where scum had two EKs.

Meow1000 posted...

Ulti claimed he tried to scan MI that night though. If scum feared him scanning that much though, why not use the bus to... Y'know... Kill him?

I ..... dont know. But why didnt they use it to just kill you that night? That sure would have avoided situations like THIS you would think. It has to be the same reasons I assume. They want to keep the impasse loop alive?