Board 8 > Reality Show General Discussion Topic: Anyone Else Hungry for Applebee's?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I stopped watching but I'm pretty surprised someone from Yanu won. That tribe was a complete and utter disaster. But we saw the same thing with Matsing from Philippines.

Blaziken posted...

I think the problem is this.

Charlie played a very solid game. He was in the middle with Maria for most of the season and was often in a position where he could decide a target. But was so insistent on staying under-the-radar and keeping his threat level low that he came across as someone who was just riding coattails. When you have a jury that is filled with type-A personalities who largely all thought they were brilliant masterminds (despite making big mistakes and four of them getting voted out with idols in their pockets), they want to reward a player who made big, flashy moves. And I think with the way Charlie played the game, he made sure he was always safe, and he made sure the target was always on someone else, and that made it seem like he was often just going along for the ride. Effectively, the way the jury saw things, Ben, Charlie and Kenzie were all kinda coattail riders while all the big players took each other out before the end.

Keep in mind that the jury doesn't see confessionals. They don't get that personal insight into every decision Charlie was making. They just see how the game plays out around them. And I can also understand how things worked within the timeline. Final eight, Maria orchestrates the Tiffany blindside and gets full credit for it. Kenzie/Liz/Venus go to Charlie because they specifically view him as Maria's lapdog and try to convince him that she/Q need to go. But then Maria wins immunity and the tribe votes out easy target Venus, exactly as Maria wants (which also kinda paints Charlie as toothless in the eyes of Venus, since he was really the swing vote in that situation). Then the final six happens and the group of four come together without anyone really seeming like a leader or figurehead, and they boot Q and Maria as a collective group. All of this happens in such a way that portrays Charlie as no more important or vital to the vote as Kenzie or Ben or Liz.

By the time the final tribal council rolled around Charlie's problem is that HE saw his game from the perspective of the kind of superfan he is, whereas a lot of the jury hadn't really seen anything from him personally. From their perspective, Maria was a threat, and she got targeted for being a threat, and she probably got a lot of the credit for moves made during their strategic partnership. After all, that's why the final four (including Charlie) voted her out and made such a big deal about how she would beat them all. So suddenly, Charlie's at the FTC thinking he played a great game, but the jury hadn't really SEEN it, so he has to explain the nuances of his under-the-radar strategy to a group of players incapable of playing under-the-radar themselves. Meanwhile, Kenzie is much more able to be humble and honest, because she knows she wasn't a mastermind so she can't try to puff herself up as controlling all these votes. And we saw with a couple of Charlie's answers...he tried to take credit for things and the jury pointed out that he was trying to take a little TOO much credit for things.

This is a really solid analysis that touches upon an aspect of the game that I rarely see talked about - having a good social game and jury management aren't just about making sure the jury likes you. It's also about having a good enough read on who you're playing with to know what kind of game they're going to respect and reward as a juror and adapting accordingly.

https://imgur.com/a/liz-is-not-millionaire-mjVhInn

We were robbed of Liz in the final 3.

Also i find it amusing that with all the literal Survivor legends that have been (depending on your perspective) "screwed" out of a win by jury hijinks (Colby, Rob, Stephenie, Russell, Parvati, Coach, Aubry), Charlie of all people is the hill people are choosing to die on.

Yeah, Maria's exit interview makes it look even worse. I didn't think the result of Jeff's speech at the beginning would be "Charlie can't win no matter what he does because he's not poor"

Just watched the finale. It was a lot of fun

Tiffany was my favorite player during the first half, but Liz really grew on me and may be my favorite by the end.

But yeah going back to take someone else's plank is unfair. Going to lead to "where in the rulebook does it say you can't help someone during an endurance challenge?"

Very surprised at Maria's vote. Sad that Charlie and Maria are never ever getting back together

I don't feel AS bad because Kenzie was already in the lead at the time. She still had a decent chance at winning from that point. But yeah, it just made it in the bag when Liz started helping her.

Blaziken posted...

Immediate post-finale reactions:

https://i.imgur.com/9UmIQmi.png

Do you happen to have your charts from other seasons all collected/posted somewhere?

Not posted anywhere, but its an Excel Spreadsheet going back to Cambodia that I can post individually.

Zigzagoon posted...

I don't feel AS bad because Kenzie was already in the lead at the time. She still had a decent chance at winning from that point. But yeah, it just made it in the bag when Liz started helping her.

It's funny, because Survivor getting loose with the rules is what made Boston Rob lose Deal or No Deal Island (he looked at another contestant's answer and got a time penalty for it, probably because he's used to Survivor where that would've been perfectly fine.)

After having had some time to think about it, this is my thought:

If Liz had finished her puzzle, gone back to get her own plank, counted the holes and given Kenzie, who had already counted the puzzle pieces and geckos, the answer, I think that would have been fine. But as it stands, Liz literally did part of Kenzie's challenge for her. Part of the challenge (Jeff even announced this once the plank part was discovered) was that you had to bring back your plank, and Kenzie had someone else do that for her. I think we can file this one under a bad call by Jeff, but it's not like he hasn't made those before (ie, letting Ben play his idol and officially confirming it was real before the votes were cast; he course-corrected the next season by accepting Domenick's idol prior to the vote but not confirming it was real until after the votes were cast when it would normally be played).

I think the planks had different amounts of holes, so Liz's answer wouldn't have worked for Kenzie.

With the Sia award now dead, Q wants to be the new Sia.

It sounds like Q genuinely does care about helping those who need money. If his words are to believed, that is part of what motivated his quit attempt at the Tevin boot, and of course his final tribal question. But since he's (literally) putting his money where his mouth is, it may very well be true.

But if that's the case, it makes me less interested in seeing him return for 50 - if he genuinely believes he doesn't deserve the money, then he's going to continue to play in a way where he's not truly trying to win.

That makes sense, considering how he was playing Sia at FTC.

https://deadline.com/2024/05/survivor-issues-statement-to-viewers-consider-embracing-kindness-1235945399/amp/

On one hand, I agree.

On the other, this is LONG overdue following literal decades of places like CTS and Reddit literally wishing death upon contestants.

Underleveled posted...

https://deadline.com/2024/05/survivor-issues-statement-to-viewers-consider-embracing-kindness-1235945399/amp/

On one hand, I agree.

On the other, this is LONG overdue following literal decades of places like CTS and Reddit literally wishing death upon contestants.

One of the admins of multiple Facebook Survivor groups said she banned this loser who was literally bragging about how he dug up Maria's work email so he could tell her what a horrible person she is. Absolutely deranged. Not only was he bullying a contestant, he thought it was an accomplishment to stalk and harass her. Guy deserved the perma-ban.

Liz also received a fair bit of harassment for "being crazy" or some nonsense, as if that didn't make her awesome TV. She was run out of some Survivor groups by people being bullies. Like... do people not want crazy people, and would prefer soulless gamebots? That's redundant and boring TV. Liz, Venus, and Quitavius made this season as great as it was.

Like the reaction to this season made me despise the current state of the fandom, since this was the best season of the "New Era" by a fair margin for me. It felt the most old school, with actually diverse casting that led to a lot of tension and arguing. That is Survivor.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

One of the admins of multiple Facebook Survivor groups said she banned this loser who was literally bragging about how he dug up Maria's work email so he could tell her what a horrible person she is. Absolutely deranged. Not only was he bullying a contestant, he thought it was an accomplishment to stalk and harass her. Guy deserved the perma-ban.

Okay this I actually didn't know. That's pretty fucked up and definitely deserves to be called out. Not the first time it's happened though (I'll reiterate that contestants have received literal death threats from viewers at least as far back as Jerri in Season 2). Like, I'm glad they're finally bringing it up, but it should have happened long ago (not that I think it will change much; these keyboard warriors aren't deterred by compassion).

On one hand, I totally support this statement. I didn't read anything about the season online other than here and the edgic board, but I checked the subreddit finally last week and god, every thread was just hate on Liz, Venus, Maria, hell even for Jess because how dare she get on the show when her heart wasn't in it and etc etc, and it really is sort of pathetic.

On the other hand, I sort of love that of all the things in 46 seasons to make them issue this statement, the sheer unprecentedness of Maria's jury vote and the universal hatred it inspired is the thing that did it. (Yes I am viewing that as the main catalyst here) I value loyalty really highly and the idea of betraying a friend like that (someone who you called family even, and we have no reason to think she was being deceptive when she said those things) is more offputting to me than almost anything else in 46 seasons too so I'm kinda glad to know that lots of people feel the same way, even if, y'know, they shouldn't be contacting her work and stuff.

Underleveled posted...

Okay this I actually didn't know. That's pretty fucked up and definitely deserves to be called out. Not the first time it's happened though (I'll reiterate that contestants have received literal death threats from viewers at least as far back as Jerri in Season 2). Like, I'm glad they're finally bringing it up, but it should have happened long ago (not that I think it will change much; these keyboard warriors aren't deterred by compassion).

It's disturbing how many people think it's actually okay to send a threat or a nastygram to a REAL PERSON just because of something they did on TV. It's abhorrent.

Also another thing: Kenzie posted to Instagram that she didn't want solicitors and to back the fuck away from her salon if you weren't there to get a haircut. This stems from creepos who looked her up, found her workplace, and went in not to give her business, but to get a picture with her and/or an autograph. While she was at work! Not at, like, whatever Hearts of Reality is called now. That is the only place where such behavior is acceptable. She hired a couple security guards to make sure only people with appointments enter. She also changed her hairstyle and is wearing long-sleeve shirts to hide her tattoos.

Like, seriously, what I've seen from these so-called "fans" as of late is just unhinged. Worth noting that some of the same creeps went to PR last year just to visit Yam-Yam, but he was more welcoming but really only wanted anyone already vacationing or living there.

Dels posted...

I value loyalty really highly and the idea of betraying a friend like that (someone who you called family even, and we have no reason to think she was being deceptive when she said those things) is more offputting to me than almost anything else in 46 seasons

Yeah, I value loyalty a lot, too. I don't like Maria at all, because she changed her vote, then gave a load of bullshit to explain why. Then, instead of owning her actions, she changed her story numerous times to Charlie, which got him to distance himself from her. If she had owned her vote from the start and not been so wishy-washy, different story.

But yes, even though I dislike her, I would never ever ever contact her on social media to say something nasty. I just... don't interact with the people I dislike. Just remember that 1) people treat others the way they want to be treated and 2) if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Boston Rob is already accepting offers to pre-game with him for S50.

I can't believe I need to say this but there are EASILY enough great people from 35-46 that have never returned to fill two full seasons worth; PLEASE don't default to bringing back Rob for a 6th time (and that goes for basically anyone that's played more than once already).

I'm surprised because a week or two ago he said he was done with Survivor (and didn't have any interest in the US vs AUS season either).

Mewtwo59 posted...

I'm surprised because a week or two ago he said he was done with Survivor (and didn't have any interest in the US vs AUS season either).

Maybe Rob is trolling. I dunno.

We all know that Jeff is still sour that Rob left him for Ambuh and wants him back so badly. That's a big reason he'd bring Rob back at a moment's notice.

Also, this just hit me - the Charlie/Maria thing probably forever killed whatever chance we had at ever getting a live reunion show back. You just know that's going to be the moment Jeff points to and goes "THAT'S why we do the immediate after-show."

Underleveled posted...

Also, this just hit me - the Charlie/Maria thing probably forever killed whatever chance we had at ever getting a live reunion show back. You just know that's going to be the moment Jeff points to and goes "THAT'S why we do the immediate after-show."

Yeah, that moment was raw and real... but it's also so tacky to force someone into it.

Also somebody Inviso despises (I say this so you stop reading here, Vis) is gonna be on Jeopardy in two weeks, jsyk:
https://www.tvinsider.com/1138584/jeopardy-ken-jennings-survivor-drew-basile/

Who would you say are the top 10 worst Survivor players of all time? (worst as players, not worst as people)

ChatGPT
Determining the "worst" Survivor players can be subjective, as different fans value different aspects of gameplay. Heres a list of ten players often cited as some of the worst in terms of strategic and social gameplay:

1. Wendy Diaz (Edge of Extinction) - Wendy is known for her erratic and unpredictable gameplay, including releasing the tribe's chickens, which alienated her from her tribemates.
2. Russell Swan (Samoa, Philippines) - Russell struggled with physical challenges, his leadership style rubbed people the wrong way, and he couldn't adapt his game after returning for a second chance.
3. Chet Welch (Micronesia) - Chet was physically weak, struggled in challenges, and was often seen as a liability by his tribe.
4. Kourtney Moon (One World) - Kourtney's time was cut short due to an injury, but her early gameplay decisions and lack of alliances were already setting her up for failure.
5. Dan Foley (Worlds Apart) - Dan's social game was abysmal. He frequently offended his tribemates and couldnt gain any traction strategically.
6. Dreamz Herd (Fiji) - Dreamz made a crucial error by not following through on his promise to give up immunity to Yau-Man, destroying his credibility and trustworthiness.
7. Brandon Hantz (South Pacific, Caramoan) - Brandon's emotional instability and erratic gameplay led to his tribe essentially voting him out for his own good in Caramoan.
8. Erik Reichenbach (Micronesia, Caramoan) - Erik is famous for his blunder of giving up immunity at the final five in Micronesia, leading to his immediate vote-out.
9. Nadia Anderson (San Juan del Sur) - Nadia was the first person voted out of her season, failing to form meaningful alliances or strategic plans.
10. Zane Knight (Philippines) - Zane's gameplay was all over the place. He tried to control the game from the start but ended up getting himself voted out first due to his chaotic strategy.

These players often made critical errors, had poor social games, or lacked strategic thinking, leading to their early exits or overall poor performances in the game.

My thoughts:
Solid picks - Wendy, Chet, Dan, Brandon, Zane
Solid pick but poor reasoning - Dreamz (his credibility and trustworthiness were burnt to the ground and the ashes pissed on long before not giving up immunity, which would have gotten him voted out anyway)
Really? Of all the abysmal first boots you're singling out them? - Kourtney, Nadiya
Yeah, they may have made big blunders but are not even close to the 100 worst players - Erik, Russell

I have no idea why the hell Swan is on that list. I also think Dan Foley is a weird choice - he made it far because he was actually liked after recovering from his gaffes day 1! Also, Brandon was... actually a pretty good player in South Pacific. Multiple Upolu people said he could have actually won it all had he not lost his mind and given Albert immunity. Yes, I know that may surprise you.

Big Wendy and Zane are 100% deserving of being on such a list though.

Also missing: Jacob Derwin and Jelinsky.

I also don't think Russell Swan "struggled with physical challenges" other than the one he nearly died during.

I'm not even sure that Big Wendy is the worst Survivor player named Wendy.

I gave my objections to Erik, Russell, Nadiya and Kourtney, and it gave me, as replacements, Brad Culpepper, Reed Kelly, Jean-Robert, and.... Zane a second time.

I asked ChatGPT to give me 10 random Survivors so I could do write-ups on them. It seemed to get hung up on a couple of seasons in particular (thus not totally random) but at least it didn't give me anybody I outright disliked and even threw in a few obscure favorites.

Greg - Was funny for season 1. Coconut phone was hilarious and the sister stuff was... funny but a little creepy. He'd probably fade into the background compared to some of the outlandish personalities of later seasons.

Eliza - Truly a casting gem. Her unfiltered candor and facial expressions make her a riot every time she's on screen.

J'Tia - Largely considered to be one of the best pre-merge characters ever and I can't disagree! While I certainly think she would have become irritating had she lasted much longer, four rounds of her crazy shenanigans helped make Cagayan the high-tier season it is.

Brett - The editors basically deleted the poor guy from the first 11 episodes of the season, which is weird considering he came one immunity challenge away from winning and his jury question was actually kinda funny, so it makes me wonder what we missed out on in favor 100+ confessionals consisting entirely of "AH'M RUSSELL HANTZ!"

Fransesqua - I genuinely feel bad for her. She didn't deserve to be out first twice. If I ever met her, I'd ask her if she ate the rock.

Rory - One of my favorite obscure Survivors ever. I love how he was just grumpy for every second he was on the show and butting heads with everyone. He never once bit his tongue in confessionals or around the others and it made him very comical. It's a shame he went out one round before the jury, because he could have made for a great juror.

Stacey - Another of my favorite early boots, her weird sound effects, unmissable facial expressions, and rather Coach-like rant against Coach made for a funny pre-juror that I think deserves more appreciation.

Shirin - Okay, look, I'm sure she could get irritating around camp BUT she was really entertaining TV and she overcame a personal obstacle and stood up to a horrid bully who continues to get his from the Survivor fanbase.

Erik - Remind me again who he gave individual immunity to? It's been about 12 minutes since CBS showed that clip, I'm getting worried they lost the footage.

Alecia - Like Shirin, she was probably a chore to live with at times but she was great TV and didn't deserve the absolute vitriol she got from some really not-nice guys on her tribe.

That it was able to detect my sarcasm in the Erik write-up has me a little concerned for just how quickly these things are picking up on human behavior.

Forgot to follow up... did anyone watch Drew on Jeopardy? (I know some of you didn't, and that's okay.) I won't say any spoilers.

Underleveled posted...

Fransesqua - I genuinely feel bad for her. She didn't deserve to be out first twice. If I ever met her, I'd ask her if she ate the rock.

She said she didn't in her exit press IIRC.

Rory - One of my favorite obscure Survivors ever. I love how he was just grumpy for every second he was on the show and butting heads with everyone. He never once bit his tongue in confessionals or around the others and it made him very comical. It's a shame he went out one round before the jury, because he could have made for a great juror.

Rory on the jury instead of Chad would've been great. Sarge at least had the "PSYCHE!" he pulled on Chris and Chris, well, won. Rory was a fantastic character and I really think we missed out on seeing him back.

Stacey - Another of my favorite early boots, her weird sound effects, unmissable facial expressions, and rather Coach-like rant against Coach made for a funny pre-juror that I think deserves more appreciation.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d9348e2f.png

That it was able to detect my sarcasm in the Erik write-up has me a little concerned for just how quickly these things are picking up on human behavior.

This is genuinely scary.