Current Events > can trump people be de-programmed?

(+) Yeah! (+)

you can't reason people out of opinions that they didn't reason themselves into.
"deprogramming" them will take something other than logical discussion

There's are a couple examples of effective deprogramming I can think of...

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Not really.

1. The Nazis suffered the most humiliating military defeat since ... Well the ottoman empire. That absolutely crushes credibility of your party. The Japanese went through something similar.
2. Most of the adults didn't really change, they just stopped indoctrinating youth.

Nope.

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Were we? How many people who actually believed in Nazi ideology did any sort of reversal?

Maybe if you gave them medical marijuana they might change their ways.

They're just gonna cry stolen election again until they run out of breath and or bandwidth. They won't be interested in deprogramming lol

Maybe, with years of work put in by very qualified people. I'd like to believe so, but man the more shit that comes out and you get his minions saying like "I wish he'd molest my mother". That one's a lost cause. Maybe others on the lower end, who are just willfully misinformed? I don't know.

The best case scenario is if Kamala wins and more importantly if she sees Obama level turnouts and stomps, Trumpers would be so demoralized they sink back into their festering shit holes and that base of support is become too depressed to vote in future elections.

The funny thing is ultimately this would make their lives much better.

Possibly?

I'm not really knowledgeable about this particular thing. I just feel like that at least some of them have to be reachable. It can't all be lost causes.

No. Believing in Trump is like believing the Earth is flat. It is unequivocally the wrong choice, factually, emotionally, and fiscally.

It is not a belief someone can come to, at this point, without a lack of something fundamental to the human experience. You lack empathy, critical thinking, humility, or some combination of the three.

Trumpers can not be reasoned with. If they wish to be deprogrammed, it will have to be on their own terms.

Unfortunately, a lot of deprogramming comes from when it's already too late. There was a whole glut of "I fell for the lies and now my spouse is dead" during covid.

Some of them will work themselves out of it eventually. But not many.

Trumpers were crazy and evil before Trump, they just weren't as oppressive with it.

Cartoon_Quoter posted...

Some of them will work themselves out of it eventually. But not many.

I think a lot of Trumpers have legit lost loved ones, brothers, children in their zealous loyalty to Trumpism. So its all they have left. And if they break out of that they have to grip with the harping reality that they are truly alone.

Speaking for my parents, fuck no. I've been convinced since 2016 if Trump and I were hanging off a cliff and my mom could only save one, I'd be dead.

Irony posted...

Trumpers were crazy and evil before Trump, they just weren't as oppressive with it.

I don't like to call them all crazy and evil. If lies are all you ever hear and see, from all your media and all your friends and family, you're gonna believe the lies unless you are exceptional, or otherwise inherently outcast from the accepted standard. There are whole swaths of the country where people just take newsmax as normal, every day news.

I think that for anyone who is still a Trumper after all that has happened so far, there's no hope. Anyone who hasn't turned away from him by now never really will.

When the GOP have decided that Trump is no longer profitable enough for them and finally turn their media machine against him (or when he dies), then most if not all of the Still-Trumpers will make a show of coming out against him themselves, and will pretend that while lots of other people were taken in by him, they of course never really supported him.

But that will just be for show. Deep down, these people will still be utter pieces of shit.

It's not like all the people who support Trump were decent, kind, tolerant and thoughtful people before Trump, and that he came along and switched them to their Evil setting like they were an off-brand Krusty Doll. These people will always have been bigoted fashies, but they will have known that to get by in society you have to pretend not to be or you get ostracized.

Trump's dog whistling and "quiet part out loud"-ing just made them feel safe to take the mask off.

There will no doubt come a time when they put the mask back on, but we should never now forget that it's there.

TomClark posted...

most if not all of the Still-Trumpers will make a show of coming out against him themselves, and will pretend that while lots of other people were taken in by him, they of course never really supported him.

I don't think this will happen the way they want it to. There will always be a significant portion of Trumpers who will rally against anything that isn't purely pro-Trump. Even if the general Right media tries to "push them" away.

Probably.

https://codecapsule.com/2021/12/20/learn-street-epistemology-to-deal-with-difficult-people-at-work/

Crazy alt-right populism is on the rise in every western country, not just the USA. when their chosen politician loses they don't accept defeat, they create a new conspiracy engineered by a new/existing (it doesn't matter which) boogeyman and then wait for the next election to try again

No.

One of the first things you'd have to do is stamp out their use of lies and misinformation, which is impossible because they'll hide behind "my free speech!".

Then you'd have to find a way to actually show them the truth and get them to understand everything that's been hammered into their heads, likely all their lives isn't true, and you'd also have to get them to understand they've been manipulated/indoctrinated. Which they'll never accept.

And finally you'd have to get them to be willing to learn, and they hate that. They despise education unless it's something they can try to manipulate. Like how they gloss over slavery and say things like "Yeah, slavery was bad." Without actually stating what exactly about it was bad, like torture, beatings, severing/breaking limbs, sexual violence, etc. Instead they say "Think of all the good things slavery did!".

There is no helping these people.

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8bd0889f.jpg

Nope. A lost cause.

You gotta do a wipe and reinstall, first. You might also have to flash the BIOS because it's clearly bugged.

Personally, I thought that the Qanon Shaman guy should have been put in a mental hospital to figure this question out.

Many Trumpers aren't programmed. They were awful, hateful, bigoted, spiteful people before Trump came along. He just let them feel like they didn't have to be in the closet anymore.

I think we can normalize being normal again. That'd require taking Fox News off the air (and maybe removing the whole 24/7 news cycle). Take away the main cause of all the anxiety and a lot of the problems would stop looking like problems.

Economic anxiety is another big driver of xenophobia, globally. Economic anxiety goes up, xenophobia goes up. But it sure doesn't help that we have a Congress not helping and media reporting misleading facts about the economy.

Trump could die of old age today and it would still take 40+ years to undo the damage to the community

sure but

Bugmeat posted...

Many Trumpers aren't programmed. They were awful, hateful, bigoted, spiteful people before Trump came along. He just let them feel like they didn't have to be in the closet anymore.

and also

ChocoboMogALT posted...

I think we can normalize being normal again. That'd require taking Fox News off the air (and maybe removing the whole 24/7 news cycle). Take away the main cause of all the anxiety and a lot of the problems would stop looking like problems.

Economic anxiety is another big driver of xenophobia, globally. Economic anxiety goes up, xenophobia goes up. But it sure doesn't help that we have a Congress not helping and media reporting misleading facts about the economy.

Are both true, imo. How can we "deprogram" people by persuading them to act like humans? Education, the news media, and we better do it quickly :P

The problem is we don't teach critical thinking in America until college. High school is memorization, and teach a very black/white mentality about everything.

I think giving everyone free tuition (i.e. paid by taxes) for 2 years of community college is a good start. If you don't maintain a 3.0 gpa then you have to pay it back or something.

It's not like everyone needs a phd in physics, but they deserve some education that isn't interfered with by their parents. Adults with a GED or HSD deserve a shot and changing careers too. Plenty of CEmen would benefit from such a program.

Bugmeat posted...

Many Trumpers aren't programmed. They were awful, hateful, bigoted, spiteful people before Trump came along. He just let them feel like they didn't have to be in the closet anymore.

No, that just means they've been getting programmed for a long time. The Rush Show started in 1988. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Absolutely. Pretty much all it takes is for them to stop watching shit like Fox News regularly and start watching things that do factual, verifiable reporting regular. Change their drip feed of propaganda and watch their entire lifestyle change as well

@fire_bolt

Absolutely. Pretty much all it takes is for them to stop watching shit like Fox News regularly and start watching things that do factual, verifiable reporting regular. Change their drip feed of propaganda and watch their entire lifestyle change as well

Maybe, but then they use to watch left leaning stuff that we also go for like super heroes and Star Trek cause they had elements that could appeal to them.

Heck sadly I think even fellow some MLP fans aren't guaranteed to be left leaning.

ChocoboMogALT posted...

Economic anxiety is another big driver of xenophobia, globally. Economic anxiety goes up, xenophobia goes up. But it sure doesn't help that we have a Congress not helping and media reporting misleading facts about the economy.

A big one I also see is the need to believe being part of the right group, namely White, Hetero and especially Male means that goodness and success is in your blood.

Examples:
- The PSA short Boys Beware professed to be about pedophile danger, but the boys in it are never preyed on by women. Could be the ridiculous idea that boys can handle women, or that hets would never do such a thing.

- Black people "tend" to fit the profile of criminals.

- Immigrants hurt the economy.

In short, the alternative is working hard to make good. Heaven forbid.

Saw a video of an old grandma who was a Trumper than realized that he was full of shit and voted for Biden instead.

Probably. Just stop watching or listening to right wing shit.

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I mean how do you punish a vast majority of a country's population?

It's actually really disappointing and terrifying that there were plenty of adults who just went on being Nazis all throughout their lives. They just did so quietly. In a lot of ways, most Nazis didn't even really get punished.

We saw most of Russia just went back to Soviet style mindsets after only a decade to.

It only worked with Japan because we kept a tight watch on them...in the end we are seeing that nations only change when all the pepole that want violence are either forced to stand down at gun point or are killed...few have ever really changed otherwise.

HighSeraph posted...

I mean how do you punish a vast majority of a country's population?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3468045a.jpg

(Which wouldn't be acceptable)

Honestly they can't, I mean you can show them a video of Trump saying awful shit and they will make up excuses for it.

can trump people be de-programmed?

Cant tell if bad faith topic or not. Because you know he cant. Cmon.

Blbmbr666 posted...

Honestly they can't, I mean you can show them a video of Trump saying awful shit and they will make up excuses for it.

Lol, thinking about this, this could be a very fun game the late night talkshows that have reporters go to places like the RNC could do.

NAME THAT EXCUSE!

Reporter: "Donald Trump recently said he wanted to make it so no one has to vote anymore. Watch this video"

*Video plays*

Reporter: "Thoughts?"

Latenight Talkshow pauses the video.

Host: "Okay, folks, you have a keypad under your seat. What do YOU think the excuse is going to be?"

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What worked was a general acceptance that being a Nazi is shameful and wrong, forcing the remaining Nazis to at least keep their repulsive views under wraps, or be ostracised.

Actually, that worked OK in most of the world until the 2000s.

Most of them are a lost cause.

But the key word here is "most". And it can be very hard to tell which ones sometimes. Someone like, say, Tails is a very obvious lost cause. On the other hand, I've definitely known people who've snapped out of that crap. Heck, myself, I was never full blown MAGA but I was definitely leaning in that direction at one point (how they acted around Covid was a real wake-up call, I guess the fact I've always had quite an interest in science so was already "immunized" so to speak against the misinformation on that one really helped). So yeah. Some people, at least, can definitely recover from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1CoYEMzq8k

Thoughtful comments from Jordan Klepper. He starts off saying no you can't change them, but then qualifies it a bit (and gives an example of a woman who went to jail after Jan 6th and that changed her).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/005e5e41.jpg

It's difficult because they practice willful ignorance which means they know what they're doing is bad but they don't care.

A good dose of something to destroy the ego and an album that explores the right ideas/draws out the right emotions (Fear Inoculum by Tool is perfect) is all you need to prime someone for deprogramming