Current Events > Unpopular opinion: Getting to the Great Bay temple is the lowest point in Zelda

(+) Yeah! (+)

I already dislike MM cuz everything feels like a chore prolonging my arrival to a dungeon, but from what I remember the process to enter Great Bay temple was truly awful. Some 'beginning of KH2' level awful

In OoT, you wanna get to the Water Temple?
- Go to Zora's Domain, Reach the Ice Cavern, a smaller scale dungeon. No cutscenes
- complete the dungeon, obtain iron boots and carry blue flame to king for blue tunic
- teleport directly to Water Temple and enter it

In MM, you wanna get to Great Bay Temple?
- help farm girl fight aliens to learn how to summon epona to hop over a fucking fence
- watch dying zora give you the coolest thing the game has to offer, the zora mask.
- begin a stealth mission in a Zelda game, collecting more eggs than you have bottles for, requiring multiple trips
- underwater escort/ follow the leader mission
- learn the song, and rewind time cuz you def don't have enough time to complete the dungeon
- enter Great Bay Temple and get fucked up by the fish boss

Goddamn I hate Majora Mask

great bay is probably my low point too but i like majoras mask

Still better than getting to the sixth dungeon of Oracle of Ages.

Not even the lowest point in MM

Then what is the lowest point for you?

Goron racing

Getting to the dungeons in Zelda is more fun than the dungeons themselves. You're actually exploring the world and doing stuff instead of wandering a bunch of hallways leading to locked doors.

Nah low point is the beginning when you stuck as plant boy.

Is goron racing mandatory? I don't remember

What about that powder keg bullshit?

Sounds like a serious case of git gud

The only Zelda stealth section that I genuinely hate is Forbidden Fortress, because they put it right at the beginning of the game and force you to engage with the stealth mechanics. OoT/MM at least have the good sense to let you shoot the Gerudo guards to breeze through their fortresses. These also come later in the game, compared to WW where you haven't even really played the game for real yet.

And all the bosses in MM are ezpz I have no idea why Gyorg seems to have some kind of reputation. >_>

PowerOats posted...

I already dislike MM cuz everything feels like a chore prolonging my arrival to a dungeon

topic fucking closed

MM is more focused on the non-dungeon parts of the game than OoT is.

But also I agree with you, if you don't have 3 bottles the zora egg hunt sucks. you end up doing 3 trips to the fortress and 2 to underwater eels and it's just an all around pain

metralo posted...

topic fucking closed

I can't help it man

Navi says 'go this way', I go do a few different things along the way and I'm in very quick

MM says go this way, but help multiple randoms along the way, and by the time im in the dungeon I gotta reset time and feel unmotivated to continue

Irony posted...

Goron racing

For me the lowest point is the Goron rolling segment of the final dungeon, but good lord is this a close second. Goron rolling is already a game-ruining pain in the ass to begin with, but tack on the kind of rubber-band AI that would make even Mario Kart wince in secondhand embarrassment and you've got a FFX-caliber nightmare of a minigame on your hands.

PowerOats posted...

Is goron racing mandatory? I don't remember

Only if you want the permanent sword upgrade, which for me is about as close to mandatory as you can get without strictly meeting the definition of 'mandatory.'

The games pacing definitely suffers between
Snowhead and Great Bay.

Nothing sucks more than the walk to the temple in LoZ2 except for the temple itself.

I thought getting to the stone temple was tedious with how often you had to play the statue song in order to get back and forth.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Nothing sucks more than the walk to the temple in LoZ2 except for the temple itself.

I farmed these lives for the Great Palace not the trip to the Great Palace! -SomecallmeJohnny

Irony posted...

Goron racing

God, fuck Goron racing.

Great Bay Temple is overhated, it's not bad at all. Honestly, it's rather simple: follow the flowing water and hit the switches you come across.

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

God, fuck Goron racing.

Great Bay Temple is overhated, it's not bad at all. Honestly, it's rather simple: follow the flowing water and hit the switches you come across.

Half the difficulty in those dungeons is getting the stray fairies.

I only played through once but my memories were of a lot of tedium.

Hambo posted...

Getting to the dungeons in Zelda is more fun than the dungeons themselves. You're actually exploring the world and doing stuff instead of wandering a bunch of hallways leading to locked doors.

Opinions like this are why we don't have dungeons anymore.

Yeah, I think Majora's Mask is mostly a chore beginning to end. I was ranting about it to my wife the other day, and she was pretty disgusted because she loves it. She then just started a new game on her 3DS in protest and is literally playing in bed next to me right now. Fighting the forest temple boss. He sounds annoying! Lol

Additional comment: I just told her the game is a chore to play and fucking annoying. She said, "you are fucking annoying and just need to git gud". I love her

As someone who considers Majora's Mask as a top 3 game of all time, the game by all means is not perfect, but I don't think there's a single part of it I'd consider a "worst" for the Zelda franchise.

Some much worst shit than done of the tedium getting to Great Bay Temple that comes to mind are:

-the trek to Zelda 2's final Temple and the final Temple itself

-That ohe fucking heart piece in Minish Cap that requires you to deal with RNG figurine collecting bullshit

-trying to play the flute in Spirit tracks

-the first visit to Forsaken Fortress in WW.

-Triforce Heroes...well...just the game itself really. Unless you can actually get a couple IRL friends to play the game with it just kinda sucks.

-Both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword have moments that are more backtracky/tedious compared to anything from MM from what I recall .

Ignoring Zelda 2 in general...

Still no. While it is an extended underwater section, Majora's Mask at least gives you the Zora form that lets you actually do stuff in Water without it feeling like a wet slog.

bsp77 posted...

Yeah, I think Majora's Mask is mostly a chore beginning to end. I was ranting about it to my wife the other day, and she was pretty disgusted because she loves it. She then just started a new game on her 3DS in protest and is literally playing in bed next to me right now. Fighting the forest temple boss. He sounds annoying! Lol

Additional comment: I just told her the game is a chore to play and fucking annoying. She said, "you are fucking annoying and just need to git gud". I love her

His name is Odolwa. And its not the Forest Temple. Its Woodfall Temple. Pretty big difference.

ssjevot posted...

Opinions like this are why we don't have dungeons anymore.

#NoRagerts. BotW and TotK dungeons were less tedious than traditional ones, shrines are mini dungeons that cut out all the backtracking and the "where the fuck was that one door?" BS, and MM and WW are a blast for having fewer dungeons and more side quests. I refuse to simp for expansive dungeons any longer.

The lowest point for me either was the triforce hunt in wind walker I was never able to complete, or the entirety of skyward sword for being what it was.

Hambo posted...

#NoRagerts. BotW and TotK dungeons were less tedious than traditional ones, shrines are mini dungeons that cut out all the backtracking and the "where the fuck was that one door?" BS, and MM and WW are a blast for having fewer dungeons and more side quests. I refuse to simp for expansive dungeons any longer.

The BotW dungeons were kinda ass though. The segments before and after the dungeons were far more entertaining. Like when you're surfing that seal to chase down Nabooris while dodging lightning and shit is like fucking amazing. Swimming on sidon's back & climbing death mountain with Yunobu and shit are all fantastic segments. Then parts where you control the beasts as well are also great.

The shit that actually goes down inside the beast is boring as fuck tho. Hyrule Castle was the only good dungeon.

TotK dungeons were vastly superior.

SaikyoStyle posted...

His name is Odolwa. And its not the Forest Temple. Its Woodfall Temple. Pretty big difference.

That is your response to my post? Clearly missed the gist.

Id say its the temple itself thats the lowest point for MM personally but its definitely the worst segment of the game either way.

PowerOats posted...

- help farm girl fight aliens to learn how to summon epona to hop over a fucking fence
- watch dying zora give you the coolest thing the game has to offer, the zora mask.
- begin a stealth mission in a Zelda game, collecting more eggs than you have bottles for, requiring multiple trips
- underwater escort/ follow the leader mission
- learn the song, and rewind time cuz you def don't have enough time to complete the dungeon
- enter Great Bay Temple and get fucked up by the fish boss

1) The Romani Ranch sidequest is one of the most awesome in MM. I will not hear this heresy.
2) As above, Zora Mask owns bones (at least in the N64 version). Playing around in Great Bay with that mask is probably my favourite gameplay element of MM in general.
3) Admittedly, Pirates' Fortress kind of sucks. It's annoying to try and navigate when you're exploring it for the first time, and once you know where everything is trying to speedrun it is also a pain because of how the guards are positioned at the fortress exterior. That said, if you know what you're doing, you can a) Grab the stone mask (you just need Epona (N64 version only), a bottle, and the Lens of Truth, all of which you will have at this point) to make the stealth portions trivial and b) Get four bottles (Kotake, Goron Race, Romani Ranch, and either the Graveyard (N64) or Swamp Archery or Gorman Bros. (3DS)) so you only have to do one trip.
4) The seahorse isn't an escort mission, since you're not defending him from anything. You do have to follow him, but the path he takes is piss-easy, so this really shouldn't be a point of contention.

Also, calling that sequence "the lowest point in Zelda" is more than a little ridiculous in a world where Skyward Sword and the Wind Waker end-game treasure hunt exist. Hell, it's not even the lowest point in Majora's Mask - that would go to either climbing Stone Tower (because who doesn't love playing a song and watching a short cutscene over and over while engaging in trial-and-error gameplay to figure out the exact sequence the switches have to be pressed in order to not have the stone blocks jam into each other) or anything involving Goron rolling other than Goht (both Goron racing and the mini-dungeon during the end-game are absolutely awful thanks to Goron rolling's shitty physics).

Tyranthraxus posted...

The BotW dungeons were kinda ass though. The segments before and after the dungeons were far more entertaining. Like when you're surfing that seal to chase down Nabooris while dodging lightning and shit is like fucking amazing. Swimming on sidon's back & climbing death mountain with Yunobu and shit are all fantastic segments. Then parts where you control the beasts as well are also great.

The shit that actually goes down inside the beast is boring as fuck tho. Hyrule Castle was the only good dungeon.

TotK dungeons were vastly superior.

Aww I liked the gimmicks in the divine beasts. Using Ruta's water to move the water wheel, completing circuits in Naboris, and tilting Medoh and Rudania were fun ways of interacting with and controlling the environments. It's like changing the direction of the water in Great Bay Temple without having to trudge all the way back to the switches each time. I forget what exactly the slate did in the dlc dungeon, but I remember loving that dungeon anyway.

Also the fire temple in TotK was super annoying. Trying to use the rails to traverse the place legitimately is a nightmare.

TotK definitely wins in terms of bosses though. The blights were boring.

darkknight109 posted...

2) As above, Zora Mask owns bones (at least in the N64 version). Playing around in Great Bay with that mask is probably my favourite gameplay element of MM in general.

I am not a fan of what the 3DS version did to that mask. Specifically nerfing the fluid animations. I'm also not keen on the changes made to the bosses.

Still better then most of Skyward Sword and all the damn backtracking in that game to me.

damn how many decades did it take for people to finally realize that MM isn't good

finally

Great Bay was such an awesome area aesthetically. It's a shame it contained that awful zora egg bit.

I never really understood why people loved MM so much. It felt really tedious to me. Some of the stories and characters were good, but the overall game was pretty meh.

SaikyoStyle posted...

His name is Odolwa. And its not the Forest Temple. Its Woodfall Temple. Pretty big difference.

Tomato tomahto. People would know what they were talking about anyways. No need to correct them lol

mgsbutser posted...

Tomato tomahto.

No it's not! Majora's Mask doesn't even have a forest in it!

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

No it's not! Majora's Mask doesn't even have a forest in it!

https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Woods_of_Mystery

I don't get why everyone hates the goron moon dungeon so much. you literally just start rolling straight down the path and then once the spikes come out let go of the control stick entirely and the area basically plays itself

mgsbutser posted...

Tomato tomahto. People would know what they were talking about anyways. No need to correct them lol

Yeah, I was trying to tell a story about even just within my marriage, we showcase the polarizing opinions regarding Majora's Mask

kirbymuncher posted...

I don't get why everyone hates the goron moon dungeon so much. you literally just start rolling straight down the path and then once the spikes come out let go of the control stick entirely and the area basically plays itself

People are simply built different ways. If Goron rolling 'clicks' for you, you'll breeze through that segment of the final dungeon in minutes; if it doesn't, it's one of the most frustrating, controller-chucking segments in gaming history.

Those giant eels scared the shit out of me as a kid lol

I've always been terrified of deep water monsters

less tedious than doing anything in Breath of the wild

PowerOats posted...

help farm girl fight aliens to learn how to summon epona to hop over a fucking fence

Don't you only have to do the practice run and not actually fight the aliens?

littlebro07 posted...

Those giant eels scared the shit out of me as a kid lol

I've always been terrified of deep water monsters

But once you clear them out, that area at night is one of my favorites in gaming.

Dark_Arbron posted...

I am not a fan of what the 3DS version did to that mask. Specifically nerfing the fluid animations. I'm also not keen on the changes made to the bosses.

I'm not a fan of what the 3DS version did to Majora's Mask. There's so much little crap that, admittedly, individually sounds nitpicky as fuck but combined make for a worse overall experience than the original.

kirbymuncher posted...

I don't get why everyone hates the goron moon dungeon so much. you literally just start rolling straight down the path and then once the spikes come out let go of the control stick entirely and the area basically plays itself

That's only true for the first half of the course. After that, you have to take some pretty tight curves and the lag on the rolling physics makes it an exercise in pure frustration.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I never really understood why people loved MM so much. It felt really tedious to me. Some of the stories and characters were good, but the overall game was pretty meh.

It remains my favourite Zelda game. The masks are a fun twist, the sidequests are interesting, and it's Zelda's absolute best story and ambience. The fact that the game has progression over the three day setting makes the world feel far more alive and dynamic than just about any other game world, either within the series or outside of it.

Also, the soundtrack is fucking astounding.

In addition, the game plays really well as a randomizer, particularly when paired with OoT. Being able to get some of the late game items early (Great Fairy's Sword, Fierce Deity's Mask if you have that enabled to work anywhere) makes them feel a lot less of a wasted opportunity than they come across as in the base game.

Unknown5uspect posted...

I'm not a fan of what the 3DS version did to Majora's Mask. There's so much little crap that, admittedly, individually sounds nitpicky as fuck but combined make for a worse overall experience than the original.

The 3DS port is kind of a mixed bag. They did make some good QOL improvements, particularly in how saving and the Song of Double Time works, but the nerf to Zora swimming and the boss updates really degrade those parts of the game (particularly as the changes to Gyorg make the Fierce Deity Mask even more useless than it was in the original, since now the only boss it's actually half-decent against is Odolwa). Overall, I wouldn't say I strongly prefer one over the other, though nostalgia would probably give the original the nod.