Current Events > Why are men so into Rogan, Tate, Jordan Peterson. (serious, non-sexist answers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm not saying this to suggest men are crazier or stupider than women. Lord knows women have an extensive laundry list of irrational silly stuff we buy into.

It's just the particular flavour of goofy that I find curious. So many intelligent, put-together men I know are into all of it. They seriously look to Joe Rogan for answers. Their share their Andrew Tate crypto stats like it's important. Ever hear men talking about child raising? The amount of goofy mystical stuff they say will help create a masculine boy. My partner just seriously told me to go and get a particular Jordan Peterson book for our pregnant friend because it "induced my sister's labour". This man has a science degree.

I honestly don't know any straight women that have ever given a serious thought towards the decline of the decadent, godless west. I only know mine because half a dozen male friends constantly remind me of it. Like, "haha, that's such a Weimar thing to say". I know plenty of girls that will justify spending $600 on a new mattress they'll never use, or will give you their astrophysics thesis on the theory of everything despite never graduating college, but they ain't talking about the fungi from Yuggoth.

Rogan has interesting guests sometimes and knows what he's talking about when it comes to MMA. The rest of those people can fuck off.

Because straight white men have the most privilege and can't handle that other people have actual societal reasons why it is harder to get ahead in life. If you're a straight white man, what is your excuse for failure? The people you mentioned make a living by telling straight white men that it is NOT their fault, but the fault of "others" or "society" or "WOKE" or whatever.

ironman2009 posted...

Rogan has interesting guests sometimes and knows what he's talking about when it comes to MMA. The rest of those people can fuck off.

Who would you consider to be his interesting guests?

As women have become economically self sufficient and politically powerful, they no longer put up with as much BS from men. As a result, many men have been left behind, and add in the negative impact of social media and less in-person socializing, they turn to this swine to somehow cure, or at least commiserate, about their loneliness.

Joe Rogan is because a lot of people are into MMA. I used to listen to his podcast and you get some interesting guests. Jordan Peterson and Tate got into the self-help industry which is big with men due to gym culture.

bsp77 posted...

As women have become economically self sufficient and politically powerful, they no longer put up with as much BS from men. As a result, many men have been left behind, and add in the negative impact of social media and less in-person socializing, they turn to this swine to somehow cure, or at least commiserate, about their loneliness.

Have they really been "left behind" thought? Or is it more that they can no longer coast by on their privilege?

Because there are many lonely, depressed and angry young men who lacked strong male role models growing up so they turn online men to take advise from who they percieve as strong to fill that void.

A lot what they preach is common sense like clean Your room, workout and take care of yourself, have continuous self improvement..et It is useful to loser men.

Rotterdammerung posted...

Have they really been "left behind" thought? Or is it more that they can no longer coast by on their privilege?

Yeah, perhaps. I wasn't trying to phrase it in a way that portrayed them as a victim.

I hope most of CE knows by now that this does not describe me at all, and I combat men who fall into this trap.

deathproof12 posted...

Because there are many lonely, depressed and angry young men who lacked strong male role models growing up so they turn online men to take advise from who they percieve as strong to fill that void.

A lot what they preach is common sense like clean Your room, workout and take care of yourself, have continuous self improvement..et It is useful to loser men.

So, this is a problem caused by men not stepping up to the plate?

Rotterdammerung posted...

Who would you consider to be his interesting guests?

Most of his MMA guests, he had Adam Sandler, Action Bronson, OG Rick Ross on there some what recently to name a few I was interested in

Lack of positive role models and self worth

Rotterdammerung posted...

My partner just seriously told me to go and get a particular Jordan Peterson book for our pregnant friend because it "induced my sister's labour". This man has a science degree.

Huge lmao

Rotterdammerung posted...

Have they really been "left behind" thought? Or is it more that they can no longer coast by on their privilege?

The talking points from one of the people in title is now that women are educated they are making more money than men. So they can be picky in their partner. Which means a smaller percentage of men are going on dates.

This constant rejection is leading them into the people in title. Due to other talking points they make.

bsp77 posted...

Yeah, perhaps. I wasn't trying to phrase it in a way that portrayed them as a victim.

I hope most of CE knows by now that this does not describe me at all, and I combat men who fall into this trap.

So many apologies, I took it for granted (you being you) that my post would come across as a question to the viewpoint you were repeating, than *you* were *expressing*, if that makes sense. From what I've seen here, I don't feel like you would agree with Joe Rogan, Tate or Jordan Peterson and I am really sorry if I made you think that I thought you would.

Rotterdammerung posted...

So many apologies, I took it for granted (you being you) that my post would come across as a question to the viewpoint you were repeating, than *you* were *expressing*, if that makes sense. From what I've seen here, I don't feel like you would agree with Joe Rogan, Tate or Jordan Peterson and I am really sorry if I made you think that I thought you would.

No need to apologize. I didn't think you actually thought I agreed with them. I was simply admitting that "left behind" could be taken in a way I didn't intend.

The men certainly feel they have been "left behind" by a society that has rejected them, even if many do it to themselves.

Rotterdammerung posted...

So, this is a problem caused by men not stepping up to the plate?

Moreso a product of a society rooted in toxic masculinity.

I honestly dont know who the other two are but Ive watched a lot of Joe Rogan podcasts and enjoy them. I know this board hates him but I unapologetically enjoy a bunch of his guests. The actors like Robert Downey Junior and Jamie Fox and Adam Sandler and so many others have been really good and fun.

He has had some worlds strongest strong man competitors on there that were good. There was this lady on there that was this like extreme ultra marathon runner on there who crushed all men and women and set records and she was pretty amazing to listen to.

I dont like when hes just fucking around with Bert and Tom and all the comedian friends nor when its someone like Musk no but the actors or athletes he has had I listen a lot and he has had some excellent ones. I will continue listening to those.

Not everyone who listens to Rogan is a chud. Hes become one of my favorite interview shows because he actually does some good homework on them and gets them talking. It reminds me of Howard Stern in that way back in the day I didnt expect that goofball to have decent guests or give good interviews and the more I tuned in I realized I liked his interviews more than anyone elses.

orangefire25 posted...

Lack of positive role models and self worthy

Yeah, it's not unlike the traits of why people gravitate to cults.

BlueTigerLion posted...

The talking points from on of the people in title is now that women are educated they are making more money than men. So they can be picky in their partner. Which means a smaller percentage of men are going on dates.

This constant rejection is leading them into the people in title. Due to other talking points they make.

So for women to have more agency in who they can choose as a partner is a bad thing?

Rotterdammerung posted...

So for women to have more agency in who they can choose as a partner is a bad thing?

to a lot of (very gross) men, yes

Hey TC, you better hope Sway doesn't see this topic! Lol

Rotterdammerung posted...

Who would you consider to be his interesting guests?

He's had just about everyone on his show. It was, till his big right wing grift shift, the big selling point of his show. Astrophysicist, conspiracy nuts, Economists, celebrities, pro athletes, military vets, politicians, former presidents.

bsp77 posted...

Hey TC, you better hope Sway doesn't see this topic! Lol

I've been here far too long to not know who that is.

Who's that?

They promise answers and success to people who want them (not claiming that they deliver) and tell them that its other peoples fault. Not hard to see why it would have appeal if you were blind to the fact that its all bullshit.

Rotterdammerung posted...

My partner just seriously told me to go and get a particular Jordan Peterson book for our pregnant friend because it "induced my sister's labour". This man has a science degree

Weird second time today I've seen some weird "helped induce mu sisters labor" post

At least those are just weird. My father decided to drive fast down a really bumpy road without forewarning in an attempt to induce labor with my mom. Didn't work just pissed her off

Anyways idk I don't do podcasts. Co worker put Rogan on one day and it was just conspiracy theory bullshit he and whomever his guest where talking about.

He comes off plesant enough I suppose and doesn't sound like a total idiot by the way he speaks (ignoring what he's actually saying)

Rotterdammerung posted...

I've been here far too long to not know who that is.

Who's that?

Someone constantly getting into arguments about how men have everything stacked against them, and sees it all as society's fault. He and Gladius have epic arguments.

Men dont really have much in the way of famous motivational speakers to look listen to for advice and look up to due to the lack of male role models and farther figures in society.

Tate in particular for example is filling a niche that many men completely lack and are desperate for more than ever. Which is probably why he took off as fast and hard as he did.

It doesn't help either that many of them feel all but abandoned by most of society either.

Rotterdammerung posted...

So for women to have more agency in who they can choose as a partner is a bad thing?

I am not saying it is a bad thing. The question this topic is asking is why are men into that group of people. The dating dynamics shifting has led them to that group. Another talking point which am also simplifying since these people tend to talk for 20-30 minutes on subjects is that the majority of people in college are women. And college/school is one of the places people find their partner at.

This is just relationship stuff there is also political and social stuff but the social stuff might be way more offensive to repeat. Than the relationship talking points.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

I know you said no sexism but men suck

I'm a man and I still agree with this but I'm gonna say most men suck

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Weird second time today I've seen some weird "helped induce mu sisters labor" post

At least those are just weird. My father decided to drive fast down a really bumpy road without forewarning in an attempt to induce labor with my mom. Didn't work just pissed her off

Anyways idk I don't do podcasts. Co worker put Rogan on one day and it was just conspiracy theory bullshit he and whomever his guest where talking about.

He comes off plesant enough I suppose and doesn't sound like a total idiot by the way he speaks (ignoring what he's actually saying)

I don't know how to tell you this, but....

bsp77 posted...

Someone constantly getting into arguments about how men have everything stacked against them, and sees it all as society's fault. He and Gladius have epic arguments.

Yuck.

Prismsblade posted...

Men dont really have much in the way of famous motivational speakers to look listen to for advice and look up to due to the lack of male role models and farther figures in society.

Tate in particular for example is filling a niche that many men completely lack and are desperate for more than ever. Which is probably why he took off as fast and hard as he did.

It doesn't help either that many of them feel all but abandoned by most of society either.

Oh my goodness, are you kidding, my sibling in humanity. How many motivational speakers are women? How many motivational speakers are men?

Rogan was cool during Fear Factor, never really got into UFC so its probably been 20 years or whenever that show ended since I cared about him.

The other 2 I know absolutely nothing about so thankfully Im not one of the people obsessing over these 3.

Rotterdammerung posted...

I don't know how to tell you this, but....

Look I barely listened to him cause I had work to do. I already know how people around here feel about him. And conspiracy theory stuff already makes me think you aren't all there in the head

Just saying the way he talks I can see how SOME people get the impression he knows what he's talking about.

They all have different appeals to different types of men imo. Joe Rogan is just a funny bro, people know him from TV and UFC, plus his podcast is entertaining. I feel like the latter two are more looked to for guidance, whereas Joe is more just entertainment. Jordan Peterson is an accomplished clinical psychologist, who before he spiraled out of control, produced high quality content in the forms of his lectures and books (all without any political grifts). Andrew Tate appeals to a more specific niche of angry white men, including incels, who are falling for the grift.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Look I barely listened to him cause I had work to do. I already know how people around here feel about him. And conspiracy theory stuff already makes me think you aren't all there in the head

Just saying the way he talks I can see how SOME people get the impression he knows what he's talking about.

He doesn't.

At least with Tate it's just a typical case of a con getting lucky. Sort of like Trump in a sense.

Peterson is a case of someone that originally may or may not have had a point that basically went off the deep end.

I don't watch Rogan so I can't speak about him.

As for why you see so many men like them... to be honest. I'm not entirely sure. I think part of it, at least, is due to social justice discourse way back in the early 2010s pretty much changed how people think of things for the worse. If I was a young man who grew up on the internet then and was constantly barraged with checking your privilege and how straight men is on easy mode, and young man was not actually on easy mode... it's kinda easy to see how they might find someone like Peterson and Tate sympathetic.

...I suppose you can also argue this is how Trump got into power in the first place.

The only light in the tunnel I can see is that a lot of people over time can see them for who they really are and get away from it all. We've seen it plenty of times this election campaign. They'll always have their most ardent supporters, and those people might be lost forever.

This also from someone who in the past was a bit sympathetic with Peterson way in the past, though I'm unsure if you could ever call me a huge supporter. Of course I think the guy probably needs to get some meds nowadays, if he ever was stable to begin with.

A few months ago I ran into this video of some psychiatrist talking about what gravitates guys to Tate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQqeOBTZ3gE&t=29s&ab_channel=Speeches2Succeed

I'm not well versed in psychology, but his points make sense. He doesn't mention how the societal patriarchy obviously caused the phenomenon, but it seems like that's where he stands from his "there absolutely is a patriarchy" comment.

I've been listening to Rogan since 2010. It was a fun, stupid stoner podcast where he had loose conversations about martial arts, animals, and gross-out humor, but it has definitely changed for the worse. He used to always say ads in the middle of podcasts suck because they interrupt the conversation yet his Spotify deal did exactly that.

I still admire that Rogan tends to keep it real, whether the things he says are dumb or smart. He has stories or will give real-time advice to his guest on not listening to corporate higher-ups and managers micromanaging stupid things and that everyone should just be themself. This is when he's likable. However, he's definitely changed over the decade and I only selectively listen to interesting guests now. As soon as he starts bemoaning wokeness for the billionth time I'm out.

Jordan Peterson, however, completely baffles me. Andrew Tate, I can stretch my mind and understand how his stupid persona appeals to insecure men. The guy was a good kickboxer so he has something from his background other grifters don't have (all the "alphas" who don't look like they've touched a barbell in their life lol).

Beats me. My mom taught me that true strength comes from the inside, and that being kind, helpful and tolerant is what makes you a worthy human being that you can be proud of. People like Tate & Co. always appeared to be weak in my eyes.

Insecurity

Jagus posted...

Stuff like this is honestly part of why Im non-binary. I dont identify with these stupid podcasts, concepts of toughness and toxic masculinity, belief in gender roles, etc. these things are all upheld a lot by guys.

plus all the screaming and threats

Not trying to be question you or anything else, but I don't find it hard to be a man and reject that BS. I have some masculine traits for sure, but also some that are prototypically feminine, such as sharing my feelings, communication style and types of intimacy I enjoy. My wife and I don't really care about gender roles. We tend to adhere to some and ignore others, which ultimately means that they don't matter. With 2 people and 2 sets of typical roles, just by random default, some would match and some would not.

bsp77 posted...

Not trying to be question you or anything else, but I don't find it hard to be a man and reject that BS. I have some masculine traits for sure, but also some that are prototypically feminine, such as sharing my feelings, communication style and types of intimacy I enjoy. My wife and I don't really care about gender roles. We tend to adhere to some and ignore others, which ultimately means that they don't matter. With 2 people and 2 sets of typical roles, just by random default, some would match and some would not.

I know in reality men can be any which way and I think thats cool. I just find myself constantly alienated by my surroundings is probably what I shouldve said. In reality my identity isnt based on others actions. But my surroundings do make me question if Im part of the in-group

like my acquaintance kept asking me what game would be good for a girl, and idk wtf to say to him. I just said Xenoblade, or Breath of the Wild. then he said no, she likes animal crossing. So I said zelda links awakening remake. Then he said no.

???? I dont know what men think is for girls, maddening

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


exactly! A girl could like anything. My friends tend to be very individualistic so idk how to even make generalizations lol.

Jagus posted...

I know in reality men can be any which way and I think thats cool. I just find myself constantly alienated by my surroundings is probably what I shouldve said. In reality my identity isnt based on others actions. But my surroundings do make me question if Im part of the in-group

Do whatever works for you and I support it

like my acquaintance kept asking me what game would be good for a girl, and idk wtf to say to him. I just said Xenoblade, or Breath of the Wild. then he said no, she likes animal crossing. So I said zelda links awakening remake. Then he said no.

???? I dont know what men think is for girls, maddening

Well, women aren't a monolith so not a question with a real answer.

Many women do like Animal Crossing, but my wife finds it boring. She LOVES Breath of the Wild though.

I cant speak to Joe Rogan because I only really know him from Fear Factor and UFC. He seems like a likable enough guy so people who listen to his podcast for entertainment are probably more open minded to his ideas and positions than they might be to a stranger more generally.

Andrew Tate, I only know from people on the internet complaining about him. Hes physically fit, I guess.

Jordan Peterson, I read about half of 12 Rules before losing interest, but it didnt strike me as overtly offensive or evil (unlike his online persona). Probably some people read it, found wisdom in it and latched on from there. Hes gone completely insane though, so its hard to say why people stick around.

I guess their audience consists of people who otherwise dont feel spoken to. They probably also embody something of what the audience would like to be (wealthy, physically fit, whatever).

More boys need to start looking to the Uncle Iroh's as a positive role model and an example of what a man should be.

LeCh0nk posted...

More boys need to start looking to the Uncle Iroh's as a positive role model and an example of what a man should be.

yeah, or Jon Stewart, Mr. Rogers, Superman, Sufjan Stevens, etc