Current Events > Why is grass such ass in Pokemon games?

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's super effective against rock, ground, and water, but literally is resisted by 7 types, and is weak against 5 types. It seems like grass pokemon just suck most of the time >_>

I think the main reason it's not very good is because it's resisted by seven types and is weak against five types.

Grass makes the first 3rd of the FRLG a breeze.

Because grass rhymes with ass, and rhyming has power.

Id say bug probably has it the worst if anything. Most bugs are literally designed as early game fodder with attacks to reflect that

NeonPhoenix posted...

It's super effective against rock, ground, and water, but literally is resisted by 7 types, and is weak against 5 types. It seems like grass pokemon just suck most of the time >_>

You're leaving out the fact it resists 4 types (water, grass, electric, and ground). And it's not a bad type. Compare it to say, ice, which only only resists 1 type, is weak against 4 (or 5) types, is only SE vs 2 types (ground -- which has a million better counters -- and dragon), and is resisted by.... 4-6 types iirc?

And grass has usually been the best starter pick simply because you run into so many water and rock types in the game.

not weak to rock, which already makes it viable.

And generally our ass is grass.

because the need weak pokemon to fill the first areas and grass is usually it

WingsOfGood posted...

because the need weak pokemon to fill the first areas and grass is usually it

id say bug fits that niche more honestly

As i said in an earlier post many bugs are literally made solely to evolve fast early game and then are quickly outpaced

dragon claw from sceptile anyone?

WingsOfGood posted...

because the need weak pokemon to fill the first areas and grass is usually it

Just once, a rookie trainer should venture into Route 1's grass and be eaten by a Lv100 Lugia. That'll teach someone to get a lawnmower.

Shotgunnova posted...

Just once, a rookie trainer should venture into Route 1's grass and be eaten by a Lv100 Lugia. That'll teach someone to get a lawnmower.

There's a comic somewhere like that where it's people starting their Pokemon journey in the eighth gym town, so they're immediately slaughtered by level 50 Pokemon.

it's actually one of the best types in comp typically fwiw

mons like whimsicott, amoonguss, rillaboom at least

Darkfire12 posted...

it's actually one of the best types in comp typically fwiw

mons like whimsicott, amoonguss, rillaboom at least

status effects are huge in competitive so it makes sense why grass works better there

They're immune to powder status attacks if i remember correctly

Im guessing the design philosophy in gen 1 was to make grass have a bunch of disadvantages to make up for them having more ways to apply status than other types through the powder moves.

Also I wouldnt say theyre ass, as theres been some very strong grass types in just about every gen where their grass typing isnt a hindrance and even a boon in some cases.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

status effects are huge in competitive so it makes sense why grass works better there

They're immune to powder status attacks if i remember correctly

yeah they are mostly bc amoonguss is sch a menace

Victreebel, Exeggutor and Venusaur are strong in gen 1 and Meganium is strong in gen 2. Not sure about what comes after that though.

I think there are a few factors to it. First, let's get the obvious one out of the way: Game Freak isn't exactly a particularly competent developer and more over they aren't exactly aiming for competitive balance in their monster catching game that needs to be beatable by barely-literate children. So from the jump this is an uphill battle.

It's made even more difficult by the fact that the type effectiveness and resistance has to at least sort of make sense, because again, this game needs to be understandable by children. Types are gonna have logical weaknesses. And unfortunately, plants have a lot of real life weaknesses. So it gets the short end of the stick.

Finally, I don't think Game Freak ever intended for Grass to be a strong offensive or defensive type. It was the utility type. It had status powders and leech seed and what not. The problem is that it's utility aspects diminished as other types got more and more non-attacking moves.

Nah, some of the most used mons are grass. Theyre immune to powder moves, have synergy on Sun teams, and are strong against water and ground - two of the best types offensively.

I always thought grass itself was an awesome type in gen 1, all grass pokemon are neutered though due to all having a secondary poison typing, which is one of the crappier types. Tangela is the only pure grass

haloiscoolisbak posted...

I always thought grass itself was an awesome type in gen 1, all grass pokemon are neutered though due to all having a secondary poison typing, which is one of the crappier types. Tangela is the only pure grass

Being part poison was only a liability vs psychics (well, and losing the ground resistance). However, it had the MASSIVE benefit of making them impossible to poison. And poison effects were annoying as hell, especially in gen 1 where Pokemon still fainted outside of battle from it (which was changed later on to remove the effect when the Pokemon hit 1 hp)

Count_Drachma posted...

Compare it to say, ice, which only only resists 1 type, is weak against 4 (or 5) types, is only SE vs 2 types (ground -- which has a million better counters -- and dragon), and is resisted by.... 4-6 types iirc?

I agree that it's ice (because it's weak to some of the most common types in the series, and only resists ice), but it's super effective against 4 types; you left off grass and flying.

It is strange how bad they chose to make grass in relation to the other starters. If bug and ice are the worst two types I'd honestly throw grass in as the third worst for most games for the main "story".

Grass is pretty amazing in inverse battles, though.

I mean, it's grass. Literal grass.

Fire burns stuff. Oh no my house is on fire.

Water, I mean, you gotta have a lot of it, but it can destroy stuff too. Oh no my house is underwater.

Grass? What does grass do? Let's be extra generous and say we can include vines and weeds. Oh no, there's a vine growing up the side of my house. Like, not only is that not as urgent, not only is it easier to handle, but the only way it could even happen at all is if you just neglected the yard for literal months.

Sure, I'm not saying that you can't get structural damage from vegetation, if you just let your yard become a jungle and leave it that way for years, decades, whatever. But that's exactly the point. You have to just completely ignore it for it to be a threat.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

I mean, it's grass. Literal grass.

Fire burns stuff. Oh no my house is on fire.

Water, I mean, you gotta have a lot of it, but it can destroy stuff too. Oh no my house is underwater.

Grass? What does grass do? Let's be extra generous and say we can include vines and weeds. Oh no, there's a vine growing up the side of my house. Like, not only is that not as urgent, not only is it easier to handle, but the only way it could even happen at all is if you just neglected the yard for literal months.

Sure, I'm not saying that you can't get structural damage from vegetation, if you just let your yard become a jungle and leave it that way for years, decades, whatever. But that's exactly the point. You have to just completely ignore it for it to be a threat.

This guy's never heard of kudzu.

Murphiroth posted...

This guy's never heard of kudzu.

Please.

It's fast-growing by plant standards, but you're still not going to watch it in real time.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

Please.

It's fast-growing by plant standards, but you're still not going to watch it in real time.

You're still drastically underestimating the damage plant growth can do. What a shocker that you don't know what you're talking about.

Murphiroth posted...

You're still drastically underestimating the damage plant growth can do. What a shocker that you don't know what you're talking about.

Look at that, CE still reads the first three words of a post and quotes the whole thing.

Rapid plant movements and auxin movements can be perceived by the eye in real time.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

Look at that, CE still reads the first three words of a post and quotes the whole thing.

Look at that, Devs posting confidently like he knows things when it's incredibly evident that he knows nothing.

Murphiroth posted...

Look at that, Devs posting confidently like he knows things when it's incredibly evident that he knows nothing.

Look at what

How you gonna just say "look at that" and not tell me what I'm looking at

Count_Drachma posted...

You're leaving out the fact it resists 4 types (water, grass, electric, and ground). And it's not a bad type. Compare it to say, ice, which only only resists 1 type, is weak against 4 (or 5) types, is only SE vs 2 types (ground -- which has a million better counters -- and dragon), and is resisted by.... 4-6 types iirc?

And grass has usually been the best starter pick simply because you run into so many water and rock types in the game.

Ice is also SE against Grass and Flying

It's really fucking good as a secondary typing.

Count_Drachma posted...

And grass has usually been the best starter pick simply because you run into so many water and rock types in the game.

Gen 1 is the only gen where the grass starter has been the best pick, in many of the games is actually the worst pick. Also most of the games (notably barring B&W) the most common water types you run into are the wingull line and the tentacool line which are not weak to grass.

I have always just viewed grass as a weaker water type. Gotta have water for surf and it does the same job the grass type does early on with ground/rock + fire and then you get to the parts where you gotta surf through water routes and the grass type doesn't carry it's weight by notably being neutral to so many water types.

Grass is an alright defensive type at least and has been for many gens

BlackScythe0 posted...

Gen 1 is the only gen where the grass starter has been the best pick

it's not the best pick in gen1 either that's squirtle

I just want Grass to have an Elite Four member. Even Bug does.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I don't do/know competitive.

kirbymuncher posted...

it's not the best pick in gen1 either that's squirtle

??? o.0

Everyone is discussing in circles because some people are talking casual play, some people are talking competitive, and some people are talking in competitive but for other generations.

Gamefreak likes to typecast certain stat distributions into certain types. Grass got typecasted as bulky stall pokemon for a while. Which sucks for casual play but works for competitive play. Additionally, Gamefreak just forgot to make grass moves for a long time. Lots of grass pokemon were stuck with shit like Giga Drain for a while, making them even worse for casual play. There's also something to be said about the fact that there's certain really good moves that Gamefreak allowed tons of pokemon to learn for some reason. Like for some reason Earthquake is all over the place. And more relevant here, for some reason almost every water pokemon can learn Ice Beam. So fundamentally grass is supposed to counter water but it can also get hit by (non-STAB) super-effective attacks from almost every water.

For competitive play it's whatever - every type has a niche somewhere. But the vast majority of people are not playing competitive play.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Gen 1 is the only gen where the grass starter has been the best pick, in many of the games is actually the worst pick. Also most of the games (notably barring B&W) the most common water types you run into are the wingull line and the tentacool line which are not weak to grass.

I have always just viewed grass as a weaker water type. Gotta have water for surf and it does the same job the grass type does early on with ground/rock + fire and then you get to the parts where you gotta surf through water routes and the grass type doesn't carry it's weight by notably being neutral to so many water types.

idk if the singer crocodile guy's better for speedruns but meowscarada's also the best pick for gen 9, just crazy physical sweeper

rillaboom's also a total monster in competitive but idk how well he does in his home game since i've never played gen 8

that's still only two or three though yeah (and chesnaught/decidueye/serperior/meganium are all the worst of their gens)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


We're having two different discussions. I'm pointing out that grass fails at what it should do in game and why I consider it the third worst type you respond with a single good pokemon.

Basically everyone agrees bug is the worst type right? Doesn't mean people think Scizor and Volcarona are bad.