Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Richter, Alucard, Aigis and Tusk vs. MG RAY, Tidus, Garrus, Shepard

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tidus solos

Unpopular opinion I think Alucard + Richter dominate Tidus

They just have too many water usable tech between alucard's spells/weapon selection and Richter item crashes. Richter in particular is basically normal mobility in the water with his dash and uppercut-- you literally have Underwater areas in SotN they don't have any issues.

Like to me this is

Can Alucard + Tusk destroy Ray quickly (they can)
Can Tidus be dealt with afterwards (don't see why he can't)

Aigis and the ME people aren't very useful on this terrain. Aigis is probably the best of the three since I assume she has persona skills (I am only really aware of her from Arena)

Lopen posted...

Like to me this is

Can Alucard + Tusk destroy Ray quickly (they can)
Can Tidus be dealt with afterwards (don't see why he can't)

Aigis and the ME people aren't very useful on this terrain. Aigis is probably the best of the three since I assume she has persona skills (I am only really aware of her from Arena)

Yes she has full persona skills, including extremely strong AoE physical spells and Freidyne which is nuclear magic

Also Tidus will hardly be able to scratch Tusk. If they were 1v1 and Tusk was frozen in place the entire time itd take ages for him to actually do meaningful damage

Oh so yeah

Aigis spells also pierce Ray

That thing probably dies in a few seconds. It's like everyone has Raiden's Blade mode and can just unload on it (unfortunately Richter himself does not-- the 1000 blades Crash would be so cool against it)

So my general thoughts:

-I don't see what stops Alucard from just kinda infinitely platforming through this and easily clearing.
-RAY is super dead. Tusk does a sword throw underwater, Alucard moves over and slashes him to death, Richter does a forward charge? Goes right through the guy due to Richter's passive.

-Aigis isn't useful for much other than acting as a healbot. This is incredibly useful for Alucard specifically, who otherwise I think gets ganked pretty fast. Aigis can also actively use her Aegis Shielding to patch up her lightning weakness to make her an aggro draw for Shep and Garrus.

-I'm not sure Tidus has the DPS to contribute enough here? Like against Richter, definitely. Against Alucard, likely given the mobility difference. He's not doing a single thing to Tusk or Aigis.

-Floating mines I give a lot of credit for immediate disruption. Won't kill anyone I don't think, but requires Aigis to immediately go into heal mode.

-I need to be refreshed on ME Gun Lore. If Shepard is doing ridiculous damage with Garrus, big. If they are trying to snipe underwater with guns that behave normally against a team that is constantly healing featuring a dude who survived an orbital drop and walked it off (Tusk), I think that's bad for them!

Gun Lore: They fire by Weird Scifi Nonsense shrinking the mass of the bullet so the slug velocity hits impossible speeds. Also as far as I remember the guns don't actually fire bullets, they shave pieces off an existing block of metal in the gun and then rocket that off to kill things

As for how it would work underwater I don't think there's ever an underwater fight in Mass Effect, 'lol'

Did some cursory research. Water is apparently around 750 times as dense as regular air pressure. However, the initial round that's fired off would not rely on any recoil or energy or require any mechanism for the gun to work through.

I also learned that apparently "supersonic speeds" are not enough for ME guns to actually work and they theoretically have infinite range but actually stop short so the guns are all scientifically stupid?

What I'm gleaning is that Shepard and Garrus, at the very least, definitely have one good shot in them each, and they're ridiculously skilled enough to get it. Follow ups I'm not confident on because it's working through two forms of nonsense science between Mass Effect and the waterball's physics.

Theoretically infinite range but the rounds are designed to shatter on impact so they don't just keep going through a target and kill Jar Jar Binks picking his nose on another planet. At least I think that was the logic

Lopen posted...

The ray probably takes up half the Luca sphere pool. Bigger body of water I could see this being a problem

Alucard needs his heaven rocket swords from Harmony of Despair that would seal it

What? I swear I didn't read this why is this of all things in his write up

Alucard with Richter advice wins

They're in SotN, believe it or not! And they're there since he pretty much uses those attacks in the anime too so like, why not, may as well

Also, strongly leaning Tusk and Alucard smash here. Open to arguments, but my thinking is this:

A) Tusk is straight up the best man on either team in these conditions. I know most people don't know him, but he's Super Conan. He's to Conan what Master Chief is to a USMC marine, if that gives you any idea. Why did I pick this example? Because much like Chief, Tusk tanks a fall from thousands of meters above the ground and lives. Except, y'know, without a power armour lmao

He also has a blade made of Super Stuff that cuts unobtainium like it doesn't exist in his home world. He can TK control it, meaning water is not going to impede him. Couple this with shredding armour and it's like, what are Shep and Garrus going to do here? He just commands it to cut them and they die cause they can't dodge.

B) Alucard is here and is profoundly tanky and has attacks that can deal with Tidus even if you think Tusk cannot hit him for some reason. Soul Steal doesn't miss and refreshes his HP, and while Tidus has drain attack, he has to actually get close to do something with it, which is a TERRIBLE idea.

C) If Aigis lives (this is an if, I don't buy it, but I am discussing it for the sake of completeness), she has binding effects from Persona Q, IIRC. These make it so enemies cannot move. This neuters Tidus' mobility advantage. I think she gets blown up by Garrus instantly but it ends up not being relevant.

So yeah. I don't think Tidus can carry this and he's basically all alone because RAY is very nerfed in water and Garrus and Shep cannot escape the telekinetic onslaughts coming their way, while Tusk is monster tanky and will just beat him over time. That's all.

...how on earth is Ray nerfed in water. It's Ray

Yeah, it may not have the water cannons, but I haven't seen anything that implies that the MG:R RAY doesn't have the same mobility as MGS2 RAY.

DeathChicken posted...

...how on earth is Ray nerfed in water. It's Ray

Weakened or unavailable laser cannon (it relies on heat. Water is great for heat dissipation), and it's fighting against friction to use its blade. The missiles also don't work well in water. I don't think any of these are controversial? It can munch people with its 'jaws', but that's not its primary method of attack. The machineguns also prolly don't work well in water either.

i'm willing to bet a machine made to fight in water probably chose a laser wavelength that water absorbs poorly

NFUN posted...

i'm willing to bet a machine made to fight in water probably chose a laser wavelength that water absorbs poorly

It was not made to fight in water, though. The Revengeance era MG Ray never fights into water, it dives into it to escape. It's capable of water mobility, not combat. Remember that Revengeance RAY shares little besides a shape and machineguns with MGS2 RAY. Its internal construction is different, it's controlled by an external AI and not an internal one, etc. etc. A plasma cannon is going to just cook its buddies alive because it will dissipate heat near the firing point first.

Also a boss famous for being slashed in two probably has that happen to it pretty easily when the entire other team can replicate Raidens feat, especially as it takes up half the goddamn arena

Yeah I think Ray is a terror here without Richter Belmont's thing

But as it is it's just a huge target to get blown up pretty quickly.

also i still maintain it gets in the way of any shot shepard wants to take even if shepard's guns work underwater

Given final votes since not worrying about 24 hours and more just lack of interest, it ended
6-4 in favor of Tidus/Shepard/Ray/Garrus

i've said it before and I'll say it again

waterball is the stupidest arena/ability and shouldn't be a thing

FFDragon posted...

i've said it before and I'll say it again

waterball is the stupidest arena/ability and shouldn't be a thing

Easiest thing then, have that be an active ability for tidus to force waterball lock, and open up the arena wide otherwise where people can enter and exit the waterball, and it's considered a sub-arena, (all actions can't go in or out of it)

...I'm kinda okay with that. At least once to see how the dynamics change instead of there always just being a subsection of "tidus solos"

The new terrain selection system should make it feel more like an ability with a cooldown period. It makes it much harder for a leader to try to force the fight onto the same terrain week in, week out.

even still I've never liked the fact that a relatively weak character could force an instant win with minimal planning. I'd at least demo the whole arena idea in one of these exhibitions. It would still be strong but not as oppressive.

Waterball aside, does no one else think that Richters ability to allow his ENTIRE TEAM to ignore ALL DEFENSES is just a little OP?!?

*looks at final score*

apparently not

redrocket posted...

does no one else think that Richters ability to allow his ENTIRE TEAM to ignore ALL DEFENSES is just a little OP?!?

*raises hand

FFDragon posted...

*looks at final score*

apparently not

waterball.

I mean that ability is the only reason his team even had a chance here.

redrocket posted...

Waterball aside, does no one else think that Richters ability to allow his ENTIRE TEAM to ignore ALL DEFENSES is just a little OP?!?

For what its worth it only works on mercs who have the slayer tag which is a very small minority

I hope Master Chief has it

Team Slayer is my favorite Halo mode