Current Events > so teachers are having to use AI checkers on homework and its causing problems

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https://www.tumblr.com/backin15minutes/769625852449292288/this-is-why-its-so-incredibly-important-for?source=share

i honestly dont blame teachers who have just given up and become apathetic the job just gets worse and worse with shit pay

No issues with this

VeggetaX posted...

No issues with this

maybe try reading it first before saying that

I used an AI checker to check this topic no issues

I had wondered how this would work. Im neurotypical, but when it comes to academic writing, I learned to write by mimicking other works. That's coincidentally the same way that AI learns.

I remember having to prove that i didn't plagiarize once because my writing came off as very text booky. I went into the textbook and easily found where I was getting information from and it was clearly not plagiarized. I just mimicked the tone of the book

I teach at a pretty low performing high school so it's usually very easy to tell if a student used AI or not. If I'm ever unsure, I just find a sentence or phrase that a seems a little suspicious and say to the kid "hey what does this word mean" or "can you explain this part to me"? If the word or sentence is perfect in the essay but they can't even come close to explaining it to me then I know they copied or used AI.

Teachers using AI to check papers for students using AI is proof that they are devoid of common sense.

Oh no! My post must have been written by AI because I used "devoid" in a sentence!

I guess we'll just have to come up with a better way to teach than to read from the textbook for eight hours and make the kids do a bunch of repetitive bullshit on their own time.

Imagine that.

Its hard because you want to have enough time to provide engaging lessons, you want to have enough time to provide good feedback, you want to have enough time for kids to come to their own conclusions, you want kids to have enough time to test out answers so they feel confident enough, you want kids to have enough time to practice other kids not directly relevant to a lesson but that will help them in other areas of their life, you want to have enough time for kids to work with other peers, you want enough time to connect the dots between the subjects, but the truth of the matter is that there just isnt enough time.

It sucks.. I can only do so much intervention in a given day. There are supports, of course, but they need to be pulled from the subject matter/class to work on basic foundations that makes it so their academic life is totally hectic.. not to mention the emotional support they need. I work in a district where many kids and their families are coming in illegally.

AI would be nice to utilize.. but I cant rely on it. These kids need to understand they have a voice that is uniquely them and gives them the power to express. Just wish I had the time to really work that out to their benefit.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

I guess we'll just have to come up with a better way to teach than to read from the textbook for eight hours and make the kids do a bunch of repetitive bullshit on their own time.

Imagine that.

this post has NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand

Homeschooling suddenly seems like a good option at this point, but I heard bad things about it too...

If classes were smaller, teachers/lecturers would have more 1-to-1 and small group time and be better able to gauge a students progress. Its not a perfect solution but I think its a good first step forward, but will never be taken because hiring more teachers is taboo

Clovershroom posted...

Homeschooling suddenly seems like a good option at this point, but I heard bad things about it too...

Ive heard nothing but bad things about it, since most parents arent qualified teachers and it stunts students social development

We're about to enter the age of helplessness.

AceMos posted...

this post has NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand

A typical Devsman post. He has nothing to add to any discussion because he knows and understands nothing, but you best be sure he wants to be heard!

You guys really don't see how ending homework would end plagiarized homework?

I work at a small charter school where students have to pass some tests to graduate. A lot of these tests have a sort of lockdown browser, but the state test has no equivalent. Students just pull up ChatGPT and ace the test. Students who were assessed reading at a 5th grade level turn around and score 100% on reading. We got one teacher to a room of 30 testing at once, and it takes half a second to close a tab.

And all that the state has to do is implement a secure browser when administering the test.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

You guys really don't see how ending homework would end plagiarized homework?

End school entirely and send kids to the mines and plantations instead. That will solve cheating in school entirely

Rika_Furude posted...

End school entirely and send kids to the mines and plantations instead. That will solve cheating in school entirely

Well, I like that we're thinking laterally here but let's try to find a different solution.

Raising flame shield as people are weirdly defensive about this.

Maybe we as a society have to accept that things are changing and we have to change with them. Like maybe reevaluate some of our practices.

Like teachers are upset they have to check homework to see if ai was used maybe this means how we make students do homework is outdated if it can be done by AI.

Maybe the concept of homework has to be reevaluated.

Like how about this, if you suspect a student of using AI on homework, how about call him up to the front of the class and explain his answer, throw a few follow up questions at him. if he can support his answers and shows he knows the material it doesnt matter if he used AI

hmnut7 posted...

Raising flame shield as people are weirdly defensive about this.

Maybe we as a society have to accept that things are changing and we have to change with them. Like maybe reevaluate some of our practices.

Like teachers are upset they have to check homework to see if ai was used maybe this means how we make students do homework is outdated if it can be done by AI.

Maybe the concept of homework has to be reevaluated.

Like how about this, if you suspect a student of using AI on homework, how about call him up to the front of the class and explain his answer, throw a few follow up questions at him. if he can support his answers and shows he knows the material it doesnt matter if he used AI

Thanks, you said it better than I did.

Teachers are underpaid, underresourced, underappreciated. They are not given the training and support they need. Instead, they are given classes of 30+ and wholly unrealistic expectations.

I do not begrudge them anything that makes an impossible job a tiny bit easier.

AceMos posted...

maybe try reading it first before saying that

How? It's Tumblr, they won't let you see anything without an account

I feel like a lot of people are interpreting the message here as "teachers are being lazy and using AI to check for AI in homework"

but they're not being lazy there's just not really any way to tell

Im a teacher and nah, AI shouldnt be used for writing. Especially in the state it is in, where it sounds like the aliens from the election episode of the Simpsons.

Anyone who knows writing, or has a strong grasp on linguistics or even an average grasp on English, can spot AI rhetoric immediately.

As for teachers using AI, Id imagine its the same as dumping an essay into google and catching phrases they lifted from somewhere. Not the same AI that kids are using to generate essays from.

_____Cait posted...

Im a teacher and nah, AI shouldnt be used for writing. Especially in the state it is in, where it sounds like the aliens from the election episode of the Simpsons.

the constant improvement in LLMs has made it increasingly difficult to distinguish AI-generated text from actual human writing. sure, early AI writing was often stilted and contained obvious errors but modern AI can now more or less match human quality. AI detectors used to work by looking for repeated phrases or mechanical patterns but are basically obsolete now

there's been studies which show that even expert readers can only correctly identify AI writing about 52% of the time, aka essentially random chance. there's obviously major implications for academia, journalism, and online discourse and I don't think most people are ready for it

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

We need more professors like you

Also a teacher here.

The truth is, the advent of AI just further exposed something that educators have conveniently ignored for decades: Unless you physically observe the student complete a task in a controlled and monitored environment, that task is absolutely useless for the purposes of evaluating a student's competence. Kids have been paying tutors to write papers for them since time immemorial.

There's a reason students usually score worse in math than they do in other subjects - math is the only subject where you're assessed entirely on tests where you actually have to perform. Other subjects involve work that can be completed at home, and thus so much more cheating goes on than most teachers want to admit.

What this does probably mean for education is that, to ensure true fairness and equity, we need to move entirely to assessing students on tests and nothing else. Nothing completed outside of the classroom can be used to evaluate a student. That's how it's going to have to be going forward.

As to the use of AI as an educator, I've tried to use it to generate a lesson, but I've found that I spend so much time checking over what the AI wrote that it'd be faster if I just made it myself

the constant improvement in LLMs has made it increasingly difficult to distinguish AI-generated text from actual human writing. sure, early AI writing was often stilted and contained obvious errors but modern AI can now more or less match human quality. AI detectors used to work by looking for repeated phrases or mechanical patterns but are basically obsolete now

there's been studies which show that even expert readers can only correctly identify AI writing about 52% of the time, aka essentially random chance. there's obviously major implications for academia, journalism, and online discourse and I don't think most people are ready for it

Feels we are rapidly going to a place were if society does not give a life wage most won't be able to have a living because AI will have taken most jobs. And its just at the point were more and more pepole want to have no mercy to " losers" so its not good.

Also the whole point of Homework is for them to double down on what they learn, without that, its just making tests be do or die proof that they are paying attention.

Necronmon posted...

Feels we are rapidly going to a place were if society does not give a life wage most won't be able to have a living because AI will have taken most jobs. And its just at the point were more and more pepole want to have no mercy to " losers" so its not good.

This is true but this has nothing to do with AI, and everything to do with humans are trash.

In the 80s when general automation started taking factory jobs, people were saying "It's your fault you should have gotten a college degree and then you would not be replaced by a machine"

In the 2000s when people with college degrees couldn't find jobs people were saying "It's your fault, you should have gotten a degree in STEM, and then you would have a job."

And now in 2020s AI can do a lot jobs we thought were 'safe' for humans and people know that society won't help them through this transition, because we never do that, so people are freaking out.

But my thing is....
It's not AI. It's society (specifically capitalism).

We as a society could decide today to use AI for the betterment of all of humanity and probably within a decade or two have a utopia.... but that would require NOT treating those displaced by AI as if they are the lowest rung in a caste system. But rather support them during the changing times. Maybe USE AI to help them in the evolving society.

But we'd never do that.

We'll use AI like we use all technology, as a weapon in a class war, a tool for the rich to get rich and turn the poor against each other.

Necronmon posted...

Feels we are rapidly going to a place were if society does not give a life wage most won't be able to have a living because AI will have taken most jobs. And its just at the point were more and more pepole want to have no mercy to " losers" so its not good.

We're certainly getting there. Alternatively, we may reach the point that John Maynard Keynes predicted and finally get to a 15-hour work week.

The thing is, a lot of jobs are honestly not even necessary, and only exist because it's a societal norm for them to exist. An anthropologist named David Graeber wrote a book called Bullshit Jobs where he made a case that about half of the work we as a society do for "work" is pretty pointless and could simply not exist without anyone noticing anything one way or another.

Even as an educator...I know that some of the stuff I do matters, but a pretty big portion of my job is dedicated to simply covering my ass and crossing my t's and dotting my i's so that I don't get in trouble.

kirbymuncher posted...

the constant improvement in LLMs has made it increasingly difficult to distinguish AI-generated text from actual human writing. sure, early AI writing was often stilted and contained obvious errors but modern AI can now more or less match human quality. AI detectors used to work by looking for repeated phrases or mechanical patterns but are basically obsolete now

there's been studies which show that even expert readers can only correctly identify AI writing about 52% of the time, aka essentially random chance. there's obviously major implications for academia, journalism, and online discourse and I don't think most people are ready for it

Oh yeah, no one called me out for it or anything but this entire post was barely-edited AI. stop acting like it's some completely unnatural thing that sounds nothing like normal english. especially in an education setting, writing essays which are often marked with rubrics designed to make the writing as mechanical and formulaic as possible, it will blend in very well

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Oh, for sure. Students are lazier than they've ever been, which is why nationwide reading and math scores haven't rebounded since the pandemic. Approximately 21% of American adults are illiterate, after all. There's no surprise that their kids would take after them.

Just cut out the middle men and replace the students with ai.

VeggetaX posted...

No issues with this

maybe try reading the fucking page.

It's false flagging legit homework.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/afb6f3ee.jpg