Current Events > Persona 5 never knows when to shut up (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Doing the artist guy scenario. Artist kid just got his persona. There is like a 30 minute cutscene and setpiece before, and a 15 minute one after. All that happens is that the group decides they need to open a door.

A normal game would just have you find a button, or if you wanna be cute, go to the real world and solve a puzzle. Nah, P5, like usual, has to be a drama queen about it and make a long cutscene about teen nudity, then have a villain monologue, then another one in the mind palace, then another cutscene about how the group feels, and then an SNS with the crew repeating how they feel.

Why is this game like this. I dont remember P2-4 being this way.

I notice this with a lot of recent RPGs. Xenoblade 3 was similar, with characters always reaffirming Noah about how much they love him, and how good his ideas are, and Pokemon, which never had good writing, but does the same thing.

The vibe is different and basically the game uses a lot of flowery verbiage to hide the fact that it wants to gaslight you into believing the core party is always right and every adult is always a horrible person and their actions as the party are unquestionably correct because reasons. Persona 5 is about abdication of responsibility imo.

It's the reason why 5 is the only one I haven't finished more than once. There are too many times where you're just listening to people talk and you can't do anything meaningful for extended periods of time.

CreekCo posted...

The vibe is different and basically the game uses a lot of flowery verbiage to hide the fact that it wants to gaslight you into believing the core party is always right and every adult is always a horrible person and their actions as the party are unquestionably correct because reasons. Persona 5 is about abdication of responsibility imo.

The game absolutely does not ever claim every adult is horrible. Several of your social links are adults ffs

The game absolutely has a lot of flaws in terms of pacing and the message its trying to convey isnt always perfectly executed, but lets not make up shit for no reason

The game repeating itself is certainly its biggest flaw.

Also, sometimes the tone is vastly different in different parts of the game. It is like the people who wrote the different arcs in the game really didn't talk enough with each other. This was also an issue with Persona 4, perhaps even more. Yosuke is written vastly different after the first dungeon arc is complete for example.

The feel of P5 is really good and immersive to its universe, but to obtain that it decided to torpedo its pacing.

I'm currently playing P3 for the first time and my god everything moves along so much faster.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

The feel of P5 is really good and immersive to its universe, but to obtain that it decided to torpedo it's pacing.

I'm currently playing P3 for the first time and my god everything moves along so much faster.

I agree completely with your persona 5 critique, but i gotta ask how far into persona 3 you are lol.

I feel both games have severe pacing issues for very different reasons

Not that far >_> I'm doing stuff in Tartarus but I haven't had a progression lock yet.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Not that far >_> I'm doing stuff in Tartarus but I haven't had a progression lock yet.

Enjoy it. I personally like Tartarus a lot despite the hate it gets lol

3 is definitely a very different game than 5 lol

I genuinely think that you could cut out a good 50% of the dialogue, and the game would be improved for it

I disagree, I like when these games especially rpgs blab on and on endlessly with inane dialogue.

Deej posted...

I genuinely think that you could cut out a good 50% of the dialogue, and the game would be improved for it

Most of that 50% is literally just the characters repeating what we already know too

The way it explains itself at least twice every step of the way was such a strange decision

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Enjoy it. I personally like Tartarus a lot despite the hate it gets lol

3 is definitely a very different game than 5 lol

I'm enjoying it more than Mementos, though that could change. I'm kind of expecting for Tartarus to be it and the game to not have unique dungeons like the palaces, in which case it could get rather boring. So far it's fine, though.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

I'm enjoying it more than Mementos, though that could change. I'm kind of expecting for Tartarus to be it and the game to not have unique dungeons like the palaces, in which case it could get rather boring. So far it's fine, though.

Its different. It is more of an endurance run. Tartarus has good atmosphere and each area is a different vibe which is enough for what it is at the core. But unique dungeons would have been nice, but I guess it was this was because Persona was not popular at all when 3 came out and seems pretty low budget for what a ps2 game was at the time. Surprised it even got an English release in the first place. Most people didnt even know about the series until 4 blew up somehow.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Most of that 50% is literally just the characters repeating what we already know too

The way it explains itself at least twice every step of the way was such a strange decision

Makoto's *gasp* "Useless?" damn near killed me from laughter
I wasn't used to games playing flashbacks of events that happened 30 seconds earlier

CreekCo posted...

Persona 5 is about abdication of responsibility imo.

Final boss of Royal makes this even crazier to say than it already is

Deej posted...

Makoto's *gasp* "Useless?" damn near killed me from laughter
I wasn't used to games playing flashbacks of events that happened 30 seconds earlier

that shit is so funny lmao

Like bruh we heard it the first time we do NOT need to see a scene that was heavily emphasized a second time within a minute of it happening

Honestly 5s dungeons are kind of a sour subject for me because I like the concept and the dungeons are well designed, but holy shit you cannot play a dungeon without getting stopped every 10 minutes for the team to state something incredibly obvious

I will say that absurdly slow pacing and dialogue bloat is something that a lot of modern RPGs are guilty of. A lot of them seem to enjoy being long just for the sake of being long.

P5 is certainly one of the biggest offenders, though, if not the outright biggest.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

Like bruh we heard it the first time we do NOT need to see a scene that was heavily emphasized a second time within a minute of it happening

what if you stopped playing for a month during that one minute in between and forgot all about it you might need a refresher

Deej posted...

Makoto's *gasp* "Useless?" damn near killed me from laughter

Wait... Useless!?

Deej posted...

Makoto's *gasp* "Useless?" damn near killed me from laughter
I wasn't used to games playing flashbacks of events that happened 30 seconds earlier

funnily enuf the ace attorney games do that but there it makes sense cuz since u can save anytime they have to account for ppl who saved and didn't play for awhile

kirbymuncher posted...

what if you stopped playing for a month during that one minute in between and forgot all about it you might need a refresher

Lmao this logic can be used for like all of 5 honestly

Oh you stopped playing and totally forgot everything? Dont worry the characters WILL be texting you 12 times a month about the exact thing we just discussed

Divinehero posted...

funnily enuf the ace attorney games do that but there it makes sense cuz since u can save anytime they have to account for ppl who saved and didn't play for awhile

I feel at a certain point you just have to assume your player base can remember crucial plot details

It destroys pacing when every critical moment needs a flashback and all subtlety is lost

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

I feel at a certain point you just have to assume your player base can remember crucial plot details

It destroys pacing when every critical moment needs a flashback and all subtlety is lost

AA does kinda need it with how remembering stuff is crucial to the gameplay. Still yeah for P5 it's dumb, reminds me of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon's constant flashbacks

AA I feel like often also does it to recontextualize things. you're trying to solve a mystery and constantly learning new information, and sometimes finding one piece of knowledge makes the seemingly innocuous moment from early a lot more meaningful

party_animal07 posted...

It's the reason why 5 is the only one I haven't finished more than once. There are too many times where you're just listening to people talk and you can't do anything meaningful for extended periods of time.

I feel like 3, 4, and 5 all have this issue to varying extents.

P5 makes up for any additional amount of dialogue compared to 3/4 by not being a huge chore to play

*spends a long time discussing the current events in a cut scene*

*then after its over you get the cast talking about the discussion you just had but its via cellphone texts*

i like persona 5 my ranking is 3 > 5 > 4

but dear god the pacing is worse than one piece

and then you have the final dungeon of the base game (not royal) which just goes on forever and ever multiple bosses with tons of HP and uhg

dotsdfe posted...

I will say that absurdly slow pacing and dialogue bloat is something that a lot of modern RPGs are guilty of. A lot of them seem to enjoy being long just for the sake of being long.

P5 is certainly one of the biggest offenders, though, if not the outright biggest.

part of the problem is JRPGs use to get praised for their meaty story and developers took that to heart and doubled down on it

but well not ever jrpg was a big full course meal some times your meaty story was just you getting a order of french fries

I think that part of the issue is that JRPG devs really think every character should comment on everything no matter how tangential it is to them, so a lot of dialogue scenes in heavy dialogue games like Persona are full of characters having interspersed lines just to affirm that they are also in the room.

Yeah thats the main reason its the only smt/persona game I could not finish.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

I think that part of the issue is that JRPG devs really think every character should comment on everything no matter how tangential it is to them, so a lot of dialogue scenes in heavy dialogue games like Persona are full of characters having interspersed lines just to affirm that they are also in the room.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/684d1f98.jpg

Doe posted...

P5 makes up for any additional amount of dialogue compared to 3/4 by not being a huge chore to play

4, particularly golden isnt a chore to play tho.

5s problem isnt even the amount of dialogue itself, its that probably half of it is just repeating something youre already aware of

kirbymuncher posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/684d1f98.jpg

The tendency to let EVERY. SINGLE. CHARACTER. Get a word in is also so bad.

I know its not even just 5 that does it, but by the time you get your full squad the game just doesnt let a conversation go without every character speaking at least once, no matter how little input they provide

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

that shit is so funny lmao

Like bruh we heard it the first time we do NOT need to see a scene that was heavily emphasized a second time within a minute of it happening

Eternal Sonatas infamous flashback scene is here to see you

AceMos posted...

*spends a long time discussing the current events in a cut scene*

*then after its over you get the cast talking about the discussion you just had but its via cellphone texts*

*maybe you should go to bed early*

*start the cycle again the next day*

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

The tendency to let EVERY. SINGLE. CHARACTER. Get a word in is also so bad.

I know its not even just 5 that does it, but by the time you get your full squad the game just doesnt let a conversation go without every character speaking at least once, no matter how little input they provide

Golden Sun Dark Dawn was very guilty of this.

Charged151 posted...

Golden Sun Dark Dawn was very guilty of this.

The earlier golden sun games do it as well, it's a bit harder to notice since the party size is so small and lines are so short but it's definitely there

I was an original Revelations fan. I somehow obtained the PS1 game not long after it came out. I got Eternal Punishment when it came out too. I think what attracted me to both those games as a teenager was the moody and modern setting. Eternal Punishment is one of my top 5 personal favorite games ever made.

I had 3 pre-ordered and binged it about 3 weeks college summer school in 2007. I was absolutely enthralled by the vibe, story, and even the pacing. Especially the concluding months. Upon reflection, I feel like it was the last Persona as a SMT spinoff because despite being different than SMT, it still had the dark and moody energy. Plus the characters and demon designs. The only complaint I have about it and FES was the removal of demon negotiations.

I had 4 collectors edition pre-ordered and beat it in grad school. It did not catch my fancy. I liked the game well enough, but I did not get into it all. It was overall, for me at least, too cheesy, too silly, and the stakes seemed low.

As a full on adult, with a real job and such, I pre-ordered 5. Fancy edition. I made it right to the part the OP is referencing and just dropped it. I didn't like the game much. I could tell it was well made but the story and vibe just soured me. It did not invoke feelings the early games did in me at all. It came off as almost escapist and juvenile.

Eternal Punishment focused a lot on what growing up and becoming and adult meant. How your life changes and how you move on into adulthood. The cast was full on adults with real jobs and adult problems. I still think it is a compelling story. 3, like Revelations and Innocent Sin, focused on kids but had such somber and dark stories with real stakes. SMT vibes abound. 4 diminished a lot of this and felt like a Saturday morning cartoon that happened to be TV-13 and not TV-7. 5 was that but somehow cheesier.

That's my take on the series as a very early fan of it. all IMO of course. Your opinions may vary and I'm ok with that.

doesn't help that yusuke fuckin sucks either.

ironman2009 posted...

doesn't help that yusuke fuckin sucks either.

Literally the best character.

Charged151 posted...

Golden Sun Dark Dawn was very guilty of this.

it takes me out everytime it happens lol. Like i know JRPG dialogue isnt realistic and it doesnt need to be, but it feels so artificial when all 8 people say something but then 6 of them are completely ignored lmao

Like its not even a conversation anymore these people are just speaking into the void

My tastes definitely changed. I loved Golden Sun I and II. I was so hyped for Dark Dawn and got it new. I made it like 4 hours into the game and was like, yeah that's enough. Never played it again.

Charged151 posted...

Golden Sun Dark Dawn was very guilty of this.

I remember that being a huge criticism of it yeah, that's what this topic reminded me of

CreekCo posted...

The vibe is different and basically the game uses a lot of flowery verbiage to hide the fact that it wants to gaslight you into believing the core party is always right and every adult is always a horrible person and their actions as the party are unquestionably correct because reasons. Persona 5 is about abdication of responsibility imo.

Anime Rusty Venture (Sojiro Sakura) is a good person.

Reminds me of Tales of Arise

creativerealms posted...

Anime Rusty Venture (Sojiro Sakura) is a good person.

all of the adults that you have links with are good people. That dude had to have stopped super early in or just not finish several social links to come to the conclusion that the game claims all adults are bad

it's why P4 is the best