Poll of the Day > Xenoblade Chronicles 3 topic (adjl and agesboy)

(+) Yeah! (+)

This topic has SPOILERS for the game.

@adjl

Any who, I'm a bit into chapter 6 now. Not too far away from the like 2 hour long info dump of M and N stuff. Holy shit. Powerful stuff. This game is damn good, probably the best Xenoblade yet. I still maybe love the 1st the most, due to the story, how much I liked Shulk (Noah is a bit boring and passive, but the entire party in X3 is likely the best and most fleshed out), but X3 is just so well made. I'll be excited to see how this ties into the other games.

Also, Nia from X2 is the Queen, speaking of?? (I don't want answers or to have this spoiled, but the actual hell?).

I just got Triton. I fucking love this guy. I'm a sucker for wizended sailor types/pirates in fantasies tho, so he's been easy to like. Playing as a Soul Hacker seems bizarre, haven't tried it yet. Mostly exploring the sea area and quests before I proceed with the story, but I'm excited to see Colony Gamma. I've been to the area a few times already as I've leveled up. Think there's only a handful of high-level enemy places I haven't been to yet. I'm 72, so pretty overleveled for the story and whatnot.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Any who, I'm a bit into chapter 6 now. Not too far away from the like 2 hour long info dump of M and N stuff. Holy s***. Powerful stuff. This game is damn good, probably the best Xenoblade yet.

Yep. Peak fiction right there. I actually hit the end of chapter 5 really late at night when I had to be up the next morning, so I ended up going to bed after getting the chapter end save screen (with that soul-crushing silence as Mio didn't do her voiceover), and I genuinely lost sleep wondering where it could possibly go from there. Between the fact that they'd just established the cycle of reincarnation, N and M's existence implying some potential for time loop shenanigans, and the fact that they'd passed the torch to the City Ouroboros candidates, I legitimately couldn't rule out the possibility that they'd just killed off the entire party, and that was a wild place to sit for 12+ hours.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

(Noah is a bit boring and passive, but the entire party in X3 is likely the best and most fleshed out)

That was my takeaway from it. Individually, none of 3's characters (except common variety nopon) really stand out that well in a series full of strong characters, but the party dynamic and their relationships and interactions with each other are absolutely phenomenal. It did an amazing job of making it feel like I was personally on an adventure with them in a way that very, very few games can manage (and even fewer with fixed storylines).

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Also, Nia from X2 is the Queen, speaking of?? (I don't want answers or to have this spoiled, but the actual hell?).

You'll get that answer fairly shortly, along with a few more answers and even more questions.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

I just got Triton. I f***ing love this guy. I'm a sucker for wizended sailor types/pirates in fantasies tho, so he's been easy to like.

Fun fact: His VA was the combat announcer in 2. Triton is indeed awesome, and has some pretty amazing sidequests associated with him (a couple of which are pretty heartbreaking).

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Playing as a Soul Hacker seems bizarre, haven't tried it yet.

Being the Blue Mage class of the game, Soul Hacker can be hard to put to good use before you get to late/end-game content, just because you need to grab abilities from so many unique monsters (including superbosses) to flesh it out. It's ludicrously powerful once you do, but it takes quite a bit to build it to that point. I do recommend levelling it up on somebody far enough to unlock Soul Hack as a master skill (Triton himself doesn't get this), since keeping that on while you're going about your business will let you grab abilities and skills from any unique monsters you kill and cut down on the hunting you'll need to do later (getting the skill/ability with one character unlocks it for the whole party). Otherwise, though, you'll probably be better off sticking to other classes.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

I'm 72, so pretty overleveled for the story and whatnot.

That, unfortunately, is going to slow down class progress quite a bit. CP gain and not being able to delevel until postgame is definitely one of my biggest gripes with the game, especially where the sidequesting is so good. It definitely sucks that you effectively have to choose between doing sidequests and levelling up classes before postgame.

I really need to get back to Xeno 3. Think I Xenoed myself out and didn't take a long enough break between it and 2.

I started a playthrough of DE (my first time with that version, though I'd played the original several times) in April 2022, then moved on to a NG+ run of 2 where I picked up the DLC and also did Torna, then launched right into 3 when it came out. By the time I was totally done with 3 in early October, I'd been playing some Xenoblade game or other pretty continuously for 6 months, so it was a little weird to be done with it. And then FR came out and I did a NG+ run of 3 before getting right into it.

adjl posted...

Fun fact: His VA was the combat announcer in 2. Triton is indeed awesome, and has some pretty amazing sidequests associated with him (a couple of which are pretty heartbreaking).

Hah! You told me in the last topic he had a role in this one, and despite Triton sounding nothing like the announcer, something told me it was him. Damn good voice actor.

adjl posted...

Being the Blue Mage class of the game,

Soooo...(and I'll look up Soul Hacker later), does this.mean fighting the blue rank and orange rank enemies? Just the latter? And does it not count all the ones I've already killed (which is pretty much everyone I've met), or do I have to revive them? If so, are there any that are must-haves, or is it about obtaining just a lot? Higher level ones better? Actually, I've never revived a named grave...do they spawn at their OG level, or scale? What an odd ability.

Actually, I haven't noticed CP progression being bad. Pretty much every character is maxed to 10 in all classes, minus maybe 3 per where the affinity was crap and I skipped it, and im.roundijg out the Master Classes or whatever now (finally did Zeon's awful ass one that I've been ignoring). I'm on Mio's right now.

I never did Torna, although I head it was good, but I'm gonna a do FR for sure.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

And does it not count all the ones I've already killed (which is pretty much everyone I've met), or do I have to revive them?

I think if you've killed it but not gotten the ability from it, it'll tell you on the soul hack menu. It also gives you a shortcut to their location from that menu. Plus you don't need to have killed them- you just had to target them at some point and they're registered.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

If so, are there any that are must-haves, or is it about obtaining just a lot? Higher level ones better?

It's kinda hard to tell which are great and which are mediocre before getting them, but yeah, higher level enemies tend to give much better skills. You also have to soul hack skills so might as well collect all that are easily available because you might be missing something really good.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Actually, I've never revived a named grave...do they spawn at their OG level, or scale?

Original level, old ones will die fast, especially since you can fast travel to them. The item rewards stay the same, but experience/CP gets severely diminished when overlevelled.

Xenoflute chronicles:Yuna Sending Boogaloo 3

Got it, thanks for that info! Damn, looks like I'll spend an hour farming prior Unique Monsters, then. The Wiki has a handy list, luckily.

It's very good. Expansion is great as well.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Got it, thanks for that info! Damn, looks like I'll spend an hour farming prior Unique Monsters, then. The Wiki has a handy list, luckily.

It does go fairly quickly, but yeah, it's a grind. And then every skill/art has a second condition that you have to complete to upgrade it, usually something like killing the UM that gave it to you 3-5 more times or dealing X damage with the Art. The upgrades, I'd only recommend doing for the ones you actually plan on using.

adjl posted...

It does go fairly quickly, but yeah, it's a grind. And then every skill/art has a second condition that you have to complete to upgrade it, usually something like killing the UM that gave it to you 3-5 more times or dealing X damage with the Art. The upgrades, I'd only recommend doing for the ones you actually plan on using.

Yeah, saw that. Reallllllyy feels like this class should have been earlier in the game.

It would be more practical, but the class really isn't very useful until you've hacked quite a few late-game enemies and have the full arsenal of arts and skills to work with (to say nothing of the fact that it scales with your total hacks, so before you've got everything it's quite a bit weaker than everything else). Having it earlier would cut back on some tedious grinding, but the point where it does show up is reasonably good timing for "oh this is an endgame class I won't be able to use it effectively yet" without being so early that you're left wondering why they gave you something so early if it was just going to be useless all game. Even more so where you need to occupy a skill slot with Soul Hack to collect them, and that's a pretty big deal before you unlock the third slot (until level 50, iirc, which I believe also lines up pretty well with early chapter 5 when you get the class).

That said, if they just did something like having Triton read over your list of defeated monsters and teach you the Arts/skills based on his reminiscence of meeting them during his own adventures, that would be thematically consistent but also less grindy. But then Triton's got less memory than a Commodore 64 and that's kind of a key aspect of his character, so maybe that wouldn't be a good fit. I dunno. In the long run, I didn't find hunting them all to be an unpleasant grind, particularly where I had to explore some new areas to find ones I'd missed my first time through, and only grinding out the upgrades for the few of them didn't take too long, so I wouldn't call it a major design flaw.

adjl posted...

That said, if they just did something like having Triton read over your list of defeated monsters and teach you the Arts/skills based on his reminiscence of meeting them during his own adventures, that would be thematically consistent but also less grindy.

Or even just give Soul Hack to someone early (idk Taion's studying monster behaviors) and hint broadly at the ability's purpose. The gamers who would care about completion and/or blue mage jobs would probably pick up on it lol.

Or abstract it away and let you just collect the Art/skill from the list in the Soul Hacking menu with a button press, under the pretense that when you hit the button you fast travelled to the target, beat them again, and travelled back. That might honestly be the best option, since it keeps the "oh man there's a Blue Mage class" as a mid-game revelation instead of something that's hinted early, keeps the theme of "you have to actually steal the ability from them directly" going, but it also means you don't have to sit through two loading screens to go one-shot that level 3 bunny.

The way Noah and everyone pronounces "Omega" pisses me off.

Anyways, I'm ready to start Chapter 7, just haven't hopped on the vessel yet. Running around doing quests. On Sena and Ghondor's Hero Quests now, just did Noah's. So, how Mia got here makes more sense. X2 and X2's worlds reunited. Nia and Melia have to be old as hell then, long after Shulk and Rex and are dead (actually isn't Shulk essential divine by the end of X1?).

Shit is getting goooooood. I think I'm missing Triton, Juniper, Monica, and Ahsera's Hero Quests at least and Segiri. Gonna hunt those down and do that level 80 cave and whatnot before continuing the story. Oh, and I should be good to go facing Gonzalez, finally.

the translation does some things I hate (mostly renaming every single blade in dumb inconsistent ways) so I stick to japanese

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

actually isn't Shulk essential divine by the end of X1?

Pointedly not, actually. He turned down Alvis/Ontos' offer of divinity and gave up his Monado to trigger the rebirth of XC1's universe outside of Memory Space (which in turn set in motion the collision that prompted the creation of Origin). His abilities in FC and onward are of his own making, having built on the Monado Replicas to emulate the Monado's ability to control ether.

agesboy posted...

the translation does some things I hate (mostly renaming every single blade in dumb inconsistent ways) so I stick to japanese

In this case, I'm more making fun of the way Brits pronounce "Omega". Their pronunciation of "Ouroboros" throws me a bit as well. What do you mean by the Blade names?

For what it's worth, I've always thought the series as a whole has a really good VA, and sticking with mostly British actors helping out a lot.

adjl posted...
Pointedly not, actually. He turned down Alvis/Ontos' offer of divinity and gave up his Monado to trigger the rebirth of XC1's universe outside of Memory Space (which in turn set in motion the collision that prompted the creation of Origin).

Ohhh, that's right.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

What do you mean by the Blade names?

almost every name in xenoblade 2 was changed because they were all Japanese (and there's a plot reason for that), often to far more obscure references

nobody knows what a dromarch is but at least some people have heard of byakko. it's also a huge hint that certain things are connected (every one of the four guardians is at a different stage of a blade's lifecycle). also there are biblical references that got made a lot more obscure, like how all the titans are references to the seven deadly sins- they still refer to them in a roundabout way, but the Japanese names are just straight up latin. Uraya (Invidia) is referencing specific Japanese kanji in English, wtf? not every change is terrible but it's just so unnecessarily broad.

also they changed one character's name from Shin to Jin. that's still a japanese name dude!!!! and why change Glen to Godfrey. augh

Ohhh, Blades from X2. I had to ask, since "Blade" is a term used differently in all r games.

I actually don't mind the continent change. Having them all be named after the seven deadly sins warranted a lazy eye roll from me. It doesn't even really have anything to do with the plot (or at least not really. One can shoe horn a deadly sin onto almost anything).

Well, finished the game. Still have some questions on the plot, but I also bought the DLC that I will likely get into tomorrow, so I'll hold off on commentary until then. I didn't know I was gonna end the game by being in Origin that quickly, but went ahead with it anyways, despite having some Ascension quests and whatnot to fulfill, which I am doing now (my god does this game have a lot of quests in general). Might try to max out all the colony points, too, and will of course try to take down the few level 90-110 UM around.

I felt the end was a...tad disappointing? The explanation over what Z was was a little confusing (kinda thought he was gonna be Zanza in a way/another aspect of Klaus, but just Origin's AI?), but I think I got it sorted. I liked the emotional beats at the end, but felt like it lacked the world-defying epic ending I've come to know from this series. And yes, I know that's despite the worlds moving apart now, lol (won't they just try and come back together anyways?). Still, what a helluva game, with great action, areas, characters (hell, the characters and VA are so good), and unique story that binds X1 and X2 together. Really wonder where the series will go from here.

Also, any clue what the Mysterious Keycard you find mid0game ish goes to? Can't seem to find anyone online that knows. Also, really wish they would release a big book tying X1-3 together (and X? I kinda need to re-read about X, since it doesn't seem quite related?).

Excited to get to the Future Redeemed. Also, some of the islands in the sea are Titans from X2? The hell are people getting this stuff (online reading)? The Place of the Heroes was cool to finally get to, but a little underwhelming once there. Guess this confirms things were indeed falling off of both worlds.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

The explanation over what Z was was a little confusing (kinda thought he was gonna be Zanza in a way/another aspect of Klaus, but just Origin's AI?), but I think I got it sorted.

FR helps make a little bit more sense of it by revealing how Origin was structured in the first place, but it's still pretty vague. I kinda like the vagueness, though. It's led to a lot of really interesting speculation about how everything fits together that I've enjoyed wading through, which wouldn't have been possible if it were more explicit. The fact that Z's more of an idea than an actual character has definitely rubbed some people the wrong way, but I also kind of liked that, especially because it means all the sidequesting ties back into the main story (the collective unconsciousness' fear of an uncertain future is what gave Z control of Origin, most of the sidequests you do serve to help everyone in Aionios come to terms with the uncertain future that awaits them post-flame clock and therefore assuaged that fear and eroded that control).

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

And yes, I know that's despite the worlds moving apart now, lol (won't they just try and come back together anyways?).

While not explicitly stated, my impression is that when they're recreated by Origin, they're stabilized in a way that resolves the whole implied matter/antimatter problem, giving everyone time to work out how to merge them more safely. It's kind of deliberately left open, though, to align with the core message of being hopeful about an uncertain future.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Also, any clue what the Mysterious Keycard you find mid0game ish goes to?

I don't remember that off-hand. Maybe one of those big Agnian bases in Erythia? You can break into them a couple of different ways, one of which involves stealth and finding keys and such and the other of which involves not stealth and just hitting anyone in your way.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Also, really wish they would release a big book tying X1-3 together

There was an art book released for 3 a little while back that includes some interviews with Takahashi that clarify some of the more ambiguous (or outright missing) plot points, including some significant ties between the games. Definitely hold off on looking for that stuff until you've finished FR, though, because it spoils a ton of stuff.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

(and X? I kinda need to re-read about X, since it doesn't seem quite related?).

As it stands right now, X is not apparently related to 1-3. There are a couple of throwaway lines in FR that some people think might be allusions to X, and the parallels between Origin and the Lifehold are hard to miss, but otherwise there's nothing outside of Lin's Monado barrettes, Tatsu referencing a legendary heropon, and Adam Howden and Carina Reeves being options for the MC's voice, which are more easter eggs than real story connections.

However, there's a very strong chance the upcoming Definitive Edition will be doing more to tie them together, much like 1's DE retconned Alvis' key pendant into a core crystal that matched Pneuma's and Logos'. In addition to the fact that they're adding new story content (maybe even an actual ending!) which is expected to solidify where X stands, people have noticed some considerable aesthetic similarities to 3 in the updated visuals, including what look like Annihilation Effects and Ouroboros/Moebius symbolism. 3 already reused a few aesthetics from X, but they were vague enough that they could be written off as just reusing ideas and not any sort of deliberate nods (especially where, when X came out, they hadn't really committed to making an overarching Xenoblade story), but when X is being specifically updated to bear resemblance to the numbered games and we now 100% have an overarching story being told, it probably means something this time.

I joked back when X came out (and again when 2 was announced) that it was secretly titled with a Roman numeral and it was actually Xenoblade 10, but at this point I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's genuinely the case and Takahasi's telling some kind of ludicrous uber-narrative from both ends.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Also, some of the islands in the sea are Titans from X2?

Yep, Erythia is a mix of Eryth Sea and Leftheria. All of the zones mix up bits and pieces of old zones; that one's just one of the more obvious examples.

the people got mixed up too, which I think is kinda neat. lanz/sena/eunie are machina/blade/high entia mixed with human now. it's never directly addressed ingame but it's just neat

Yeah, I'm not sure what that means for lifespans outside of Aionios. Obviously cross-breeding between humans and blades is now totally possible on the Alrest side of things, as The Picture was kind enough to let us know, and humans and high entia have always been compatible, but I kind of doubt that everyone ages at the same rate and has similar lifespans when Origin isn't imposing that on them. I'm also really not sure how humans cross-bred with machina, because there are a couple of logistical issues there. I guess we'll see what things look like in 4.

Huh, I always assumed Lanz and other similar characters were some kind of new species.It had never occurred to me they were related to machina. Although, once learning that Origin combines elements from XC1 & 2s worlds to make everything in Aionios it should have perhaps become obvious it wasn't something new.

It did take me longer than I'd like to admit to realize they were machina-adjacent. In my defense, though, I have no idea how the biology of that would work and it actually doesn't mesh particularly well with the functional race-blindness everyone in Aionios seems to have (they're aware that some people have wings and some people have cat ears and some people have face spikes, but nobody seems to care any more than they'd care about a hair style). Overlooking aesthetic features is one thing, but overlooking that some people are literally robots is a bit of a stretch.

Took me a while to realize both Sena and Lanz were like that too lol. Sena even has something really close Brighid's burning hair. At least Eunie's really obvious

On X:
I'd rather they not try to tie it in, and hopefully they don't. X1-3 just does a fine job having all the overarching storyline bridge together, whereas X is wildly different. Hell, unless Alrest and Bionis merging together becomes "Earth 2.0", and thousands of years later it gets destroyed, a la the story that kicks off X, they basically can't exist together.

Also, on Lanz, etc. Holy SHIT. I can't believe I didn't notice that he, Mwamba, etc. Look like Mechina! It's been a while since I've played X1, to be fair, but damn. And for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why Sena and Cammuravi had flaming hair that NO ONE finds odd, and some have demon horns, etc. Blades. That makes sense. Her body markings make it obvious now.

Still, the entire damn game I was wondering why no one points out why the hell they are all "humans" but look wildly different. Makes sense now, although I still find it odd that no one ever ponders it in-game. Eunie and Mio made sense, especially after the story hinted why they looked like that, but it makes way more sense now.

Speaking of, there's kinda throw away lines about the Keves side needing to use Power Frames (the glowing blue circled they all have) in order to match the strength of Agnes/properly weird their Blades. It's brought up out of the blue by Riku once, and then.power frames are mentioned, like, twice ever again. So why is it Agnians are naturally stronger?

As for the photo, assuming Rex knocked up Pyra, who knocked up Mythra and Nia?

As for thr Keycard, you find it alongside clothing of a soldier (the clothing looks odd to everyone) on a quest outside of Colony 9 IIRC. It's a Key Item that sits in your inventory all game, and no one online seems to have an answer as to what it does, ir where it came from.

Also also, pretty sure it's implied Melia and Nia must be thousands of years old, since e Aionis history dates back a couple thousand years through various conversations.

I'm finally doing Segiri's ascension, my last one (aside from Melia, Nia, and the 2 DLC ones), then I may do a few quests before grinding to fight some of the end-game bosses (level 89 currently), then likely call.it quits. Went to the Hall of Heroes Past or w/e and saw that the Sword Cabity is now an area, not sure if any new.spaces opened up. Then I'll do FR, which I assume has different characters to play as?

Also, as for heroes, gotta say my favorite ended up being Triton, Ashera, Teach, and Ethel, personality wise. Alexandria is pretty good, too.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Also, on Lanz, etc. Holy SHIT. I can't believe I didn't notice that he, Mwamba, etc. Look like Mechina! It's been a while since I've played X1, to be fair, but damn. And for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why Sena and Cammuravi had flaming hair that NO ONE finds odd, and some have demon horns, etc. Blades. That makes sense. Her body markings make it obvious now.

and to continue the trend, everyone in Agnus (XC2) has extremely Japanese names in the Japanese dub, whereas Keves (XC1) people have much more western or fantasy nonsense names. they were hinting at things pretty hard right from the start

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

As for the photo, assuming Rex knocked up Pyra, who knocked up Mythra and Nia?

after you beat NG+ in 2, the title screen changes to all four of them holding hands

what do you think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvbliEAMMMY

agesboy posted...

what do you think

Ngl, I thought this outright initially. Doubly funny that all the kids appear to be the exact same age in the photo. >_> And I forget how old Rex was supposed to be, but dude grew.like 2 feet taller.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

On X:
I'd rather they not try to tie it in, and hopefully they don't. X1-3 just does a fine job having all the overarching storyline bridge together, whereas X is wildly different. Hell, unless Alrest and Bionis merging together becomes "Earth 2.0", and thousands of years later it gets destroyed, a la the story that kicks off X, they basically can't exist together.

Unless they retcon Earth's destruction at the beginning of X to be less a matter of a literal Earth-shattering kaboom and more a matter of a blinding flash that causes it to disappear (which is actually how it's described at one or more points in X, I believe). Then they exist just fine, and the White Whale escaped Earth just before Klaus did a genesis.

There are a few more points of speculation floating around, but they hinge on content from FR, so I'll hold off on digging deeper until you've gotten through that.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Speaking of, there's kinda throw away lines about the Keves side needing to use Power Frames (the glowing blue circled they all have) in order to match the strength of Agnes/properly weird their Blades. It's brought up out of the blue by Riku once, and then.power frames are mentioned, like, twice ever again. So why is it Agnians are naturally stronger?

They allude to their core crystals as being the reason. Agnians all have one somewhere (some of them aren't readily visible), so it seems that all Agnian soldiers are descended from Blades.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

As for the photo, assuming Rex knocked up Pyra, who knocked up Mythra and Nia?

"And all you guys!"

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

As for thr Keycard, you find it alongside clothing of a soldier (the clothing looks odd to everyone) on a quest outside of Colony 9 IIRC. It's a Key Item that sits in your inventory all game, and no one online seems to have an answer as to what it does, ir where it came from.

I don't remember that myself, but I've seen a couple comments suggesting that it opens a door in the City barracks. Maybe that's it?

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Also also, pretty sure it's implied Melia and Nia must be thousands of years old, since e Aionis history dates back a couple thousand years through various conversations.

Yep. Time doesn't pass the same for everyone in Aionios, depending on how Origin brought them in (coming in as an outside administrative figure vs. being generated from stored data vs. being born naturally). FR will go into that a little more, then the aforementioned art book has more explicit answers.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Went to the Hall of Heroes Past or w/e and saw that the Sword Cabity is now an area, not sure if any new.spaces opened up

That's the area that got annihilator'd when Shania tried to summon her persona. There are some high-level enemies there (85-95, iirc), plus something that only shows up after you beat the four superbosses.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...
Then I'll do FR, which I assume has different characters to play as?

Yep, the party's a whole different cast there, including a sentient pile of beans.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...
And I forget how old Rex was supposed to be, but dude grew.like 2 feet taller.

He was supposed to be 15. He had quite the glow-up.

I liked the first half of the game more than the latter half. I also liked the DLC gameplay more than the core game. That's not to say the core game is bad, but I didn't care about Noah-Mio's relationship and I didn't really like Noah as a protag. I found pretty much all other party dynamics more interesting, but the latter half of the game was hyperfocused on them, and it was annoying.
One pet peeve I have is that opening the menu = menu music. Blegh.

I also wish the consuls weren't so shallow, but upon a replay I understand why; they're based off of data from pre-existing characters in the Xeno games and they didn't want it to be too obvious. D is Gort, for example (this is the most obvious one, he looks just like the guy and is just as unhinged, but younger and more fit)... I thought he was Mumkhar at first but he's missing a lot of defining personality traits and motivations. Z is Egil as he allies himself with Shulk against a greater foe affiliated with the creation and destruction of the world, and commits atrocities to prevent annihilation. I'm in the process of sussing out which one each one is but it's taking a while, and it's harder for some than others. The key is to write down defining characteristics of old antagonists and such, and then see if they're reflected in any given consul in particular. It's been a fun thing to do on replay.

Combat is definitely the best its been in this game, though I still miss the limb targeting from X. Chain attacks, I'm not much of a fan this time; they just take so much time. However, I think the game is well thought-out. I just wish there weren't so many abilities that don't work right (Tactician being the obvious example).

A good game. I still like X more, but I had fun with this one.

Mystic_Myotis posted...

I also wish the consuls weren't so shallow

I do enjoy that you can make some inferences about the sort of person they were pre-Moebius by looking at what their Moebius powers are. Triton wanted to explore the world forever and regretted that his mortal life was too short to see everything, so as a Moebius he gained the ability to claim trophies of the strong enemies he defeated as a record of his journeys. Joran was constantly being bullied by others and convinced himself that even the people who were nice to him were just lying about how much they hated him, so as a Moebius he gained the ability to dominate whoever he wanted and make them reveal whatever they were thinking with no filters. Irma's ability was to create elaborate disguises, so we can infer that in life she had trouble fitting in by being herself and made a habit of pretending to be somebody she wasn't to manipulate others into doing what she wanted without actually making a connection with them (making her story particularly tragic because she did find a group she was comfortable with in Colony Mu and was genuinely welcomed there, but she'd backed herself into a corner with her lies and her inability to open up and ended up effectively forcing herself to betray them). Mio's biggest concern was making sure she passed on a legacy, even at the expense of her own life, so M gained the ability to literally pass her will onto others in lieu of actually being able to die and leave something behind.

Some of the powers are too non-specific to figure out anything detailed, like W's reanimation/mind control (they were obviously leaning toward evoking a child playing with dolls, but there isn't much of a character there), and some we don't even really see any powers (R, O, P) or identify anything about the character at all (L could have been a generic wild animal and nothing would have changed), but where possible it's an interesting speculative exercise.

Mystic_Myotis posted...

One pet peeve I have is that opening the menu = menu music. Blegh.

I didn't mind the menu music, but I did mind that the Chain Attack theme overwrote almost all battle themes. The Chain Attack theme is great and all, but so are many of the boss themes that you hear much less often. I also didn't like that fast travelling defaulted to making it daytime and it was therefore pretty uncommon to hear night themes for areas, despite the fact that many of the night themes are fantastic.

I've played all the XC's multiple times (though it's been a while) and re-reading this has me worried we're going to end up in kingdom hearts storytelling before too long

Eh, we'll see. So far, Xenoblade has mostly been a matter of using the ideas of Xenogears Perfect Works, taking a fresh approach to building the story Takahashi wanted to tell with Xenosaga but couldn't because the series flopped, so while it's turned into something pretty expansive and convoluted, it's all been with the aim of tying it all to pre-existing ideas. I expect we're going to see a Xenosaga tie-in sooner rather than later (*major FR endgame spoilers*)(if the blue dot at the end of FR's credits was indeed KOS-MOS and that confirms that the Earth that Klaus borked was Lost Jerusalem and his shenanigans were why it was lost, I expect Xenoblade 4 will also be Xenosaga 4), then past that it's just a matter of deciding how it should build from there. Who knows what that uncharted territory will yield?

Isn't that art book only in Japanese?

adjl posted...

Eh, we'll see. So far, Xenoblade has mostly been a matter of using the ideas of Xenogears Perfect Works, taking a fresh approach to building the story Takahashi wanted to tell with Xenosaga but couldn't because the series flopped, so while it's turned into something pretty expansive and convoluted, it's all been with the aim of tying it all to pre-existing ideas. I expect we're going to see a Xenosaga tie-in sooner rather than later (*major FR endgame spoilers*)(if the blue dot at the end of FR's credits was indeed KOS-MOS and that confirms that the Earth that Klaus borked was Lost Jerusalem and his shenanigans were why it was lost, I expect Xenoblade 4 will also be Xenosaga 4), then past that it's just a matter of deciding how it should build from there. Who knows what that uncharted territory will yield?

Always thought xenoblade doing fine with its standalone game. It's kinda sad to see they wanted to become more like kingdom hearts where everything is connected bs pororin. Xc3 worlds just a mishmash of xc2 and 1 for good measure.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Isn't that art book only in Japanese?

Officially, but there are enough fan translations of highlights floating around if you're interested.

Pororin posted...

Always thought xenoblade doing fine with its standalone game. It's kinda sad to see they wanted to become more like kingdom hearts where everything is connected bs pororin. Xc3 worlds just a mishmash of xc2 and 1 for good measure.

The goal was always to create an expansive, multi-game storyline, it just crashed and burned when they tried doing it with Xenosaga because 2 and 3 didn't do well enough to keep the series moving. Xenoblade 1 was set up as a fully standalone game (no cliffhangers, no references to previous games) mostly because they weren't sure what future the series might have and didn't want to commit themselves to another disheartening failure, but now that the series definitely has legs it's doing well building something larger-scale.

Fortunately, so far I'd say they've been doing a good job of making games that stand on their own while still contributing to a broader overarching story. You can play Xenoblade 3 without knowing anything about 1 or 2 and still understand what's happening just fine (FR, perhaps less so, because it's *much* heavier on the references). The experience is just enriched by picking up on the references and understanding the larger context.

As I understand, that's an approach (creating games that stand fine on their own even if they're part of a bigger, multi-game story) Nintendo is actually pushing on Monolith, which makes a lot of sense because they want people to be able to join the series at any point. If they're advertising Xenoblade 9 and a significant number of people say "I've played 1-4, but I don't really feel like buying and playing 8, 5, 6, and 7 in that order before buying 9," those people aren't going to buy 9 (or they are, and they'll have a bad time with it and be turned off of the rest of the series). While games are generally very good value as entertainment media goes, they do have a higher cost of entry than most and take a significant time commitment to consume. If making Xenoblade 4 make sense requires players to spend $240 and 5-600 hours buying and playing through 1-3, Torna, and FR, that's a problem. To that end, as expansive and convoluted as the overarching story may get, I don't think we have to worry about the individual games becoming too hard to get into as a result of that, which is good.

Well, after shy of 130 hours, think I'm ready to put the game down for good. Did all Ascension Hero Quests (minus Masha and Ino, which I may still do), got all the alt costumes from the Challenges, beat all the super hard UM, including the Lv. 120 one. I think I found every location, minus the Ardun Ranch or whatever in Mu, which I'm not I care to do (I had NO idea you could get to Melia's bedroom behind the throne, just found it by looking around). Melia's battle theme is also way better than Nia's. There may have been a handful of normal quests left that I'll just let be.

Started FR, got an hour in (when Glimmer runs away). Sure will be an interesting story, I'm sure. Also, man, wish this AG point system was in the base game, seems like a good way to incentivize exploration and collection. Not that I need any extra push, but it's a cool idea. I'll miss Noah and Mio and the gang, but it was a damn good game.

Pororin posted...

Always thought xenoblade doing fine with its standalone game. It's kinda sad to see they wanted to become more like kingdom hearts where everything is connected bs pororin. Xc3 worlds just a mishmash of xc2 and 1 for good measure.

As adjl said, even from X2, it's almost impossible to tell there's any relation at all, until the very end. Which makes sense, as they are two different worlds, with none the wiser that such a case ever exist except for Klaus. In X3, the Easter Eggs of how the worlds are connected are abundant, but still easy to miss (as I said in my case), with the connections again only becoming apparent and meaningful in the end. Ends up becoming a really good story between all 3 games that bridges them, that allows each to be different and experiment with different worlds and battle systems (Foresight in X1, Blades/Drivers in X2, etc.). The real question is, where to go from here?

X4 could be about the worlds of Bionis and Alrest (and Aionios?) remerging into a New Earth or whatnot, and the strife that brings. There would be a 3rd parallel world based on the story thus far, so it's hard to imagine what else it could be about, unless they go in a completely different story arc direction (which may be the case, and could expand upon the Xenoblade X world). I'd love to see more story that connects these worlds, but understand it could be inauthentic at this point.

5 years passed from X2's release and that of X3. So, may be a bit before we hear of any future Xenoblade plans.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Melia's battle theme is also way better than Nia's.

100%. The Bionis Shoulder battle theme was already top tier, and Brilliant Wings just elevates it even further. I appreciate that turning Drifting Soul into a battle theme and having it work well is an accomplishment, but Melia's is one of the best tracks in a game already stuffed to overflowing with amazing tracks.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Started FR, got an hour in (when Glimmer runs away). Sure will be an interesting story, I'm sure. Also, man, wish this AG point system was in the base game, seems like a good way to incentivize exploration and collection. Not that I need any extra push, but it's a cool idea. I'll miss Noah and Mio and the gang, but it was a damn good game.

Yeah, the point system is pretty awesome. As you say, I don't need much of a push to explore, and it does end up dragging a bit toward the end when you've got almost everything and are being kept from fully developing your characters because you missed the one little alcove where level 3 Cantankerous Jimmy was hiding and have to go hunt for that, but being directly rewarded for exploration with character growth is a great mechanic.

Are you full of beans yet?

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

As adjl said, even from X2, it's almost impossible to tell there's any relation at all, until the very end.

Even better than that, up until 2 actually released, Takahashi explicitly denied that there was any connection between the games. Then Birth of a Universe came along and blew everyone's minds.

Funny thought that they never really explain in the game, unless I missed it: how Agnians and Kevesians are completely unaware of the concept of procreation, families, etc.

I think this is explained as them not having time for anything else but war, but that's nonsense. Finding time to have sex is easy, after all. What's more, it's more that everyone outside of the Lost Numbers seems basically asexual, with absolutely no acknowledgement of romantic feelings, sex drive, or a notion beyond male and female, but WHY male and female.

If I had to guess, there must be programming in the Flame Clock Iris that subdues these natural desires. Can't fight an endless war for the "Now" if you get romantic and emotional attachments, after all. And since the City folk are free of this, their natural inclinations are allowed to prosper fully, which explains how N and M are able to fall in love and reproduce, and how Noah and Mio are able to develop feelings for each other by the end as well. Would also explain why the mere concept of spouses and whatnot is foreign to them.

The bath scene at the very beginning of the game establishes that in a very impressively subtle way: Everyone's just wandering around naked, with no segregation and nobody thinking twice about it. They don't reproduce sexually, so they have no need for romantic or sexual desires. Gotta love telling people they're about to get fanservice and dumping some worldbuilding on them instead.

This gets turned on its head shortly after they all awaken as Ouroboros, when you see Noah, Lanz, and Taion suddenly being embarrassed by the idea of changing their clothes in front of the girls. Given Takahashi's affinity for Judeochristian imagery, this is almost certainly meant to be a reference to the Garden of Eden and the fruit of knowledge: Before eating the fruit/robot egg, they had no comprehension of what it meant to be naked or ashamed of it. After eating the fruit/robot egg, they're less comfortable with the idea. The girls don't mind, but they were also generally more comfortable with the broader social situation, so it makes sense that they'd be less sensitive to that extra unease.

It shows up in other places as well. There's a sidequest in Colony Gamma (iirc) where one of the Agnians is obsessed with the idea of researching Lanz. At one point, he asks Lanz to strip down, and Lanz starts motioning to do so before Mio and Sena (I don't think Eunie weighs in) stop him, and Lanz asks "why? What's the big deal?" and the others are confused as to why they felt so strongly about stopping him but didn't have an explanation. Notably, the researcher doesn't seem to think twice about it even though he's free of the clock at that point, so I'm not sure if it's a matter of the flame clock suppressing their horny or if horny is a power reserved for Ouroboros.

There are some rather disturbing implications in there if you consider that Consuls - who are mostly fully-formed adults with normal adult desires - have essentially cultivated armies of teenagers that have no qualms about getting naked around them, but the game never actually goes there.

adjl posted...

The bath scene at the very beginning of the game establishes that in a very impressively subtle way: Everyone's just wandering around naked, with no segregation and nobody thinking twice about it. They don't reproduce sexually, so they have no need for romantic or sexual desires. Gotta love telling people they're about to get fanservice and dumping some worldbuilding on them instead.

Yep. At the time, I chalked that scene up to them just being warriors, and a communal, co-ed bath after life or death combat not being that odd. But it does creep into the game eventually that they really lack even concept of sexuality. To the point of wondering if they ever even questions why they look biologically different from each other, which is why I assumed it was some sort of suppression thing. And yeah, the Isurd quest for the hot springs really highlights how differently they see it all now.

I forgot about Kite's immediate crush on Juniper, so I guess it is a Flame Clock thing and not just Ouroboros. That, or Welsh cat-enbies have Ouroboros-grade horny powers, but it's probably the Flame Clock.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

And yeah, the Isurd quest for the hot springs really highlights how differently they see it all now.

Yep, that's another example (though Taion's reluctance in particular was less a matter of embarrassment and more a matter of his phobia of water).