Current Events > Kamala's campaign DIDN'T EVEN COLLECT DATA on Gaza as an issue

(+) Yeah! (+)

bIuerain posted...

I have no power to stop genocide or save Gaza.

The United States Federal Government, though? The most powerful people on the planet at the time? They easily could have, and everyday consciously chose not to, for over sixty years

ftfy, since you seems to have some degree of recency bias

Red_XIV posted...

You did everything in your power to guarantee the genocide.

I had no say in the matter. I voted for Kamala if that makes you feel any better, but the genocide was bipartisan.

DrizztLink posted...

ftfy, since you seems to have some degree of recency bias

This. I grow tired of the notion that Biden/Harris are uniquely evil on I/P.

bIuerain posted...

At no point in over a year did either of them make any attempt to pressure Israel into ceasing its mass murder of civilians.

Yes, in fact, they did. Quit lying.

bIuerain posted...

I had no say in the matter. I voted for Kamala if that makes you feel any better, but the genocide was bipartisan.

Given your dishonesty, I don't believe you.

bIuerain posted...

She can say whatever she wants, she was in the white house. She was currently vice-president when she said that. She and Biden could have taken any other action than what they did, but chose not to. At no point in over a year did either of them make any attempt to pressure Israel into ceasing its mass murder of civilians.

Intresting.

So how about lie #2.

You claimed "a lot of people insist that Kamala Harris ran a perfect campaign."
Please point out these people.

Red_XIV posted...

Yes, in fact, they did. Quit lying.

Given your dishonesty, I don't believe you.

That's your problem. I told no lies here. If you want to get upset with me for posting a couple of facts, it's on you.

bIuerain posted...

That's your problem. I told no lies here. If you want to get upset with me for posting a couple of facts, it's on you.

You said Kamala wants genocide when she said she did not and that many people on this board said she ran a perfect campagin.

I count that as two lies.
Can you refute them?

Look, we know Democrats are dumbasses.

HOWEVER, we as voters need to be able to reward them when they're going in the right direction. If they go in the wrong direction, we should aim to shift things back instead of self-sabotage. It's that simple.

There were times where they were shifting towards the right direction, but were hurt instead. Many people saying Harris should be tougher on Israel when she did. We can't disingenuously move goalposts, because then we get into a situation where Harris is labeled as both a Hamas sympathizer and genocider for two different groups and people believe the propaganda.

Too liberal, but also not liberal enough. I think it's up to voters to constructively reward and harm politicians' behavior. The Uncommitted movement was a great first start at this, but something went off the rails over time, filled with too many bad-faith actors.

bIuerain posted...

Brother, a lot of people insist that Kamala Harris ran a perfect campaign.

Could have easily been avoided if she didn't support genocide.

She didnt. Biden did, thats indisputable, but there isnt a clear sign Harris intended to continue that. The problem is she went pretty damn silent on doing anything about it, and in general, really lost that initial energy as the campaign went on.

asdf8562 posted...

Like who? I asked who here is claiming Democrats have nothing to learn?

asdf8562 posted...

Like who? I asked who here is claiming Democrats have nothing to learn?

Well, for starters:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-adviser-vp-ran-flawless-campaign-gop-campaign/story?id=116498997

Sheila Nix, Vice President Kamala Harris chief of staff, said Thursday evening that Harris ran a pretty flawless campaign during a summit of campaign managers, reporters and Harvard University staff.

Broadly speaking the Democratic party insists they made no mistakes.

bIuerain posted...

That's your problem. I told no lies here. If you want to get upset with me for posting a couple of facts, it's on you.

You've told many lies in this topic.

Trumble posted...

She didnt. Biden did, thats indisputable, but there isnt a clear sign Harris intended to continue that. The problem is she went pretty damn silent on doing anything about it, and in general, really lost that initial energy as the campaign went on.

My guess is that the Harris campaign got the crap scared out of it by their first set of internal polls, and retreated to the "safe" (but also losing) strategy of relying on stale D campaign consultants and their equally dated advice, along with the usual command and control from the D donor class.

They were likely doomed no matter what, but turning over the campaign strategy to some feisty 20 and 30 somethings that have no delusions about Republicans not being shitty would have been a marked improvement.

The thing that the elecorate needs to learn is the time to protest vote is not the general election. Make a stink during primaries and try to get better candidates to win the primaries but whoever wins the primary needs to be backed.

We can't win the general elections without unity. We can argue all day about the failures of democrats but doing so doesn't accomplish anything when people ignore primaries and sit out of the general

bIuerain posted...

Well, for starters:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-adviser-vp-ran-flawless-campaign-gop-campaign/story?id=116498997

Sheila Nix, Vice President Kamala Harris chief of staff, said Thursday evening that Harris ran a pretty flawless campaign during a summit of campaign managers, reporters and Harvard University staff.

Broadly speaking the Democratic party insists they made no mistakes.

That's completely non-responsive to a question of "who here" has claimed her campaign was flawless.

Of course the professional losers are going to claim their campaign was perfect. That proved nothing.

How do we fight back against the same thing both sides propaganda?
The differences couldn't be more stark, but I saw it everywhere.

From the left's perspective, as long as they're capitalist and have billionaire donors, they're the same. Even though when you look into it more deeply, there is a vast difference in allocation of grassroots funding and number of donors.

Red_XIV posted...

You've told many lies in this topic.

Yes, but they've ignored every time that the nonstop bullshit has been pointed out, so it basically never happened.

You can see for yourself how good they are at ignoring history when it's inconvenient.

Tmaster148 posted...

The thing that the elecorate needs to learn is the time to protest vote is not the general election. Make a stink during primaries and try to get better candidates to win the primaries but whoever wins the primary needs to be backed.

We can't win the general elections without unity. We can argue all day about the failures of democrats but doing so doesn't accomplish anything when people ignore primaries and sit out of the general

It's not the electorate that needs to learn that lesson -- it's the activists. By and large, the electorate doesn't give a shit about politics, and wakes up for a few days every 4 years to vote based on their feels (especially the morons in the middle that often decide elections).

E.g., I'll take the champions of Gaza seriously if I start seeing them work to oppose AIPAC influence in political off season.

If it was flawless...how do you explain losing to Trump? Anyone this delusional should never be trusted again.

Necronmon posted...

If it was flawless...how do you explain losing to Trump? Anyone this delusional should never be trusted again.

By the numbers, the Harris campaign did well. The lurch to the right in the swing states where Harris campaigned was far less than the nationwide lurch to the right.

Even so, people like this Nix person need to learn to read the fucking room and not come off as a fucking idiot.

So what is everyone's plan here to improve/change the voters?

El_Dustino posted...

So what is everyone's plan here to improve/change the voters?

Blame everyone and guilt trip them until they comply. It has worked wonderfully.

But honestly speaking, I would start to conceding some ground for the moderates and achieve some amount of populism. The massive losses in swing states has shown how much power the moderates has.

El_Dustino posted...

So what is everyone's plan here to improve/change the voters?

What are the non voters and 3rd party voters plans to change the threat of MAGA?

It's not just on everyone else to coddle non voters, 3rd party voters and Trump voters as if they aren't responsible for their own actions.

asdf8562 posted...

What are the non voters and 3rd party voters plans to change the threat of MAGA?

Blame Democrats some more?

Humble_Novice posted...

Blame Democrats some more?

You might want to wait abit to replay to your alt

Wow, maybe they are alts, that was literally less than 30 seconds.

asdf8562 posted...

What are the non voters and 3rd party voters plans to change the threat of MAGA?

It's not just on everyone else to coddle non voters, 3rd party voters and Trump voters as if they aren't responsible for their own actions.

Anyways so I ask again, what's your plan to fix the voters and not coddle them?

El_Dustino posted...

So what is everyone's plan here to improve/change the voters?

I'll just wait until Trump destroys the country.

El_Dustino posted...

Anyways so I ask again, what's your plan to fix the voters and not coddle them?

What are the non voters and 3rd party voters plans to change the threat of MAGA?

It's not just on everyone else to coddle non voters, 3rd party voters and Trump voters as if they aren't responsible for their own actions.

So what are we going to do to help them become better voters?

I keep hearing "but the voters" anytime someone thinks the Dems should do better but what should we do about them then? What is the actual plan outside of feeling smug and superior? They aren't going to suddenly change one day on their own.

El_Dustino posted...

So what are we going to do to help them become better voters?

I keep hearing "but the voters" anytime someone thinks the Dems should do better but what should we do about them then? What is the actual plan outside of feeling smug and superior? They aren't going to suddenly change one day on their own.

In my opinion, both MAGA supporters and protest voters need to feel the sting of their voting choices HARD. They need to learn what it means to be remorseful.

El_Dustino posted...

So what are we going to do to help them become better voters?

I keep hearing "but the voters" anytime someone thinks the Dems should do better but what should we do about them then? What is the actual plan outside of feeling smug and superior? They aren't going to suddenly change one day on their own.

Actually read through the topic. It's been said over and over both Dems and voters are accountable for their own actions.

There is no what "we" should do if the voters dont have any interest to want help. Voters are just as much accountable in their choices as Dem politicians are accountable for their campaigns to win elections.

Your question seeks to continuously dodge voters are 100% accountable for their choice to harm themselves. Your question seeks to continuously dodge: What are the non voters and 3rd party voters plans to stop the threat of MAGA? Regardless if the Dem candidate isn't their ideal candidate.

Because their plan of not voting and going 3rd party, along with its defenders, has only hurt themselves.

El_Dustino posted...

So what are we going to do to help them become better voters?

I keep hearing "but the voters" anytime someone thinks the Dems should do better but what should we do about them then? What is the actual plan outside of feeling smug and superior? They aren't going to suddenly change one day on their own.

Id be happy to help them understand it they were ever willing to have a conversation instead of spamming HERES HOW GENOCIDE JOE AND KILLER KAMALA ARE STILL THE ONES TO BLAME FOR REPUBLICANS COMMITTING GENOCIDE

frankly we cant care about them more than they care about themselves. But they got the attention they wanted so we can call them out on how their actions (supporting trump) contradict their words (opposing genocide)

asdf8562 posted...

Actually read through the topic. It's been said over and over both Dems and voters are accountable for their own actions.

There is no what "we" should do if the voters dont have any interest to want help. Voters are just as much accountable in their choices as Dem politicians are accountable for their campaigns to win elections.

Your question seeks to continuously dodge voters are 100% accountable for their choice to harm themselves. Your question seeks to continuously dodge: What are the non voters and 3rd party voters plans to stop the threat of MAGA? Regardless if the Dem candidate isn't their ideal candidate.

Because their plan of not voting and going 3rd party, along with its defenders, has only hurt themselves.

Oh I've seen some people say that, just not the usual suspects who rush to defend the dems, but it's a long topic maybe I missed it.

Voters are accountable for their actions, but of course the third party or non voters don't have a plan to improve, they don't know they've made a mistake, and they probably won't learn on their own. So if we're waiting for them to suddenly get their shit together on their own we're going to be waiting until we're all sent to death camps or die in climate collapse.

It's already been said in this topic, or maybe it was a different topic, but it seems like people here have no other plan outside of being smug at leftists or protest voters or whoever else. I've seen plenty of people already claim that since they voted for Kamala they have no more responsibility and are just going to sit back while the world burns. Feels very unproductive.

Urging our dem reps who are in power to do better is actionable, primarying do nothing dems is actionable, hoping that dumb voters suddenly have a change of heart by doing nothing doesn't seem actionable IMO, which is my issue with this constant circular argument. The voters are 100% accountable for the mistake they made, but as someone already said in earlier in this topic, berating them for how stupid they are is a dead end.

El_Dustino posted...

The voters are 100% accountable for the mistake they made, but as someone already said in earlier in this topic, berating them for how stupid they are is a dead end.

Coddling them over and over has proven not to work either. Hence why the question works both ways.

Sitting here telling them it's never their fault, or it's on the politicians for not earning your vote, or embracing purist, or enabling their behavior does not fix the problem either.

Yet that has been the heavy push in this topic with a question that ignores the massive pink elephant in the room.

These people are not interested in learning how and why they shot themselves in the foot. So the question asking how to win the over doesn't exist in a vacuum that says its only on the politicians to fix. Those non voters and 3rd party voters defenders also have to want to learn.

You speak of smugness, and yet the non voters and 3rd party voters are all about smugness. Facts and reality be damned, these people will happily shoot themselves in the foot and face just to falsely feel morally superior, or deep in misinformation, etc.

Don't get me started on accelerationist and so called revolutionaries who intentionally want to see everything burn. This group loves to stow chaos as well

Honestly, its pretty clear Democrat politicians dont want to do better, and Democrat voters are fine with this. The best hope for anything resembling a positive outcome at this point, is probably letting the US burn and hoping something better replaces it.

Honestly, its pretty clear Democrat politicians dont want to do better, and Democrat voters are fine with this. The best hope for anything resembling a positive outcome at this point, is probably letting the US burn and hoping something better replaces it.

Some of us don't want to see the only option being trapped in hell...double so since the only outcome is democracy being destroyed across a world that descends into total fascism or just total destruction of the world.

El_Dustino posted...

So what are we going to do to help them become better voters?

Most on this board don't even consider that an option. Which is a big part of the problem

Toonstrack posted...

Most on this board don't even consider that an option. Which is a big part of the problem

Is it actually an option? They already think their voting choices are perfect, and value their self-perception of "purity" over anything in reality. How can such crazies be swayed?

Red_XIV posted...

Is it actually an option? They already think their voting choices are perfect, and value their self-perception of "purity" over anything in reality. How can such crazies be swayed?

It doesn't help that they have echo chambers that help convince them that they are absolutely in the right, making them little different from MAGA.

Red_XIV posted...

Is it actually an option?

Trump lost in 2020 so yes it's an option

You just can't coast off of being not trump. The dems haven't offered a candidate that truly legitimately excites its base in over a decade with Obama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr7IR96nri8

Toonstrack posted...

Trump lost in 2020 so yes it's an option

You just can't coast off of being not trump. The dems haven't offered a candidate that truly legitimately excites its base in over a decade with Obama.

It is an enormous fucking problem that Trump didn't get less than 5% of the popular vote.

EPR-radar posted...

It is an enormous fucking problem that Trump didn't get less than 5% of the popular vote.

Sure, but we knew that that wasn't the case. we've known that wasn't the case for a decade now. Its too late for bewilderment, trump established himself as a formidable opponent a long time ago. Biden barely beat him . You see that happen, you dont go "hmmm I dont think we have to change our approach one bit".

Toonstrack posted...

Biden barely beat him .

Biden beat him quite decisively. 2020 was not close.

Red_XIV posted...

Biden beat him quite decisively. 2020 was not close.

In the popular vote, sure. But not in the electoral college.

Flipping GA, AZ, WI to Trump would take a swing of a little more than 40K votes, then the election would have gone to the House (where Trump would have won).

It's always a fucking nailbiter in the electoral college.

EPR-radar posted...

In the popular vote, sure. But not in the electoral college.

Flipping GA, AZ, WI to Trump would take a swing of a little more than 40K votes, then the election would have gone to the House (where Trump would have won).

It's always a fucking nailbiter in the electoral college.

I wonder if land will be less loyal when they lose their hospitals and disability checks.

El_Dustino posted...

So what is everyone's plan here to improve/change the voters?

Step 1: Find a new place to live, since I have to be out of my current place by the end of the month, and there's little I can do if I don't have a home.

Step 2: Get my life under control such that I can start writing consistently again.

Step 3: Start writing again, with a big focus on politics in my stories.

Step 4: Figure out how to get my stories to reach a large audience.

It's not a great plan, as especially that 4th step is a big doozy, but it's the best I have right now.

Red_XIV posted...

Biden beat him quite decisively. 2020 was not close.

It was close enough where had Trump not shot himself in the foot so brazenly with the covid handling he had a chance to actually win a second term then.

Trump won purely off the electoral college the first time around, that was possible again. Only now did he win the popular vote

havean776 posted...

she's a genocide supporter

It would've been pretty easy for her to change that, why didn't she?

EPR-radar posted...

It is an enormous fucking problem that Trump didn't get less than 5% of the popular vote.

Yes. It is.

It's also an enormous fucking problem that the Democrats didn't get enough of the vote to beat him.

Now I'll give you that neither of these problems is outright easy to fix, but realistically, which one is likely the easier of the two?

Chicken posted...

It would've been pretty easy for her to change that, why didn't she?

She did. She supported a two state system. You just fell for Republican propaganda or your willing spreading it.

Your choice.