Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 454: King Nothing

(+) Yeah! (+)

ehh, i don't think it was out of malice, it's the kind of poll that's easy to misrepresent because it really is at the very end where they're like "okay so support is up to 37%" at which point it's like wait, you just tried to spin this whole thing as a positive but that's all you got?

the tone and approach is absolutely acting like it's liked a lot more than it really is, i've objection to the fact that they simply listed the favorable result at 37% but didn't want to say the unfavorable result. generally i find that poll's summary of results to be a little too biased in trying to make it sound good so i don't fault you for falling for that.

red_sox_777 posted...

If people making 50k or less per year are against it, then it should be removed. Of course richer people are going to be willing to pay more money to get a less congested experience but poorer people can't afford that.

took me a while to re-find where i read that, NY Post article that took the data from the Sienna Poll back in December 2 months ago.

https://archive.is/mdWSf
https://nypost.com/2024/12/10/us-news/most-new-yorkers-loathe-kathy-hochuls-congestion-toll-eye-opening-poll-says/

relevant part:

"The poorest New Yorkers were most likely say they opposed the toll, with 54% of those making under $50,000 against the plan, and 22% the middle or unsure, according to the poll."

and considering the costs are being pushed to us.... yeah, those with the lower income brackets aren't happier with it. everything from 60th street and down will involve the vast majority of working areas and the vast majority of places to go out and have fun. i'm a guy, i can use the train at midnight after drinking. most girls won't. they ain't happy with being made to eat another $2-4 tax.

so the current poll is more favorable compared to the December one but i mean... the results of that one were:

"Its opposed by City voters nearly two-to-one and downstate suburbanites better than two-to-one. There is very little racial or gender divide on congestion pricing, Greenberg continued."

...with a near 2:1 unfavorable result. so it's closer than 2 months ago but still very unpopular.

I mean, Congestion Pricing is really no different than HOV/HOT lanes. Traffic is not going to abate (because we refuse to fully support public transit but that's a separate issue...). If you can do something about it, isn't it worth trying?

No matter how much you make, isn't it worth it to spend a few dollars to save an hour of your time? Obviously it matters more to lower income but getting people off the road will still cut down on commute time. Hell, these people are paying city taxes right? Give a tax rebate for congestion pricing for people making under a certain income threshold. I know, MORE tax rules, but this seems like a problem that has workable workarounds/solutions.

Seanchan posted...

Give a tax rebate for congestion pricing for people making under a certain income threshold

They already disproportionately receive the benefits of lower traffic, so it should generally even out. It's not like an income tax which is fundamentally impossible to balance.

I live in New Jersey, and take the bus into Manhattan all the time, so congestion pricing is more convienent for me. See? I can play the anecdote game too!

Yesmar_ posted...

I live in New Jersey, and take the bus into Manhattan all the time, so congestion pricing is more convienent for me. See? I can play the anecdote game too!

I don't believe this, it sounds like you've been bought and paid for by Big Bus

Side note people are overly afraid of driving in NYC. The boundary areas with highways, bridges, tunnels are kinda wild, but not too different from any major city's boundaries (e.g. Boston is worse). The northern parts of Manhattan and the Bronx were pretty wild from my experience. But south Manhattan and within the boroughs, it's not that bad.

I can even find street parking too sometimes. Sure, often that street parking is illegal because of some crazy rule like it's the 3rd saturday after a full moon, but whatever, I just don't pay the ticket since I don't live there. (Speaking of taxes against poor people... that's one that's ACTUALLY horribly crippling to poor people, but of course no pro-congestion Trumper gives a shit about that)

Even midtown is kinda interesting to drive in. It's pure chaos with no rules and like 2 inches of clearance in all 8 directions around you at all times, but no one ever hits anyone. Everyone is paying attention to everyone else and generally patient (once your brain learns to ignore the honking), you just focus on driving your own car and everything works out. It's so different from the typical suburban driving experience.

There is but one true King, and it is not that orange fool.

Lots of interesting stuff since the last time I looked in here. On RCV, it wont automatically mean that third parties will become viable. It tends to be very hard to set up a political party even if you have a more amenable electoral system. Looking at it the other way, the UK, Canada, India, Nigeria, Malaysia, and others have FPTP for general elections yet still have multi-party systems. It can happen with FPTP, yet by my count since the war there has been exactly one true third party (in other words not independent or a party set up for one candidate) senator and three house members elected, all in New York from New York parties and none since the 1970s. There is something about the US system that discourages it, likely the focus on the Presidential race above all else. Whatever that may be though, RCV is more democratic and gives better candidates a chance to be elected.

On congestion pricing, Thorn is absolutely right with the London comparison. It went from hysteria pre-implementation to near-universal acceptance post-implementation because most people realised it was barely or not affecting them financially and they were not dying from air pollution any more. This will wind up as a very unpopular move from Trump, but also he doesnt care at all.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Totally normal and not at all crazy dictator behavior:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a4108114.jpg

I know this was quoted at the end of the last topic, but it bears repeating and the fake TIME magazine cover really adds something extra.

Freaking Shadow Personas spilling out of the Metaverse

https://x.com/emilykschrader/status/1892478789449331153?t=-HfX1GtPXl0FozZzeKhDDA&s=19

:|

Seanchan posted...

Dems can't do anything.

having lived through all the nonsense minority R put us through, lol

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/19/health/hhs-sex-man-woman-definitions/index.html

Nanis23 posted...

:|

There's a very clear word for it: war

Might not be ATC related but still
https://www.counton2.com/news/national-news/ap-2-people-are-dead-after-a-small-plane-collision-in-arizona-authorities-say/

Also important to always keep in mind as you see project 2025's anti-LGBT tantrums. If they weren't threatened by this growing, unstoppable cultural movement, they wouldn't be spending billions to fight it.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/more-americans-identify-as-lgbtq2s-than-ever-before-poll-finds/

Nanis23 posted...

https://x.com/emilykschrader/status/1892478789449331153?t=-HfX1GtPXl0FozZzeKhDDA&s=19

:|

At this risk of accidentally starting a conversation with you about this, the sign seems to say that those individuals were killed by Israel planes and munitions. (Presumably during the prolonged attacks on Gaza that killed many many more people)

Forceful_Dragon posted...

At this risk of accidentally starting a conversation with you about this, the sign seems to say that those individuals were killed by Israel planes and munitions. (Presumably during the prolonged attacks on Gaza that killed many many more people)

Hamas is still the primary party at fault since they kidnapped them, something theres no possible justification for. Theres plenty to criticize Israel about with how theyve conducted the war, but everything that happened to the prisoners is on Hamas.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...
Hamas is still the primary party at fault since they kidnapped them, something theres no possible justification for. Theres plenty to criticize Israel about with how theyve conducted the war, but everything that happened to the prisoners is on Hamas.

Oh certainly they bear the majority of the responsibility, but if you are trying to rescue or force the release of prisoners then it's possible that indiscriminate bombing was not the way to go.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

At this risk of accidentally starting a conversation with you about this, the sign seems to say that those individuals were killed by Israel planes and munitions. (Presumably during the prolonged attacks on Gaza that killed many many more people)

It's yet to be determined, but it's possible.

This isn't my problem though.

My problem is how they did a full ceremony, with audience, cameras, music and cheering - all for giving out the coffins of a baby, a 4 year old child, a mother and a eldery man.
It's so sick

I didn't post in the politics topic for months because what's the point, but this is a new low.
And I hope that everyone here can see this and understand what the kind of people Israel fight against

Nanis23 posted...

but this is a new low

For who?

Most people in the world would love to have an enemy where this is the worst thing they have done. Gazans certainly would love it. (And Hamas has certainly done much worse than this, considering they didn't even kill these people.)

LordoftheMorons posted...

but everything that happened to the prisoners is on Hamas.

That doesn't follow any accepted war crime guidance. There's a million ways that you can negotiate and extract hostages without killing them, with more ways being unlocked by money and global alliances (and thousands of enemy hostages in your jails), all of which Israel has. Indiscriminate bombing and poorly trained IDF raiders killing dozens of Israeli hostages is absolutely avoidable blood on Israel's hands.

The longer Israel chooses to wage their war, the more hostages Israel will accidentally kill, and everyone seems to be completely fine with that.

It seems that these specific casualties have been a topic of discuss since shortly after the Oct 7 attacks. They were supposedly killed by an Israeli airstrike before the temporary truce in late November 2023. 15 months is an awfully long time to be holding onto bodies before returning them :/

It is worth noting that Hamass actions here have been condemned by the UN. Should be fairly uncontroversial to say this is bad. Also worth noting that they are returning the bodies as part of the ceasefire agreement so I dont really know what they were hoping to achieve with this other than trying to posture to preserve their own power maybe.

Nobody here will disagree that Hamas is a horrible organisation and there is no excuse for what they did. That is not the thing people take issue with.

LightningStrikes posted...

Nobody here will disagree that Hamas is a horrible organisation and there is no excuse for what they did. That is not the thing people take issue with.

If warmonger Israelis wanted global condemnation of Hamas, they would have been satisfied years ago. But what they want is global dehumanization of Palestinians (which is what "understand what kind of people" is code for) and that's a much bigger ask. They are getting close though, with the recent global swings towards ethnonationalism. They severely underestimate how far the pendulum will swing back though.

In fact I would go further than that and say that the pendulum has already swung. After October 7th Israel saw record levels of international support and now its seeing record levels of opposition. There was a study by YouGov showing Democrats more likely to sympathise with Palestinians for the first time ever, and sympathy for Israel has plummeted around the world. That is because of what Israel did in response, something that was incredibly predictable and said by many in here at the time.

Maybe sound is a better analogy, because there's small swings and larger swings all happening on top of each other at the same time, forever

There is still a large contingent of Americans who for religious reasons believe that Israel is incapable of doing anything wrong and would call it anti-Semitic to even imply otherwise.

They apparently didn't read any of the parts in the Bible where God specifically punished the nation of Israel when they were getting up to some shit.

tag

foolm0r0n posted...

If warmonger Israelis wanted global condemnation of Hamas, they would have been satisfied years ago. But what they want is global dehumanization of Palestinians (which is what "understand what kind of people" is code for) and that's a much bigger ask. They are getting close though, with the recent global swings towards ethnonationalism. They severely underestimate how far the pendulum will swing back though.

The very first reply is a person that says Palestinianism is worse than Nazism.

Some may be inclined to handwave away the comment as a random person online, but Israeli officials have repeatedly downplayed Nazis in order to scaremonger again Palestinians.

LotM says everything is Hamas fault, but Israel has/had thousands of Palestinians indefinitely detained without charges. What are those people if not hostages?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

They didn't read any of the Bible

ftfy

Nanis23 posted...

:|

How many dead Palestinians would Israel have to parade around before you'd condemn them for it rather than cheering? Is there any number?

McConnell announced he will not seek reelection.

Good riddance. Yeah, he'll probably be replaced by someone worse but McConnell's influence might over the past few decades makes him one of the people most responsible for the complete collapse of the social fabric in America (and the way things are going internationally - America's standing in the world going from the sole global superpower to how Russia under Putin is treated)

social media addiction and jealousy did that more than any politician sadly.

Thorn posted...

McConnell announced he will not seek reelection.

Good riddance. Yeah, he'll probably be replaced by someone worse but McConnell's influence might over the past few decades makes him one of the people most responsible for the complete collapse of the social fabric in America (and the way things are going internationally - America's standing in the world going from the sole global superpower to how Russia under Putin is treated)

First it was one of the Koch brothers trying to apologize for his role in the cultification of America, now Mitch.

Get fucked.

It feels really bad that McConnell is finally leaving and all the GOP who massively benefited from his decades of machinations are like Yeah and good riddance!

Patel confirmed 51-49 for FBI Director. Collins and Murkowski voted no, otherwise party line.

This might be the most horrific confirmation yet and that's saying something when we already had Hegseth, RFK Jr, and Tulsi confirmed.

oh McConnell couldn't be assed to vote no here, huh?

not that it would have mattered because Vance but still

So glad elected officials are just constantly failing us. RIP America

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

It feels really bad that McConnell is finally leaving and all the GOP who massively benefited from his decades of machinations are like Yeah and good riddance!

On the plus side, McConnell has to really hate this. Hopefully he ends up having an unexpectedly long retirement and has to watch as everything he spent his life working for is destroyed.

Patel is the most dangerous of the 4 horsemen, Hegseth probably 2nd but maybe Gabbard. RFK I think we coulda survived if it was just him, but who tf knows.

If RFK actually affects policy the way he wants and makes it harder to get mental health drugs, I think theres an argument to be made that hes at the top.

Hegseth probably at the bottom. Scumbag rapist/drunk, but I dont think anything he personally supports for defense policy could be much worse than what weve already done/Trump wants.

FFDragon posted...

oh McConnell couldn't be assed to vote no here, huh?

I'm guessing he agreed, so Collins and Murkowski could safely vote no without risking him not getting confirmed.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

If RFK actually affects policy the way he wants and makes it harder to get mental health drugs, I think theres an argument to be made that hes at the top.

Hegseth probably at the bottom. Scumbag rapist/drunk, but I dont think anything he personally supports for defense policy could be much worse than what weve already done/Trump wants.

Patel and Hegseth will do everything Trump says and are in control of people who can just ruin your life immediately. I'd argue they are worse.

I want to say that as soon as we have a public health crisis, they'll sacrifice RFK JR, but... I also thought he'd have to be a recess appointment so who knows at this point. They'll probably just cover up whatever health crisis there is. "There have been no deaths from measles, or salmonella contrary to what the press would have you believe, and so the white house is restricting access from outlets reporting on these false accusations."

May Mitch's face melt completely for good.

I mean, Trump's "plan" for COVID was to try and keep agencies from testing because if there were no tests then the (reported) numbers would go down.

so yeah that seems kinda likely

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-europe-troops-ukraine-peace-deal-2033823

Trump's Fuhrer-tastic Four, ranked from my personal worst to least worst:

1. Kash Patel - Yeah, I really think this might actually be the worst and most dangerous of them all. This is how you go from authoritarian tendencies to full blown fascist dictatorship. Patel seems like a true believer of the MAGA cult to boot. Normally, I think the true believers (i.e
MTG) are much less dangerous than the grifters (someone like Tucker Carlson) because the grifters have no morals and are only out for power, while the true believers actually have some misguided moral compass. But in a position like FBI director, yeah, a true believer who lied so willingly during his confirmation hearing, genuinely thinks Trump should be a king, and has made his intent clear to hunt down Trump's political opponents - it's just a fucking terrifying prospect for our democracy. Or what is left of our democracy right now, anyway.

2. RFK Jr. - What really needs to be said here? A conspiracy-brained anti-vaxxer in charge of HHS is like putting an arsonist as Firefighter captain. What the fuck are we doing here? He could literally be singlehandedly responsible for countless deaths, especially if there's another pandemic.

3. Tulsi Gabbard - Oh hey, here we have the opposite of Patel with Queen Grifter herself. Yeah, this woman is soulless and only out for power. We may already be feeling her effects on the administration, what with Trump absurdly calling Zelensky a dictator. The foreign policy implications here are disturbing and profound.

4. Pete Hegseth - A rapist alcoholic Fox News host is somehow the least offensive of the batch. What a godforsaken batch. I guess I just don't see his appointment as head of the military changing much with what Trump would have already done with the military. He's dangerous to be sure, but more of a classically incompetent type, like all of Dear Leader's 2016 appointees.

Really all four of these are so loathsome, you could make an argument for any of them being the worst. But I can't see myself personally not having RFK Jr. and Kash Patel as the two most dangerous.

It fucking blows my mind that I looked at that list, thought "No way, you can't say Gabbard is better/less dangerous than Kash/RFK", and then thought about it for a sec and realized yes, she literally is, only because her position doesn't really let her directly harm/kill as many people as the other two

And she's still in an incredibly dangerous and harmful position! But Her shit will definitely be more felt abroad and we'll be insulated from it here a bit.

CIA is far more important than FBI and Army, both domestically and internationally. If she is a Putin drone, I don't see how she's not the most dangerous.

There's also no such thing as a true Trump believer. They are all grifting for power. Patel certainly is.

patel has already said he's coming after the media