Current Events > Sleep drugs make your sleep worse

(+) Yeah! (+)

Counter intuitive but they help you fall asleep but the quality of your sleep suffers as a trade off. You need healthy normal sleep.

https://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674(24)01343-6

They rarely work on me either way.

I thought this was well known, huh

Evening_Dragon posted...

I thought this was well known, huh

Well there's probably tons of anecdotal evidence out there but AFAIK this is the first time we studied the actual chemical processes that give this result. Meaning we don't just know that it happens, but also why, exactly.

sleeping pills actually keep me awake and I cant sleep because of how they make my body feel

If I don't take my Trazodone, I'm a zombie.
If I don't take my Prazosin, I have terrible dreams. I'll keep using them because my life is better with them.

dhampire1 posted...

sleeping pills actually keep me awake and I cant sleep because of how they make my body feel

Same, I can't do any othe the antihistamine ones.

Also caffeine causes a similar problem. For restful sleep, it's recommended not to have any caffeine after 5pm

But insomnia is awful with and without medications :(

Not drinking caffeine is a good start - I try to avoid that after like 2:00pm. Anyone that has trouble sleeping should start with that basic advice. If you're drinking coffee at 7:00pm that could be a definite root cause of your problem lol.

I'm experimenting with Doxepin right now (6mg) but I'm not sure if it's any better than using Melatonin or Benadryl.

You should absolutely not use Benadryl as a sleep aid. That's not what it's for.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Also caffeine causes a similar problem. For restful sleep, it's recommended not to have any caffeine after 5pm

This seems like a no brainer but I had to learn this the hard way. I used to drink coffee all day due to work and I would stay up til 2-3 am cuz of it. I've since moved to drinking only tea and stopping before noon. I've been able to sleep much better since.

Tyranthraxus posted...

You should absolutely not use Benadryl as a sleep aid. That's not what it's for.

A drug isn't "for" anything.
It's possible it could have been a sleep aid first, then found to block histamine. That wouldn't mean it's not an antihistamine.

Edit: it can increase your risk for dementia, if taken regularly, so best only for occasional sleeplessness.

I can only do so much of this healthy living stuff. I gave up alcohol some years back, but I very much like smoking weed and drinking energy drinks to counter the depressant effect after 5 and Ambien is a way to make sure I'll be able to get to sleep when I want (I do wonder if I could ease back on the Ambien some nights to improve my ability to get up the next day, but it can be a tough routine to shed). Once I can finally zone out and listen to music, I'm adamant on doing it my way. Also, I do have legitimate sleep issues even without caffeine, especially if I'm worked up about something, and it's been a thing since childhood.

Ultimately, I blame the structure of our society for forcing us all to abide perfectly by a 24-hour allotted schedule. Not everyone is ready to be chipper for the rest of you fucks at 9 a.m.

GeraldDarko posted...

Edit: it can increase your risk for dementia, if taken regularly, so best only for occasional sleeplessness.

Well fuck.. As if it weren't already for the genetic propensity and all the other aforementioned lifestyle choices.

I need trazedone because I have scoliosis, it's doctor prescribed. Sleep is agony! It's a joy.

Tyranthraxus posted...

You should absolutely not use Benadryl as a sleep aid. That's not what it's for.

It is literally repackaged and sold as ZzzQuil - diphenhydramine is used as a sleep aid, not just for allergies

GeraldDarko posted...

A drug isn't "for" anything.
It's possible it could have been a sleep aid first, then found to block histamine. That wouldn't mean it's not an antihistamine.

I mean yes drugs are "for" things. While it's true that some drugs have multiple uses, sometimes discovered accidentally, drugs still all have a purpose and some are not safe when used outside of their intended purpose.

Hydroxy chloroquine, for example, is an anti malarial which is good at killing the blood parasite malaria. It has also shown to be effective in treating arthritis. But one other thing it does is increase the rate of cellular zinc absorption. Zinc inhibits viral replication. So that means it should be effective at treating viruses, right?

Well we all know how that story ends.

Pretty rough story on this. I took 200 mgs of benadryl for 8 years and about a month ago I had to go to the ER after I took extra (another 100mgs.) it was the scariest experience of my life. Tried CBD as a bridge and last night I had the best sleep of my life without anything. I'm convinced a lot of sleep meds are just poison and I'm saying this as a lifelong insomniac

What's worse for you less than optimal sleep or no sleep?

Quezovercoatl posted...

I need trazedone because I have scoliosis, it's doctor prescribed. Sleep is agony! It's a joy.

Interesting. I have scoliosis too, and early onset arthritis and chronic lower back pain because of it. Laying down makes the pain in my lower back on the right flare up and it takes awhile for it to settle down and allow me to get to sleep. Then when I get up in the morning that spot on my back is very stiff and sore and stoved up. I have to use a cane to get out of bed and to get around for the first couple hours in the morning before it eases up enough for me to get around fairly normally.

What are your scoliosis difficulties like? What exactly is trazodone and what does it do for your scoliosis difficulties?

NO2_Fiend posted...

What's worse for you less than optimal sleep or no sleep?

Obviously bad sleep is better than no sleep that's not even a question. Going without sleep causes serious damage to your brain. It's like the most severe thing that can happen outside of physical trauma or oxygen deprivation.

Tell me you don't know how to interpret literature without telling me

diphenhydramine is intended for occasional sleeplessness, but has issues with long-tem use, which is why they tell you to stop use after a couple weeks

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/77dce931.jpg

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Fair point.

I wish it was that easy for me. Theres literally a 100% chance that I wont fall asleep without trazodone and I get garbage sleep when I do use it. We lowered the dose until I cant lower it anymore, but my sleep sucks and I basically wake up tired every day regardless of my sleep/eating/exercising habits. Melatonin doesnt work by itself, either.

I started off taking Risperidoine (sp?) and Hydroxine for sleep

The switch the Risperidoine with Trazodone for sleep

They all worked for a while but after time my body built up an immunity to them. Now it's back to the drawing board.

I've tried Melatonin but 90% of the time that doesn't do jack shit

GS4Life posted...

I started off taking Risperidoine (sp?) and Hydroxine for sleep

The switch the Risperidoine with Trazodone for sleep

They all worked for a while but after time my body built up an immunity to them. Now it's back to the drawing board.

I've tried Melatonin but 90% of the time that doesn't do jack shit

I have to combine my meds with good sleep habits for them to work. They don't necessarily put me to sleep, but they let me sleep.

It does actually help me get to sleep it's just I won't have a full night's sleep anymore

But like other said better than next to nothing

I'm not saying this isn't true or anything like that, but I still do great on ambien and I've taken it for a long time. I'm either lucky or the negatives haven't hit me yet. I'm guessing it's more the latter.

Southernfatman posted...

I'm not saying this isn't true or anything like that, but I still do great on ambien and I've taken it for a long time. I'm either lucky or the negatives haven't hit me yet. I'm guessing it's more the latter.

It's not really something that "hits" you. You just wake up feeling less refreshed than you otherwise would. You wouldn't really notice any significant changes.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's not really something that "hits" you. You just wake up feeling less refreshed than you otherwise would. You wouldn't really notice any significant changes.

Well, unless you're riding the options between "shitty sleep" and "no sleep whatsoever."

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's not really something that "hits" you. You just wake up feeling less refreshed than you otherwise would. You wouldn't really notice any significant changes.

Right. Just saying I still wake up pretty refreshed at least so far.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's not really something that "hits" you. You just wake up feeling less refreshed than you otherwise would. You wouldn't really notice any significant changes.

I just have a terrible habit of getting up only when I absolutely have to (hopefully), and I'm not sure how much of that is the drug and how much of that is will power because my motivation levels can be trash in the morning (often time it's an anxiety thing, and in the morning anxiety makes it a lot easier to go back to sleep funny enough).

Yeah. Years ago when I had sleep problems I would pop some sleep-aids, and like clockwork I would wake up after only 6 hours and feel like shit and couldn't get back to sleep. I stopped taking them.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Well we all know how that story ends.

How does it end

EpicMickeyDrew posted...

How does it end

With people fatally poisoning themselves or dying from COVID.

GeraldDarko posted...

diphenhydramine is intended for occasional sleeplessness, but has issues with long-tem use, which is why they tell you to stop use after a couple weeks

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/77dce931.jpg

doc told me that modern evidence suggests this stuff can literally put holes in your brain and cause dementia if abused for 2-3 decades

GS4Life posted...

I started off taking Risperidoine (sp?) and Hydroxine for sleep

They put you on an antipsychotic for sleep? That's an odd choice.

I didn't even start taking sleeping pills until 2019. Prior to that, it would normally take me from 1 to 3 hours to fall asleep on my own for the majority of my life. I would wake up around 6am to get ready for work, work a full 8 hours, unwind and play games when I was home, go to bed around 10pm, and then not be able to fall asleep until after 1am.

With the prescriptions I'm on now, I normally fall asleep under 30 minutes and sleep throughout the night, only being woken up by my cats sometimes, but usually not long before my alarm goes off.

Ooooooranges posted...

Tell me you don't know how to interpret literature without telling me

This. Im not an MD or anything but just the summary of the linked doc seems to say something very different than what the OP is saying.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Counter intuitive but they help you fall asleep but the quality of your sleep suffers as a trade off. You need healthy normal sleep.

https://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674(24)01343-6

I don't get healthy, normal sleep without drugs.

It varies from person to person. They can still help you sleep, which is the main goal. The quality of sleep going down is unfortunate, but that's largely a secondary issue and it's something that can be worked on gradually.

very anti doctor stance, hmmm

A hit of weed and 15 minutes reading in bed puts me out like I'm one of the dead. Has worked for over 20 years.

whitelytning posted...

This. Im not an MD or anything but just the summary of the linked doc seems to say something very different than what the OP is saying.

It's suggesting one may not go into REM sleep on Ambien. REM sleep is when your brain clears all the neural pathways. It's why I smoked and took edibles, so I could send myself into oblivion every night. It also interferes with REM sleep. I wanted to pass-out and avoid my dreams. The trazodone and Prazosin aid in REM sleep, while reducing my nightmares. Haven't smoked in over a month now.
That said, some sleep is better than no sleep. Listen to your doctors, they understand the cost/benefit better than we do.

What about cbd?