Current Events > Progressives get the Dem civil war they wanted

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tremain07
04/22/25 4:21:11 PM
#1:


James "Play dead" Carville vs David Hogg over him preparing to fund primary challengers to all incumbent democrats who he feels are not fighting hard enough against Republicans and the Trump Administration Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jefferies are pissed off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XTBjK16gyE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwQw676GNo

On one hand. I get it, this infighting could probably help Republicans by stoking the flames inviting grudges among the groups so they hate each other so much that no matter who wins the grudges will be so deep the bases of those people will abstain from voting or spite vote for the Republican opponent, we saw that every single time from Clinton to Biden to Harris spite votes are real, let's not pretend they aren't.

On the other hand, fuck the Democrats, their weakness and their entitled arrogance gave us this hell we're in now and that dates all the way back to Bill Clinton.


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bfslick50
04/22/25 4:25:19 PM
#2:


Primary challenges does not help Republicans and a local candidate youre excited about up ballot helps us in bigger races.

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Enclave
04/22/25 4:26:30 PM
#3:


Primary challenges are a good thing.

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#4
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DrizztLink
04/22/25 4:27:21 PM
#5:


The only people upset about primary challenges are people who think they can't win one.

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CobraGT
04/22/25 4:30:36 PM
#6:


In My Opinion it is between the rich and powerful who want fascism and humanity. Progressives and Establishment Democrats are both on the opposite side of this battle from the overlords.

Try to get it together! The concept is -???- too simple. [Sarcasm] Only complicated stuff can be true. [/S]

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Tmaster148
04/22/25 4:30:42 PM
#7:


Why are we acting like challenging incumbents at the primary is a bad thing? Building support for more progressive policies in the primaries is always good and even if the progressive candidate doesn't win there's still a good chance some of the policies from the primary end up part of the winning candidates policies.

The main thing is that people vote for the winner of the primary regardless, because it's more important to keep republicans out of power.

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Rika_Furude
04/22/25 4:33:14 PM
#8:


fuck democrats for
*checks notes*
primary challenges
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EPR-radar
04/22/25 4:33:20 PM
#9:


Tmaster148 posted...
Why are we acting like challenging incumbents at the primary is a bad thing? Building support for more progressive policies in the primaries is always good and even if the progressive candidate doesn't win there's still a good chance some of the policies from the primary end up part of the winning candidates policies.

The main thing is that people vote for the winner of the primary regardless, because it's more important to keep republicans out of power.
This. Vote blue no matter who is strictly a general election thing. D primary season is the time to get rid of the D incumbents that are being useless.

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Southernfatman
04/22/25 4:34:39 PM
#10:


Getting rid of the dead weight and crappy complicitous cowards in the party is a good thing. We have to have "infighting" because the other option is to keep the Democrats who are out of touch and inept.

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BlackScythe0
04/22/25 4:36:51 PM
#11:


Democrats who fight win.

Democrats who the establishment says "we have to support to get the right wing vote in general elections" fail hard.
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creativerealms
04/22/25 4:39:35 PM
#12:


I have been pushed left. This time last year I thought I was more in line with the establishment than progressives but seeing how cowardly most dems are, not anymore. The establishment is the problem. They are why we have Trump 2.0.

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Accolon
04/22/25 4:39:44 PM
#13:


Establishment Dems: "we need to focus our efforts on fighting Republicans, and not each other!"

Also Establishment Dems: Don't fight Republicans at all.

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creativerealms
04/22/25 4:41:48 PM
#14:


When I heard the name David Hogg I did a double take. I knew he would be important in the future, run for office one day but wasn't expecting him to have a high ranking position in the DNC so quickly. Good for him.

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Voidgolem
04/22/25 4:42:05 PM
#15:


If the establishment Dems won't do what they were elected for, they will be replaced. Seems straightforward enough.

It's weird to portray it as a civil war. Maybe don't roll over for Republicans and you won't get primaried

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ModernPost
04/22/25 4:44:45 PM
#16:


Circumventing primaries is not good. Dems did in this last election out of desperation, but the party has been stagnating for a long time. Primaries are an ostensibly democratic way of combating that.

"Progressives get the Dem civil war they wanted." Good. You should be happy.

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#17
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Gheb
04/22/25 4:46:52 PM
#18:


Primary challenges could cause issues in election years where things are expected to be really tight between the parties.

But given both general mid-term election trends and the fairly disastrous job the Trump admin is doing right now, Dem's should have a pretty strong tailwind going into 2026. This is the ideal scenario for primary challenges. People will already be craving something different and there will be a strong "blue no matter who" sentiment anyway regardless of who wins the primary.

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Umbreon
04/22/25 4:46:55 PM
#19:


Establishment Democrats have shown their belly, make way for people who actually want to DO something about the tyrant in charge.

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EPR-radar
04/22/25 4:47:21 PM
#20:


creativerealms posted...
When I heard the name David Hogg I did a double take. I knew he would be important in the future, run for office one day but wasn't expecting him to have a high ranking position in the DNC so quickly. Good for him.
I don't think David Hogg is going to forget what Republican policies do (in particular, said policies enable mass murder at schools).

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Accolon
04/22/25 6:41:08 PM
#21:


My only problem is the list of "good" democrats that Hogg provided. It included Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries.

Like, I don't even know what democrats he wants to primary.

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BlackScythe0
04/22/25 6:42:01 PM
#22:


Accolon posted...
My only problem is the list of "good" democrats that Hogg provided. It included Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries.

Like, I don't even know what democrats he wants to primary.

Hopefully? Schumer and the ones who helped him.
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Intro2Logic
04/22/25 6:42:52 PM
#23:


James Carville has not done anything of note since the Clinton administration. He's a gumbo zombie who gets trotted out on TV like his opinion still matters.

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#24
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Accolon
04/22/25 6:45:27 PM
#25:


Sure, I get targeting certain Democrats that are especially bad or whatever.

But don't put forward Jeffries as a shining example of what the party needs right now.

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#26
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justaguy3492
04/22/25 7:20:35 PM
#27:


The only argument against Hoggs plan is that the money spent in those primaries could be better used in the general election against the Republicans. But at the same time $20 mil if spread amongst several candidates isn't that much and probably wouldn't be enough to turn the dial in the general. All in all good plan imo pending the candidates they decide to prop up.

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ItsChristian
04/22/25 7:23:17 PM
#28:


bfslick50 posted...
Primary challenges does not help Republicans and a local candidate youre excited about up ballot helps us in bigger races.

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divot1338
04/22/25 7:30:41 PM
#29:


Enclave posted...
Primary challenges are a good thing.
Primary challenges are how we got the Tea Party and Maga.

Frankly Im curious how were going to flip seats.

And two months ago that was all you guys were worried about too.

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Enclave
04/22/25 8:00:14 PM
#30:


divot1338 posted...
Primary challenges are how we got the Tea Party and Maga.

And do you deny their success in pushing not only the party but even the Dems in the direction they wanted? We absolutely need that sort of energy on the left. The old establishment needs to go.

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myusernameislame
04/22/25 8:07:12 PM
#31:


Gee, I wonder who's going to do better in a general election, someone who ends up the candidate by default or someone who worked for it and has proven support.
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divot1338
04/22/25 8:09:17 PM
#32:


Enclave posted...
And do you deny their success in pushing not only the party but even the Dems in the direction they wanted? We absolutely need that sort of energy on the left. The old establishment needs to go.
A purity test will always seem like it works when its conducted in a safe district. Which is exactly where he wants to do this.

We need to stop Republicans.

Spending anything fighting Democrats at this point is fucking insane. Save that for 2028.

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Accolon
04/22/25 8:11:04 PM
#33:


divot1338 posted...
A purity test will always seem like it works when its conducted in a safe district. Which is exactly where he wants to do this.

We need to stop Republicans.

Spending anything fighting Democrats at this point is fucking insane. Save that for 2028.

Except the Democratic establishment has shown they won't fight Republicans. That's what this entire thing is about.

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Solar_Crimson
04/22/25 8:11:56 PM
#34:


Primaries are the best time to challenge the establishment.

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divot1338
04/22/25 8:16:06 PM
#35:


Accolon posted...
Except the Democratic establishment has shown they won't fight Republicans. That's what this entire thing is about
Its an election.

You dont get a choice not to run a candidate.

You do get a choice where to spend your limited dollars.

  1. On Democratic campaigns where you want to beat a Republican
  2. or on Democratic campaigns where you want to beat a Democrat.



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bfslick50
04/22/25 8:16:52 PM
#36:


divot1338 posted...
Primary challenges are how we got the Tea Party and Maga.

Exactly, primary challenges is how they took over the party and raised engagement. Its exactly what progressives need to be doing

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divot1338
04/22/25 8:18:07 PM
#37:


We are so fucking screwed.

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A_Good_Boy
04/22/25 8:18:33 PM
#38:


divot1338 posted...
Its an election.

You dont get a choice not to run a candidate.

You do get a choice where to spend your limited dollars.

1. On Democratic campaigns where you want to beat a Republican
2. or on Democratic campaigns where you want to beat a Democrat.
Is rather spend it on the Democrat that will fight for me rather than the Democrat that will spend all of their time telling me there's nothing to do about Trump and Republicans so they might as well vote how they want them to.

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Accolon
04/22/25 8:19:18 PM
#39:


divot1338 posted...
We are so fucking screwed.

Nah, let's just keep running do-nothing Republican lights until the end of time, that's worked well so far, huh?

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Unknown5uspect
04/22/25 8:25:19 PM
#40:


The only real issue here is the possibility for fucking up where to attack. Like in the off chance the preferred left candidate wins the primary but oops that progressivism turned off the district as a whole and the R shitstain wins.

I'm willing to bet he knows what he's doing though.

justaguy3492 posted...
The only argument against Hoggs plan is that the money spent in those primaries could be better used in the general election against the Republicans. But at the same time $20 mil if spread amongst several candidates isn't that much and probably wouldn't be enough to turn the dial in the general. All in all good plan imo pending the candidates they decide to prop up.
$20 mil across a bunch of House primary candidates should actually be able to stretch pretty far. House races individually don't set off super high spending, typically. Unless you piss off AIPAC and they start dropping millions to shit on you, I guess.

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tremain07
04/22/25 8:27:12 PM
#41:


Oh fuck forgot about AIPAC

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ssjevot
04/22/25 8:28:24 PM
#42:


They need an Obama style candidate who is charismatic and says empty platitudes to get elected and takes popular positions on things they don't actually believe (Obama campaigned one man and one woman marriage back when gay marriage was unpopular then changed after 50% of the electorate supported it during his second campaign) and then once elected enacts policy that achieved actual goals they want (hopefully progressive ones). And I don't even like Obama, I think he was a war criminal (but better than the alternative). Winning elections should be the goal of the Democratic party. That should be their only goal. There is nothing forcing you to implement all the policy you campaign on and no one ever does anyway.

If you aren't playing to win then don't bother running. Republicans will do everything they can to win, and Democrats aren't going to win a morality award for playing nice or being honest.

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EPR-radar
04/22/25 8:29:24 PM
#43:


tremain07 posted...
Oh fuck forgot about AIPAC
Indeed. They are a big problem. In fact, that was one way to see that the "Genocide Joe, Killer Kamala" crowd were clowns -- they never had anything to say about AIPAC, and probably don't even know it exists.

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divot1338
04/22/25 8:31:52 PM
#44:


Unknown5uspect posted...
The only real issue here is the possibility for fucking up where to attack. Like in the off chance the preferred left candidate wins the primary but oops that progressivism turned off the district as a whole and the R shitstain wins.

I'm willing to bet he knows what he's doing though.

$20 mil across a bunch of House primary candidates should actually be able to stretch pretty far. House races individually don't set off super high spending, typically. Unless you piss off AIPAC and they start dropping millions to shit on you, I guess.
Remember that you still have to run the race against the Republican after that.

With either a new candidate without an legislative accomlishment or with a now wounded incumbent.

Except youve probably already pissed away the funding theyre getting from the DNC.

Id support this if he went a step further and just had the people going hard after Republicans who think theyre safe.

Drive up voter turnout and make them campaign where they didnt think they had to.

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tremain07
04/22/25 8:32:05 PM
#45:


ssjevot posted...
And Democrats aren't going to win a morality award for playing nice or being honest.
Thing is, do that and Democrats become Diet Republicans and the electorite isn't gonna want Diet when they have the real thing and this helps the SAME THING BOTH SIDES argument grow even stronger which also helps Republicans, honestly Republicans have spent 30 years plus creating this electorite and Democrats sat on their hands for the whole thing and now it seems borderline impossible to fight it off without pissing someone off in the process and costing themselves votes.

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EPR-radar
04/22/25 8:32:47 PM
#46:


divot1338 posted...
Remember that you still have to run the race against the Republican after that.

With either a new candidate without an legislative accomlishment or with a now wounded incumbent.
If the incumbent is a useless POS that doesn't fight Republicans, this is a good deal.

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A_Good_Boy
04/22/25 8:34:15 PM
#47:


tremain07 posted...
Thing is, do that and Democrats become Diet Republicans and the electorite isn't gonna want Diet when they have the real thing and this helps the SAME THING BOTH SIDES argument grow even stronger which also helps Republicans, honestly Republicans have spent 30 years plus creating this electorite and Democrats sat on their hands for the whole thing and now it seems borderline impossible to fight it off without pissing someone off in the process and costing themselves votes.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. Hogg might as well fight since losing the initiative on this just means establishment Dems will keep clapping as the nation crumbles around them.

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ssjevot
04/22/25 8:35:12 PM
#48:


tremain07 posted...
Thing is, do that and Democrats become Diet Republicans and the electorite isn't gonna want Diet when they have the real thing and this helps the SAME THING BOTH SIDES argument grow even stronger which also helps Republicans, honestly Republicans have spent 30 years plus creating this electorite and Democrats sat on their hands for the whole thing and now it seems borderline impossible to fight it off without pissing someone off in the process and costing themselves votes.

Obama won. How many campaign promises did he keep? Did he actually believe marriage was between one man and one woman and only conveniently change his mind after it was popular to support gay marriage?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0f5ab14e.jpg

Obama is the most popular politician in America right now. That's the way to win. People largely don't vote on policy. They vote in vibes and other emotional factors. So just campaign on popular policy, win, and then implement what you want.

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tremain07
04/22/25 8:35:26 PM
#49:


good point, lose and we're fucked, fight and lose and we're fucked anyway but you got a couple of swings in.

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Enclave
04/22/25 8:38:07 PM
#50:


divot1338 posted...
A purity test will always seem like it works when its conducted in a safe district. Which is exactly where he wants to do this.

We need to stop Republicans.

Spending anything fighting Democrats at this point is fucking insane. Save that for 2028.

Please, you know one thing I've noticed? Liberals talk about purity tests the most yet are the ones who enact them constantly, I mean look at you. Those damn dirty progressives are not PURE enough of Democrats are they? They should never primary our PURE establishment people.

I'm sorry but your style of politics have gotten us into this mess, time to step the fuck aside for people who will actually fight.

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