Current Events > Brock: Ash chose the perfect pokemon for this battle

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ash: *sent out Grovyle and Glailie to fight a Quilava and Charizard*

Me: *face palms* Are you JOKING!?

I've been an apologist for Ash every now and then when he seemed to battle with the POWER of friendship because why not? But Brock, a supposed expert, saying that really pisses me off.

Edit: For clarification to those who don't follow it: Ash sent an ice type and grass type against two fire types. Brock said that his choices were great.

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

saspa posted...

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

That's a you problem. I know all of these Pokemon.

Also, TC is describing something that actually happened in the show.

saspa posted...

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

It's not TC's fault you don't recognize Pokemon from gen 2 and 3 lol. Genwunners are the worst

Type matchups or relative power of Pokemon in the show only seem to matter when the writers say it does.

saspa posted...

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

uh...this was literally in an episode, not an example I made up lol. Glailie is an ice type pokemon and Grovyle is a grass type.

Charizard and Quilava are fire types.

dameon_reaper posted...

uh...this was literally in an episode, not an example I made up lol. Glailie is an ice type pokemon and Grovyle is a grass type.

Charizard and Quilava are fire types.

Thank you for the clarification. I also had no idea.

MC_BatCommander posted...

Type matchups or relative power of Pokemon in the show only seem to matter when the writers say it does.

yeah, I understand that, but it was Brock's response that irked me, not Ash's decision to use them.

I've also been watching the tail end of Advanced battle for the last two days and saw several battles where trainers could have won using type advantage like Skitty with Blizzard against a Flygon and Roselia.

Raycon posted...

Thank you for the clarification. I also had no idea.

I suppose it's fair that not everyone follows pokemon that closely so I could have been specific.

saspa posted...

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

"Ash sent out two pieces of polyester VS two frisky flamethrowers."

https://youtu.be/sojNy_eku8A?si=zwtIxJxZSJe_3YyV

saspa posted...

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

saspa post

That's why Ash is the Pokmon Master! He's playing 4D Chess with type matchups. Obviously Brock recognizes true genius!

Hejiru posted...

https://youtu.be/sojNy_eku8A?si=zwtIxJxZSJe_3YyV

lol I feel like that was a dub error. I reaaaally hate the 4kids dub.

Does anyone know how the newer dub does? I haven't watched anything past 4kids so I don't know, but do they actually try to...not sound stupid or funky? Like the puns or when May is eating a bun and she calls it a cheeseburger?

Ash has the most powerful move in his arsenal: plot

dameon_reaper posted...

lol I feel like that was a dub error. I reaaaally hate the 4kids dub.

Does anyone know how the newer dub does? I haven't watched anything past 4kids so I don't know, but do they actually try to...not sound stupid or funky? Like the puns or when May is eating a bun and she calls it a cheeseburger?

it's generally agreed to be worse than the 4kids dub, especially early on. It got its groove around DP/BW, but then XY they got another music composer (yes they still replace tracks) so even if the voice acting got better the soundtrack fell off a cliff and never recovered

mehmeh1 posted...

it's generally agreed to be worse than the 4kids dub, especially early on. It got its groove around DP/BW, but then XY they got another music composer (yes they still replace tracks) so even if the voice acting got better the soundtrack fell off a cliff and never recovered

I really don't understand why the Pokemon dub just doesn't keep the original music. Almost every other anime dub--many done by studios without anything close to TPC's budget--is able to keep the original soundtrack.

Solar_Crimson posted...

I really don't understand why the Pokemon dub just doesn't keep the original music. Almost every other anime dub--many done by studios without anything close to TPC's budget--is able to keep the original soundtrack.

Eric Stuart said it back in the 4Kids days and i'm pretty sure it's the same for TPCi, it's not a lack of budget, it's the opposite. They do it so that non-english dubs have to pay them royalties for the music

mehmeh1 posted...

Eric Stuart said it back in the 4Kids days and i'm pretty sure it's the same for TPCi, it's not a lack of budget, it's the opposite. They do it so that non-english dubs have to pay them royalties for the music

That's scummy as hell.

Anime rules are different his Bayleaf beat a Houndoom it used it's vine whip as a muzzle so the Houndoom couldn't do flamethrower, fire spin, etc...

HighSeraph posted...

Ash has the most powerful move in his arsenal: plot

This. And Brock understands that well. Ash challenged Brock's gym with Pidgeotto and Pikachu for crying out loud lol.

mehmeh1 posted...

it's generally agreed to be worse than the 4kids dub, especially early on. It got its groove around DP/BW, but then XY they got another music composer (yes they still replace tracks) so even if the voice acting got better the soundtrack fell off a cliff and never recovered

how is it translation-wise? It'll take me a long time to get used to the voices, but I just want to stop hearing the terrible voice acting. It's weird how everyone sounds like they're an archetype or stereotype.

Hell, one of Ash's rivals in this season is the same as King Kai and I can't NOT picture it.

Aztex posted...

Anime rules are different his Bayleaf beat a Houndoom it used it's vine whip as a muzzle so the Houndoom couldn't do flamethrower, fire spin, etc...

that's not my point though. It was the fact that he sent out two pokemon that have disadvantage and Brock made it out to be positive. It wasn't because of any bias towards Ash or his skill but the way he and Max talk, it usually comes with some profound knowledge of the Pokemon world. Yet....

All they gotta do is go for the horn

Didnt he electrocute a ground type once? If so the rules dont apply to Ash.

dameon_reaper posted...

how is it translation-wise? It'll take me a long time to get used to the voices, but I just want to stop hearing the terrible voice acting. It's weird how everyone sounds like they're an archetype or stereotype.

Hell, one of Ash's rivals in this season is the same as King Kai and I can't NOT picture it.

the voice acting in the first season or two of TPCi is downright terrible, like way way below 4kids. They find their groove late into DP at least, and JN and HZ do have some high profile VAs as well for new characters.

Tbf, Ash/Pikachu beat Onix. If a matchup like that could be won by a rookie, I'd try all sorts of type matchups in my career

In Ash's defense. Whenever he chooses something with a clear type advantage it just doesn't work.

Like that time a poliwrath just no sold Pikachu's thunder.

Said Poliwrath then went on to beat Charizard with a flippin Ice Beam.

Brock sees from the third eye

You are not on his level

PowerOats posted...

Tbf, Ash/Pikachu beat Onix. If a matchup like that could be won by a rookie, I'd try all sorts of type matchups in my career

Yeah common sense stopped mattering the moment he beat Onix because lol sprinklers.

Ash's Greninja beat Mega Sceptile, then lost to Mega Charizard.
Type advantage isn't the end-all be-all in the anime.

Phantom_Nook posted...

Ash's Greninja beat Mega Sceptile, then lost to Mega Charizard.
Type advantage isn't the end-all be-all in the anime.

Type advantage means nothing in the anime. If anything it may as well just be backwards because it's a cheap way to add tension to a match.

Remember Ash beat Brock by setting of his sprinkler system... Brock lost because he takes fire safety seriously.

Mistere_Man posted...

Didnt he electrocute a ground type once? If so the rules dont apply to Ash.

@Mistere_Man

Four times.

1. Brock's Onix, after it had been weakened by the Gym's water sprinklers. (So in hindsight, this may have been a recreation of the move Soak.)
2. Blaine's Rhydon, by having Pikachu aim for its horn. (Funnily enough, this did not work later in the show, as Rhydon's Lightning Rod ability drew it in from its intended target, and Rhydon was unharmed.)
3. A Golem during the opening of the first Pokemon movie. (The remake changed it into a Drowzee to fix this error.)
4. Otoshi's Marowak.

Thank you for the clarification.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Blaine's Rhydon, by having Pikachu aim for its horn. (Funnily enough, this did not work later in the show, as Rhydon's Lightning Rod ability drew it in from its intended target, and Rhydon was unharmed.)

It only counts if Pikachu aims for the horn, this was the horn getting in the way.

Without the direct focus and intent to kill, Pikachu cannot overpower a type matchup.

You have to accept that the anime isn't bound by game rules.

I didn't see the episode in question, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt since the show usually *tries* to make sense when it blatantly breaks the game rules to give Ash the advantage. (Like trying to explain that Treeko was weak to Pikachu's electricity because grass resistance only applies when they're grounded)

...but this is the same show with thunder armor so...

Kim_Seong-a posted...

I didn't see the episode in question, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt since the show usually *tries* to make sense when it blatantly breaks the game rules to give Ash the advantage. (Like trying to explain that Treeko was weak to Pikachu's electricity because grass resistance only applies when they're grounded)

...but this is the same show with thunder armor so...

I always thought the whole Thunder Armor thing was a way to show Guts in the anime.

I understand what people are saying about the logic in the anime but they tend to explain rules like from the games such as water being strong against fire.

Brock saying that Ash chose correctly just sounds stupid. This isn't anything to do with the logic behind the actual battles but the 'knowledge'.

It really does seem like that way too much the anime was running on Inverse battle rules. Type advantages just do not work out and type disadvantages seem to work out way too much, and this endured for a significantly long time.

It seems by Gen 7, after the whole Greninja losing to Charizard thing, they cooled down on the nonsensical type matchups, or maybe there just weren't as many memorable moments of that nonsense.

Though in the latest English dubbed Horizons episodes, the Grass type beat a Rock type and the Fire type beat the Grass type. So, they definitely figured it out by this point that not every major battle needs to have disadvantaged type matchups resulting in victory.

Damn, saspa got roasted harder than Quilva and Charizard would roast Ash's mons.

GiftedACIII posted...

Damn, saspa got roasted harder than Quilva and Charizard would roast Ash's mons.

lmao bruh

I ended up with a headache after watching that episode. I was trying to wrap my head around it. I can only handle the simple dialogue and puns before I need migraine medicine.

dameon_reaper posted...

lmao bruh

I ended up with a headache after watching that episode. I was trying to wrap my head around it. I can only handle the simple dialogue and puns before I need migraine medicine.

The worst part honestly is when they have Pokemon that's not obtainable in the actual game, especially when dexit happened. Just going to have Dragonite be a main character during SwSh even though it wasn't even in the game's code at the time.

What battle was this specifically?

I looked into it, you seem to be talking about Shocks and Bonds. The wiki says Max said it, not Brock. It comes off as a dubbing error, but I havent been able to find anything that confirms its dub only.

saspa posted...

You could have at least chosen pokemon people recognized to make your point clearer, who are any of those besides charizard?

Look at this Genwunner who stopped keeping up with the franchise 25 years ago

Prismsblade posted...

What battle was this specifically?

It was Hoenn Pokemon League, a doubles match, Ash's first match. Guy brings out two fire types and Ash brings out an ice and grass type.

Ash had no freaking clue what he was doing. Ever.

Does typing weakness/strength even matters in the anime?

Is type effectiveness even really a thing in the anime?

RndmNmber1 posted...

Does typing weakness/strength even matters in the anime?

Only when the plot decides it does