Current Events > Fantastic Four has an 80 percent drop in week 2 Box Office

(+) Yeah! (+)

K181 posted...

I'll eventually watch F4, but for the life of me I don't get why anyone remotely thought that the Fantastic Four, a quartet always with extremely niche appeal and with the stank of a relatively recent bomb, and a complete unknown in Thunderbolts, (which was decent at best, don't remotely get the praise for it) would ever be juggernauts at the box office regardless of alleged quality.

They're pretty stubborn, there's a few in this thread

__aCEr__ posted...

I think this is just the way most movie releases are going to be as time marches on. Everybody who is super excited about a film will go and see it opening weekend but the overwhelming majority of people are willing to just wait a few months and watch it when it hits a streaming service they are already paying for.

Yeah pretty much for me. If it's a movie I think "should" be seen in a theater due to good visuals/audio or the " theater experience" I'll go early in its release, but for movies like this one I'll wait for streaming.

__aCEr__ posted...

I think this is just the way most movie releases are going to be as time marches on. Everybody who is super excited about a film will go and see it opening weekend but the overwhelming majority of people are willing to just wait a few months and watch it when it hits a streaming service they are already paying for.

I think this is a lot of it. As someone who used to go to the movies all the time, I might go once or twice a year now. When movies hit streaming only a few months later at most, a lot will just wait. Way more convenient and if someone has a big screen TV, there's less reason to see it in a theater.
Oh, and there's no sitting through about 30 minutes of commercials and trailers before the movie starts (and that's after the set start time).

KhlavicLanguage posted...

They're pretty stubborn, there's a few in this thread

Because sometimes MCU throw random shit at all and there's a sudden explosion of popularity.

I don't think they expected the first Avengers movie to be such a success, nor Guadians of the Galaxy. But I do believe GotG to be more of a James Gunn achievement than the group itself.

They keep trying F4 because afaik, the group generally has a lot of power and connections around Marvel universe, so it makes sense to at least make them noticeable so they can have their own relevance in MCU.

012yArthur0 posted...

Because sometimes MCU throw random shit at all and there's a sudden explosion of popularity.

I don't think they expected the first Avengers movie to be such a success, nor Guadians of the Galaxy. But I do believe GotG to be more of a James Gunn achievement than the group itself.

They keep trying F4 because afaik, the group generally has a lot of power and connections around Marvel universe, so it makes sense to at least make them noticeable so they can have their own relevance in MCU.

Yeah, I always thought "FF4 and X-Men will save MCU" as nonsense, this is much lower than I expected. I thought this would clear 600 easy, it'll be a battle for 500 now.

It's kind of weird that marvel kind of did everything right with thunderbolts and ff4 but the stink of eternals/Dr strange 2/Thor 4/ ant Man 3/marvels/ cap4 may have been too much to overcome (and I liked some of those films)

Maybe it's as simple as the market doesn't exist to support Jurassic world, superman and fantastic four

Its fantastic bore, it was always going to be a flop.

Blue_Popo posted...

Yeah, I always thought "FF4 and X-Men will save MCU" as nonsense, this is much lower than I expected. I thought this would clear 600 easy, it'll be a battle for 500 now.

I do believe that X-Men can save it because X-Men was at least a big IP before the movies, instead of F4 that got numerous chances of being a juggernaut and failed at all of them.

But if they take a while to do it people may lose interest too.

It's kind of weird that marvel kind of did everything right with thunderbolts and ff4 but the stink of eternals/Dr strange 2/Thor 4/ ant Man 3/marvels/ cap4 may have been too much to overcome (and I liked some of those films)

I would bet that maybe people aren't that interested in newer stuff in general. Deadpool vs Wolverine was basically a fanservice fiesta done by 2 extremely popular characters and extremely known actors for the role.

Marvel knows this and that is why they brought back RDJ.

Maybe it's as simple as the market doesn't exist to support Jurassic world, superman and fantastic four

When all the movies are interesting I do believe the market will find its way to accommodate all of them. Superman managed to succeed despite WB fumbling, the failre of F4 is on F4 alone.

Maybe they are fated to be B-Listers in the movies industry at best.

Is F4 really a failure yet? Right now it's on track to be similar to Phase 1 films. It's not saving the MCU but it's not a total write-off.

012yArthur0 posted...

I would bet that maybe people aren't that interested in newer stuff in general. Deadpool vs Wolverine was basically a fanservice fiesta done by 2 extremely popular characters and extremely known actors for the role.

Marvel knows this and that is why they brought back RDJ.

That's really a shame. As much as we all clown on nostalgia-bait, it does seem to be what movie audiences are gonna show up for. Sad, but it is what it is.

Marvel movies are very front loaded so higher than normal drop offs are expected. Granted, these are still not great numbers for such a hyped FF4 movie. Even being beaten by Gunns superman.

Ivynn posted...

Is F4 really a failure yet? Right now it's on track to be similar to Phase 1 films. It's not saving the MCU but it's not a total write-off.

It won't be a write off but it will be disappointing. Maybe thunderbolts and f4 can find audiences on streaming and impress there. That's their last bet at this point. They do have the quality to get it done which will help next years slate.

Ivynn posted...

That's really a shame. As much as we all clown on nostalgia-bait, it does seem to be what movie audiences are gonna show up for. Sad, but it is what it is.

The top 3 grossers of MCU since COVID are nostalgia cameo fests in Spidey nwh, Deadpool and wolverine and Dr strange multiverse of madness. I enjoyed all 3 by the way but there were better

012yArthur0 posted...

Because sometimes MCU throw random shit at all and there's a sudden explosion of popularity.

Yeah, that I understand. I don't understand people who clearly overestimate F4's popularity with the general public even after the movie came out, was by all accounts at least decent, and still is putting up underwhelming numbers. All that, and we're still getting people stubbornly telling us that no, you guys don't understand, F4 and X-Men are HUGE bro trust me bro.

It's obviously not a failure on its own by any means, but for years it's been hyped to me by some people as the MCU's "in case of emergency, break glass" sure-fire trump card the way an FF7 Remake was talked about for years regarding Square-Enix. I never really got why they thought that because as someone nerdy who likes the MCU but doesn't read comics (aka the silent majority of the people who go to see these movies) I would describe my hype level for F4 to be pretty mid-tier at best.

From an analytics standpoint I would love to see the birth years of people who thought this movie was gonna be huge. I think they would cluster extremely tightly. They were likely exposed to this IP at a crucial time in their upbringing that left a lasting impression of it being bigger than it is.

Ivynn posted...

That's really a shame. As much as we all clown on nostalgia-bait, it does seem to be what movie audiences are gonna show up for. Sad, but it is what it is.

Marvel and its fanbase overestimated a lot what the "new Marvels" stuff could do after Endgame.

I think the only one who got a big following was Miles Morales. Whatever Marvel likes it or not they need to old guard of popular actors and characters.

Keep in mind that if the demographic survey of Thunderbolts is any indication, most MCU fans are over 25, MCU is already missing the younger demographics and they don't really care about the newer stuff either.

012yArthur0 posted...

Keep in mind that if the demographic survey of Thunderbolts is any indication,

Why would it be? Tbolts didn't exactly light the box office on fire either. F4 will probably end up more profitable than that one

Its at or near 400m 2 weeks in

012yArthur0 posted...

I think the only one who got a big following was Miles Morales

And much of that can be attributed to the Spidey-Verse movies being well-animated and attracting a huge Undertale/Tumblr-esque fandom online from people who often otherwise don't care for Marvel. I would bet an actual live-action MCU Morales film would only perform around what F4 is doing right now.

012yArthur0 posted...

Marvel and its fanbase overestimated a lot what the "new Marvels" stuff could do after Endgame.

I think the only one who got a big following was Miles Morales. Whatever Marvel likes it or not they need to old guard of popular actors and characters.

Keep in mind that if the demographic survey of Thunderbolts is any indication, most MCU fans are over 25, MCU is already missing the younger demographics and they don't really care about the newer stuff either.

Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are the newest characters to hit it big, and both are over a decade old now.

It probably was a mistake to go all in on following the then-comics's push for replacing legacy characters that didn't pan out in the comics and isn't panning out on screen.

Toonstrack posted...

Why would it be?

Because they were the ones who bothered to watch it. Basically the loyal MCU demographic that would go to watch most movies of MCU.

The younger generations would probably only go for bigger events now, and the MCU fans that are around 25-35 are basically main fanbase that goes around watching movies and still under performing.

Ivynn posted...

Miles Morales and Kamala Khan are the newest characters to hit it big, and both are over a decade old now.

I'm kinda skeptical over Kamala considering at how both of her debuts in movies crashed and burned though. She seems to work more on group projects than solo ones.

Miles movies being huge successes is undeniable, however.

It probably was a mistake to go all in on following the then-comics's push for replacing legacy characters that didn't pan out in the comics and isn't panning out on screen.

I remember some people saying that this would happen, and it did happen.

012yArthur0 posted...

Marvel and its fanbase overestimated a lot what the "new Marvels" stuff could do after Endgame.

I think the only one who got a big following was Miles Morales. Whatever Marvel likes it or not they need to old guard of popular actors and characters.

Keep in mind that if the demographic survey of Thunderbolts is any indication, most MCU fans are over 25, MCU is already missing the younger demographics and they don't really care about the newer stuff either.

Good luck with getting the younger demo. What do they go for? Minecraft movie? Kpop demon hunters? Gen z and younger is hard to grab, they'd rather just watch YouTube all day.

Superman also had an older audience

Blue_Popo posted...

Good luck with getting the younger demo. What do they go for? Minecraft movie? Kpop demon hunters? Gen z and younger is hard to grab, they'd rather just watch YouTube all day.

If anyone knows how to get the younger audience, it is Disney. If they can't catch the younger audience with a franchise of caped heroes, then it is skill issue.

But I do say that younger audiences seems to like anime and manga more. Or eastern media in general, Marvel took notice of it as well with Marvel Rivals and the anime Marvel Fighting Game.

012yArthur0 posted...

But I do say that younger audiences seems to like anime and manga more.

anime got way more accessible at the same time that western animation got really uninspired and targeted towards increasingly younger kids

like, why is Avatar TLA practically the only show of its kind? why didn't we get like 10 more of those?

again, look how hard the spidey-verse movies popped off. western animation can compete in the teen/young-adult targeted demographic, they just barely ever try so anime wins by default.

I just wish people would stop saying Fantastic Four always had niche appeal.

The comic was a smash hit that literally saved Marvel and paved the way to all the other well known heroes other than like, Captain America and Namor.

More niche now, sure, but not always.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Its because the average person doesn't know comic history

Fantastic Four used to be one of the biggest names in comics. Almost half of Marvel universe lore was introduced through them. They're not called Marvel's first family for nothing.

People will say FF are lame while in the same breath praising Dr. Doom as one of the best villains. Where do you think he came from?

It sucks how a string of bad movie made people forget this.

I guess it also didn't help that their 90s cartoon was also lame af which given the 90s was a Golden Age for superhero cartoons, was pretty bad. >_>

The big domestic drop isn't even the biggest issue.

The biggest issue is Asia completely dropping the genre (and to a lesser extent, Hollywood in general)

012yArthur0 posted...

If anyone knows how to get the younger audience, it is Disney. If they can't catch the younger audience with a franchise of caped heroes, then it is skill issue.

Young people are still wtahcing these movies

They just aren't watching them in theaters lol.

Young people(as in teen years) only go to theaters for meme movies currently, or for family movies they probably got dragged to. Young people are spending their time scrolling tiktok snd playing video games. They don't have the money, more the attention span to sut in a theaters and haven't since covid hit.

Everything else they stream when it comes out.

Toonstrack posted...

Young people are still wtahcing these movies

They just aren't watching them in theaters lol.

Young people(as in teen years) only go to theaters for meme movies currently, or for family movies they probably got dragged to. Young people are spending their time scrolling tiktok snd playing video games. They don't have the money, more the attention span to sut in a theaters and haven't since covid hit.

Everything else they stream when it comes out.

It didn't stop them to go watch Superman though, or at least more of them watching F4.

Do we have the numbers of D+ viewership?

012yArthur0 posted...

It didn't stop them to go watch Superman though, or at least more of them watching F4.

Do we have the numbers of D+ viewership?

I remember reading a breakdown and Superman's youth statistics percentage wise weren't much different. Just more people like the movie more

You'll never get streaming numbers. Maybe Nielsen for America only but worldwide numbers are available only to the streamer

012yArthur0 posted...

It didn't stop them to go watch Superman though, or at least more of them watching F4.

Do we have the numbers of D+ viewership?

Almost never do we get them but there have been estimations.

For example that little mermaid live action remake? The one that did around 400m?

It got 15m d+ views in the first couple days. Now multiple that number by 10 bucks a ticket and that movie turns a much better result.

Thing is movie theaters are just not the go to passing for kids anymore. Its a shame but its becoming a niche rapidly and its been happening for 5 years. Straming numbers and product cross merch is where it's at now

Toonstrack posted...

Almost never do we get them but there have been estimations.

For example that little mermaid live action remake? The one that did around 400m?

It got 15m d+ views in the first couple days. Now multiple that number by 10 bucks a ticket and that movie turns a much better result.
Thing is movie theaters are just not the go to passing for kids anymore. Its a shame but its becoming a niche rapidly and its been happening for 5 years. Straming numbers and product cross merch is where it's at now

This would imply people would actually be willing to watch the movie at the theater if it wasn't for D+. After all, there are movies that simply sell very well even when technically you could simply wait for streaming. One could simply expect that

D+ only hurt if the audience is aware that the movie is either mid or slop, which is actually something that is hurting Disney brand atm. People decided to skip F4 but not Jurassic and even F1.

012yArthur0 posted...

This would imply people would actually be willing to watch the movie at the theater if it wasn't for D+. After all, there are movies that simply sell very well even when technically you could simply wait for streaming. One could simply expect that

D+ only hurt if the audience is aware that the movie is either mid or slop, which is actually something that is hurting Disney brand atm. People decided to skip F4 but not Jurassic Park and even F1.

F4 will make more than F1 though.

Oh, that is in the US though. International is very different.

Not surprised, the movie was fucking boring and most of the cast was ugly/boring. Galactus was great but he was barely present. Really would rather have all hero movies end already, the magic is clearly gone

xlr_big-coop posted...

Not surprised, the movie was fucking boring and most of the cast was ugly/boring

No body in this movie is ugly lmao

012yArthur0 posted...

But I do say that younger audiences seems to like anime and manga more. Or eastern media in general, Marvel took notice of it as well with Marvel Rivals and the anime Marvel Fighting Game.

I dunno if my post got swallowed or something (could have sworn I posted it hours ago), but I'll say it again because it bears repeating:

Reminder that within a year of its existence, Marvel Rivals was able to get a cool looking Blade that channels Vergil energy, while 6 years after the people at Marvel Studios announced that Mahershala Ali would be Blade, they don't even have an idea on how to make a Dhampir that kills vampires look cool.

dancing_cactuar posted...

I dunno if my post got swallowed or something (could have sworn I posted it hours ago), but I'll say it again because it bears repeating:

Reminder that within a year of its existence, Marvel Rivals was able to get a cool looking Blade that channels Vergil energy, while 6 years after the people at Marvel Studios announced that Mahershala Ali would be Blade, they don't even have an idea on how to make a Dhampir that kills vampires look cool.

Eastern Media is basically trampling everything when it comes to style. The fact that My Hero Academia, a manga being a homage to Super Heroes, basically became much more relevant to teens than the comic book runs of his time in the West, their own home turf, speaks a lot.

012yArthur0 posted...

Eastern Media is basically trampling everything when it comes to style. The fact that My Hero Academia, a manga being a homage to Super Heroes, basically became much more relevant to teens than the comic book runs of his time in the West, their own home turf, speaks a lot.

Manga have been making more money than Western comics for years now, you think Western comics would have learned to adapt.

I guess the Old Guard that avoids change is still in charge or something, a problem a lot of industries have.

Ivynn posted...

Manga have been making more money than Western comics for years now, you think Western comics would have learned to adapt.

I guess the Old Guard that avoids change is still in charge or something, a problem a lot of industries have.

What changes should western comics make?

Zikten posted...

What changes should western comics make?

Stop changing writers so damn much would be a good start. Let one team be able to develop stories with long-term planning and arcs that they can see through. And stop derailing their stories with constant crossover events. That's just one idea.

Zikten posted...

What changes should western comics make?

Let the story fucking end holy shit.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Let the story fucking end holy shit.

But then they couldn't keep you on the fishing line for unreasonable lengths of time!

Ivynn posted...

Stop changing writers so damn much would be a good start. Let one team be able to develop stories with long-term planning and arcs that they can see through. And stop derailing their stories with constant crossover events. That's just one idea.

Kinda funny that the MCU is going to the same problem the comic books had. Throwing a rain of movies that connects to each other and make the fanbase feel forced to watch them all.

When you see the average shonen manga, you can just know where to start. Good fucking luck doing this with a Marvel/DC Comic Book without accepting that you're forsaking absurd amount of content and getting the main content side tracked by some crossover event.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Let the story fucking end holy shit.

Super hero universes don't work that way

Zikten posted...

Super hero universes don't work that way

I know. You asked what they should change.

Ivynn posted...

Stop changing writers so damn much would be a good start. Let one team be able to develop stories with long-term planning and arcs that they can see through.

They changw writers because writers leave or they don't sell.

That is the ONLY reason it happens.

See: ultimate spider man 2024, ending because Hickman is leaving the book.

Meanwhile g willow Wilson started a poison ivy run years ago that was advertised as a mini but it sold so well it's still going and she's still there.

They don't change writers just because.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Let the story fucking end holy shit.

The stories have endings.

It isn't one story. Its many stories.

It ended whenever you the reader stop reading it.

If you're expecting them to just have spider man or batman retire, and then there's just no more batman kr spider man comics; that's never going to happen.

If you read indie comics from the west, those end literally all the time and you are most likely just not reading those ones. The indie side in fact kd virtually no different to the mangaset up. Usually one creative team, a beginning and an ending.

Its many stories! Doesnt work when superhero comics refuse to grow. Writers constantly retcon or overturn previous attempts. Even when something is long established and beloved as positively chanting the status quo, some Manchild who cant get over change will alter it back.

its happened with lots of heroes. Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, Flash, Green Lantern, Scott Free

even new comics thay were hits like Runaways get fucked over. Not even Swamp thing was safe because DC just decided they hate Alan Moore and completely undid one of the best twists in comics history and turned the character into a corrupted monster who needed to die so they could revive Alec Holland.

or Batgirl, where they erased maybe the best disabled rep in comics for no good reason.

LightSnake posted...

or Batgirl, where they erased maybe the best disabled rep in comics for no good reason.

I was thinking of the movie written off for tax purposes, but in the comics she did eventually get to walk again after Joker tried to deal her "her one bad day"...

Charged151 posted...

I was thinking of the movie written off for tax purposes, but in the comics she did eventually get to walk again after Joker tried to deal her "her one bad day"...

The worst part is there as at least two other popular Batgirls since and Barbara had moved on into a great role. But DC editors didnt like it wasnt the way it had been since they were kids and; welll

Post Flashpoint DC was an utter failure mocked and derided even to this day.

LightSnake posted...

Post Flashpoint DC was an utter failure mocked and derided even to this day.

The New 52 had some good moments and stories, but yeah... I can't dispute this as a whole.

LightSnake posted...

The worst part is there as at least two other popular Batgirls since and Barbara had moved on into a great role. But DC editors didnt like it wasnt the way it had been since they were kids and; welll

We need more Cassandra Cain. All I will say.