Current Events > Solksong's "difficulty" stems from complete BS

(+) Yeah! (+)

Most of the boss fights so far are very simplistic and easy. No complicated moves or tough things to dodge.

Then they just keep adding other little enemies to the arena to artificially increase the difficulty of the fights. It's BS imo. And clearing the enemies doesn't actually do anything, because they just call more in.

I like how Ninja Gaiden Black does it

Bosses will either;

Start with enemies present, and a group will reappear every time the Boss health drops to a certain amount (75%, 50%, etc)

or

The Boss manually summons them 1 or 2 at a time, but they are somewhat vulnerable

not to mention the boss can friendly fire.

Its great. NGB is fucking amazing

to be fair most silksong bosses inflict friendly fire, the only actual bullshit case of small enemies is Beastfly Round 2 because they're the "annoying keep away and fire projectiles" type.

once you internalize that most if not all bosses only have like 3 moves that are heavily telegraphed (4 if they have a phase change), the fights get much simpler. There's some standout cases like the chapter 1 boss having no startup tell for the flail spin or some of the act 3 bosses not having many openings because they block, but otherwise it's just...learn the moves.

Voidgolem posted...

to be fair most silksong bosses inflict friendly fire, the only actual bullshit case of small enemies is Beastfly Round 2 because they're the "annoying keep away and fire projectiles" type.

once you internalize that most if not all bosses only have like 3 moves that are heavily telegraphed (4 if they have a phase change), the fights get much simpler. There's some standout cases like the chapter 1 boss having no startup tell for the flail spin or some of the act 3 bosses not having many openings because they block, but otherwise it's just...learn the moves.

Actually there is a tell for the flail spin.

The term "artificial difficulty" has grown to be perhaps the most annoying phrase to me in gaming over the years.

Takuya_Lee posted...

Actually there is a tell for the flail spin.

useful

It's not really been that bad for me. The runback sucks, but the bosses have seem about the same as the first game for me.

The adds for the bosses and some of the gauntlets suck, but you can take them out almost immediately with Silksong.

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

clearing the enemies doesn't actually do anything, because they just call more in.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5843944d.jpg

Does Silksong have a Mantis Lords tier runback?

stakes of marika were such a good idea

They spent 6 years creating a beautiful work of art and you can't spend a few extra hours on the game?

Note: I don't actually like this game. But I'll just not play it instead of complaining about it.

PowerOats posted...

Does Silksong have a Mantis Lords tier runback?

Several that are Worse:

End of Chapter 1
Bilewater As A Whole even if you find the secret bench
Watcher At The Edge (optional, still bad)

though it also has several bosses with *no* runbacks, which make the bad ones stand out more

Dakimakura posted...

But I'll just not play it instead of complaining about it.

i'm not playing it and complaining about it like a boss

PowerOats posted...

Does Silksong have a Mantis Lords tier runback?

Act 1's final boss has one with a bunch of parkour where if you fail you take double damage (without takingthe enemies into account), but it's pretty doable quickly and no-hit once you've gotten the layout down

PiOverlord posted...

The term "artificial difficulty" has grown to be perhaps the most annoying phrase to me in gaming over the years.

This. Im not even sure what true difficulty is as opposed to artificial. All difficulty is artificial

Wait the bosses are spawning smaller enemies to fight alongside them? That is completely unheard of and CHEAP way to add difficulty that a game has never done before.

K-driver posted...

Wait the bosses are spawning smaller enemies to fight alongside them? That is completely unheard of and CHEAP way to add difficulty that a game has never done before.

most bosses don't. But the ones that do are also generally just bad bosses outside of that (the most notable being the Savage Beastfly, despite having exactly 2 attacks that both involve trying to run into you slowly)

BlueBoy675 posted...

This. Im not even sure what true difficulty is as opposed to artificial. All difficulty is artificial

artificial difficulty is basically something heavy handed and slapdash like spamming a bunch of enemies (medusa heads in castlevania?) or cranking up their damage instead of a thoughtful, balanced approach like introducing new enemy types, attack patterns, etc

oh, or shit like instant death pits/spikes

viewmaster_pi posted...

artificial difficulty is basically something heavy handed and slapdash like spamming a bunch of enemies (medusa heads in castlevania?) or cranking up their damage instead of a thoughtful, balanced approach like introducing new enemy types, attack patterns, etc

oh, or shit like instant death pits/spikes

the frustrating thing is that silksong has a LOT of the latter, but many times still adds the former on top of it

This really is the Dark Souls 2 of Hollow Knight

Overturned enemies that ate way too populous and hit way too hard

Actual bosses are way easier

Run backs are annoying as hell

Savage Beastfly is the only add fight that I think is absolute bullshit because the enemies it spawns adds so much RNG to the fight.

mehmeh1 posted...

Act 1's final boss has one with a bunch of parkour where if you fail you take double damage (without takingthe enemies into account), but it's pretty doable quickly and no-hit once you've gotten the layout down

I'm currently at a boss with a way worse runback tbh

Bilewater, Groal the Great

pegusus123456 posted...

Savage Beastfly is the only add fight that I think is absolute bullshit because the enemies it spawns adds so much RNG to the fight.

wait until pt 2

SAlYAN posted...

This really is the Dark Souls 2 of Hollow Knight

Overturned enemies that ate way too populous and hit way too hard

Actual bosses are way easier

Run backs are annoying as hell

Boss difficulty has been just right where it should be imo - and it has one of my favorite bosses between the two games Xogwork Dancers

Normal mobs seem perfectly fine too, at times appreciate their extra health so I can get silk faster before a boss

AnsestralRecall posted...

Boss difficulty has been just right where it should be imo - and it has one of my favorite bosses between the two games Xogwork Dancers

Dancers is an amazing fight, but the runback's really annoying

Voidgolem posted...

Savage Beastfly

This is the one that's pissing me off. I'm annoyed that it's just a very lazy boss design and they just threw in a bunch of little enemies to make it seem tougher (artificial difficulty/complexity)

pegusus123456 posted...

Savage Beastfly

Okay, so since this is the boss that prompted the topic, I guess I'm glad this is the worst it gets

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

Okay, so since this is the boss that prompted the topic, I guess I'm glad this is the worst it gets

they're talking about the second beastfly fight.

Also it's often a good idea to get rid of the small enemies asap even if it's with silk costing skills.

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

Okay, so since this is the boss that prompted the topic, I guess I'm glad this is the worst it gets

...

Dark soul games mostly did away with adds entirely after 2.

Theyre generally BS in any boss fight frankly. Artificially roaring the difficulty unfairly or used in transitions for paddings sake.

The only time they work in my opinion is in combination with the above and said enemies being weak.

Kratos vs Hercules in GoW3 is one such example.

Rai_Jin posted...

they're talking about the second beastfly fight.

I'm not, I haven't gotten that far. The first one was bs enough on its own.

You guys are using "artificial" as a synonym for "I don't like it", or "bad". Artificial difficulty is when a thing is difficult for reasons unrelated to relevant player capacity.

Poor controls, a lack of relevant information, a mandatory section determined by a minigame that is entirely arbitrary from the established skillset used for the rest of the game, that kind of thing. "More bugs" is not artificial.

Evening_Dragon posted...

You guys are using "artificial" as a synonym for "I don't like it", or "bad". Artificial difficulty is when a thing is difficult for reasons unrelated to relevant player capacity.

Poor controls, a lack of relevant information, a mandatory section determined by a minigame that is entirely arbitrary from the established skillset used for the rest of the game, that kind of thing. "More bugs" is not artificial.

You're right that artificial difficulty is a nonsense term the way people use it online. "I died and I didn't like it."

But I'm pretty sure artificial difficulty is when like, the enemies just have more stats. Artificial difficulty would be giving the boss twice as much health and making it do double damage without any other changes. Having the boss summon minions is actually "real" difficulty.

Prismsblade posted...

Dark soul games mostly did away with adds entirely after 2.

Theyre generally BS in any boss fight frankly. Artificially roaring the difficulty unfairly or used in transitions for paddings sake.

TBQH bosses with a lot of adds like Nito were way, WAY better than the way Fromsoft bosses are now. Elden Ring has like 100 unique boss fights and they're all just variants on anime sword guy with 15 hit strings you have to memorize and play Dodge Rolling Simulator with, all fought in a perfectly circular arena with no obstacles or other enemies at all. So many unique bosses and they're all functionally the same.

Solksong

bIuerain posted...

But I'm pretty sure artificial difficulty is when like, the enemies just have more stats. Artificial difficulty would be giving the boss twice as much health and making it do double damage without any other changes. Having the boss summon minions is actually "real" difficulty.

It is not, no. That is basic balancing. Artificial difficulty would be things like having a poor camera system causing the fight to be more difficult or having your victory based on RNG.

I will admit to using the term artificial difficulty but only in reference to the NES era. That was when home console gaming market truly blossomed in North America after the crash but many of the games were designed with an arcade "eat your quarters" mentality to keep you playing but in the case of the NES it was just to lengthen the games so you felt like you were getting value out of them.

Stuff like limited limited lives or continues or where a death just took you right back to the title screen. Stuff like enemies on ledges and they could throw objects at you but you had no way to dispatch them at all and had limited controls. Stuff that happened because of design flaws of the era like respawning enemies on the edge of the screen or people attacking you from off screen.

That was all of the stuff that to me was artificial difficulty that extended the game. I really haven't needed to use the term in modern gaming because controls are so much better and most of this stuff isn't present in today's games.

archizzy posted...

Solksong

Lol, I can't believe I didn't notice(and no one called it out) until now.

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

Lol, I can't believe I didn't notice(and no one called it out) until now.

I figured some people just auto corrected in their head or they noticed it but were too nice to say anything. I partially felt weird calling it out so late but I couldn't resist haha.

PowerOats posted...

Does Silksong have a Mantis Lords tier runback?

That one still pisses me off. Putting the bench right next to the boss, but not letting you access it until after the boss is dead and its completely useless. Baffling design.

Sulksong

bIuerain posted...

But I'm pretty sure artificial difficulty is when like, the enemies just have more stats. Artificial difficulty would be giving the boss twice as much health and making it do double damage without any other changes. Having the boss summon minions is actually "real" difficulty.

Artificial Difficulty is when factors external to the game itself increase the difficulty.

An example of this would be playing punch out NES on a LCD TV.

A lot of people say artificial when they actually mean arbitrary.

Solksong