Lurker > LightningStrikes

I think thats selling Dragon Quest 1 incredibly short. It invented the console RPG, which effectively gives it responsibility for an entire genre. Its fine to say that Dragon Quest 3 was also very influential on the genre but Dragon Quest 1 was foundational. Even the FF1/FF4 comparison doesnt work because Dragon Quest 1 was a much bigger deal than FF1.

Also, this whole topic series has been full of well Mount Rushmore is an American concept! when talking about cereals or pies or whatever but now suddenly its all about Japan to the exclusion of the rest of the world!

Yeah I dont want to tip my hand too much for later but the popularity of FFVII at the time cannot be overstated. If FFVII comes out the exact same and sells say the same amount as VI plus a proportional amount in Europe, it would still be a very respected, very influential game but it wouldnt be Final Fantasy VII. It wouldnt be a lock for the PS1 Mount Rushmore and might not even get on. None of the NES Dragon Quests got close to that level worldwide. And indeed very few games did!

If we factor in sales then it should be noted that Dragon Quest 1 sold 3 million on NES, which is not that far from 3s so its not like a FFVII situation where one game towers over the others. More importantly, Dragon Quest 1 sold MUCH better than 3 in North America at a stonking 1.5 million copies, of which a million were part of a subscription deal with Nintendo Power which is itself pretty notable. Even excluding that though it still outsold 3 in North America roughly five to one. The popularity of 3 was driven purely by Japan, while 1 was more of a global hit.

Also with Star Fox 2 the game was finished and people played through it all at trade shows. It was a final product that ran on an original SNES it just never came out.

I guess I dont mind that. At the end of the day the story of Apollo Justice goes in an optimistic direction though its harder along the way. But I really liked that it was more grounded than previous games, which I also liked about 1-5.

Maybe thats it. I love the first investigation in this case, with how it presents things very differently and ties everything into the central mystery. The actual bulk of the case is okay but its a great setup and introduction to the world of Apollo Justice.

But Dragon Quest 1 IS tremendously important and influential! It effectively began the JRPG genre and popularised RPGs on console. Theres a firm argument that its the most important JRPG ever made. How is 3 so much more important?

7/10.

Never understood the hate for this one!

Yeah its like Dragon Quest III the most influential over Dragon Quest???

Super Mario Bros
Super Mario Bros 3
The Legend of Zelda
Dragon Quest

8.5/10.

Setting up an into case like a finale case was a brilliant move.

MacArrowny posted...

It's kinda funny that Phantasy Star IV is going unchallenged when it's far less relevant to the Genesis than Xenoblade was to the Wii.

I mean lets be completely honest here despite some of the narrative around it at the time the Wii had a much more crowded field. Large parts of the Genesis/Mega Drives library are totally forgotten. I do think Phantasy Star IV is super pivotal to the genre though.

After thinking about it, change Yoshis Island to Star Fox 2. What it does with the open world design combined with the already very advanced graphics is wild on the SNES.

I own a copy of the SNES version I bought in the 2000s lol.

So whats the feeling on Mortal Kombat. Its obviously an incredibly important game and this was the better console version, but is it associated with the Genesis/Mega Drive enough to count?

Actually Star Fox 2 is a good answer as well, that game is bizarrely ahead of its time. I will consider changing to that. So funny they didnt release it for 20 years. Honourable mentions to FFVI and DKC3. And dont forget to bold your votes!

Yoshis Island

Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Phantasy Star IV
Streets of Rage 2

Was not a Mega Drive kid, so my only real passion point is that Sonic 1 should absolutely be here even though 2 is better, that game was an enormous deal and started it all. Would also be cool for Phantasy Star IV to be on due to its importance to the genre.

Theyre probably both getting on there!

Actually DS will be a great one because there are so many fantastic and notable DS games but not that many all-encompassing phenomena.

Nominate DS Games

Also nominate:

Switch Games
Xbox 360 Games
PS3 Games
PS4 Games
Xbox One Games (This will be fun)

To me the most compelling argument is that its probably the most technologically impressive game on the Wii, its wild what they pulled off on that little thing.

However, you definitely do not need to have just Wii Whatever on there, there are plenty of alternatives. Ive argued on Xenoblades side and Id still put my four plus Twilight Princess, Super Mario Galaxy and Wii Fit over it!

I will say also if importance to the systems success is on there you have to have Twilight Princess on there, it was vital in the early days, and at least one of Mario Kart Wii and New Super Mario Bros Wii!

ctesjbuvf posted...

I think the fact that the Wii would've been exactly as successful without Xenoblade is a pretty good way to sum up the case. It didn't make the console liked again among more hardcore gamers, it was merely an exception. To casuals (most Wii owners) the Wii basically never died or at least not for many more years to come.

Well to be fair Xenoblade did come out outside of Japan at the very tail-end of the Wiis lifespan, mere months before the Wii U in North America. The Wii also famously had a massive cliff-edge of popularity so those last two years were kind of nothing. No game was going to bring the Wii back to its heights, as evidenced by how quickly Skyward Sword flamed out only to do better on Switch.

I deleted my Reddit account and felt my mental health improve massively.

I mostly remember very positive feedback to Prime 3 at launch but yeah, it made no splash. It did sell better than Prime 2 but it not really taking off is probably why Metroid was in such a weird spot for a decade. I would absolutely endorse Xenoblade over Prime 3.

The other aspect of it is that Xenoblade launched in the west at a time when interest in the Wii was cratering (and by the US release, had cratered) yet still overperformed in terms of sales. It was basically the highlight of the late Wii era.

YAAAAAAAAAAA

You know, I think that was the first political meme I was ever aware of.

Reddit also has a massive problem with fostering hate, with a lot of subreddits basically just designed to promote bigotry. Not aware of that here!

As far as numbers as an RPG go, it pretty much has to be best in terms of general reception since it has a 92% critic average. On most popular I am less certain but what other notable Wii RPGs were there? It was not a great platform (or honestly, generation) for those.

This whole discussion and topic brings back memories of how furious people were about the Wii and Nintendo daring to make games for people who didnt normally play games. The general attitude towards Nintendo was definitely at an all-time low in the late Wii era. They had had less successful times but that is probably the only time they were ever widely hated beyond typical console war stuff. By contrast with say the Wii U people were just not paying them heed at all.

I mean to be fair it was the game massively beating its sales expectations in Europe that got the game over to America, if it had tanked there it never would have been released regardless of the campaign. Still Operation Rainfall did get a lot of eyes on the game which helped it do well in the first place and they got Pandoras Tower outside of Japan. Plus it was just a big moment in general. And the game is a technical marvel on the Wii, it deserves credit for that.

Its not on my Rushmore but its probably in the 8-10 range. Not that odd a pick!

9.5/10.

Its an amazing payoff to the trilogy, but there is something about it that is lacking in punch relative to 2-4. To be honest I am closer to a 9 than a 10 on this one, but Im being generous because I do need to revisit it. Excellent case either way of course!

3D Mario also did better than Smash on 3DS and Wii U. I think you are right that a lot of these core games did not see amazing attach rates because families and others bought different games for the Wii than the core Nintendo franchises. But I also think Galaxy didnt do as well as other franchise entries in those terms, Twilight Princess did much better for a Zelda game at the time than Galaxy did for a Super Mario game.

Honestly Im tempted to say Donkey Kong Country Returns because what that game did releasing in late 2010 right before Wii software sales collapsed was really impressive.

Speaking of Just Dance since nobody has said it: Red Steel was a Ubisoft game!

Relitigating the Mario Rushmore topic a bit but it is actually a little surprising how Galaxy wasnt THAT big a deal in the grand scope of the Wii. Now obviously its an amazing game that won a load of awards and (along with the DS New Super Mario Bros) undid the huge brand damage that Sunshine did. It really established Super Mario as a top quality series again. However, the sales were not what you would expect for a Super Mario on the Wii. It has I think the lowest attach rate of any first Super Mario game on console with Galaxy 2 having the lowest overall. And its not just numbers either, the mindshare just wasnt quite there. By contrast New Super Mario Bros Wii took over the world when it came out, it was the Wii game of those last few years despite critical reception not being on the same level. It was a much bigger deal.

Of the core three of Brawl, Galaxy, and Twilight Princess, Brawl is definitely the one. The hype was insane, it was Nintendos biggest (non-Pokmon) launch ever for like a decade, and it did sell the most of those three. I would even take Twilight Princess over Galaxy because it was such an important launch game.

Now I would love to say Xenoblade because its fantastic and some of what it was doing technologically was impressive on console and just absurd on the Wii. However this is far too stacked a field for that.

Wii Sports
Mario Kart Wii
New Super Mario Bros Wii
Super Smash Bros Brawl

I guese I got here too late to make a difference but New Super Matio Bros Wii was so important to the console at its peak.

TomNook7 posted...

Holy crap the graphics in SFA are legit impressive for 2002

I mean this in the least furry way possible - but Foxs fur looks

Actually all the colors and textures on everything really pop. The graphics, art direction, music, atmosphere

But the absolute best part is the shop keeper

HoW bOuT wE pLaY a LiTtLe GaMe

YoU PaY tHiS MuCh - 5 scarabs

>3 scarabs

nO thats too LOWW

>4 scarabs

OKAY Ill sELl iT tou YOU

Before getting to this post I was just thinking about how I remember the graphics being kind of incredible.

But I also think the one bit of responsibility your every day Israeli citizen has is to depose this government as soon as possible. That is by far the most effective way for any change to happen (of course the incoming government also needs to want change which may be tough) as so far the Israeli government has made it clear they will keep going no matter what the rest of the world says.

Jakyl25 posted...

Maybe not if they dont intend to leave anyone behind to radicalize

Good news! There will be an increase in terrorism because of this far outside of Gaza, so even if the IDF kill everyone they will still fail to destroy Hamas and related terrorist groups. Yet still they are continuing.

Also some of those quotes, man. How deranged do you have to be to want to nuke a tiny territory right next to you. At that point effectively nuking your own citizens as well. Wild.

Well Nanis theres two aspects to that.

1) I generally believe that the vast majority of people in every country just want to live their lives in peace and dont want to impinge on others. The problem is what the Israeli government is doing, it is not the responsibility of most of the people who live in Israel themselves and I think everybody here recognises that. But that is a two way street and you dont have to (in fact should not) support what the government does either. I have two nationalities and both governments are a load of crooks!

2) Even if we take the best case scenario and assume that the IDFs actions are intended to be entirely defensive (and its not hard to find Israeli politicians who say otherwise), its a terrible strategy. This will absolutely lead to much greater risk of terrorism in Israel and around the world. So the IDFs actions are only making everybody less safe.

Like, I get that its scary, but you dont have to support it just because its your own country.

This is probably a good opportunity to point out that immediately after October 7th, public sympathy for Israel skyrocketed in a huge number of countries to its highest in decades. Since then, it has plummeted to its lowest ever.

I wonder what could have happened to cause that?

Oh and by the way, in an interview this week the former head of MI6 literally said that terrorists around the world are going to be very happy with Israels actions in Gaza (just like they were happy with the invasion of Iraq) because its going to be a massive radicalising event. This supposed mission to destroy terrorism is literally helping terrorism. This response is literally the worst thing Israel could have done for its own safety.

With the greatest of respect I do not think accusing the IDF of war crimes is included in any working definition of antisemitism.

Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon
Hotel Mario
Burn:Cycle
Myst

I would love to see Burn:Cycle on here as a game that was actually well-received.

Voted yes and I like it by mistake, should be no and I like it.

8.5/10

Really great case with one of the most socking endings in the series. The only mark against it is that the mystery itself is a little thin but it does its job as a setup case.

I feel like this could actually lead to serious international repercussions for Israel for the first time. Not sure itll be enough to stop it as its clearly an ideological crusade for the Israeli government. But would be a good step.

On a lighter note, some good news:

https://apnews.com/article/turkey-local-elections-erdogan-popularity-test-8adc4df56cdbce24f78900e1d142ff21

In Turkey the opposition just won a massive victory over Erdogan in local elections, with the secular, social democratic CHP getting their best result in decades, winning places they hadnt for 50 years. Big landslides in Istanbul and Ankara which had been marginal until recently. This is the first set of elections in which Erdogans party havent finished first place since they came to power. Good to see that democracy is still alive in Turkey despite everything thats been done to repress it. Also does kinda confirm the suspicion that the opposition probably would have won last years presidential election if they had picked a candidate that people actually liked!

3-2 is pretty important for a few different reasons:

1) Its re-establishing the present day status quo after 2-4.

2) Obviously it introduces Godot and his grudge against Phoenix.

3) To a lesser extent, the urn sets up some of the last case.

3-3 not as much but it does still have some critical foreshadowing on Godot, wraps up some recurring character arcs and serves as one last hurrah for the trilogy with a final traditional case before getting into the meat of the story with the last two.

7/10. Good but a little long.

The Reanimated

azuarc posted...

I don't know what this is, but some of those names are hilarious.

You should watch the movie, especially if you have no idea about it. Great film.

LtM got warned for posting Godzilla and Kong doing it

Anyway I kinda want to see this film but I havent seen GvK and I havent finished KotM, and I would have to rent or pirate both where I am which I dont feel like doing. Is it worth seeing this anyway?

Werewolf

squexa posted...

There must be a lot of old people voting for OoT for win. Doubt many Gen Z even know what the game is.

Let me tell you about a little system called the 3DS.

Thats horrible, RIP.

8/10. Its a very good case with one of the best minor villains.

Im guessing their autoban probably thinks its solicitation lol.