Lurker > Kenri

-FFDragon- posted...

Not that I want to lend credence to the argument, but diabetics can't serve since having to have insulin while deployed is a mission hazard. Same thing when you are deployed you can't wear contacts, since the cleaning solution is an extrenous add. So if they are actively transitioning, adding the hormones to the mission would disqualify them.

I don't know how long a full transition takes, but if you are non-deployable you are no good in the military's eyes. But otherwise, there's no real argument.

There's no such thing as a "full transition" really -- or rather the concept of transitioning it nebulous and personal, not strictly defined with beginning and end points. Re: hormones, if you want the effects of HRT, I believe you have to keep taking hormones indefinitely (but don't quote me on this I'm not 100% sure). That said, not all trans people are on HRT at all, so *shrug*

Does the military really not deploy anyone with any sort of prescribed meds? That seems limiting, though I guess they already target poor people for recruitment and they're less likely to have access to prescription drugs anyway.
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McCain is one of the most deceptive, dishonest senators we've got and it's frankly incredible that people keep falling for his horseshit.
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He seems to legitimately not understand that the other branches of government are co-equal and not subservient to the executive.

Which is good, because it means he gets blindsided when his stupid agenda can't pass through effortlessly.
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I dunno dude it sounds to me like you're trying to justify a group of British soldiers (why were they in a situation where they were being harassed and threatened to begin with?) massacring their own people. I don't really care if they were defended by Jesus Christ himself. Mind you my area of history is significantly later than this so I'm not super well-informed about it, but you're gonna have to try REALLY hard to get me to ever, ever say soldiers are justified shooting at civilians, for any reason.

dowolf posted...

This idea, that we do not judge others without proof or evidence, is a fundamental cornerstone of our country.

Also: no it's not, we just say it is. If the system wasn't fucked then of course I'd take its conclusions more seriously into consideration.
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dowolf posted...

You are approaching this hypothetical very lazily. Yes, the employer may have an interest in removing an employee at an early stage, but is this ethical?

Ethics questions are generally very simple, if you are willing and able to drop your biases and reduce the problem to its core truths; once you have those tenets, you can expand them out to seemingly complex situations. Of course, doing that is no easy thing. I would argue, however, that it is worthwhile.

I don't feel like I'm being lazy with it at all, and I already answered whether it's ethical (in some cases: very yes). On the contrary, I think expecting this situation to be reducible to "core truths" is a lazy way of dealing with it, especially when a core truth is that the person involved is a police officer and you've already said to disregard that.

Like, I'm not sure what you want from me. I'm not going to give you a one-size-fits-all answer here.
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I'm not actually convinced the state should be in the business of punishment at all. But there's no way to stop society from informally punishing people at step 1 (accusation), or even before that. I guess in an ideal world we'd wait for the trial and the verdict, but at the same time if I'm a business owner I'm sure as shit not going to keep employing someone after they're caught on tape trying to frame someone for drug possession. But all this is kind of outside the realm of reality and into the realm of "my wacky political/philosophical ideas".

It's kind of hard to answer this question without considering that the person's a cop, because the state being both employer and justice-dispenser is a unique situation that changes things. I think we definitely disagree on it being irrelevant, because an ideal world is so different in my head that it's hard to even translate this scenario to it.
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p sure it's called tales of symphonia
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dowolf posted...

Let's spin this around, remove all the emotion that is connected with police cases, and let's look at it neutrally. There's three stages here: being accused of a crime; being arrested/charged with a crime, and being found guilty of a crime. At what point is it appropriate to punish the person?

Are you asking me how it actually works in our society or how I think it should work, like, philosophically?
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

But what is the alternative? Suppose you have an innocent cop accused of wrongdoing. They have to suspend him pending an investigation (protocol). Are they just supposed to not pay him? Some investigations take a long time. And now a potentially innocent cop can't support himself or his family as a result of unproved accusations?

The alternative is whatever happens to you if you're not a cop and you're caught on tape planting drugs somewhere.

So like, I don't actually know what happens there for certain, but I assume being arrested is the first step. Maybe being fired? That would depend on circumstance, I guess.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

I side with Wang on the drug planting cops. Suspension is the first step.

But we see this time and again.

1) Cop does something bad.
2) Cop get's suspended (because that's the first step).
3) People cry out that cop's never get in trouble.

People say cops never get in trouble because this is a slap on the wrist compared to if you did the same thing at like any other job. I think people are aware that you can't just fire cops, they're just not sure why the system is set up like that in a society that ostensibly cares about its justice system.
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Wanglicious posted...

there's no proof of this claim, no proof that McCain wrote anything, and it's highly doubtful that he would've since he wouldn't be able to do anything either; he's a federal senator and health insurance is a state issue.

I think you're severely underselling the influence of a senator here, especially one with as much clout as McCain. He could have done something if the issue actually got to him and he cared -- spoken out about it at least. That said, my assumption was always that it was his office that responded, but his office speaks for him so it's not really a better look.
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Wanglicious posted...

the washington post states two people talked to them about this.
the same two people who leaked this info to the washington post are the ones who said that it isn't him talking about himself.

It's admittedly hard to tell because no names are used but I don't think this is true. I think it's two people gave them info, then WaPo reached out for comment and got responses from aides (not the legal team they asked first, though).

Also:
Kenri posted...

Wanglicious posted...

the bit about pardoning himself? yeah, that's just something that they themselves admit is just them running with a completely made up idea.

where do they admit this

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Wanglicious posted...

the bit about pardoning himself? yeah, that's just something that they themselves admit is just them running with a completely made up idea.

where do they admit this
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I can't believe Wang is uncritically taking Trump's aide's PR spin at face value.

I mean, I can, that seems exactly like something he'd do, but uh... you know I'm not sure where I was going with this.
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Once you abolish the filibuster, you just abolish the opposition party too. What are they gonna do to stop you? Filibuster? Lmao nope. It's the perfect plan.
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Way more than 45% of people will support a cop they've never even heard of before in that same situation, not surprising they'd do the same here with someone they're mentally invested in.
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I guess my point is that the GOP in Congress just spent 8 years doing literally nothing but obstructing Obama and now they have a president who can't even define the word "president" so all he does is try to undo everything from the last 8 years that didn't get obstructed. The GOP is functionally just the party of Fuck-the-Democrats; if they compromise now, the last decade is basically a wash and they betray everyone who supported them through it all (not that they care about betrayal, but they care about maintaining support).

Maybe they can rebrand as "compromise is HOW we'll stick it to those dirty libs!". I don't see it winning over their new base that's all about calling people cucks, though.
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Reg posted...

Here's hoping that if McConnell is forced out as majority leader in 2018, it's to somebody who doesn't subscribe to Shit Newt's "Compromise is a dirty word" school of thought

What else does the GOP have at this point?
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FFDragon posted...

i thought getting millions of dollars head start from daddy made our president a multi-billionaire

why let reality get in the way of your narrative tho
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Anecdotal but I don't know if I've ever seen someone buy a 6 pack of Bud Light. 30 pack, sure.
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Me, a responsible gun owner: So I've thought a lot about how quick and easy it would be for me to shoot up this place, and given how simple it would be to just massacre everyone here I've decided that I need 45 guns, you know, for my own protection
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i just live in a giant gun and the barrel is the doorway so if anyone tries to break in i can just shoot them with my house
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There's like internalized racism, but I wouldn't really call it that for the situation you described.
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Espeon posted...

social prosperity we got from 1954 to 1994

tbf any social prosperity we got out of this era was something the government, even the democrats in it, had to be dragged towards kicking and screaming
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Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

Is everybody Trump hires a psycho?

https://twitter.com/JustinElliott/status/885599078293352448

https://twitter.com/seanspicer/status/300786700173598722

ngl that's a great shitpost

if only it was intentionally so
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What brain?
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red sox 777 posted...

I feel like I should not have to get sidetracked in these discussions by having to explain basic concepts in economics

i know that feel, bro
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red sox 777 posted...

No one said anything about elasticity yet.

Aside from the post I initially replied to??

Am I being trolled here? I can never tell with you. If so you got me, either way I'm done if you can't even pay attention for like 4 whole posts.
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red sox 777 posted...

Kenri posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That is exactly how demand is defined, actually. The economic term means slightly more than "I want it."

I want to see what your world looks like, where there's no such thing as demand that isn't being satisfied by the market. It sounds interesting, and also completely unlike how economics actually works.

That's not what I said.....

I said demand is inherently connected to price points. For example, at the price of X, people want to buy Y units of abc.

do you remember like three posts ago where I sarcastically said "there's no demand if people can't afford the thing" and you said that was exactly how demand is defined

like i'm glad you're walking it back, but a little self-reflection, please?

anyway you're still ignoring the existence of inelastic goods i.e. goods that don't act the way you're describing (nothing's perfectly inelastic but health care comes as close as anything)
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red sox 777 posted...

That is exactly how demand is defined, actually. The economic term means slightly more than "I want it."

I want to see what your world looks like, where there's no such thing as demand that isn't being satisfied by the market. It sounds interesting, and also completely unlike how economics actually works.
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dowolf posted...

1) Demand for medical aid is inelastic.

*defines demand in such a way that there's no demand if someone can't afford the thing, in order to make my argument work*

nuh-uh!
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Seginustemple posted...

Of course it's a valid insult, people are insulted by it.

but is anyone, really
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Well, insomuch as white people make up a huge fraction of the GOP base

Trump wasn't 100% appealing to the standard GOP base but I get your point, and should have mentioned this in my post.
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Obligatory reminder that Trump was elected off the back of white people more so than the uneducated.
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kevwaffles posted...

he's not that stupid.

People always say this but uh.
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Now let's apply the same standard to cops.
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Metal_DK posted...

Its becoming more and more obvious that Trump winning was L-Block on the national stage. Crazy

Obama was L-Block, we just didn't realize it at the time.

Trump is more like Draven.
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FFDragon posted...

I mean the president has been calling journalists the enemy of the american people for a while now.

Does this extend to mean that news crews are stirring up antagonistic feelings and so they shouldn't be able to do live stories on location?


(this is (slightly) facetious, but also a logical extension of what can happen once you start clamping down on things unjustly)

Quite the opposite, it means the president should be in jail for inciting violence against the press!

(And for all that other stuff he did.)
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Not to return to an argument from last topic, but Nazism absolutely is a form of Leftism, as clearly evidenced by the quotes.

Not to return to a counterargument from last topic, but if you think Nazism fits neatly into the left or the right, you don't understand the left or the right or Nazism.
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I think it honestly might be 0 and I have 200+ games on Steam...
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MrGreenonion posted...

I retrieved the gun and managed to shoot him

wow so much for the tolerant left
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SupremeZero posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

GuessMyUserName posted...

who'd of thought we'd get Rick Perry delivering the Quote of the Week

"Here?s a little economics lesson: supply and demand. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow,"

*who'd have

*Whodathunk

*who dat hunk
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Everyone Argues With Wang About Nothing Containment Topic

it's like fiercely debating an automatic reply email
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I feel like you've just answered your own questions, dude.
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Same reason cis people are "born that way" and it's such an unforgivable insult to say that they chose to live as whatever gender they are.
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"I'm not justifying it, but I am saying that when you falsely accuse someone of blackmail, just like I have, you should expect people who believe that story to send them death threats."
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StealThisSheen posted...

How are the differences "arbitrary" and things humans decided are differences?

Well, to use even your example, tigers and lions (for example) can reproduce, so it's not as simple as reproduction == same species. Or is it? I think that might also be a current debate, either way it's not as simple as you're claiming.

But also, you're the one stuck on reproduction as the only form of classification. You even just said "animals", which is already a classification that treats snakes and birds as the same (as in "I have one bird and one snake; I have two animals").

Either way, this is dumb and irrelevant and I'm not gonna humor it anymore.
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StealThisSheen posted...

No, we went beyond this and got specific, since you said we could just make up a classification that says birds and snakes are the same thing.

...yes, and you can, it just can't be based around reproduction

???
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StealThisSheen posted...

If a bird can't fuck a snake and have snakebird babies, than that is nature basically saying... Yes, these things are different.

A human can't fuck a dog and have bappies either but they're both mammals so I'm not sure why you're picking this hill to die on, there are obviously different systems of classification than the one you've chosen.

But yes, it is a really dumb argument.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Doesn't nature classify by the fact that birds can't fuck snakes and have snakebird babies?

Nope! Because "can reproduce with each other" would be a form of classification humans decided on, and only one of many.
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