Lurker > DoomTheGyarados

eaed [8] - (Han), Neablis, (IGCD), (ben), (Scare), (Hb), (Sheep), DYL, (Reg), Death, Reg, Sheep, Shad, IGCD

Okay so Anon doesn't count and reg is dead

Neablis, Death, Sheep, Shad, IGCD, DYL.

We are not going to lynch anyone off this wagon unless it is follow the scanner tbh.

5 scum left, 2-5 scum in this list really, and 2 is being really kind.

0-1 on reg (plum. It's only ever plum, and even that is very ehhh)

0-2 off wagon (John, Red, Mzero, never Corrik)

That's the wagon fun of the day. Also um... yeah never plum today btw. Let scanners scan him, since godfather is dead. He is never blindly lynched. He killed the godfather detective. Ie mafia thought he'd just be scanned and probably felt bold in voting him.
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Sir Chris

IfGodCouldDie posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hi God. My name is Chris. My slot is pretty much confirmed. Claim in your next post or Ben shoots you tonight.

(Right, Ben?)

I don't care.

##vote: IGCD

I'm good tbh
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Sir Chris

Hi God. My name is Chris. My slot is pretty much confirmed. Claim in your next post or Ben shoots you tonight.

(Right, Ben?)
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Sir Chris

Hbthebattle posted...

I've been mildly suspicious of Red myself

Reg/Sheep/Red/IGCD/an inactive or two seems like a possible assessment of our scumteam

Yup
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Sir Chris

Everyone on ed should just claim tbh.
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Sir Chris

benjamin3740 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Oh good I don't have to butcher regaro for my guy Terra.

Hi guys.

Oh hey

So I take it you were following along day 1 and screaming at your computer for us to kill Reg or something? Anyone else stand out to you like that?

I skimmed but as soon as I saw terra was town
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Sir Chris

Everyone on regaro is town.

Period the end.

Moving on...!
Also corrik
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Sir Chris

Oh good I don't have to butcher regaro for my guy Terra.

Hi guys.
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Sir Chris

Replacement tag.
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Sir Chris

Good.

Medicare for all time
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Sir Chris

Boo
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Sir Chris

In to replace.

I am learning
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Sir Chris

Nah I have a lot of experience with open- mass claim is a very bad idea. Scum tend to have good counters.
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Sir Chris

Leafeon13N posted...

How to win at open setup: mass claim immediately. Doctor claims vanilla.

Nah because open setups are low power.

So in a game of 16 town has like 3 power.
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Sir Chris

Open set ups are a thing and wildly successful, and roles which have a set meta should be done away with.
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Sir Chris

Fuck.
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Sir Chris

Asking for a watcher to be in every game instead of a strongman as it is now to not to be is silly and just antagonistic to my point tbh.
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Sir Chris

Zelda fought the LAW, and the LAW won.
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Sir Chris

L-Block?
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Sir Chris

Tracker is extremely low odds (and the same as a normal kill) and Watcher is a sparsely used role. If Watcher was also in every game it might be different.
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Sir Chris

Also ways to deal with power: role stripper where you turn them into a vanilla.
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Sir Chris

Also protip for those who vote your town doc, Terra was on the scum jack in a 5-4 split. Probably town.
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Sir Chris

Terra-enforcer posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yes, you do, considering I caught two scum hopping to the town inactive but you (and no one else) seemed bothered to realize it was a town/scum lynch which meant votals matter. But tell me more how nothing could have been learned from that lynch.

That was definitely mentioned several times. I know I specifically had it in my notes, but I didn't have a chance to say it because someone had already made the point.

Look I am sorry to be be whole game blunt but HB/Hom/Pen just protected scum every time and they were never lynched so you may have brought it up but we're in an end game where town got its ass kicked so bringing it up and actualizing are the same thing to me. It's about pushing it properly, stop splitting hairs.
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Sir Chris

Here let me help:

Jedimess [5] - Chris, jombad46, (Ben), (Scare), Pendadragon, (Pirate), Scare, (Pirate), (HB), Ben
Scare [4] - (Chris), (Ben), (LoLo), Death, (Han), (FD), Doop, Terra, Han
Chris [3] - (Scare), (Sultan), (Han), Shonen, Lolo, Pirate
red13n [1] - (FD), (Chris), (Ben), (Shonen), (Han), (Lolo), (Sultan), (HB), FD, (Pirate)
Han [1] - (HB), Geno
Terra [1] - Sultan
Lolo [0] - (Han)
death [0] - (Ben), (Scare), (Pirate), (Ben)
FD [0] - (Scare)
geno [0] - (hombad46), (HB)
hombad46 [0] - (Sultan)

Day 2 Votals:
[8] Han - Scare, (Ben), Pendragon, (Sultan), (HB), FD, lolo, Death, (Shoenin), HB, (Pirate), Hombad, Pirate

The only person who was town who ended on Jedimess aside from me was Ben. Scare/Pen/Hom (and the latter two weren't with me for other lynches)

No FD. No.
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Sir Chris

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Because you caused everyone to follow you from target to target to target, so their movement from one to the other was immaterial.

There was the SAME amount of chris-induced movement from scum red to scum scare, as there was from scum scare to town jedi.

But players had given their thoughts on red.
And players had given their thoughts on scare.

And players had say "hrmm, who is that" about Jedi, with no alignment indicative thoughts whatsoever.

They followed you to jedi because you are chris. Scum may have followed you because it gave them an excuse to not lynch scare, but that is utterly indistinguishable from town following you because they don't have any better ideas day 1 and here you are commanding all the attention in the world so why not?

No FD, it wasn't. That's just the lie you tell yourself. I looked at the votals night 1 and was like "Interesting/" And then if you had looked at the votals day 2 you would have noticed names in common with han lynchers and jedimess lynchers. But you didn't. So just stop.
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Sir Chris

Like I am so sick of having my worst day examined and nitpicked and blah blah blah over and over because ON MY WORST DAY OF DATA ANALYSIS, THE ONLY DAY I GET TO LIVE I was heavily annoyed that someone went completely idle and didn't care about the game after I had successfully poked red (I shot him so obviously I knew he was scum) and had all but murdered scare for everyone (My mistake for letting that go but let's be real red was right not like anyone else was doing anything) for some guy with days and days of information to just make bad decisions and then tell me "hurr day 1 you weren't perfect" while not even understanding the information that my play actually DID give him.

Like.. fuck.
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Sir Chris

Yes, you do, considering I caught two scum hopping to the town inactive but you (and no one else) seemed bothered to realize it was a town/scum lynch which meant votals matter. But tell me more how nothing could have been learned from that lynch.
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Sir Chris

You are never going to improve if you are this arrogant. Probably won't want to be in another game with you for quite some time, FD.
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Sir Chris

Right so hello again, I think there are two important things to consider when I talk about strongman as a role.

First, I speak out of frustration because the role has become a kill Chris button. God that's not fun for me. And in fact in the last game scum didn't need their strongman, no protection saved me. It's just the fact that with strongman scum doesn't even have to hesitate, and that is also bad role design.

For example in my recent game (... I forget my own flavor... music?) I had a strongman that was a 100% sure kill if you knew the person's role along with your choice to kill them. So for example if day 1 I messed around and claimed, it activates. Or if they decided to use their scanner night 1 on a high powered target they get to murder them night 2. Or if they force a claim they could still in theory murder night 1. I love the elegance of this role because the kill is a reward for play. It rewards pressure or punishes lax play or it rewards scum's choice to use a power on a member of town and follow it up.

I think strongman is a needlessly lazy role. Scum already win a vast majority of the games in this community. There is push back because of the selfish nature of this idea from me but frankly it isn't a bad one just because I am being selfish. Asking for elegance in setup design is not a bad thing just because it benefits me. Also I am not even asking for a stacked deck, I would just like to be able to sometimes play the game longer or if scum wants to shoot me night 1 they at least have to take some risk in that play.

I know in my heart that is not asking for too much. As a host, as someone with a great eye for balance, I know I am both being selfish but also making a good point.

There are plenty of toys for scum, and there are many roles that can be invented.
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Sir Chris

I wasn't really trying to say otherwise. Yes, I no longer wish to die automatically night 1.

I mean... yes. It is that simple. I guess if the community doesn't want to have empathy for me I just will walk away. I literally have better things to do with my time than die night 1 90% of the time as town. You have spoken it isn't a problem. I raised my concern, people reject it.

Also I am sleepy but when I got compared to alakazam I rolled my eyes.
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Sir Chris

I dont know the golden age of mafia where games were limited to 17 was pretty great for board 8 mafia.

Also I come back mostly to help or for very fun games but the selfish paradigm I have embraced is things need to be fun. How do you think any player had fun dying night 1 all the time because hosts rely on crutches in order to host. This is a multi level critique because excuse me wanting to actually play but also as one of the more thoughtful hosts strongman just isnt elegant.
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Sir Chris

red13n posted...

I mean, and it happened to us this game, we'd already had protection die. We shot at power, and town had another protection up their sleeve.

is that somehow a skill? Were we supposed to assume double protection with a roleblocker?

you are talking about skillful shots but mostly its a "Chris doesnt want to die". Its a you issue, not a larger issue.

Btw you had 6/18 so yes. Assume power for town as 6/18 is bad tbh
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Sir Chris

Then roleblock me. Or have a power where if you know my role it can be a strongman.

Truth be told I am never dying to a regular strongman again because it just is no longer worth my time to sign up without assurances.
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Sir Chris

Or we ban regular strongman. Come up with better ideas. Reward skillfully selecting targets.
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Sir Chris

red13n posted...

Also we dangled scare in front of you and you backed off from the lynch.

Inactives also piss me off. I deal with a lot in this community that I dont elsewhere. Imagine for a moment a game with no inactives, town talking with me, and no strongman
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Sir Chris

red13n posted...

also banning strongman is dumb. Roles are banned/etc for game balance. Silencer isn't balanced. It removes the ability to talk and vote. Its essentially +1 scum among a host of other issues like basically not allowing a living player to play.

Nothing about strongman broke the game. In fact, had town simply used its powers correctly(So many used on obvious scum), used lynched correctly on 50/50s even once, the game was an easy town win. Town lost because of their own play, not because of any broken role.

Oh this was not about this game. I am sick of dying night 1
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Sir Chris

More direct vote analysis.
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Sir Chris

If you think the removal of strongman cripples setups I need to teach a hosting setup.
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Sir Chris

I used a variant where it was a strongman if mafia guessed the person's role right. I thought that was clever and made role fishing more user friendly.
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Sir Chris

I dont have a list handy. It was more of a broad stroke statement.

But I will argue against strongman all day. It is so thoughtless. Why does it need to be night 1 ability.
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Sir Chris

Strongman is a skill-less role. Mafia should be about skill. Mafia should earn their night kills. Why would I even bother signing up in a community where if i am town I am cut down.
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Sir Chris

You guys were really naked in your town murdering. You got away with it here but that's asking for trouble in further games. Seriously. Super murdery of town.

That and that claim of yours was really bad.
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Sir Chris

eaedwards6400 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I can actually do whatever I want. I single handedly made games for over 2 years be limited to 17 players. Basically I guess hosts can choose between their crappy strongman or me in the game.

Well, like with picking Corrik and Shad over Ulti. Games will likely go on without you because like in the game itself plurality is key and no one should should reveal their setup to appease you before the game starts.

We banned silencer. We can ban strongman.
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Sir Chris

Hbthebattle posted...

Chris, for the record, I wanted to not kill you Night 1 to see if we could get Han to attempt to lynch you.
I was sadly shot down, I thought that would have been interesting.

Confirmed vig innocent scanned Chris solos your team tbh
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Sir Chris

Lolo_Guru posted...

is your newbie topic still around chris

It purged when I got sick, have a google doc though will work on it privately and publish it complete
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Sir Chris

I can actually do whatever I want. I single handedly made games for over 2 years be limited to 17 players. Basically I guess hosts can choose between their crappy strongman or me in the game.
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Sir Chris

Shonen_Bat posted...

Hey, I don't want to call anyone out or offend anyone, but why is this game taken as seriously as it is? The stakes are pretty low and games seem to be reasonably frequent.

I suppose I'll field this. Because I like doing well in my hobbies. I devote time and energy to this game. If I didn't want to take it seriously I just wouldn't play. I would do something else. Because I value my time tremendously and to see it played really poorly is just upsetting.
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Sir Chris

Also I was todl if Han BGs me it would have stopped the unblockable. What a different game that would have been.
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Sir Chris

Hbthebattle posted...

How in the goddamn did you guys pull off that in the last 2 hours I wasnt there
Jesus Christ I thought Pen was screwed

Wtf

They didn't, town just played it very poorly. Again, no offense guys, you play to win and you won but like... town killed their power for the most part not scum.

The EoD switch to Bat and Terra were unforced errors really.

Also you had a very good day 1, gj HB. Was not nearly as impressed with you and hom when you kept doing mental gynmnastics to vote town but no one alive noticed so
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Sir Chris

Just going to pour myself a whiskey here and sit on down.

Scum, you can leave the topic whenever. I think you played a poor game but I am not going to be the man who degrades scum for doing what it needed to win, so good job on the win. You never have to apologize for winning the game of mafia, despite some critique I may level later on here they are mostly critique of town in responding. You won, good job.

Just going to take a sip of my drink.

I am really angry as someone who just loves mafia. I am trying really hard to just take deep, calming breaths and not to lash out as this was probably physically painful for me to watch.

First off, FD and Sultan... please never invoke my name in a game of mafia again. If you do, and I see it, I will interrupt the game and say you do not speak to me. There is no player or host that is going to stop me from saying that. You do not get to invoke the name of Chris in your play ever again. I do not care more about this community at moment than I do my personal pride, you will not sully my good name.

Secondly, this community is banning strongman or I am not playing anymore. It is a thoughtless, trash role that is made more thoughtless and more trash because it may as well be called a Kill Chris button. Mafia should be a game of skill. Not of thoughtless obvious play. I would love to hear the counter argument that mafia NEEDS an assured night kill like that given that it is almost exclusively used on me.

Thirdly props to Han for understanding that when scum trade they do not trade, they bring you closer to death. No one else in this game seemed to understand that scum trading themselves 1 for 1 is often EXTREMELY valuable to themselves. Because outside of Vigs (so I made up for my mislynch day 1 by burying Red, and not that anyone cared to do wagon analysis but my going to jedimess baited two scum to switch off of scum Scare but literally no one just did simple vote analysis the entire game, instead trying to do some weird, fancy version instead of seeing that HB/Pen/Homwere on the wrong contested lynch every time basically but I guess no one wanted to care about that) but yeah. Trade are often in scum's favor. Why people do not think so, I don't know.

Fourthly, one cop and one prostitute is pretty underpowered for two scanning in 18. Why anyone thought there was too much scanning is baffling to me. You were just wrong. I would have expected there to be more scanning if not for the fact that town had a RB/Doctor/BG which is extensive protection. But to constantly question both cop and prosty on balance reasons is just not knowing how to balance a game. At all. You should never speak on balance of a game again based off of that.

Fifthly, I like how when it became obvious there was a doctor and an RB and a BG no one turned to the horrible lightning rod claim and be like Um, there's no way. Not one person did this. I am not going to degrade HB, you play to your audience after all, but shame on town.

Sixthly, which my word processor tells me is not a word, if you don't have time to play don't sign up. Town lost this game because Terra could not play properly. I am not saying Terra made bad decisions, but it is unacceptable for so much time to pass and for a player to be unavailable. It's just not. If Terra counters that same day Pen dies, flips Untrackable, and Bat is confirmed because Untrackable is the counter to his role and the game plays out much differently. Instead a slot goes silent and town makes a poor decision because of it.

I am just so done for now. No one did any scum hunting (aside from Han), you just saw red's corpse drop and finished off the mangled corpse of Scare a day late after murdering someone over him.

I have had the flu all week and I feel sicker to my stomach now than I did during the height of it.
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Sir Chris