Lurker > MetalmindStats

Also agreed I guess.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

"Dragon Ball Z. Uh, Goku."

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Steely Dan - Rikki Don't Lose That Number
The Fixx - Saved by Zero

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Zigzagoon posted...

Favorite: Nintendo
Least: Not sure
Most Overrated: CD Projekt

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

"2020 Game of the Year", followed very quickly by Hades.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Yeah, Low Fodder for all.

Nominate Sayori, Shuma-Gorath, and Super-Skrull.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Thank you for posting all this, Johnbobb. I know it's rather anodyne, but I want to reiterate that I, too, care about you, and I'm always open to listen if you ever want to talk.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

AxemRedRanger posted...

Agreed with halfsilver.

Nominate Beast, Colossus, Dazzler, Iceman, Jubilee, Juggernaut, MODOK, Sentinel, and X-23.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Gris (PC)

Oops, guess I'll have to play this again if it gets selected for February's GotM (hopefully not since it leaves Game Pass on February 1st, which I didn't know when I nominated it). Great game, though.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Ryu

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

hylianknight3 posted...

George Washington

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Agree with halfsilver.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

https://pastebin.com/gMwzdkN8

Above is my contribution to the renewed 2015 CT/Ocarina debate from last page, additionally inspired by Ulti's PCA. I apologize if someone has already tried setting CT equal to Ocarina and following through from there before.

Some notes on the adjustments (or lack thereof) and games included (or excluded):

• The first list all the way down to Hearthstone has no adjustments at all beyond the assumption that CT was indirectly exactly on par with Ocarina in 2015. As such, take Divisions 6-8 with a grain of salt, especially LttP and MGS3's eightpacks.
• I technically could have included the back half of Division 1 and all of Division 2 in said list by using rallied Melee's value from its CT match, but I didn't feel Melee had sufficient transitivity to give those stats any credence.
• The second list represents my attempt to apply adjustments to broaden the frame of comparison between CT and Ocarina. I calculated rallied Melee from its CT match, as mentioned above, and then derived FFVII's value by assuming both games faced the same Melee. This puts FFVII almost exactly in between its bottom end, from its bonus match with Ocarina, and its top end, from its match with FFVI and CT's bonus match with FFVI.
• For FFVI, I instead opted for its bonus match percent on CT, as deriving its value from its match with FFVII would put it noticeably lower than its direct score on CT, implying that rSFF there is more likely than FFVII SFFing FFVI.
• That FFVI adjustment then gave me a metric by which to gauge SFF in OoT/LttP. I bumped Division 6 up by the same amount on the premise that the SFF would stack up comparably in those parallel matches, one which series PotD results relative to LFF also seem to support, for whatever that's worth.
• Unrallied Melee, and consequently the back half of Division 1, comes from Melee's registered voter percent against CT. As TRE pointed out, this might actually highball unrallied Melee, but it's the best guess we have at what a standard full match between the two games would have looked like.
• These adjusted stats likely overrate Majora's eightpack and certainly underrate GSC (+TWEWY). I found insufficient hard data to adjust either case further given how there was no clear starting point for Melee's rallies against GSC or gauge of what rallied voters and contest circumstances might have done to LttP/Majora.
• Neither list includes any games from Divisions 3 or 4 as a consequence of rallied Undertale's complete lack of transitivity leaving no easy metrics by which to measure those divisions relative to the rest of the field.

Also note that this is all a thought experiment stemming from a single assumption, one which may or may not be accurate. (I personally don't think it is, in fact.) I hope this nonetheless complements KP's adjusted stats as a means of gauging the realistic possibilities for how CT and Ocarina compare.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Also agree with Axem I guess. Nominate Vectorman, Weepinbell, Electabuzz, Nidorina, Dugtrio, and Steelix.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Jesse_Custer posted...

Peter Gabriel - In Your Eyes

Seginustemple posted...

The Alan Parsons Project - Eye in the Sky

HM to Eyes Without a Face.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

"Hogwarts teacher."

For a non-regurgitation, "Griffledim".

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Agree with Axem.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Hades
-
-
-

Murder by Numbers

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

I'm going to say Low Fodder for all three.

Metal Slug probably isn't completely terrible based on its one relevant poll appearance, so I assume something named identically to the franchise can harness enough of that strength to avoid LAW Fodder.

I can't see Wigglytuff weighing in only one tier under the Smasher and early anime mainstay it evolves from. Perhaps we've just underranked Jigglypuff on the presumption that MMX didn't meaningfully SFF it, in which case I'm not even sure about two tiers. This would probably be different if I had any reason to believe this site truly cares about Mystery Dungeon.

Nominate Fio, Heero Yuy, and Taskmaster.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Agree with halfsilver. Even the most popular GoT characters might be overranked after that show's final season seemed to cause most watchers to sour on it.

Nominate Iron Fist, Metal Slug, and Xemnas.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

LeonhartFour posted...

DK's results were noticeably better. It wasn't just what he did. It was how he did it. He beat two characters he's been clearly weaker than before now and put up a better number on a better Vivi. I guess you can argue that everyone around him got worse, but it feels easier to say DK just got better.

I agree that he's improved, but let me put it this way: I don't think current DK would break 55% on 2013 DK (possibly fueled by DKCR, I admit), and certainly not 60% on 2010 DK. Obviously Leon and Dragonborn got worse, but it's hard to say whether or not Tidus becoming better-liked and more respected with age has been enough to save him from FFX's general strength trend.

I'll certainly give you that Crono & co. haven't trended upward as clearly as DK, and most of it has been obfuscated by their draws. However, I will say that 2018 Crono was distinctly above Sonic and Sephiroth, whereas 2006-2010 Crono was on the lowest rung of the Noble Nine, and both 2013 and 2018 Crono were dead even with Pikachu in neutral circumstances, versus 2008 Crono struggling to beat a much weaker Pikachu.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

I don't think FFX/FFIX in the first GOTD was an SFF match. It didn't seem to skew the stats in any noticeable way, for instance Mass Effect and KOTOR are still equal even though KOTOR was supposedly stuck under FFX/FFIX SFF.

Hmm, looking at the GotD matches and stats again, I see where you're coming from. I suppose it's at least debatable either way; I'd be curious to see what a set of adjusted stats by someone like KP has to say about the matter.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

half_silver28 posted...

I've moved to the west coast so new topics will be going up later in general.

Welcome!

Also, I'll agree with Axem; though Half-Life: Alyx didn't look totally worthless here, that's also obviously not a comparable situation. I don't see the factors halfsilver mentioned helping people remember Metapod half as much as it looking like a green (or just unripe) banana, which obviously won't bring votes.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Advokaiser posted...

Sure, Crash: N Sane Trilogy and DKC: Tropical Freeze may not be worth much, but I definitely see them as direct boosters for Crash and DK respectively.

To be fair, we've never seen N. Sane Trilogy in any sort of relevant poll, but given how it first came out barely a year before CBX and that it seemed to be a huge hit, I have no problem believing it boosted Crash. On the other hand, Tropical Freeze was pretty close to 5 years old by the time of CBX, and it subsequently proved it had no strength to speak of in GotD 2. And frankly, DK's CBX results weren't that much better than what he had shown before, it's just that a previously known choke artist scoring two big upsets tends to skew perceptions. Unlike Crash, DK's boost falls well into the realm of difference covered by forced apathy and doubled registered user votes.

Advokaiser posted...

I forgot completely that FFX nearly doubled FFIX 10 years ago, and then OoT had a similar result against it 5 years later.

The former is a clear SFF match relative to the other GotD results those two games put up. For a more direct comparison, FFIX went from narrowly beating KotOR to narrowly besting Kingdom Hearts in those five years, which is a pretty clear boost even if it merely proved transient for Zidane.

Also, I'd say Crono, Frog, and Magus have all put up distinctly better results in the past two character battles than their early SB-era nadir, it's just that none of them improved nearly as much as CT itself.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Thanos

Do something like Marvel hero next and plug Vis' MCU ranking imo

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

MetalmindStats posted...

I'm hoping to come back tomorrow refreshed and figure it out en route to a hopeful finish.

Turns out this was just what I needed, as I simply wasn't processing something easy last night for whatever reason.

Metal has beaten The Gardens Between.

Yeah, I liked this, though I wouldn't quite say I loved it. I particularly appreciated the sense of build-up present in its puzzles and storytelling this session, alongside the absorbing atmosphere that stood out last time. That ending was also nice. It provided a chance for me to get emotional for a bit reflecting on my own memories, such as they are, alongside the ones I'd like to build. I could see myself coming back to this soon even though there's a dozen other games I'd like to get to before my three free months of Game Pass run out.

Speaking of which...
Remove my Hexcells nomination; nominate Gris and Halo: Combat Evolved.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Kenri posted...

Capital Cities - Safe and Sound

Yesmar_ posted...

The Wizard of Oz - Munchkinland Medley

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

AxemRedRanger posted...

Agreed with halfsilver. Victreeebel might be pushing it, a little.

Second Luke and third Tonberry and Voldo.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

So I somehow missed The Gardens Between being on Game Pass until just yesterday, which meant that I started playing it tonight. I'm on level 15, possibly genuinely stuck for the first time as I can only find one way to get both Arina and Frendt past the soda cans and that won't allow Arina's motion to turn the water blocking Frendt off. I'm hoping to come back tomorrow refreshed and figure it out en route to a hopeful finish. Otherwise, it's been pleasant enough so far.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Agree with Axem, in line with my previously expressed stances on real-world people in these contests.

Third Colonel Sanders.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Tears for Fears - Cold
Lena Raine - Heart of the Mountain

Yes, I suppose that second one might be a stretch, and no, I don't think I care.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

half_silver28 posted...

agree with axem

Nominate Cervantes, Drowzee, Metapod, Skarmory, Victreebel, and Wigglytuff.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Danganronpa because of the topic right below this one at the time.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

AxemRedRanger posted...

I guess agreed with halfsilver.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

"A deadly sin" and then "The seven deadly sins"

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Yes, though I've only seen the first Frozen, and even that was a while ago.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Agree with Axem. Nominate Bellsprout, Jaquio, and Nidoran M.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Ben Franklin

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Lightning Strikes posted...

You know what that means, Best Series Ever II coming 2021!

Yes, please.

Also LMS, I think you fundamentally misinterpreted my argument. I'm well aware that Zelda generally beats Smash even on an intra-console basis in the hierarchy here, and as my original WW/Melee post should have indicated, I'd also agree that WW is indirectly even at worst. The problem with extrapolating that to a direct match, though, is that Melee is the GameCube game, and WW just isn't that. As others have pointed out, Melee has thumped WW in every poll the two have shared, and Brawl even beat TP 1-on-1 against the will of the entire Melee fanbase for basically the same reason. Even if those are all very old indicators by this point, I'd tend to trust them more than a simple 2015 stat comparison for determining the winner of a Melee/WW match.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Advokaiser posted...

Um... I wouldn't count on a rallyless Undertale in a current setting. If anything, it seems to be even more dangerous thanks to all its exposure, spiritual sequel in development, Sans in Smash, etc.

I'm confused about what you think has changed between GotD, where Undertale notably didn't catch any rallies of even slight significance, and now.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Picking Wind Waker to beat Melee would also be throwing points away any day. That has been clear since their first contest. Melee has no reason to be weaker now, it's as relevant as ever!

To be fair, I get why the pick is being discussed in the absence of rallies - 47% on FF6 is a rather beastly result, and certainly better than anything unrallied Melee has ever done. That being said, I have no doubt that Melee would exert its hierarchy to win even a rally-free 1v1 match.

Advokaiser posted...

If we ever see Galaxy > KHII, we need to see GTAIV vs. MGS4!

For all my doomsaying, I have to concede that Galaxy v KHII could actually be an interesting match now, what with the real possibility the two games have moved somewhat in opposite directions. However, what strikes me as perhaps most peculiar about the original GTAIV v MGS4 discussion is that even Lightning Strikes has taken a Brawl fall for granted with the supposition of Fallout 3 beating it in spite of every direct result between the two. And that does make sense - after all, Brawl doesn't have much left going for it now that multiple newer Smash installments have obsoleted its predominant appeal, which would explain why it didn't even make 2015. Notably, all that just happens to sound like a certain GTA game, which isn't even from a series this site truly cares about to help it hold up either.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

I'll go with Low Fodder for all, and probably each (except Trevor) around the same area of the tier:

Allen being the admin of this site gets him some basic name value, but hardly anyone will have any zeal to vote for him against video game characters they actually know. Lethal Weapon is probably too old for this site, except the not-so-well-liked fourth movie, but I think the franchise has at least oscillated down to younger generations a bit. Meanwhile, I'd have to assume that any important NPC with a design that's not entirely generic from a game as strong as Fallout 3 can avoid LAW Fodder here.

I already discussed Trevor with my re-ranking nomination, to which I'll also add that he probably should have made CBX if he were to have any real strength here.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

SpikeSetsFire posted...

Eurythmics - Here Comes the Rain Again

Peter Gabriel - Red Rain

HM: Creedence Clearwater Revival - Have You Ever Seen the Rain

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Politics.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Lightning Strikes posted...

GTAIV
MGS4

Even if we run with your notion that the notorious black sheep of the 3D GTAs hasn't taken even the slightest hit in strength from no longer being the latest of its series, are you really going to take 40% on Super Mario Galaxy over 41% on Kingdom Hearts II? It's not like you can hold MGS' death against MGS4 when you don't think Fallout 76 has affected Fallout 3, especially given that 2020 MGSV looked about on par with 2015 MGSV.

I'd personally take Persona 4 and probably even MGS4 over Brawl, but those scenarios are a lot more debatable given how long it's been since we've properly seen Brawl in action.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

AxemRedRanger posted...

Agreed with halfsilver.

Also nominate Martin Riggs, President John Henry Eden, and SBAllen.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Yes

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

I can't agree on Hercules, sorry. I just don't see being the namesake of a third-tier Disney movie that came out a bit too late for most of this site being a whole tier stronger than his fan-favorite villain. In other words, Low Fodder for Hercules. Agree with halfsilver otherwise, though.

Nominate Trevor Philips for reranking on the basis that John Marston barely pushes Mid Fodder and he's the sole playable protagonist of a much more story and character-focused Rockstar game of similar strength.

Also, it was Axem who seconded Xianghua, not me. That being said, I'll third her anyways.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Nominate Hexcells I guess.

Also, happy birthday, KCF!

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Agree with Axem. Outside of the main game duo and Sora himself, Kingdom Hearts just doesn't seem to mean very much here anymore.

Nominate Hades (Final Fantasy).

Also, second/third Jaina, Hogger, Martian Manhunter, Cid (FFT), Venomoth, Curly Brace, and Hercules.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Also agree with Axem, especially since Up Your Arsenal has never looked remotely good in these contests.

Nominate Balloon Fighter and Roger Murtaugh, since apparently you missed them on the previous day.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.

Low Fodder for Johnny. I could maybe see V being Mid Fodder, but not a mere NPC in an open-world game (Keanu or no) after Cyberpunk's terrible GotY performance proved the hate stretches well beyond B8.

Agree with halfsilver otherwise; if Cloyster is Mid Fodder, so too is Tauros. As for The Player, their default design is decently recognizable (in part for its spritework as halfsilver mentioned), which probably pulls them through.

Nominate Balloon Fighter and Roger Murtaugh.

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"I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people who do."
Hylian hits dizzying heights others daren't aim for. He's the Celeste of Board 8 users.