Lurker > Inviso

Just trying to fill the topic before the next episode so we can start fresh.

Apparently the show has been insane on the feeds thus far.

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Troyzan posted...

That's because most of the run time was eaten up by 5 competitions, so we didn't get to see how truly annoying everyone is yet.

Yeah, but last year had a ton of competition stuff and it was still awful. I actually feel somewhat hopeful in a way I haven't felt since BB17.

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Inviso

That was one of the best premieres in a while. It feels like the first time in years when the same type of alliance might not come together to take over the season.

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Inviso

This is an interesting twist, but I would say absolutely don't do it. You either lose and lose your HoH/Safety this week, or you get double immunity, and risk people getting pissed and jealous, and wanting to target you even harder.

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My least favorite team (or my nightmare scenario first HoH) loses after dropping their puzzle like, two or three times. Love it. And my favorite team won first HoH. This is a good start, hopefully.

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Underleveled posted...

If you asked me who I thought the last man and last woman picked would be, I probably would have said Sara Beth, but definitely not Travis.

Same. I guessed Sarah Beth & Derek F., and Frenchie surprised me with his pick.

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Actually, we had Swaggy from that season.

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He was from Massachusetts, so that's on YOU guys. :P

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Underleveled posted...

Christian is going to be a huge DR shouter, isn't he?

As a Nutmegger, I apologize for sharing a state with Christian.

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Xavier is a very handsome man.

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Underleveled posted...

Probably.

I wonder how much less bad last season would have been with Josh in the mix. Probably depends on who his alternate was, and it most likely wasn't one of the worst-of-the-worst. My gut feeling is Enzo.

Memphis and Keesha were the alternates for Josh and Kaycee.

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Honestly, the pre-merge was the good part of the season with a bad boot order, and then post-merge had a horrible boot order, but was salvaged by the final episode having a near-perfect boot order.

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Yeah, obviously I'm not saying that Mikey/Patrick would've been in the finals if not for their respective unorthodox eliminations, but it's just weird how it worked out the way it did.

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Tough As Nails finale:

God that's disappointing. The most arrogant cast member is never in danger at any point in the season and wins the final challenge after taking the lead in stage two of seven and never relinquishing it. Scott SUUUUUUCKS. And I know people don't like when I go into SJW mode, but it's annoying that in two seasons of the show, they've cast only five white men out of twenty-four casting slots, and none of them have been eliminated by conventional means. Two winners, one runner-up, one medevac, one ejection. And ultimately, this season started stronger and ended MUCH weaker than season 1.

Freight Train > Iraida > Angel > Celi > Knuckles > Merryl > Zeus > Sarah > Tara > Swifty > Mikey > Scott

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I didn't realize how much Iraida was propping up the show for me these last few episodes (after Patrick's medevac). This episode just sucked the enjoyment I have for this season completely away. Not only did Dirty Hands (EASILY the team I preferred) get utterly destroyed in the tiebreaker team competition, but then my favorite player left (and the heart and soul of the show) gets eliminated in the overtime competition. It just sucks, because I look at the final four, and you have Zeus/Sarah, who are just overcompetitive workbots, Swifty, who is just a little too cocky for someone who's performed as mediocre-ly as he has, and Scott, who just sucks and is such an obnoxious overdog at this point that I once again have to fear that he's going to win the whole thing.

It also doesn't help that, aside from the first few rounds, the season's eliminations have been pretty predictable. Tara and Angel's eliminations were the only real shockers, but then the overdue Celi boot, Patrick's medevac, the slightly surprising but ultimately expected Merryl boot, and then the overdue Knuckles and Iraida boots...it's just eh. I remember last season, even though it was male-dominated (and my GOD Young sucked to beat out multiple more interesting female players), you still had Michelle, the ultimate underdog, taking out Lee and Luis. This season, the only men eliminated have been either due to ejection, medevac, or being paired up with another man in an arbitrary duo competition.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

I dunno, them actually airing that scene where he almost choked out Fairplay might keep him out of the top 10.

By that logic, airing Jane shittalking Marty's kids should disqualify her too.

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Rupert should absolutely be on the list.

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Tough As Nails watched. Not surprised to see Knuckles and Iraida in the bottom two, since the former has been a long time coming, and the latter just doesn't stack up to the other four. Definitely surprised to see Iraida knocking off another bigger character though, and starting to develop a story in the process.

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Yeah, Scott worries me because he's far and away my least favorite character left. But none of the others have a decent edit. Iraida and Swifty are completely irrelevant until they're necessary to the story. Zeus only started getting a story the past few episodes because SOMEONE has to be a threat to Scott's win. Knuckles is too wishy-washy and set up to fail. And Sarah doesn't even have a story.

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I'm genuinely surprised. Not only did I totally think this was Iraida's boot episode, given past trends on the show, but the fact that Merryl got booted came almost completely out of nowhere. Even during the individual competition, it just seemed so random.

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Sheep007 posted...

I still haven't finished v3, since I finished the first case and got a little demotivated when I realised they killed off one of two characters who I had even the slightest amount of interest in. I then proceeded to watch Danganronpa 3 the anime, which duly made the rest of the series as a whole worse in almost every way imaginable.

V3 has an amazing overall cast. And if the character you're referring to is who I think they are, then you've still got...one, two, three, four, five...six. Six characters better, and a handful that are only slightly worse. I love V3's cast so much.

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Dancedreamer posted...

What a world we live in where "People shouldn't die of easily treated illnesses, companies should pay workers fair wages, and people shouldn't have to go in extreme debt to get an education" is considered 'radical', but putting children in cages is considered 'normal'.

That's America for you. Our whole country was founded by people who didn't want to be told what to do and valued independence over any sort of collectivism for the greater good. And we continued that mindset by spending, what, 200 years profiting off the slave labor of peoples who we continuously go out of our way to oppress, as if they should be thankful we freed them from slavery and stop whining about equality. I've had this discussion several times in the past, but America is a highly conservative country, and we will fight against positive change to our dying breath because the majority of people will receive fewer benefits from that change than any number of "others" they see around them. It really sucks.

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I can't even tell who's arguing with who anymore.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

So what you're saying is...progressive hero Joe Manchin strikes again!

I wonder if this whole debacle is enough to actually shift Texas blue or at least closer to an actual toss up? I'd say probably not because they'll just find a way to blame the democrats, but if anything might make Texans be normal for even a little bit, it's this.

2021 isn't an election year or a midterm year, so no, no one will remember this by the time it's relevant to vote against the people who caused the problem in the first place.

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Wow. An uncoordinated STP, three hours later.

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Lightning Strikes posted...

Thor was the first good Thor movie.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh...

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I will say that, regardless of where it places, GotG2 has really livened up this ranking. For the most part, the rest of the list has been mostly "This should go out right about now", followed by that movie going out a within the new few spots. Maybe Iron Man went out a little early for some people, but others were predicting its elimination around the midpoint, and there it was. GotG2 has been predicted since around 19th place and is now in the final 6, so at least it kept things interesting.

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CoolCly posted...

uh oh

i did not rank The Avengers #1, as glowing as my review was

this entire project is a sham

Ah. Yours should've been three. It's alphabetically above Cybat's 3 and I must've typed wrong when making the post. It's correct on the score spreadsheet though.

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OUTLIERS:

Eddv - 123
PrinceKaro - 99
Johnbobb - 90
TomNook - 83
Jesse Custer - 81
BetrayedTangy - 79
VengefulKaelee - 73
Lopen - 69
GavsEvans123 - 68
Paratroopa1 - 68
Mr Crispy - 67
Inviso - 64
ScepterOfLove - 62
StifledSilence - 62
Raka Putra - 60
Maniac64 - 59
Snake5555555555 - 58
MetalmindStats - 57
HanOfTheNekos - 55
Illuminatusbubu - 54
XIII Rocks - 54
Corrik7 - 52
Red13n - 49
Whiskey Nick - 49
Anagram - 48
Cybat - 48
Mega Mana - 46
NBIceman - 45
CoolCly - 42
Sheep007 - 40
MetalDK - 39
ZenOfThunder 23

Zen officially blows the lead WIDE open as he opens up a 15+ gap between himself and the rest of the field. Eddv, meanwhile, adds five points to his score while the rest of his competitors remain relatively static. TomNook and Jesse Custer leapfrog over Tangy though, so thats something. Not enough to go after Karo or Johnbobb, but something nonetheless.

Spoiler for Number 6: Every movie in the top twelve had at least one person rank it at number 1except this one.

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GavsEvans123
Years ago, I did a Marvel movie ranking list of my own, although that one wasnt limited to the MCU. The Avengers ranked at number 2 back then, but this time, I wasnt feeling it as much. Theres nothing majorly wrong with the film, but I think Ive been spoiled by the later Avengers films (and even Civil War if you want to count that as an unofficial Avengers film) being bigger and more ambitious than this one. This film ends up looking rather basic by comparison, with a simple plot and little in the way of unexpected twists.

Tom Hiddlestons performance as Loki deserves praise, as he is quite a bit more unhinged than when we last saw him. As a result, there are some pretty creepy moments from him. He loses the depth and sympathetic qualities he had in Thor in favour of just being evil, but because of the performance, I actually dont mind it as a one-off. Im glad that this characterisation didnt stick, however. I remember there was speculation that Loki had been brainwashed, which was why he was acting differently, and Marvel confirmed that theory a year or two ago.

This is the point at which the Marvel formula that most of the following films would adopt (and most other blockbusters too, for that matter) is really nailed down: big action set-pieces, crowd-pleasing moments, and as much quippy dialogue and witty one-liners as will fit into the script. The problem with this is that sometimes, the films seem to actively avoid taking themselves seriously and having any kind of tension, stakes or drama. We already have a little bit of that here, with Thors bit about Loki being adopted. Sure, its a funny joke, but at the end of Thor, Loki was presumed dead and Thor was quite upset. Now Lokis back but hes gone mad, and is killing people by the dozens. Should Thor really be joking about finding out that his beloved brother is now a murderous psychopath? This issue will get worse in later films, but I do wonder sometimes if I want something different from these films than what the films want, and what many other people want from them. I guess it works better when youre watching with an audience.

TomNook
I was a bit worried after this film came out, because it felt like what the MCU was going to become, with constant overlapping characters in each film, which choked out the development for many of them. And that's kind of true, but the future films did it better. This one lacked any kind of character development and focused just on big action pieces. It was just loud noise with nothing.

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Sheep007
Hot take: I dont like Avengers Assemble as much as most other people (and I think this goes for a lot of the early MCU). I dont mind the interactions and dynamics between the characters, but in this movie most of them are still underdeveloped, so I pretty much only care about Tony the newer films adding more to them doesnt make these lifeless shells of characters any more interesting. The action is well directed and overall good, really good considering the heavy use of CGI and the time, but the colour scheme is bland, and the finale is just a lot of emotionless smashing and killing in various different ways, although its made more satisfying by the shot of the main Avengers and the Avengers theme playing beforehand. Its not even ten years old, but I guess the theme itself already sparks nostalgia. I dont care about the final act, until Tonys sacrifice, which is well done and well executed. I do like Mark Ruffalos Hulk, which is a solid step up from Warners, but Thor and Cap are still both bland as hell at this stage. The dynamic between them all is fine, and I feel like I was probably interested when firsAt least it brings back Loki, who is such a strong and satisfying villain (theres another villain, which I almost forgot until rewatching, but I dont even remember what he was called, so I think that should be enough to tell you my thoughts on them). Its funny enough, at least, and I have to give it a little credit for really kickstarting the MCU. Also, for introducing the Avengers theme.

StifledSilence
Big, fun, explodey team up movie with Hulks and Lokis, and more explodeys. Its certainly better than most the films leading up to it, and its a ton of fun to watch. It just suffers a little bit after seeing how much better the big team up movies got later on in the franchise.

Jesse Custer
The first big crossover event of the MCU had a great payoff with the final battle once all The Avengers finally stand together. But much of the movie is just waiting for them to get to that point, with numerous contrived battles between heroes along the way. And the movie never seems to run out of excuses for them to fight each other, from Hulk going on a mindless rampage to Hawkeye being brainwashed. Or just Thor, Iron Man, and Cap randomly deciding to fight each other for no good reason. To be fair, this is how virtually every comic book crossover between DC and Marvel ever played out with heroes unnecessarily fighting each other until they decide to team up and finally take on the bad guys. But it still feels like pointless filler to pad the movie until we get to The Avengers as a team. However, since the payoff is so strong, with such iconic moments as Im always angry, the movie leaves you with an overall positive impression.

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Raka Putra
Ah yes, the first Avengers movie. That circling shot of them is still very iconic. The New York battle was awesome, but I dunno if it can still live up to this day. But plot-wise, not having so many plot threads to read was an advantage in hindsight. It was still quite easy to follow. If I had to rewatch one Avengers movie after this project, I'd probably pick this one.

Illuminatusbubu
The movie that I think started an MCU craze. It is very innovative that they can combine each individual previous movies with their own storylines into a spectacular showcase.

HanOfTheNekos
This one fell a lot on rewatch. When I first saw it, I remember it being something really special, and that stuck with me for a bit. I think RDJ was the casting choice that made the MCU, but this film was the one that ensured it. Looking back now not AS good as I remember.

Joss Whedon was a great pick for this film. I thought that the pacing done was brilliantly - introducing every character one by one, bringing them together slowly. The only particularly weird part was Thor just showing up, but eh. I also was a little annoyed that Black Widow figured out Loki's plan to set loose the Hulk, then joined everyone in the yelling match.

As many people have said before, Whedon managed to take a team film and make every member feel like they had a strong contribution to the movie. Well, Hawkeye got dicked over a bit, but that's alright. He had his chance to run out of arrows.

Loki delivered, but it was interesting with him being the villain. An intentional choice, but having just watched Thor, it felt out of character for him to be so ruthless (perhaps there is a reason he acted that way). The sympathy he had earned had all but disappeared. Still, he was personally defeated so easily by the Hulk that it was rather lame.

Mark Ruffalo was a great recast. Fits the tone of the MCU a lot better than ED NORTON.

All of New York just got so fucked up. And the shawarma place still served. Dedication.

Eddv
Loki carries an otherwise middling and boring affair

Johnbobb
This is a good movie that was dampered for me just a bit by endless tumblr memes about it in 2012. Also, did we really need to have Loki as the main Avengers villain this soon after having him as a lead in Thor? The stakes just feel a little lower when the main villain of The Avengers is the same main villain Thor deals with solo over and over again.

Red13n
I may be giving The Avengers a bit more credit here than it deserves for successfully bringing together a bunch of movie franchises. To this point, I don't think anyone had ever played a long game like this. Comic book movies weren't things that maintained long term success. They were things that hooked us with a good origin story, gave us a second movie that left us hope it could still be good, sometimes were good, but left us questioning if it could continue for the third. And then the third movie would come out, we realized it stepped on all our hopes and dreams for the franchise, and left dissapointed. But Marvel making it to a 6th movie(5th?), a team up movie, giving us all the heroes we'd been introduced to in what felt like a culmination but was in fact just a small piece of what would grow to something much larger, it was pretty damn cool. Some downsides, Loki is left with little antics and forced to play a villain role with little room to shine. It was still a fun ride, though definitely surpassed by interactions these characters would have in the future.

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ZenOfThunder
I actually screamed "YEAH" @ "Hulk... Smash" in theaters. I was a different man back then.

MetalDK
The original team. Has aged a little bit, but still a must watch

Inviso
After spending four movies and one sequel setting up the characters, the first Avengers film manages to NAIL everything it was going for. For starters, bringing the team together really highlights how diverse their personalities are: Stark is a cocky jackass, Thor is an arrogant fish out of water, Captain America is a boy scout, Banner is a quirky weirdo, Widow is a stoic loner, and Nick Fury does not take shit from ANYONE. Naturally, these personalities clash since none of them really has the same end goal for their role in the Avengers, and it takes an attack where they live (so to speak) to bond the team and make them actually work together towards a common goal. And that end battle scene is just fun action from start to finish. Everyone gets to showcase their strengths, but the sheer volume of warriors facing the team evens the odds. Oh yeah, and for becoming a COMPLETE piece of shit, Loki gets his ass handed to him brilliantly by the Hulk in one of SEVERAL good comedic moments of the film. Its just really solid from start to finish.

PrinceKaro
This is the first big crossover movie that marvel did, and though it is not without problems it still holds up surprisingly well compared to the other early MCU films.
So Loki tries to take over Earth with the help of an alien race called the Shiitake, and in response the earth's mightiest heroes (plus some idiot with a bow and arrow) get together at last. Things are a little slow to start, but once we get into the action the strength of this movie and how its characters interact truly shows.
This film set the stage for what the MCU would become and pretty much became the model for its whole formula going forward. This was certainly well deserved.

ScepterOfLove
(No write-up.)

Snake5555555555
Lets face it: Avengers is not complex, its not complicated, its just what youve always wanted to see on the silver screen. And theres absolututely nothing wrong with that. This was a true spectacle, an unmatched theater viewing experience, proof the MCU worked even if all the pieces werent quite ready yet (Hawkeye & Black Widow being chief among them). Its character dynamics are perfect, you can feel the stakes, and hell, theres just a bunch of fun, edge of your seat character action moments that will just take your breath away. Unfortunately, I think the Chitauri are a bunch of throwaway visual vomit but thats really all I can complain about here. Its certainly not a perfect film but it is in concept; once you see the awesome shot of the Avengers standing proudly circled, shoulder-to-shoulder, you know the age of the superhero had officially reached its golden age.

Anagram
I havent watched this in a long, long time. I expect it wont hold up. Part of its strength is probably just that bringing together a bunch of heroes had never been done before, but it does have a lot of good spectacle moments.

Paratroopa1
I wasn't watching the MCU back when the first Avengers came out, so I had no idea what the big deal was, and I didn't go back and see it until after I had seen Infinity War. Amazingly, it still held up, and I saw why people were going nuts for it. I watched every MCU film in order between Infinity War and Endgame, and while the first few films are far from my favorites, it was really cool to have a movie (or two in Iron Man's case) to get acquainted with each of the main characters, and then seeing them all come together. It's kind of like Smash 64 vs Ultimate - yeah, Ultimate has the bigger and more awesome roster, but there's something special about that first crossover where you see all the main characters come together, you know? After a while you stop being able to appreciate seeing Mario fight Link. Here, though, I was able to get all excited about Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and Hulk teaming up. Unlike the slow and dull Age of Ultron, the first Avengers movie is really well-paced and fun throughout, an almost infinitely rewatchable movie because it just never allows itself to get boring for even a second. All of the other Phase One movies feel a little old and not quite up to speed with the more modern MCU movies, but The Avengers still holds up 100% in my opinion.

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NBIceman
This was obviously the turning point of the whole franchise. People had proven that they liked the solo movies well enough, to varying degrees, but we werent quite to the point yet where anyone really understood what exactly the MCU would be. Comic book nerds like me were excited, but there was still a lot of trepidation even in those circles about how (and whether) it would actually work to have a bunch of big names in the same movie like this. Enter Joss Whedon. The man can prompt eye rolls at times, deservedly so in some cases, but at the time, there was probably no one in Hollywood more adept at managing big casts of colorful characters in the way that he had to for Avengers to be successful. But he pulled it off in a big way. Picture-perfect first crossover movie. Every member of the team gets some shine, especially the main four, but perhaps more importantly, no one gets overshadowed at all. The final battle is so good with everyone just flitting in and out as needed, and people may kind of meme the circle shot these days, but Ill never forget the feeling of being in the theater when that first one happened and thinking Holy hell, this is really happening. And its actually good. Even now, its one of the funnier entries in the series, too. This was a proof-of-concept in a lot of ways that also still holds up as a ridiculously enjoyable watch, deserving of every bit of praise thats thrown its way for both purposes.

Whiskey Nick
(No write-up.)

BetrayedTangy
Narrowly missing out on my Top 5 is the first Avengers. It still astounds me what they were able to do here. The fact that so many companies tried to replicate and fail at it speaks volumes as to how good this one is. Sure the plot being really simple is a pretty big flaw, but that doesnt stop it from being such a fun movie. Really not much else to say, except the Im always angry line still hits super hard and is quite possibly the best moment in the franchise.

Corrik7
The first movie that brought it all together. The most satisfying group fight in the entire universe against an army at New York. Loki was an enjoyable villain. Ironman's sacrifice had weight, even if he survived. The one thing that stands out in looking back is how they did the scene where Loki breaks through into the Shield Hangar of the Tesseract is that he has literal bullets bouncing off his skin. This is something that doesn't age well with the rest of the series.

Mega Mana
First Scene That Comes to Mind: The long shot Battle of New York sequence

The movie that changed the film industry for years to come. Nick Fury showed up at the end of Iron Man and set the ball rolling, every further movie a new tease of something bigger while being their own standalone thing. A shared universe. The Avengers set a benchmark that both Warner Bros. with the DCEU and Universal with the Monster Universe tripped over themselves over and over trying to emulate and catch up to. It was a movie with the leads of four different movies, various ancillary characters (Black Widow, Hawkeye, Coulson, Fury, Loki) showing up in more prominent roles, a Hulk recast better than the original (the second recast after James Rhodes, and one of the only ones besides Fandral in The Dark World - nine more years until Endgame and I cannot count any more big recasts than two from the original 2008 movies), a television writer not known for the big screen much less a property this combustible, and a two-and-a-half hour runtime.

It's astounding how well it works. Not only does every character have a strong voice and role in the movie, but they're all dynamic. Cap, Tony, Bruce, and Thor all have different character types and different interactions, dialogues, and respects for each other. Black Widow & the other SHIELD agents are the glue keeping them from fractioning with Hawkeye's turn and Coulson's death as catalysts for a lot of motivation. We get four solo movie heroes on-screen and interacting with each other and it's absolutely seamless and informs the next near-decade of movie magic. Loki is at his best and most manipulative, far more of a schemer and tactician than he felt in Thor. Black Widow shines brightly in her intro, her interactions with Hulk and Hawkeye, and her interrogation of Loki.

The Battle of New York is still one of the most impressive superhero fights ever put to screen, deftly handling frenetic action and multiple locations and treating every hero smartly.

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Cybat
I know Joss Whedons cachet is a little diminished these days but, like Jon Favreau, its hard to overstate how much he contributed to the MCU. This movie was, as silly as this seems today, a pretty big risk, and the idea of balancing out so many leading roles in an ensemble movie in a way that both hardcore fans and casual moviegoers would appreciate was daunting. It fell to Whedon to make everything work, and he did an absolutely phenomenal job.
I can honestly say that I dont know if I will ever be as purely happy walking out of a movie theater as I was after watching this. Just about every named character gets at least one scene to do something badass and the banter between the characters is great. I had this as my favorite movie outright until the next two entries in the list came out.

MetalmindStats
Theres no bigger byword in pure popcorn cinema than the movie that confirmed the MCU was built to last. Kevin Feige & co. would eventually venture to more audacious places under the same basic framework, but for my money, none of them are quite as effective at distilling the crackerjack blockbusters fundamental appeal as the original Avengers.

Mr Crispy
With this project I'm expecting a lot of people to mark down the first Avengers movie points after Infinity War/Endgame not through any fault of its own but because it doesn't have the same scope or ambition as Infinity War/Endgame. But that's not really fair.

I think the first one probably did the best job of balancing the characters' interactions with one another, the friction arising from their different points of view and personalities as they begin to work together. Loki's better than your average Marvel villain. There's so many little moments or quips that land. I'm not sure many people would agree with me, but the final fight with the Chitauri is probably my favorite final battle between the four Avengers movie even though it's not as grand in scope since it's the most like what I'd expect the big epic battle in a superhero battle to be.

VengefulKaelee
The movie that took all the disparate parts of Phase 1 (a mish-mash of mediocre movies) and pulled it all together into something good enough that it basically codified most of the rest of the series. The mile-a-minute snarky deadpan quips, the overall story structure, the interplay between the different cast members, all of it was perfected here, and the result is a bloody entertaining movie to watch.

XIII Rocks
I didn't think this would ever be topped. The way the first four movies came together to set this up was really something special at the time, a real treat. It felt like a culmination and that no comic book movie would ever be a bigger deal - I didn't think it'd continue to grow and grow in the way it did.

Say what you want about Whedon NOW, but at the time getting him to direct this was a fantastic idea. They made absolutely the right decision there to get as much comedy from the movie as possible and to really ignite the easy chemistry between the team. I remember being so taken aback by it when I heard the news because it felt like a kind of left-field directorial choice but, as a huge fan of Firefly and particularly Serenity, I was really pleased with it and the quips really suited Iron Man especially, who is used well here and is one of the movie's highlights as a result. The movie sings every time he's on screen, particularly his scenes with Banner. Ruffalo does well though I do wonder in retrospect how Norton would have done. I mentioned it in the Hulk write-up but it was a real shame about that recasting because it made this Hulk seem completely separate from the Norton Hulk, even if they're meant to be the same character.

I also had concerns that Loki wouldn't be a big enough villain - like he was defeated by just one Avenger less than a year before this movie came out, so I wasn't sure I'd buy him as a threat and I thought they'd be better served going for somebody bigger, but it ended up working very well. It was an easy way to bring Thor into the mix and Hiddleston managed to be both menacing as well as having a clear chip on his shoulder. He also looked strong in the movie, being a step ahead of the Avengers for most of it, beating up Cap and Iron Man and using the phrase "mewling quim" because why not. His relationship with Thor, unique compared to the other Avengers, is also used well.

The "I'm always angry" scene and subsequent shot of the 6 of them together feels dwarfed by Endgame's Portals scene now for sure but it was a big rush at the time. The climactic fight against the Chitauri, with its signature tracking shot, and all 6 finally working together, more than lives up to expectation and is still one of the MCU's best sequences.

This is one of the most easily-watchable movies in the MCU, a smooth, well-made product and arguably its most significant as well.

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Lopen
This is the peak of the MCU formula. All the movies up to this point play into it (aside from Hulk), but none of them are particularly necessary viewing to enjoy it as the movie is pretty much completely self contained. All the characters are used well here and play into their established character in the previous films, and Loki is the best villain in the MCU by a fairly wide margin. He has the Marvel wit to him, but he is NOT treating anything like a joke, unlike Ultron.

The theme that these guys are a bunch of disjoint parts, and that the first arc of the film is Loki using their lack of cohesion to try and take them apart is perfect. It gives you a lot of fight scene fodder and makes every character feel relevant-- also establishes Hawkeye and Black Widow as characters without giving them origin movies which is cool

It's hard to explain just why I love this movie so much, but I guess it's just the simplicity of it all. This is before the cast got too big, everything got too self referential, and it is just pieced together and paced really well. I could watch this movie every month and enjoy it every time.

Maniac64
I saw this move 4 or 5 times in theaters. The most of any movie ever. Everytime I found out someone hadn't gone yet I suggested we go watch it. I loved it bringing together characters from the idfferent movies and the interactions between them were great. Loki was an excellent villain for it and the army was great fodder for them to show off against in the big battle. Coulson's death was tragic (though obviously the TV show has mitigated that considerably) and made for a great unifying moment for these very different heroes. Since it is a smaller cast that doesn't have to introduce many people more time is able to be spent on everyone compared to the later Avengers movies. This was what all of Phase 1 was building to and it was so worth it. The movie's quality is what secured the future of the MCU. I just love this movie, one of my all time favorites and one that I find infintely rewatchable, which is a big deal to me.

CoolCly
I have rewatched The Avengers probably 20+ times easily. Ive seen the Joss Whedon Directors Commentary alone around 5 times. Its one of my go to comfort shows that when Im stressed or in a bad mood, I just put it on and it always relaxes me.
I love everything about this movie. Every line is so purposeful and consistent with the character, both backwards to their origin movies, within the rest of this movie, and with the MCU going into the future.
An ant has no quarrel with a boot. - His first name is Agent. - Yeah, theres a lot of things Fury doesnt tell you. - Its an impressive cage. Not built, I think, for me. - That man is playing Galaga. - Save the rest for the turn, J. I love everything in this movie.
I love Tonys relationship with Banner he really sets him up to come out into the open with what he is and be part of the time, despite Banners reluctance to doing anything like that.
I love Cap and Tonys butting of heads, culminating in the Call it, Cap in NY. The scenes of Tony and Cap after the attack on the helicarrier, both Furys speech with the bloody cards and their further chat at the spot Coulson died, are really powerful.
I love that everybody has their shot at Loki throughout the movie. Cap in Germany, Tony at the tower, Widow in the interrogation, Hawkeye with the exploding arrow, Thor several times, Coulson with the gun when hes down and Hulk with the ragdoll.
There are a couple things in the writing that are done a bit too conveniently the reason the heroes fight eachother is a *bit* thin and the Chitauri all powering down after the mothership is nuked is real convenient. But ultimately, the plot is served well by these conveniences, so sometimes it just is what it is, and those arent really significant issues, just nitpicks that maybe could have been handled a bit better
This is a GREAT movie and I love it. Love it love it love it.

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7. Marvels The Avengers
Total Score: 258

Lopen - 1
Maniac64 1
CoolCly - 1
Cybat - 3
MetalmindStats 3
Mr Crispy 3
VengefulKaelee - 3
XIII Rocks 3
NBIceman - 4
Whiskey Nick 4
BetrayedTangy - 6
Corrik7 6
Mega Mana - 6
ZenOfThunder 6
MetalDK 7
Inviso 8
PrinceKaro - 8
ScepterOfLove 8
Snake5555555555 - 8
Anagram 9
Paratroopa1 - 9
Raka Putra - 9
Illuminatusbubu - 10
HanOfTheNekos - 11
Eddv - 12
Johnbobb 12
Red13n - 13
Sheep007 - 14
StifledSilence - 14
Jesse Custer 15
GavsEvans123 19
TomNook 20

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Sorozone posted...

Also the fact that you cant make the distinction that people are celebrating his death because of his political beliefs is sorely missing the point.

Guy was trash who happened to be a popular right wing mouth piece.

Find a person on the Left side of things who spewed the bile Rush did and I can 100 percent say these same user would be saying the same exact same things once they die.

To be fair, this is an impossible hypothetical, because no one on the left who spewed that level of bile and hate would ever pick up enough steam to become a national media figure with any sort of influence over half the population. At worst you'd have someone calling Republicans stupid, but that goes nowhere near the level of vitriol Rush Limbaugh and the conservative mediasphere espouse on a regular basis.

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Wait wait...

You seriously meant the NUMBER of votes, rather than the percentage? I mean, Tombolo is right. The election with the highest voter turnout in American history resulted in the higher raw number of votes from minority voters? Whodathunkit? Seriously though, Trump ran at about average with black voters compared to prior Republican candidates, and with Latinos, he actually underperformed in 2016 compared to the three prior Republican presidents, all of whom got a higher percentage in their election/re-election than Trump got in 2016. 2020, he improved, but he was still well below Reagan and Bush in their two elections each.

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Pokewars posted...

Explain how Trump got more minority votes than any Republican since Nixon. I've got time.

Well, I can only find information showing that Bush received the most Latino votes of any Republican candidate from Nixon through Trump, both times, and McCain outpaced Trump with Latinos in 2016 as well, which was with him against Barack Obama, rather than a far less palatable Hillary Clinton. I can't find statistics on the black vote over time.

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Pokewars posted...

More non-reading from people just entering. I am NOT defending Rush. I am pointing out that it doesn't matter which Conservative/right-wing personality it is, people would celebrate it regardless.... proven by what red posted. I have seen it before, I'll see it again. See you all next time when you come up with reasons for hating _______.

How can you be sure that that's on us for being psychotic, as opposed to the people we're celebrating being miserable human beings who made the world a tremendously worse place through their existence? I mean, Red is a bit overboard on Bush Jr., largely because the guy is no longer relevant and is no longer causing lasting damage (and unlike Trump, Bush didn't inspire a new wave a hatred and racism in this country...he actually tried to go the other route and bring minorities into the GOP), but he DID cause two wars--unnecessary wars--that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands. I would say not caring about Bush Jr.'s death would be appropriate.

However, a LOT of modern Republicans (not conservatives, because they're not conservatives so much as regressives) are extremist psychopaths who either are open terrorists that will never face punishment for their role in inciting terror, or enable terrorists, and that goes for politicians and pundits alike.

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Pokewars posted...

Yeah, doesn't sound psychotic at all. Yeesh. And you people think you're "morally correct."

Just for the record, should we never celebrate anyone's death in your world? When Osama Bin Laden was killed, is it wrong for America to cheer his demise? If so, where is the cutoff point for the level of pain inflicted on a large swath of people before it's in bad taste to celebrate someone no longer being able to inflict further damage?

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swordz9 posted...

No other pair would be effective because no other characters were really given the development or screen time in fairness. Up to that point the MCU was mostly Iron Man and Cap featuring glorified extras

Yeah. That's what I was saying. Up to the point Civil War came out, they didn't really have the depth of roster to handle a Civil War storyline without really forcing some aspects (Spider-Man/Ant-Man, pushing a Vision/Wanda relationship without any real build-up, introducing Black Panther). Sure, you wouldn't have Iron Man and Captain America later on due to contracts, but I'm sure you could find SOMETHING to work with. Doctor Strange vs. Spider-Man (Magic vs. Science). Guardians/Marvel/Thor vs. Hulk/Avengers (space vs. terrestrial). It could be done at a later date without needing to rely entirely on Iron-Man and Captain America. I dunno. Civil War's justification for its plot is just so flimsy to me.

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Ultimately, number 3 is the big reason I see, Cly. Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr.'s contracts probably meant they'd be signing off after the two Avengers movies, so Civil War (the last of the Captain America trilogy since Marvel burned all three Iron Man movies in their first seven films) was the last chance to really use them for a "brother versus brother" type storyline. I just wish they could have come up with a better justification, because the plot feels flimsy and makes it come across as just "we wanted to have the good guys fight one another somehow."

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Really, a lot of the problems stem back to wasting the Civil War plotline on this movie.

Look at the MCU timeline. In terms of heroes, here's who we have on-deck, going into Civil War:

Iron-Man
The Incredible Hulk (off-planet after AoU)
War Machine
Black Widow
Thor (off-planet after AoU)
Captain America
Hawkeye
Falcon
Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy (off-planet)
Wanda Maximoff
Vision
Ant-Man

War Machine is a background character to Iron Man. Likewise, Falcon is a background character to Captain America. Hawkeye has always been a background character among the more prominent heroes. Wanda and Vision were introduced as part of an already-bloated Age of Ultron, which didn't allow for them to get much characterization. Ant-Man has no real connection to the Avengers prior to this movie (aside from fighting Falcon in one scene of Ant-Man).

Essentially, you're calling your movie "Civil War", and the only relevant characters involved in the titular Civil War are Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow (who could be considered on the same level as Hawkeye, but she's a bit more prominent), and Bucky himself. There's such a limited pool to draw from that they had to introduce Black Panther (his involvement being the result of the film's inciting incident...which was completely unnecessary given that the events of AoU MORE than justify the Sokovian Accords...you know...what with the name and all) and Spider-Man (who literally comes out of NOWHERE and the movie doesn't even bother to tie into the plot in any meaningful way).

So, you have a limited pool of heroes to actually fight in your "Civil War", weakening one of the biggest reasons for pitching such a plotline (the airport scene is the ONE standout moment of the film, but can you imagine if you had that scene on the scale of Endgame's final battle, with massive armies of heroes?) Surely, the plot itself is interesting, right? Not so much. Tony feels guilty about his involvement in a lot of problems and worries that regulation is needed. Steve wants unfettered freedom. And ultimately, the war doesn't even come down to that, but rather fighting over whether Bucky is a murderer or not. It's really, really dumb, and it's a complete waste of the concept of having two groups of superheroes ideologically opposed to one another to the point of war.

You could easily have had the Bucky story from Civil War, where Cap believes in his friend, and he goes rogue (recruiting some lesser heroes to his cause, like Wanda, Falcon, Widow) to justify the division among the team when Cap's rebellion is labeled an enemy group. You still have that division for Infinity War, but you haven't burned the Civil War concept on something so minor and pointless. It'd be a perfect Phase 5 Avengers film, when the roster is more fleshed out and everything.

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https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/17/rush-limbaugh-dead-at-70-lung-cancer/

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I've been waiting to say this since Age of Ultron dropped, so here goes.

Hulk is my dead last ranking because it's literally the most boring film in the franchise. There's no wit and no charm. But then films 22-20 (Age of Ultron, Captain Marvel, Civil War) all feel soulless in that they come across less as Marvel movies, and more as filler stories, necessary to set up later events. Unlike every other origin movie, Captain Marvel feels so shoddily-written that it exists SOLELY to explain why Captain Marvel is so awesome and saves the day a couple times during Endgame. Civil War feels slapped together specifically to explain why the terrestrial Avengers would be split up come Infinity War (plus, it introduces Black Panther AND Spider-Man AND explains Ant-Man's house arrest). And Age of Ultron is the worst of the three because it feels like it exists SOLELY to set in motion the events of Civil War, which makes it filler twice removed. Hulk is bad, but those three are just disappointments for just how unnecessary they are (without quality writing to back them up.)

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OUTLIERS:

Eddv - 118
PrinceKaro - 98
Johnbobb - 85
BetrayedTangy - 78
Jesse Custer - 73
TomNook - 70
VengefulKaelee - 69
Paratroopa1 - 66
Inviso - 63
Lopen - 63
Mr Crispy - 63
ScepterOfLove - 61
Raka Putra - 58
Snake5555555555 - 57
GavsEvans123 - 56
StifledSilence - 55
Maniac64 - 53
MetalmindStats - 53
Corrik7 - 51
HanOfTheNekos - 51
Illuminatusbubu - 51
XIII Rocks - 50
Anagram - 46
Whiskey Nick - 46
Mega Mana - 45
Cybat - 44
Red13n - 43
NBIceman - 42
MetalDK - 39
CoolCly - 38
Sheep007 - 33
ZenOfThunder 22

That one really started to separate people. Sure, Zen and Eddvs maintain their positions, but the tight race for second at the bottom has shifted to give Sheep a sizable advantage, given how few films remain. Meanwhile, Karo opens up a HUGE gap over Johnbobb.

Spoiler for Number 7: Features Black Widow.

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Eddv
Melodramatic shit. The story it is "adapting" had a ton of problems but at least it was interesting. This was not.

PrinceKaro
So a part of a building is destroyed when our heroes are fighting a supervillain and suddenly everyone is like oh the humanity the avengers are out of control. Hey, remember that time they wrecked New York City fighting Loki? Or when they blew up a whole country fighting Ultron? But oh no NOW a line has been crossed, for fucks sake.
Anyway, Tony has an impromptu moral crisis and decides that the avengers should be the bitch of the UN and a lot of people don't like that and so everyone starts kicking each others asses. Hooray.
The comic arc that shares its name (and not much else) with the movie, had like, some serious shit go down to cause the world to turn against its costumed defenders. Here, it's just manufactured conflict with no teeth or repercussions other than palette swap iron man breaking his legs, but does anyone really give a shit about him?
This brings us to the villain, a forgettable dude who lost his loved ones in the fighting in Jakoffvia and now he's back for revenge. This Baron Xenu is portrayed as a super puppetmaster who manipulates the avengers into destroying themselves, but he doesn't really do anything other than frame Bucky which is not really rocket science. Also, this supposedly genius mastermind just leaves the dead body of a doctor he impersonated lying around in a bathtub in this hotel room registered to his real name (this is actually why he loses).
All of the fighting is actually caused by the earth's mightiest heroes behaving like small children who are ready to beat the shit out of each other at the slightest disagreement,
The question I keep asking myself while watching this movie is 'why?'
Why did we chop T'Challa's origin story out of his own movie and fuse it onto this one?
Why do we have Spider-Man just randomly show up with zero explanation other than 'I know this guy'?
Why is Ant-Man even involved here? He has no stake whatsoever in this fight because he is not an avenger and doesnt follow laws anyway.
Why do we need to indulge in this masturbatory fanservice for people who just want to see Marvel's heroes pummel each other?
Why did I waste two hours of my life watching this glorified advertisement for upcoming marvel movies?
Just....just.. why.

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TomNook
The 3rd Avengers movie, though called Captain America for some reason. This one is a lot of fun. There isn't much to say, but I do have to laugh at things like the airport fight, where they give characters who are clearly too powerful for the MAIN characters, nothing to do. Scarlet Witch and Vision could dominate every single person.

Mr Crispy
Heroes fighting each other is probably a more compelling concept than fighting some of the villains, since they have more history together and the audience is more familiar with them. But it's pretty forced here. I don't care for the plot with Bucky or the airport fight much. I liked the last fight in the bunker better, although I think the movie as a whole would have been better if it spent more time shoring up some of the shaky spots leading up to it or if the movie didn't force the 'civil war' concept so much so it would have been a more legitimate twist. Spiderman and Black Panther had decent enough introductions. Crossbones/Zemo being under utilized didn't bother me but I could understand being upset about. Why bring back Ross, but not connect him to the plot of trying to find the super soldier serum when that was his goal in the Incredible Hulk?

Red13n
This is...kind of a Captain America movie? Lets be honest, this is just an Avengers title with a loose plot around Bucky that most of the time takes a back seat. There is a decent argument to be made that this is more of an Iron Man movie than a Cap movie. Cap spends the movie rigid to his dumb belief he should answer to no one, while Tony actually wrestles with what he must do in a world that is mostly their creation. But the worst part of this movie is that we're forced to have a lot of characters pretty blatantly fall outside their own character for the sake of a big team battle on a hangar where inevitably no one will win. We're introduced to a few new heroes, there are some fun action sequences, but it just doesn't feel like a natural "civil war" so to speak. There's also a villain somewhere in there we are supposed to care about. No cares were had.

Raka Putra
It feels weird that this is a Captain America movie instead of an Avengers movie. Anyway, I was really excited for this movie back then, but unfortunately the 'civil war' angle was gone in the blink of an eye and we only got one ensemble fight out of it. Anyway, I like its concept more than the execution. It ended up a bit forgettable.

Maniac64
I don't get the love for this movie. Yeah the airport fight was cool but this movie just left me wanting. I felt like the plot was not strong enough to cause the division we saw, and the Winter Soldier/Iron Man stuff just didn't land for me. Yeah the three man fight was super well done but it didn't feel like it should have happened.

Inviso
Im not even entirely sure why this is a Captain America movie, given that its about fifty-fifty split between the feelings of Captain America and Iron Man. Its tough to rank this one, because its REALLY cool to see some of the action set pieces in this movie. After all, this is an opportunity to see the Avengers fighting each other without any sort of mind control to hamper their powers. The airport fight is a GREAT scene and gives the opportunity to see a bunch of characterization and witty dialogue (from Ant Man, Spider-Man, Iron Man, and even Falcon/Bucky). But the plot is just not great. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the commitment to the franchises internal timeline, but it just feels like a weird choice to create the civil war conflict in the way its created. The opening scene isnt necessary given the utter destruction of Sokovia providing enough of a catalyst for the Sokovia Accords. And if Im being honest? Captain America feels ONE HUNDRED percent in the wrong and his entire motivations seem to be putting his friend ahead of the rest of the world. Sure, hes rightbut he could easily have been wrong. Oh, and the introduction of Spider-Man AND Black Panther (and bringing Ant Man into the core group) feels like a weird choice and detracts from the focus of the movie. So ultimately, the action is top notch, and some of the twists are good (and hell, I appreciate the villains motivations), but its trying to do too much rather than do just a little REALLY well.

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