Lurker > KanzarisKelshen

Having finished it myself, I will say KP is maybe underselling how undercooked the central plot is. It's...lacking. I got the most thematically correct ending, the most 'meaningful' one and it did not spark any of the joy correctly answering 'What can change the nature of a man?' did. The side vignettes WERE very good, but if you're an 'endings matter' guy it's a skip. Keep that in mind.

Hbthebattle posted...

I think Team Red ultimately wins out over Team BLU here, they have the firepower to take the biggest threat off the board.

You may want to clarify this vote, as a heads up. Both sides are Team Red, since Heavy is from RED Team. (I'm assuming it's for team Red/Scorpion/Lara, but would like to confirm just in case)

greengravy294 posted...

Not much thoughts on the match right now but just food for thought on iconic shooter mcshooters

Lara vs Donut Drake who we got?

Lara in pure skills, probably. Drake has the better arsenal tho

On that note of ignoring what Medic has done, Medic can literally take someone who's been reduced to gibbets, create an energy field in their shape and have their scattered pieces reassemble themselves. That's the level of over the top TF2 works on. It is crazy. It's just how it is.

KamikazePotato posted...

I'm gonna call this video into question, because Valve didn't make it. It's a community fan video that got upgraded to 'official' status because why not, saves the company work. Maybe that's enough to make things canon, but eh. Heavy tanking a train is more over-the-top than anything I would have expected from the comics or Valve-produced videos.

I double-checked with our resident TF2 lore expert before posting it, just in case, and got the go-ahead. It's notably the only video to have ever received this distinction, far as I can tell, too. To be clear, I'm not arguing Heavy can tank a runaway train, because that's clearly the Ubercharge at play. What I propose is that Heavy is beefy enough to take the traincar falling on him after, since by that point Medic's stopped ubering him. I don't think that's beyond the pale considering Soldier (never considered as tough as Heavy) survives having his spine completely shattered in the Jungle Inferno video and is just fine like, a minute later or less.

Hbthebattle posted...

he still gets consistently put down with a bullet to the brain. If Lara can't do it, Blastoise, who in terms of pressure can shoot harder with a Hydro Pump, probably can.

Certainly, but that requires actually hitting him. It's why the defensive position matters so much. Blastoise's water shots can probably hit that hard, but Heavy can step into cover to protect himself from them. If this was a battle in a completely open plain it'd be a very different story.

On that note btw, re: 'Scorpion getting in on Heavy'...

https://youtu.be/6aLjwVVNq4s?t=596

Heavy is tough as nails. You don't stop a train and survive a train car falling on you (after the ubercharge is no longer maintained) casually enough to not show a single scratch that easily unless you're built like a brick shithouse. It's going to take a concerted effort to take him down, which means leaving only one person to handle Marina and Sylvando.

KamikazePotato posted...

I don't think she does, based on her current loadout. She has bows and guns, but not specifically sniper rifles, which is an important distinction.

She should have at least one rifle that can serve as such, as that's part of the options she has in the 2013 reboot series (consisting of Tomb Raider 2013, Rise of the Tomb Raider, and Shadow of the Tomb Raider). Both Rise and Shadow feature a Bolt-Action Rifle to go with the standard assault rifle options.

'Having time to sneak away' is all well and good, but this terrain doesn't really have good sneaking spots at all. I posted a video earlier of what the approach to Puerto Valor looks like. It's open plains with just a few sparse trees to hide behind. Good for cover, yes, good for sneaking, hell naw. That's really the issue here -- Sylvando and his friends don't have to abandon their comfy spot in the watchtowers leading into Puerto Valor at all, and can see Red's team coming before they get seen as a natural consequence of their altitude advantage and being in cover. A pokemon or two getting served up as suicide scouts to reveal that they're holed up is reasonable, but it doesn't take away from the fact the position is much harder to assault than it is to defend.

What Trdl said. I'm struggling to find it right now but Heavy has ridiculous marksmanship feats in the TF2 comics (maybe Kamek has the pages saved?). He's not an unskilled lug, he just doesn't need more than one excellent weapon to kick ass.

KamikazePotato posted...

What weapons does Lara have?

Bows, a shotgun, an assault rifle, a bolt action rifle and various pistols, plus melee knives and axes (but you really, really don't want to think about those. Lara has a billion showings of getting rocked in melee by randos, she's a pure markswoman). She's got standard, rope, fire, penetrating, explosive and poison arrows to work with. She's mostly midrange focused, with a few longer range options when the need arises for them.

Concur. Sylvando is not a weakling. Yes, supporting is something he's extremely adept at and likes to do (man wants to put smiles on people's faces after all), but unlike Red, he isn't a helpless commander. Lara is a threat who can serve as a force multiplier (mostly against Heavy I think -- the only thing she has to hurt Marina with are explosive arrows and it's entirely in her wheelhouse to grab them in mid air, give them a SHAKE SHAKE to make them somehow bigger, and send them back), but Sylvando can too, and also fulfill other roles. That flexibility is killer here, when what his team needs can vary a lot.

I don't think this is a linear match at all, courtesy of the high quality of the enemy team, but Sylvando can adapt to it consistently and won't fold if, say, Scorp turns towards him for a bit. He also has a surprising amount of play against the Pokemon due to having type-countering moves, like a fire attack to deal with Venasaur, an anti-dragon move to (possibly) cut Charizard down, whatever you want to classify That's Amore and Finger of Justice as...you get the idea. He truly has a tool for every situation.

I actually think Blastoise is like, the worst Pokemon Red can bring out (OK, Snorlax is terrible too, but more on this in a sec). Marina can just...lift him and toss him out of the fight. I know Pokedex weight figures are a joke, but he's what, 200 lb. or so? Even if you quintuple that figure, there's no shot that that's even remotely as heavy as the Beastector Combiner Marina has tossed around before. Can you imagine Red dodging a Blastoise tossed at him at high speeds? That sounds like a surefire way to get splatted. Marina kind of makes big slow dudes quake in their boots. Red needs to lead with his lightweights until she's taken care of or things will go real bad for him.

Mewtwo59 posted...

Does Espeon get Teleport in any of those spinoffs?

Far as I can tell the only spinoff Espeon has been in is Pokemon Unite, where it doesn't seem like it has Teleport. If I somehow missed it, I would like to be corrected.

Yeah, it's going to be a really awful time if they just try the direct approach because, well, here's the path to Puerto Valor in the actual game:

https://youtu.be/4-_0QbPtPT0?t=2350

The actual starting point is way, way far away from this, too, so zero chance Team Scorp gets there before Heavy's set up at a nice comfy position. The enemy team has zero reason to think there'll be an ambush there, with how long it'll take for them to get to the place and how much of a detour they might've embarked on before reaching it. Can't keep your guard up at all times while waiting for danger if danger never comes, right?

So first things first. You know how thunderwave was argued for paralysis? It just so happens Sylvando...has a cure for that in his skillset, Sobering Slap. So even if you buy Pikachu getting close enough to nail it, it's easily healable. It also handles sleep, charm and confusion, so what do you know? The team can handle that argued CC comfily! Sylvando also happens to have dispelling strikes to deal with things like Protect and attack buffs, too. This is why he, much like Hawkeye, makes any team better.

Team Sylvando's argument:

Ahh, can you smell that? Love is in the air! Or possibly victory. Regardless of which it might be, it's certainly something sweet - as sweet as Team Sylvando's plan to seize victory from its opponents.

So, first things first. Costa Valor is fairly open and easy to navigate, with the town of Puerto Valor situated to provide a perfect staging ground for the team. From its battlements, opponents can be seen coming from a mile away. This suits Team Sylvando just fine, because...they don't have to do anything! Merely get into position, scout out the opposition, and wait for them to get close enough to get pummelled. This is important, because it means that the first strike will set some brutal terms to the engagement. What does that first strike look like? Let's take a look.

There's only one real logical way into Puerto Valor, and that's through a bridge. You can see the terrain here:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/faqs/16/76716-146.jpg

This creates a perfect killzone for Heavy to shoot puny baby men from. It also means Sylvando and Marina only have to worry about a few obvious angles of attack, too. Heavy is equipped with the Tomislav, a minigun that boasts tremendous accuracy, perfect for sniping the opposition down from a comfortable long distance. Coupled with Sylvando's own debuffs and his haste and attack buffs, this will make the approach an absolute nightmare for Red's pokemon and Lara. Scorpion can bypass the killzone by teleporting in, and certainly that might let him deal with Heavy...if it wasn't for the team's secret ace. Ladies and gentlemen...meet Marina.

https://youtu.be/Ak09CUJWXl0?t=66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARdmsBcc1lo

Why yes, that IS a cute robot girl flinging around a megazord like so much garbage and flinging someone over the horizon (ignore the bit about not grabbing the lasers and rockets - she CAN do that, the first vid is a challenge run for style points. See the second for Marina catching a huge-ass laser beam and rockets like it's no big deal and flinging them back!). Marina is, by far, the most brawny mercenary in this match. If Scorp doesn't allocate his full focus to her, she will piledrive him straight through the ground, and no mistake. Teleporting in to disrupt Heavy might seem like a good idea...but it just means getting into Marina's strike zone. This underscores how easy the job of running defense is for Team Sylvando. The enemy team has to find answers to assaulting a chokepoint and fortified position while getting blasted with Heavy's unerring marksmanship (it's true! See the TF2 comics for more details), and it's not a fun or easy time. I'm looking over this myself and I'm not sure how they possibly win, frankly! They're quality fighters, but the intangibles...the intangibles are simply not there, my friends.

"But wait, Kan!", I hear you say. "Aren't you forgetting someone?". As a matter of fact, not exactly -- I was simply saving the best for last.

Sylvando is an expert showman. In his own game, he can play off anyone and anything, and function well in any teamcomp, and the same is true here. His mix of buffs speaks for itself, but did you know Sylvando also possesses a massive array of debuffs? Confusion, paralysis, sleep, charm, even fairly damaging poison...he can do it all, and best of all, he doesn't sacrifice offensive potency to do so, as they're addons to the baseline damage of his attacks. Couple that with his ability to drop persistent regenerative heals and also do burst healing, and he can fill any role his team requires of him, from up close OR from a distance. Thus, he makes for an ideal defender for Heavy as the enemy team tries to get close -- he can use his wind spells to throw them back, nerf them until they don't even know what they're aiming for, and, if anyone gets close enough, smack them silly with his whip and blade. This frees up Marina, once Scorpion has been dealt with or forced to retreat, to rush Lara and Red and dispose of them easily. His versatility allows his team to respond to any threat, and that is the key to victory here. Too many questions posed at Team Red...which they have no answers for.

Team Red's argument:

Scorpion is the tankiest merc in this match. It will take a concerted effort from Heavy and Marina to take him down. While hes fairly fast compared to the combatants here (probably outclassed by Pikachu), his teleport gives him an edge.

Heavy is really good. Hes easily the best sustained damage output in this match with his minigun over time, barring a Scorpion fatality or an upper damage Pokemon move. But hes not particularly known for his mobility. If hes focusing on something, say a very large Charizard breathing fire and causing a commotion with a fire blast, hes not going to be able to extremely quickly turn around and deal with a threat behind him.

https://makeagif.com/gif/evolution-of-scorpions-teleport-punch-1992-2020-I2IBZ3

Scorpion is uniquely able to take advantage of the minigun-wielding Heavy to get the jump on him - literally - by teleporting behind him.

Lara is best suited for stealthily engaging enemies. While she isnt going to blow anybody away with her durability in a sustained fight, shes certainly going to get hers to get an attack off. As a master of stealth, her most likely target is Sylvando as she will recognize that he is her easiest prey and he will be important to take down. Tomb Raider 2013 is filled with moments of Lara taking out enemies of Sylvandos calibur; most of which she handles while suffering from whatever other wound shes accumulated. Her competition bow, in particular, can be rigged with explosives and penetrating arrows to allow her to face off with Marina, even.

While Heavy is really good in this match, and an extraordinarily skilled gunner with his minigun, he will have a very difficult time protecting Sylvnado when stealth gunner Lara and teleporting Scorpion are able to break through.

Now, Marina is no slouch. Physically, she rivals Scorpion in pure strength and can easily grab and ragdoll any merc in this match that she can get her hands on. Her main problem in this match will be bridging the gap to get in close to any non-pokemon. Shes not necessarily sluggish, and has rocket boosts to kind of glide and catch up speed, but Scorpions reflexes and teleporting make him a very shifty target. Marinas go to defense when she sees a projectile isnt attempting to dodge or parry, but to catch the projectile in midair and throw it back at her foe. Which is a phenomenal feat in and of itself but is going to give her a really bad time when she tries to catch Scorpions kunai in mid air because he can manipulate the trajectory and take advantage of her.

Lastly, we have the tankiest mercenary in this match: Pokemon Trainer Red. Any of Reds Pokemon can provide a reasonable fight for Marina, but the culmination of 6 of them that Marina will have to mow down will be simply too much. Factor in Reds full restores to heal his pokemon at opportune times during the match, and you have a legitimate powerhouse mercenary on your hands.

Charizard:
Speaking of strong mercenaries that can ragdoll their opponents
https://makeagif.com/gif/pokemon-unite-1-ranked-charizard-in-the-world-guide-master-rank-9tT1Fh

Charizard is incredibly beef, can fly, and will mess with opponents by spewing fire everywhere. Smokescreen is a reasonable defensive move to enable Lara to stealth more easily and allow some extra time before Heavy has eyes on opponents.

Venasaur is probably the most useful pokemon in this match. In Pokemon Unite, Venasaur is a traditional bruiser type with an extremely long range and spammable solar beam attack that can hit multiple enemies. Venasaurs real usefulness will be his debuffs: leech seed wil easily turn the tide in any long lasting encounter. Sleep powder hitting Marina or Heavy will almost single handedly turn the tide of the match because it will easily enable a Scorpion fatality. Sweet scent will lower opposing evasion to reduce opposing merc reflexes. Veansaur just has a great kit to debuff enemies, heal himself, chip away at foes, and

Speaking of debuffs, Pikachu might actually be the fastest combatant here. With his natural mobility + quick attack dashing, he will fairly easily be able to close the gap and set up his best attack: another debuff. Both Marina and Heavy are both extremely susceptible to thunder wave. While Pikachu may not be in the match for a very long time (and to be clear, this isnt a wild Veridan Forest Pikachu, this is Reds Pikachu), a single Thunder Wave causing paralysis and massive slow debuff on a foe is just extra fuel. Just like in actual pokemon battles on Smogon, PIkachu inflicting a Thunder Wave on an enemy is just going to allow Scorpion to more easily engage, Lara to get a shot off with her scoped Commando rifle or Red to set up a sweeper with Charizard

Blastoise cleans up after debuffs are dropped. Between his Iron Defense in preparation and timely uses of Protect, he will be a nuisance to finally go down. Hes actually suspiciously mobile when hes surfing around on a torrent of water. He also has a cannon-mode build with Shell Smash where he becomes an insane damaging threat and still has protects and full restores for a little longevity.

Individually, the Reds Pokemon arent world beaters, but the culmination of having 6 of them that he can use strategically to debuff, whittle away, and set up a sweeper is going to be enough to overpower Marina.

Summary:
6 pokemon with various debuffs, ranged options, gap closers, stat buffs, healing is enough to overpower Marina.
Heavy is the best sustained damage DPS in this match but Scorpion teleports behind him and he has a bad time.
Lara as a stealth combat amidst the chaos of multiple Pokemon is a perfect cover to find and eliminate Sylvando and then assist elsewhere as an expert, brilliant marksman.
Red has full restores, will be protected by his Pokemon, has non-bottom tier mobility with his bike, and is against a team that doesnt really have a stealthy assassin to take advantage of his low durability.

Lara Croft, Scorpion and Pokemon Trainer Red have challenged Sylvando, Marina Liteyears and Heavy to a fight! Location of the fight: The Costa Valor - A large plains area next to a long coastline, as it appears during the partys first visit to the area. All enemies, items, NPCs, etc. have been removed. Access to the Salty Stallion or any adjacent area other than Puerto Valor itself is denied. Attackers begin at the entrance to Mount Pang Lai, while defenders begin in Puerto Valor.. Which side will win?

Guidelines
-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-Mercenaries are considered 'downed' when defeated, unable to be roused except through a revival technique. A revival technique cannot affect a mercenary whose physical body has been completely destroyed and will not relocate them away from danger (ex. falling off of the terrain, being impaled, falling in lava), unless it would naturally do so in its own universe.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Lara Croft is as she appears in the Tomb Raider (2013) reboot series, including side media. She has access to all of her weaponry, including bow variants, fully upgraded and enhanced, as well as all of her perks and a healthy supply of all crafting materials and ammunition.

Scorpion is as he appears in the Mortal Kombat series (before the Mortal Kombat 1 timeline reset), in his wraith form. He has access to all of his moves and variants thereof, and will gain strength from being in the Netherrealm if appropriate (but cannot teleport there from another locale). He may only use Fatalities and variants if the opportunity presents itself to do so. Babalities are not allowed.

Pokemon Trainer Red is as he appears in Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver. He has access to Pikachu, Blastoise, Charizard, Venasaur, Snorlax and Espeon, which have access to their evolution lines entire natural learnsets up to Gen 7 of Pokemon (other than instant death causing moves, including those like Destiny Bond and Perish Song, set damage moves, and trapping moves/abilities), as well as HM moves, Pokken movesets, and Pokemon Unite moves where applicable. If the Pokemon has been owned by Red in-game, they have access to any non-natural moves demonstrated in any of his battles. He also has access to his bike, Silph Scope, Itemfinder, Poke Flute, Super Rod, Helix Fossil, and four Full Restores. Reds Pokemon may act of their own volition if Red is not actively commanding them. Red may have one Pokemon out at a time, and is able to be harmed. Only Red and any active Pokemon he has out are required to be defeated.

~VS~

Sylvando is as he appears in Dragon Quest XI. He is equipped with the Shamshir of Light, El Stupendo, Uber Gringham Whip, Tiara Tremendisima, and Gladder Rags. He has access to all spells and character builder upgrades, though he cannot cause stun or instant death with any move.

Marina Liteyears is as she appears in Mischief Makers, with access to her full suite of capabilities. She may alter items by giving them a vigorous SHAKE SHAKE as usual.

Heavy is as he appears in Team Fortress 2, including all official comics and SFM animations. He is equipped with the Tomislav, Second Banana, and Gloves of Running Urgently. Taunt attacks will not necessarily instantly kill anyone.

Maniac64 posted...

Just for those who don't play the Warriors Orochi games, the villains in WO4 are gods. Including Zeus, Athena, Ares, Loki, and Odin.

So the powerscaling can get pretty crazy there. DW Cao Cao is definitely super human before you take the shadow clones and ice powers into account.

It's just the moves to be fair (and a lot of why you can fight and beat those guys is that some characters, like Lu Bu, get divine transformations), but yes, this does mean Cao Cao gets to do stuff like cast a nasty spirit bomb. It's a nice glowup!

Mewtwo59 posted...

How is Tron's range? They don't start that close together here, so if she can't stop Lucas from getting off his buffs, it's going to get bad for them, especially if he gets off a Shield Omega.

Depends on the weaponry. Her bazooka is relatively short range (it falls to the ground after a certain distance IIRC), her gatling and search cannon have longer range, and in the Search Cannon's case, some tracking. I wanna say maybe 20-30 yards for the bazooka and 50-60 for the other two sounds right?

Chaeix posted...

I think this hinges on how well Ryu can deal with Cao and Tron given Glory and Lucas are much better support. Bomberman has firepower but no healing and is kind of brittle

bomberman also doesnt have a stipulation keeping him from hurting his allies which makes it extremely hard for him to help without hindering

but bombermans bombs might also just light the entire field on fire in which case everyone but tron burns to death

Lighting the field on fire seems extremely possible (he does have napalm style bombs) but whether it'd stay on fire is way more questionable, given that Cao Cao's attacks are ice based and Ryu's hadokens cause gale forces, like so:

https://youtu.be/M_DoIuioqiE?t=147

https://youtu.be/4-vWfUg-gz4?t=110

If anything, freeezing the sunflower field might be more practical. Makes it harder to move, and turns it into a zoning fight Tron can possibly take advantage of.

Team Ryu's argument:

Ah, at last! A new challenger!

So let's get the obvious out of the way first: buffs. Between Glory and Lucas, we have a huge buff advantage. 40% extra damage via Offense Up. 40% extra defense via Defense Up. Both of those permanently, mind. Tons of healing, both regenerative and burst. Damage halving that stacks with the aforementioned defensive buff, and it bounces half the base damage that would've happened back to the attacker. Two, count em, two sources of revival. Armor shredding attacks, to neuter the Gustaff's beefiness. A major league haste buff for Glory to use upon herself. The enemy team isn't just fighting stronger opposition, they're fighting a group that has incredible grind game, and can push way past its own limits. A protracted battle is only going to get worse and worse for the enemy team as time goes on, as the damage they dish out doesn't stick, and the damage they take does.

And then there's Ryu. How's anyone going to deal with this beast of a man? SF5 and SF6 were a huge glowup for him. Having mastered the Power of Nothingness, he's closer to his badass teacher Gouken (capable of fighting Akuma on fairly even keel) than he is to the olden days when he just shouted bitcrushed 'HADOUKEN's and tried to zone. Once upon a time, succumbing to the Satsui no Hadou made bullets literally bounce off him. These days, he's surpassed that kind of strength, and gained new levels of power all their own. His hadokens split the flow of entire waterfalls for several seconds at a time, crush earth and stone, and his blows were strong enough to defeat Seth and M Bison. He's as good as good gets...and then cranked up due to those buffs. Odds are good he's going to absolutely rip the enemy team's frontline apart after being enabled, allowing Lucas to focus on support (and perhaps a nasty PK Love Omega when the time is right to seal the deal), and giving Glory a chance to dance from frontline to backline, shooting people down with her armour-piercing Ruger Super Warhawk or tearing them to bits with her razor arms after applying even more healing.

The strategy here is pretty simple: punch a hole through the enemy frontline, then wrap things up in a flash when Tron is gone. And with the sheer power differential on our side, there's no doubts we'll make this happen. These fools couldn't defeat Sheng Long, and so they don't stand a chance!

Team Bomberman's argument:

Hey everybody! It's been a while since we had a mercs match. I hope you enjoy! :)

So to start off, this terrain is a phenomenal locale for Bomberman to work with. The sunflower fields cover the ground pretty completely, making it easy for him to lay down traps for unprepared enemies to step on. If the fight goes long, times is on our side, because it's a question of when the enemy team will get blindsided by pre-prepared bombs, not when.

Besides that, Cao Cao and Tron are in their element too. Not only do they have a new minion they can command at will, the enemy team is ill-suited to fighting them. Freezing AoE is very useful against melee heavy opposition, and none of the enemies are prepared to deal with getting shot at by hi-tech machineguns or a bazooka, nor do they have the firepower to defeat Tron. All we have to do is bring the fight to the enemy team, then gradually perform a fighting retreat into the bomb fields we've laid down. Forced to pursue, Team Ryu won't have much chance of avoiding the explosions, which will open them up to getting sliced and diced by Cao Cao's shadow clones or frozen by him, and finished off by Tron's explosives. And if they ever get distracted, death can rain from above and ruin their day, like so:

https://youtu.be/EaCsMc5lAcQ?si=DXQalDGUf3umn0wX&t=1928

All in all, this battle shouldn't be too difficult. We've got the power and AoE advantage on our side. All we have to do is make good use of it to seal the deal!

Bomberman, Cao Cao and Tron Bonne have challenged Glory, Lucas and Ryu to a fight! Location of the fight: Sunflower Fields - A seemingly endless expanse of sunflowers overlooking a large cliff, as it appears in Chapter 6 of Mother 3. Falling off of the cliff is considered out of bounds. Only what is seen in Mother 3 can be accessed. Attackers begin at the cliff at the end of the chapter while defenders begin where Lucas wakes up. Which side will win?

Guidelines

-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-Mercenaries are considered 'downed' when defeated, unable to be roused except through a revival technique. A revival technique cannot affect a mercenary whose physical body has been completely destroyed and will not relocate them away from danger (ex. falling off of the terrain, being impaled, falling in lava), unless it would naturally do so in its own universe.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Cao Cao is as he appears in the Dynasty Warriors series, with any additional moves from the Warriors Orochi series. He is equipped with the Purgatory Blade, Divine Justice, and Eagle Wing. He starts with full musou and has completed all appropriate skill trees.

Tron Bonne is as she appears in The Misadventures of Tron Bonne, piloting the Gustaff, which is equipped with all its weapons, may swap between them freely, and may swap to alternative modes at will. She is accompanied by six Servbots, which she may command as she wishes and which will be immune to all damage (though they can be knocked out and knocked around). She has access to all of her Marvel vs Capcom series movesets, as well as all her moves from relevant fights in the Mega Man Legend series. She may not exit the Gustaff at any point in the match.

Bomberman is as he appears across the Bomberman series (save for Bomberman: Act Zero), with his maximum possible bomb count and firepower, as well as remote bomb detonation. He has access to his elemental bomb varieties from Bomberman: The Second Attack, save for Shadow bombs. He may swap to his Bomber Copter ability and Bomber Marine form at any time.

~VS~

Lucas is as he appears in Mother 3. He has access to all of his PSI, though PK Flash will only cause Crying, or Paralysis if the target is already crying. He is equipped with the Real Bat, Awesome Cloak, Red Hat, Awesome Ring, and Franklin Badge.

Ryu is as he appears in the Street Fighter series, with access to all of his moves from the Street Fighter series other than gameplay mechanics (though Minds Eye may still perfect parry). He starts the battle with full resources.

Glory is as she is seen in the endgame of Shadowrun: Dragonfall with access to both sides of her upgrade tree. She also has the healing abilities bestowed by the purified Heart of Feuerstelle. Her healing will not necessarily only heal someone's most recent wound, and her trauma kits and adrenal pump will not necessarily revive any units swiftly (or, potentially, at all).

Yo its from Teyon? 100% worth a buy even lf you don't care about Robocop. Don't trust reviews from outlets blindly here, they did spectacular work nailing the vibe of the license with Terminator. No reason they wouldn't be able to do it with Robocop too.

Emerald nailed it. Everyone plays everyone, end of season standings crowns the victor. Playoffs are reserved for international competitions where it's assumed the best of the best are already playing.

I played this game a while back before they fixed up the progression

The front half was a fucking disaster, gameplaywise. Absolute pure pain because of the incredibly bounded progression while also not giving you the fundamental tools to let you actually have fun with the game. I hear they fixed this later, which is good because the back half was far, far more fun to play. I'd call it like a 7.5 or 8/10 game? It commits some extremely standard Indie Game Sins (TM) but it wasn't too bad.

colliding posted...

They tricked me into paying full price for a game that is and will always be too hard for me

I beat the tutorial boss pretty easily actually but now I'm getting cooked by this one normal enemy on the operation wallclimber level

That's not a normal enemy and it will fuck anyone's shit up

The trick is to use Pulse Armor to cancel stagger when you're close to staggering. It makes that fight way more tenable

Waluigi1 posted...

Gonna hard disagree on XIII-2 story being better. I've never been so mad/disappointed in a game in my entire life after that ending.

What is bozoblin?

It's 100% sequelbait, but if taken as part of a trilogy it works out fine. Absolutely unconscionable in the moment for sure tho

Buy the other two regardless of how much you like this one, they are enormously superior in every way

musically, gameplaywise, storywise, whatever, all of it is better

Yeah Yuffie is overwhelmingly powerful compared to the OG cast. Elemental ninjutsus alone free up four fuckin materia slots, it's a nonsense amount of extra power, never mind her other mechanics

You mean Kyrie? Chadley I'm p sure is just a plot device char atm and if he gets some personality in Rebirth that's welcome. Kyrie isn't even new, she's been a part of the universe for yonks

The buffs are huge btw

H U G E

The Ransetsu-RF in particular is an absolute allstar now, and you could take it into PvP and mosh a lot of meta builds with it (I did that actually! 21 wins, 8 losses overall, really good results). The Etsujins are the other big winner, as they are now lethal stagger weapons if you got a good finisher in the pocket

The Ransetsu-AR is trash garbage and easily the worst weapon in the game now. The buffs were tiny and it needs way more help than it got. Everything else became significantly more usable and gained a letter grade in value, wherever you'd rank them at beforehands. Good patch!

shane15 posted...

I mean he's better than most of them but the point still stands he can't get the job done when it matters. Doesn't matter if you're beating teams 10-0 or crawling over the line with a 1-0 AET if you fall as soon as you face one of the favourites.

It's football. Not winning the WC doesn't mean you're bad. England is a second (sometimes third) tier team. Any time they make quarters the job was done successfully, and even Ro16 can be a valid and viable result depending on who they run into.

No. It absolutely ravaged the board. Another issue (far from the only issue) is we've never had multiple in the same contest. If there were multiple forces of that level of strength colliding, that might be fun to watch (once or twice - I wouldn't want it to be an every contest thing) for the insanity of it. Of course if you gave me a choice between 2+ huge rallies or 0 huge rallies, I'm picking 0 huge rallies. But 2+ huge but roughly equal rallies is better than just having 1.

Didn't we get precisely this with Melee vs Undertale or am I tripping

I could've sworn Melee had a major rally too, it's just peopl care way more about Undertale

I straight-up don't believe Ugly Betty and Rick and Morty can be more popular than the Simpsons, so I don't know the exact metric they're using.

Global statistics? Ugly Better was massive outside of USA. Granted, so were The Simpsons, though

I did Chained Echoes on maximum difficulty and its early game was absolutely fucking awful, tremendously horrendous

The game only even begins to function once you have Glenn's 'cool the gauge down' skill. It's not a real game beforehand. That and Breaks. It's fun after but I would not call it a sterling example of turnbased gameplay tbqh, not with that level of shitty difficulty curving.

TomNook7 posted...

Lmao

Anyone beat Balteus yet? I was doing fine getting through the game until he showed up

Hi

Use the blade, never stop firing missiles, whatever mainhand is fine

Balteus is an APM check. If you don't press your buttons and make sure to keep pressing them constantly, you're done. If you do he's not that bad.

Only ac6 review that matters right here: From is wasted on soulslikes. This game is beautiful to look at, a joy to control, a thrill to get good at, and is a perfect sublimation of what Armored Core is meant to be in all the ways AC5 wasn't

Also the chapter 1 final boss has hella hands guddamn

squexa posted...

I legitimately don't get this gatekeeping. I really don't have that much time for gaming these days and there's only so many games I can play. I also don't consume much "game media" and know the personal tastes of every random gaming influencers or whatever. I already have a massive backlog so I'm going to be pickier for games that are outside my comfort zone. I don't like CRPGs at all so I don't know why I'd spend the same amount of effort checking out all the random CRPGs with 50s on metacritic as BG3.

If you have a massive backlog you should be clearing it out instead of buying more games, IMOIMOIMO

It's a better formula than buying for the sake of buying

xenosaga posted...

What are some good fighting games to watch that don't usually end up with the same few teams in the top X?

Does not exist for team style games. People just don't get that you need basic anchors or leads because you're learning three characters

Closest thing might be BBTag? But who cares about BBTag lmao

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Holy shit this Chris Redfield is completely dominating in MvC3 right now. God damn.

Wait until it runs into real characters

Chris is completely destroyed by anyone who has actual zoning. Morrigan is obvious, but VJ too, deadpool, whatever

It's super funny cause the entire reason Chris is shit is 'none of his guns fire horizontal in midair'

that's literally all he lacks and it's backbreaking

Oh! Ok that's a bit different then. Absolutely Xenogears>FF8 as my top 2 then. Imagine xenogears disc 2 as like, an actually finished product, it'd be wild. Same for ff8 with a polish pass around the orphanage/gf memory loss plot points.

Would want ff8 or xenogears and voted neither because the OP clarified that this is more a 'the same game by and large' type of remake than an ff7r type total overhaul. I love both games but the things they need to shine brightest are super out of scope for what the topic defines this type of remake as. As such, voted SotN, which could be super sick with some expansions and rebalancings.

Man I'm so glad this show is actually good. I had no faith but I was like 'Twisted Metal would be SO EASY to make fun, plssssss'

Turns out the writers got that! And they cared! And it WORKED! Crazy concept!!!

Dedede is an actually good king, so him easily

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Man, I would start a fight and they would just die immediately. I had to max out their defense and health stats before they'd even be alive long enough to do anything. That was on normal mode.

Defense and HP aren't what matters, it's leading off immediately with CC. The CCing powers in ME1 are absolutely gobsmackingly broken. Unless one of the squadmates you're using is Wrex defenses are irrelevant compared to using crowd control.

(What you play can also affect this, though. I remember in my soldier run my squaddies didn't die except in super pitched firefights because I was drawing much of the aggro. Something like infiltrator will have to be way more aggressive to compensate for not being able to take any damage for the team)

FoolFantastic posted...

Why would you turn that into an acronym

Because it's a chore to type and it's fairly omnipresent in bad USian media. It's kind of always been there but it started growing when 24 hit it big and hasn't really stopped being a thing since. It's a specific conceit that appears enough that it's quicker to acronym it than type it twentyfive times while dissecting a piece of media.