Current Events > Solid Snake is in a smash bros game

(+) Yeah! (+)

really makes ya think
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sucks that they got rid of him in Smash 4, and instead, had a bunch of shitty FE characters
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boxington posted...

sucks that they got rid of him in Smash 4, and instead, had a bunch of shitty FE characters

I kept hoping for Big Boss DLC :/
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boxington posted...

sucks that they got rid of him in Smash 4, and instead, had a bunch of shitty FE characters

For real but the roster is still dope
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I guess that I have less issue with the FE characters, and more with how the roster was dominated by sword users

mcpwnia posted...

I kept hoping for Big Boss DLC :/

for real.
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If someone showed me this as their predicted roster when Smash 4 was announced I would call them crazy


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KlRBEH posted...

If someone showed me this as their predicted roster when Smash 4 was announced I would call them crazy

What a roster
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Snake was in a Smash clone with Bomberman and Transformers long before that.
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boxington posted...

I guess that I have less issue with the FE characters, and more with how the roster was dominated by sword users

6/10 were FE characters tho.

And Shulk can barely be considered one as his was a laser blade thing.

Link and Cloud are literally fucking Link and Cloud.
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Marth and Ike deserve their spots

Lucina and Robin less so

Corrin not at all
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I mean wasn't Twin Snakes released on GameCube, effectively making him a Nintendo character?

People hoped he or BB would be in Sm4sh due to MGS3D
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Ic3Bullet posted...

I mean wasn't Twin Snakes released on GameCube, effectively making him a Nintendo character?

You forgot the first Nes port that got an exclusive sequel?
And the exclusive Gameboy Color title?
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Marth/Ike/Robin definitely should have been in

Lucina and Roy probably less but both are pretty cool clones so I don't mind them

Corrin is a cool character but shouldn't have got in honestly
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Doe posted...

Marth and Ike deserve their spots

Lucina and Robin less so

Corrin not at all

Lucina AND Robin didn't both need to be in.

Especially if Our Boy was in the works.
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And he's never going to come back. Particularly if Sakurai doesn't return (which I think we can all say needs to happen at this point, everyone but the fanboys anyway)

cuttin_in_farm posted...

boxington posted...

I guess that I have less issue with the FE characters, and more with how the roster was dominated by sword users

6/10 were FE characters tho.

And Shulk can barely be considered one as his was a laser blade thing.

Link and Cloud are literally fucking Link and Cloud.

still lame, IMO.

Nintendo had a huge pool to pull from, but they went with characters that felt generic.

Snake and Ice Climbers played differently, but they ended up being cut.

I know that for the latter, it was because of issues with the 3DS version, but still, their absence was felt.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

Particularly if Sakurai doesn't return (which I think we can all say needs to happen at this point, everyone but the fanboys anyway)

Why is that, please tell me
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People seem to think that if Smash changes directors then it will become more competitive or something
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KlRBEH posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

Particularly if Sakurai doesn't return (which I think we can all say needs to happen at this point, everyone but the fanboys anyway)

Why is that, please tell me

Game sucks and stuff

wah_wah_wah posted...

KlRBEH posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

Particularly if Sakurai doesn't return (which I think we can all say needs to happen at this point, everyone but the fanboys anyway)

Why is that, please tell me

Game sucks and stuff

Oh please
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Doe posted...

People seem to think that if Smash changes directors then it will become more competitive or something

Even if it still plays like every character has the mobility and steering of an Iowa-class battleship, it'll be more interesting to see what someone else does with it at this point. Also Sakurai was once a designer of games other than Smash Bros, I'd like to see him get back to that.

Brawl is low-key more fun than Sm4sh
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Doe posted...

Brawl is low-key more fun than Sm4sh

I absolutely agree with that. It took more of a risk than Smash 4 did too. Even if it didn't work out.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Doe posted...

Marth and Ike deserve their spots

Lucina and Robin less so

Corrin not at all

Lucina AND Robin didn't both need to be in.

Especially if Our Boy was in the works.

Agreed. Either Lucina OR Roy would have been fine, but not both. We didn't need 3 Marths.

In terms of character choices, Corrin wasn't a great one. I figured if they gave us anyone from Fates, it would be Azura since she's a prominent character that isn't "another fucking sword user" like some people complained about. But Corrin turned out to be so fun to use that, in the end, I was okay with the inclusion.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

Even if it still plays like every character has the mobility and steering of an Iowa-class battleship

Lol what does that even mean? Smash 4 is one of the smoothest feeling games out there
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Doe posted...

Brawl is low-key more fun than Sm4sh

I agree. Played Sm4sh for a day and turned it in. Nothing interesting to do unless you had friends over; even the unlockables were total gimmes.
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KlRBEH posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

Even if it still plays like every character has the mobility and steering of an Iowa-class battleship

Lol what does that even mean? Smash 4 is one of the smoothest feeling games out there

Smooth. That's also a word I have heard used to describe every alcohol that comes in a plastic jug.

wah_wah_wah posted...

KlRBEH posted...

wah_wah_wah posted...

Even if it still plays like every character has the mobility and steering of an Iowa-class battleship

Lol what does that even mean? Smash 4 is one of the smoothest feeling games out there

Smooth. That's also a word I have heard used to describe every alcohol that comes in a plastic jug.

You can't even buffer inputs in Melee, and Brawl is pretty much the same as Smash 4 except less refined.

If we're talking about the actual feel of the games, Smash 4 wins pretty easily and its not much of an argument.
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Doe posted...

Brawl is low-key more fun than Sm4sh

lol, brawl is trash
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I can't stand that they have so many shitty Mario and Pokemon Goddamn characters.
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Lucina should've been an alternate costume with voice set change.
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KlRBEH posted...

You can't even buffer inputs in Melee, and Brawl is pretty much the same as Smash 4 except less refined.

With Brawl at least I'll give it credit for trying to bridge the skill gap traditionally brought on by fighting games. It totally failed in doing that, but it was a bold and worthy attempt. Even the super extensive single player mode that attempted to tell a story was pretty ambitious, even if it ended up boring. Whereas 4 is simply a refinement of failure that doesn't try to do anything new or interesting. Which is why discussions of 4 always come down to OMFG HUGE ROSTER. But quantity is not quality and never will be. And all the modes and features of 4 just suck. Smash Tour is somehow worse than Mario Party. It is like Mario Party for those who sniff glue.

Maybe one day, they will give Solid Snake guns
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wah_wah_wah posted...

KlRBEH posted...

You can't even buffer inputs in Melee, and Brawl is pretty much the same as Smash 4 except less refined.

With Brawl at least I'll give it credit for trying to bridge the skill gap traditionally brought on by fighting games. It totally failed in doing that, but it was a bold and worthy attempt. Even the super extensive single player mode that attempted to tell a story was pretty ambitious, even if it ended up boring. Whereas 4 is simply a refinement of failure that doesn't try to do anything new or interesting. Which is why discussions of 4 always come down to OMFG HUGE ROSTER. But quantity is not quality and never will be. And all the modes and features of 4 just suck. Smash Tour is somehow worse than Mario Party. It is like Mario Party for those who sniff glue.

See it looks like we're talking about 2 different things, you're talking about single player modes and I'm talking about gameplay, and this is coming from someone who has been playing Smash 4 competitively for over 2 years so we're coming from 2 different places.

I got a lot more out of Smash 4 because I've been going to tournaments for my local Smash 4 scene in Chicago since early 2015. Brawl does have the best single player modes of course, but the improved online and For Glory alone has made me invest WAY more time into Smash 4 over Brawl, because Brawl's online sucked. Even though the single player mode stuff is great in Brawl I only played SSE once and never really touched it again. Meanwhile I have 500+ hours of online play in Smash 4 which is mainly Online vs Friends and For Glory.

But it would be great if Smash 5 brings back a single player story mode like Brawl or atleast like Melee and more things to do in single player. Because once I was done collecting all of the custom moves for all the characters I didn't really play single player modes in Smash 4 much at all anymore. And you're also forgetting Smash Run on the 3DS version, thats probably one of the best modes they've ever introduced in the Smash Bros series. I definitely want to see them add that in a new installment and expand upon it more.
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KlRBEH posted...

See it looks like we're talking about 2 different things, you're talking about single player modes and I'm talking about gameplay, and this is coming from someone who has been playing Smash 4 competitively for over 2 years so we're coming from 2 different places.

I do refer to gameplay. That was what I meant by saying that Sakurai started with the design goal of trying to minimize the skill gap that often happens with fighting games as they get more and more installments. I decided to expand into criticizing the single player modes, where Brawl is also considerably more ambitious than Smash 4.

KlRBEH posted...

But it would be great if Smash 5 brings back a single player story mode like Brawl or atleast like Melee and more things to do in single player. Because once I was done collecting all of the custom moves for all the characters I didn't really play single player modes in Smash 4 much at all anymore. And you're also forgetting Smash Run on the 3DS version, thats probably one of the best modes they've ever introduced in the Smash Bros series. I definitely want to see them add that in a new installment and expand upon it more.

I honestly would rather whoever is in charge not focus on single player at all. I only credit Brawl for going big on single player because even though it failed to satisfy, it was a unique direction to take the series.

I think that's one part of the rot of Smash as of late is how they focus so much on cramming the game with superfluous content that they don't focus on the fundamental gameplay and ignore how it is starting to get flabby. There's a boat load of characters but not many of them are very interesting to play, and many desperately need to be revamped (DK and Zelda, I'm looking at you). But I think Sakurai intentionally puts all this shit in to distract from the core starting to get fuzz.

And I don't even get the hostility against those who want Smash to be a competitive and fast-pace game. Smash Bros is a fighting game - that is inherently competitive in concept. The idea is to face off against your opponent and beat the shit out of him until he's dead. It's not Minecraft. It SHOULD be competitive. Isn't that why everyone bitches about tripping, it robs the game of genuine competition?

wah_wah_wah posted...

Doe posted...

People seem to think that if Smash changes directors then it will become more competitive or something

Even if it still plays like every character has the mobility and steering of an Iowa-class battleship, it'll be more interesting to see what someone else does with it at this point. Also Sakurai was once a designer of games other than Smash Bros, I'd like to see him get back to that.

Kid Icarus wasn't that long ago.
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boxington posted...

sucks that they got rid of him in Smash 4, and instead, had a bunch of shitty FE characters

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wah_wah_wah posted...

I do refer to gameplay. That was what I meant by saying that Sakurai started with the design goal of trying to minimize the skill gap that often happens with fighting games as they get more and more installments. I decided to expand into criticizing the single player modes, where Brawl is also considerably more ambitious than Smash 4.

The skill gap in Smash 4 is much larger than the skill gap in Brawl, so I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

wah_wah_wah posted...

There's a boat load of characters but not many of them are very interesting to play, and many desperately need to be revamped (DK and Zelda, I'm looking at you). But I think Sakurai intentionally puts all this shit in to distract from the core starting to get fuzz.

Yeah I'm sorry at this point I'm questioning how much you even know about Smash 4. There's a ton of different playstyles between characters especially on a high level, and there aren't many characters that feel the same other than clones. And even still they have done a good job through each game to make those "clone" characters play more and more different. For example Roy and Marth play almost entirely differently.

Donkey Kong is also a high tier character, he doesn't need to be revamped.

wah_wah_wah posted...

And I don't even get the hostility against those who want Smash to be a competitive and fast-pace game. Smash Bros is a fighting game - that is inherently competitive in concept. The idea is to face off against your opponent and beat the shit out of him until he's dead. It's not Minecraft. It SHOULD be competitive. Isn't that why everyone bitches about tripping, it robs the game of genuine competition?

You don't see any hostility from me on that regard, I think Smash Bros should be more competitive and Smash 4 did a good job of putting the series in the direction for the games to be more competitive without the help of exploits and glitches like there is in competitive Melee. More still needs to be done but its pretty clear that they're going in that direction. People that say this always seem to ignore the fact that Smash 4 was regularly getting character patches and new characters for a year and a half after the game was released. Sakurai has also shown up at this invitational tournament in Japan the past 2 years where some of the best players in the world have played so they're obviously paying attention.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEDt73hPNdU

Classic.
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Doe posted...

Marth and Ike deserve their spots

Lucina and Robin less so

Corrin not at all

Corrin at least has a moveset of his/her own.
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Corrin is a playable ad
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Marth
Red Marth
Girl Marth

Anyway, I always felt like Brawl Snake was supposed to be an amalgamation of Solid and Naked. I mean most of his outfits were camo-like and he says "tasty" when he eats stuff. Plus the RPG-7 (forward smash) was a Naked weapon until 4 released like a month or so later.
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DevsBro posted...

Marth
Our Boy
Girl Marth

Anyway, I always felt like Brawl Snake was supposed to be an amalgamation of Solid and Naked. I mean most of his outfits were camo-like and he says "tasty" when he eats stuff. Plus the RPG-7 (forward smash) was a Naked weapon until 4 released like a month or so later.

His Side B can occasionally shoot the c3 butterfly from Snake Eater
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KlRBEH posted...

The skill gap in Smash 4 is much larger than the skill gap in Brawl, so I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

Because you're not understanding that I'm not saying that Brawl is better than Smash 4 because the skill gap is bigger. I'm saying it is better because it made mistakes that were more justifiable than the mistakes Smash 4 made. Honestly maybe it might have been possible to have a competitive fighting game that anyone could pick up and play and win. Sakurai tried and failed with Brawl. He basically does the same thing with Smash 4, and I think he fails even more because he clearly didn't learn the lesson of Brawl.

KlRBEH posted...

Donkey Kong is also a high tier character, he doesn't need to be revamped.

His moveset doesn't reflect what he does in his games at all. He's just a dumb ape that punches shit. There's nothing stopping him from both being a good character to play and also having more of a personality fit to his series.

KlRBEH posted...

Sakurai has also shown up at this invitational tournament in Japan the past 2 years where some of the best players in the world have played so they're obviously paying attention.

I think we're just better off getting rid of him. I only really liked him for the character choices he made and even those are getting shitty, Corrin never should have been a character, let alone one that he expected people to pay separately for.

wah_wah_wah posted...

Because you're not understanding that I'm not saying that Brawl is better than Smash 4 because the skill gap is bigger. I'm saying it is better because it made mistakes that were more justifiable than the mistakes Smash 4 made. Honestly maybe it might have been possible to have a competitive fighting game that anyone could pick up and play and win. Sakurai tried and failed with Brawl. He basically does the same thing with Smash 4, and I think he fails even more because he clearly didn't learn the lesson of Brawl.

But you're wrong, Smash 4 is a competitive fighting game that anyone could pick up and play. Its a casual game in free for alls that you can play with friends and it has also appeared at EVO for 3 years straight with one of the biggest scenes in the FGC only second to Street Fighter which has been the heart of the FGC for WAY longer. Its not as competitive as other fighting games obviously but its without a doubt the best mix of casual and competitive that any fighting game has done in the history of the genre.

wah_wah_wah posted...

His moveset doesn't reflect what he does in his games at all. He's just a dumb ape that punches shit. There's nothing stopping him from both being a good character to play and also having more of a personality fit to his series.

I'm sorry but this is a silly complaint, what are you even complaining about here? Donkey Kong does reflect his games, DK has all of his iconic moves from his games and his cargo throw is an essential part of his moveset. It sounds more like to me that you don't know much about Donkey Kong's moveset in Smash 4.

wah_wah_wah posted...

I think we're just better off getting rid of him. I only really liked him for the character choices he made and even those are getting shitty, Corrin never should have been a character, let alone one that he expected people to pay separately for.

Smash Bros would lose a hell of a lot if Sakurai didn't work on the team. It honestly pisses me off when people talk shit about Sakurai without knowing how much time he put into all of these games. Smash 4 added 18 new characters and thats not even mentioning the fact that a large majority of the existing cast was reworked in Smash 4 which made them play way differently, like Mario, Bowser, Mewtwo which damn near made them new characters in most people's eyes competitively.

This dude literally has calcific tendinitis from working so hard on these games and still completed it without any complaints, Smash 4 was basically worked on from 2011 from 2014 and it was still being supported frequently until March 2016 with 7 DLC characters, 9 DLC Stages, and a new Online Tournament mode being released in those 2 years and multiple balance patches in between that time as well. And all of this isn't even mentioning the fact that he was working on 2 games at the same time, the 3DS and Wii U version and managed to get them both released with a reasonable amount of time between them.

I'm sorry but get the hell out of here if you think Sakurai isn't one of the hardest working devs in the business, just because you have some silly preconceived notion about this man for no reason at all doesn't mean he shouldn't be working on Smash Bros games anymore, because hes doing an amazing job with the series.
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KlRBEH posted...

But you're wrong, Smash 4 is a competitive fighting game that anyone could pick up and play. Its a casual game in free for alls that you can play with friends and it has also appeared at EVO for 3 years straight with one of the biggest scenes in the FGC only second to Street Fighter which has been the heart of the FGC for WAY longer. Its not as competitive as other fighting games obviously but its without a doubt the best mix of casual and competitive that any fighting game has done in the history of the genre.

The bigliness of its scene doesn't necessarily mean it is a great competitive fighting game. Brawl had a lot of competitive play too. Smash 4 lucked out in that the ceiling of Melee is finally being hit after over a decade of continuous play. I don't even think it is necessary to mix in casualness, I don't even understand what that term means other than "introduce slow and tedious gameplay mechanics"

KlRBEH posted...

Smash Bros would lose a hell of a lot if Sakurai didn't work on the team. It honestly pisses me off when people talk s*** about Sakurai without knowing how much time he put into all of these games.

I know how much he puts into it, he constantly whines about it. The way you spell out how much Sakurai works, yeah I agree it is a completely joyless task he does for Smash Bros now. That does reflect in how sterile the whole Smash 4 experience is. It is not a work of passion for him anymore.

I do respect Sakurai as a game designer and I think he has a lot to offer, but I don't think he has much to offer creatively for Smash Bros anymore. The tank is on E. I would prefer to see him make other games he has in mind (which he founded a studio to do, not to do more Smash sequels). And I am guessing it is very likely this is what we're going to see now that his pal is no longer running the show at Nintendo.