Board 8 > One removed from The Last Jedi-- The movie is still fucking awesome (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

OliviaTremor posted...

CasanovaZelos posted...

Now, I do enjoy dull movies. I have watched several films that belong to the 'Slow Cinema' movement. Not that I think The Last Jedi belongs anywhere near there, but you know...

Anyway, my reasons for loving The Last Jedi fall largely into the technical and stylistic aspects of the film. I guess I find the plot critiques so odd because I've never viewed Star Wars as a series where I cared about the actual details of how things worked? Like, to me, watching a Star Wars movie for the plot makes about as much sense as listening to Daft Punk for the lyrics.

I agree with everything in this post. The Last Jedi had some absolutely fantastic set pieces and gorgeous cinematography. It's a stunningly beautiful movie in my opinion. Maybe you don't care for the light speed suicide, but I find it hard to believe that someone didn't gasp in amazement at the way the scene was shot, the brilliant sound cut, and lingering on the destruction. It's moments like that that make Star Wars for me, personally, and when a Star Wars movie does something well (or even poorly) it is forever ingrained in your memory.

I think the problem with that scene is how it completely shits on the established rules of how hyperspace functions.

Then again, they already did that with the "let's just jump in THROUGH the planetary shield" bullshit in TFA, so I guess the science in science fiction is dead.

Maybe, but the way it was filmed and executed (if you can ignore the science fiction) is in my opinion one of the most breathtaking moments in movies.
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It is one of the worst movies that I've seen in my entire life, but if you enjoyed it, more power to you. I enjoy some objectively bad stuff too.
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OliviaTremor posted...

BlAcK TuRtLe posted...

OliviaTremor posted...

CasanovaZelos posted...

Now, I do enjoy dull movies. I have watched several films that belong to the 'Slow Cinema' movement. Not that I think The Last Jedi belongs anywhere near there, but you know...

Anyway, my reasons for loving The Last Jedi fall largely into the technical and stylistic aspects of the film. I guess I find the plot critiques so odd because I've never viewed Star Wars as a series where I cared about the actual details of how things worked? Like, to me, watching a Star Wars movie for the plot makes about as much sense as listening to Daft Punk for the lyrics.

I agree with everything in this post. The Last Jedi had some absolutely fantastic set pieces and gorgeous cinematography. It's a stunningly beautiful movie in my opinion. Maybe you don't care for the light speed suicide, but I find it hard to believe that someone didn't gasp in amazement at the way the scene was shot, the brilliant sound cut, and lingering on the destruction. It's moments like that that make Star Wars for me, personally, and when a Star Wars movie does something well (or even poorly) it is forever ingrained in your memory.

I think the problem with that scene is how it completely shits on the established rules of how hyperspace functions.

Then again, they already did that with the "let's just jump in THROUGH the planetary shield" bullshit in TFA, so I guess the science in science fiction is dead.

Maybe, but the way it was filmed and executed (if you can ignore the science fiction) is in my opinion one of the most breathtaking moments in movies.

It was a very pretty CGI effect and the sound design was great, but to call it one of the 'most breathtaking moments in movies' is completely insane. If that is your honest opinion, you clearly have not watched nearly enough movies
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ExThaNemesis posted...

It is one of the worst movies that I've seen in my entire life, but if you enjoyed it, more power to you. I enjoy some subjectively bad stuff too.

Ftfy
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One thing I will agree with, throne room scene was fucking amazing.

It's just... they didn't follow up with the amazing risk they could've taken.

I am ALL IN for Episode 9 being Luke trying his damndest to save Ren and Rey from the dark side and maybe redeeming himself.

It's Disney tho so of course no risks
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ExThaNemesis posted...

One thing I will agree with, throne room scene was fucking amazing.

It's just... they didn't follow up with the amazing risk they could've taken.

I am ALL IN for Episode 9 being Luke trying his damndest to save Ren and Rey from the dark side and maybe redeeming himself.

It's Disney tho so of course no risks

That doesnt add up. TLJ was pretty much all risk and fans were pissed whereas TFA was a no risk retelling of A New Hope and Abrams own Star Trek 09.
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What? TLJ took a ton of risks. The backlash it received is evidence of the risks it took.
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Hmmm I don't think they took much risk with TLJ at all.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

One thing I will agree with, throne room scene was fucking amazing.

It's just... they didn't follow up with the amazing risk they could've taken.

I am ALL IN for Episode 9 being Luke trying his damndest to save Ren and Rey from the dark side and maybe redeeming himself.

It's Disney tho so of course no risks

The things that TLJ did right were the risks it took. Everything about Kylo and Rey's story was handled well, and I personally had no issue with how Luke was handled.

The issue were the parts that didn't take risks at all. The shoehorned in Chinese lady was a very flagrant attempt to boost ticket sales in the growing chinese market, and admiral bitch-face was there to pander to the SJW morons that enjoyed Ghostbusters 2016. The side-plot on the casino planet was supposed to appeal to kids I guess? I really don't understand Finn's entire story in the movie, the only conclusion I can come to is that I'm too old now to understand it?
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The biggest issue with TLJ is that it took too many risks. It took the risks a trilogy of films should have taken. Each one deserved to stand alone and breathe. Instead it was crammed with the genre-breaking and series-breaking conventions that all felt lessened by being sandwiched next to each other.
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I guess I really wanted to see Rey succumb to the darker parts of her nature like they had teased a few times. And then in the third movie she could come back.
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Don't give a shit about the franchise as a whole and it was pretty fucking bad.
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For the record I also enjoyed Ghostbusters 2016

And Ocean's 8

Because I just watched them as movies and didn't think about the political stuff as I consumed them, and they were, yknow, fine.
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I liked Leia's space jump, I remember my reaction at the time being "Hell yeah, you're a fucking Skywalker, about time you pull something insane". Then I got home and the reaction was like why the icky girl do stuff boo
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Just wait until they reveal the radicalized feminists were the real dark side all along.
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I thought the real dark side was the friends we made along the way.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

TLJ took the risk of letting radicalized feminists do the writing, which is the exact reason that movie is trash. There is no coming back for that series.

And this topic was going well for the most part for 75 posts until now.
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Was it, though? Was it really?
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DeathChicken posted...

I liked Leia's space jump, I remember my reaction at the time being "Hell yeah, you're a fucking Skywalker, about time you pull something insane". Then I got home and the reaction was like why the icky girl do stuff boo

lmao her being a woman has nothing to do with why that scene was ridiculous
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I just really hate how some fans push this narrative that the only reason to dislike the movie come from a vocal minority of redpillers and star wars otaku

I hated the movie completely on its own merits. You're not giving blockbusters enough credit if you only really care about spectacle. Last Jedi totally succeeded there. And I didn't think the movie was boring like Rogue One.

But the original trilogy looks like ass today and it still holds up because the writing was there.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

DeathChicken posted...

I liked Leia's space jump, I remember my reaction at the time being "Hell yeah, you're a fucking Skywalker, about time you pull something insane". Then I got home and the reaction was like why the icky girl do stuff boo

lmao her being a woman has nothing to do with why that scene was ridiculous

And yet the reaction was basically a thousand Ultis shrieking "FEMINISM!" in unison
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I have never been more conflicted in my feelings about a movie than TLJ. To this day, I have no idea whether I like it or hate it.

My analogy is that the ST features two directors as kids. The first brings out his toys, but most of them are still in the original packaging and aren't allowed to be played with (i.e. how Leia and Han fall back into their old roles rather than having any growth in the 30 year time jump) and he gets so mad when you accidentally bend the corner of one of them (Han), he decides to put him away forever so you can't play with it. The toys that aren't boxed are... alright. One of them is kinda neat, another seems to come with a million features, but they're not bad and they're fairly endearing.

Then the second kid comes along and sets everything on fire. And your first reaction is to be horrified until you realize "wait... these aren't my toys." And then you start observing the way they melt and it becomes kinda interesting the various plastic masses that remain.
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Because they'll find a way to blame feminism for everything.

Especially with Disney and the director being pretty in support of feminism (as anyone should be).

Doesn't really affect the movie
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A nerd posted...

Lol bunch of nerds who hate it for ruining Star Wars.

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Man I can't imagine believing TLJ ruined Star Wars after the PT.
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TLJ killed my interest in Star Wars

Not because it was terrible, but because I found it interesting-but-flawed, went online to discuss it with people, and discovered that there is a correct answer to the question "which fanbase is the worst one?"
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I'm a little conflicted because the movie has a lot of flaws but it has basically been used as a rallying cry for anti inclusion and a platform for more fringey far right groups(basically, the racists).

People are basically using flaws in storytelling and falsely blaming them on race and gender.

I don't understand everyone talking about how "amazing" the throne room sequence was, when it was already telegraphed thirty-four years earlier in RotJ. There was a good ten minutes dedicated to Palpatine in his throne room monologuing about how Luke killing him directly would be the final step towards the dark side.

So of course they have a scene in not-Palpatine's throne room where not-Palpatine monologues about "completing his training" and "I see him turning the lightsaber to strike true" in generic enough terms that it was clearly just the same speech. All he needed was a croaking "strike me down with all of your hatred" and it would have basically been that exact scene in RotJ. Hell, I was saying that line over and over myself in the middle of his whole big speech (there was plenty of time to repeat it given how excruciatingly slow that scene is).

Though I guess after TFA was practically a shot-for-shot remake of A New Hope, nobody really thought they'd be stupid enough to keep lifting scenes wholesale from the earlier movies, which could explain why you thought it was so great.
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XIII_rocks posted...

For the record I also enjoyed Ghostbusters 2016

And Ocean's 8

Because I just watched them as movies and didn't think about the political stuff as I consumed them, and they were, yknow, fine.

The political stuff is literally the only reason to watch them if that's what you're into (disclaimer, I have not seen Ocean's 8). Ghostbusters 2016 is one of the least funny, least entertaining movies I have ever seen. Watch the RedLetterMedia review on it, it does a great job of showing the issues that movie had.
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DeathChicken posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

DeathChicken posted...

I liked Leia's space jump, I remember my reaction at the time being "Hell yeah, you're a fucking Skywalker, about time you pull something insane". Then I got home and the reaction was like why the icky girl do stuff boo

lmao her being a woman has nothing to do with why that scene was ridiculous

And yet the reaction was basically a thousand Ultis shrieking "FEMINISM!" in unison

Nothing about Leia's scenes had anything to do with feminism, it was more the ridiculous (and unintentionally hilarious) visual of the scene, coupled with the fact that it added absolutely nothing to the story.

The militant feminist issue is more surrounding admiral bitch-face, who despite having poor leadership qualities and decision making skills, is made to be some kind of 'badass' because she has blue hair. Take out Holdo and put in Admiral Ackbar in that role and the story becomes 1000x more compelling. Skip the 'Leia in space' scene or have her surrender her self to confront Kylo (and then be rescued by Finn to give him something to do besides that casino bullshit.

Look, in 5 minutes of thinking, I have already made the movie a million times better
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Nah I watched them because they both had reasonably good casts, especially in O8's case, and I like both original properties.

And neither of them were as good as the original, but they were both reasonably fine. I will say though that Hemsworth stole the show in Ghostbusters which kind of undercut the political point, but again - who the fuck cares. Just choose not to care.

"The political stuff is the only reason to watch those movies" is a fucking ludicrous statement. It's a fun heist/ghost flick. Overcomplicating it is pointless.
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I was enthusiastic about an all-female Ghostbusters cast and I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was as bad as everyone said it was. it's ok if you liked it though. that's the part that everyone misses

as for TLJ I didn't like it but it was interesting enough for me to not hate it

weirdly enough RLM echoed my feelings of every new Star Wars movie after I saw them - I loved TFA, was very meh about RO/TLJ, and was pleasantly surprised by Solo

Paratroopa1 posted...

I was enthusiastic about an all-female Ghostbusters cast and I thought Ghostbusters 2016 was as bad as everyone said it was. it's ok if you liked it though. that's the part that everyone misses

Yeah and this is the thing. A 2016 Ghostbusters remake being not good according to some people is nothing shocking. A huge amount of Hollywood content is bad to mediocre. But because it's an all-female cast, the movie is bad because of the political stuff. Not because it's a Hollywood rehash and there's a reasonably low success rate with those.

Like just as a random comparison of two of said rehashes, I liked Ghostbusters a little bit more than, say, The Man From UNCLE, but that's just me. But Ghostbusters being "bad" means it's the fucking antichrist, while Man From UNCLE just gets to be another mediocre Hollywood rehash.
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TLJ was meh because the conflicts were mostly hamfisted and then they say the main one doesn't even matter because both sides fighting just benefits the military- industrial complex.

At the end of the movie, who are you rooting for against who? And why?
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Rian Johnson is a pretty good film maker but he had no idea what he was doing with TLJ. And dumbass Disney execs should have planned out the trilogy better. You don't plan a trilogy and then give each movie a different director with full control. That's just baffling.
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Speaking of Rian Johnson, everyone should watch his great video for a song by my favorite band

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gIhrPGyu6U" data-time="
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DeathChicken posted...

And yet the reaction was basically a thousand Ultis shrieking "FEMINISM!" in unison

I'm not Ulti, and I liked the movie overall, but I think the Holdo/Poe storyline was feminist in a hamfisted and preachy way, to its detriment.

Poe is your typical guy action hero. He thinks he knows better than the women, so he makes a daring plan to save the day, which is just what guy action heroes do. But the women had things under control all along! Poe's guy-action-hero-ness was useless, and nearly screwed things up for the team!

I'm not inherently opposed to Poe being a screwup but I think it was badly handled.
- The narrative dunks on Poe for not trusting Holdo, but really, Holdo gave zero reason for anyone to trust her. Like, I think Poe did the right thing under the circumstances and given what he knew, but the movie clearly wants you to think otherwise.
- Also it makes the entire sidequest useless zzzz
- It comes with a lot of moralizing. At the beginning, Leia (I think) tells Poe "DON'T BE SUCH A HERO." Then Poe tries to be a hero and it's useless (told you so!!) Then, in case we missed it, the moral gets repeated on the red planet when Rose yells at Finn for trying to be a hero (also repeating the gender dynamic in case we missed that).

So yeah I didn't go into the movie expecting/wanting it to be political, but that was the message I felt.
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Yeah it's a good film. Has some flaws, but I appreciate the 8th movie of a franchise trying to subvert expectations rather than repeat them.
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Gatarix posted...

At the beginning, Leia (I think) tells Poe "DON'T BE SUCH A HERO." Then Poe tries to be a hero and it's useless

Was it though? If they hadn't destroyed that ship when they did, wouldn't it have just followed them through hyperspace and killed them?
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ExThaNemesis posted...

One thing I will agree with, throne room scene was fucking amazing.

It's just... they didn't follow up with the amazing risk they could've taken.

I am ALL IN for Episode 9 being Luke trying his damndest to save Ren and Rey from the dark side and maybe redeeming himself.

It's Disney tho so of course no risks

Oh I agree, I so wanted Rey to turn evil.
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hombad46 posted...

Gatarix posted...

At the beginning, Leia (I think) tells Poe "DON'T BE SUCH A HERO." Then Poe tries to be a hero and it's useless

Was it though? If they hadn't destroyed that ship when they did, wouldn't it have just followed them through hyperspace and killed them?

I'm not sure which ship you mean. I was referring to the whole casino subplot.
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Gatarix posted...

hombad46 posted...

Gatarix posted...

At the beginning, Leia (I think) tells Poe "DON'T BE SUCH A HERO." Then Poe tries to be a hero and it's useless

Was it though? If they hadn't destroyed that ship when they did, wouldn't it have just followed them through hyperspace and killed them?

I'm not sure which ship you mean. I was referring to the whole casino subplot.

The dreadnought at the beginning of the movie. The one Rose's sister died to destroy because they used really crappy bombers.
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That doesn't sound feminist at all. That sounds like Poe not listening to other characters who tell him time and time again not to be brash and to trust his superiors.

For what it's worth, I don't necessarily agree the movie wants you to disagree with Poe's actions. Sure, Holdo had a plan, but that doesn't mean that Poe's plan was bad necessarily. In fact I think the audience would believe it was pretty good. We just didn't realize Holdo had a plan and neither did Poe. You can argue about the writing for that til the end of time, but I really, really don't see it as being some weird feminist narrative. To me, it's a guy who was demoted vs superiors presented in a way that the audience sides with the character who was in the previous movie as opposed to this new character we know nothing about.
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Given that they chose to intentionally misconstrue Holdo's motives in a negative light for most of the film and that Holdo herself basically framed it as a gender war, you could honestly make the argument that the film is anti-feminist

though ultimately it's really neither and the culture war stuff surrounding this film is nonsense

hombad46 posted...

The dreadnought at the beginning of the movie. The one Rose's sister died to destroy because they used really crappy bombers.

Oh yeah, fair point
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OliviaTremor posted...

this new character we know nothing about.

well, holdo already appeared in one of the canon novels before TLJ.
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how do the bombs fall down if they are in space
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Bartzyx posted...

how do the bombs fall down if they are in space

Magnets

Of all the stupid 'let's ignore the science in science fiction' bullshit in the ST, this was by far the least egregious

How about the cannons when they're chasing the fleet that have a firing arc? How about the complete trashing of hyperspace mechanics to serve a plot point?

I usually don't care for the nitpicky details, but these changes completely ruin a lot of the plot in the original movies. If all you needed to do to destroy a giant superweapon was to fly into it a lightspeed, they could have just pointed a Corellian corvette at the heart of the Death Star and turned on hyperdrive. Or just invent missiles that have a hyperdrive engine to instantly puncture any shield and destroy a capital ship
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