Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 249: Phase 1 of a scheduled topic series

(+) Yeah! (+)

LordoftheMorons posted...

The allegations of cheating have not been definitively refuted

You have it backwards, theyve never been proven.

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SmartMuffin posted...

Honestly when it comes to internal strife within foreign nations, I am increasingly coming to the position that it is entirely inappropriate for Americans to have any opinion whatsoever.

Because "Americans have strong opinions on what's going on in Bolivia/Venezuela/Ukraine/Hong Kong/wherever the fuck" is exactly what the deep state wants. Because so long as we have strong opinions on what should be done, we're easily persuaded to involve ourselves in ensuring it is done.

I have no idea what the fuck the right thing to do in any of those nations is. And reading a few "long form" articles from some biased as fuck journalists will not change that. So I'm staying the fuck out of it. And I demand my government stay the fuck out of it as well.

I would 100% agree with this if the US didnt have a very public and verifiable history of covertly supporting the government toppling.

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and that's exactly why we should avoid doing anything that might make them think it's okay to keep doing that

the deep state topples foreign governments because they think the American people want them to (or at least, don't mind it enough to do anything about it)
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SmartMuffin posted...

the deep state topples foreign governments

Read this as the deep state topless foreign governments
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if you promised me a topless ukranian government i'd renounce libertarianism forever

ukranian chicks are hot AF
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LordoftheMorons posted...

The allegations of cheating have not been definitively refuted

Did I miss it and they proved there was cheating or something? Because if not, the burden of proof is on the accuser. Why should this be a case of guilty until proven innocent?

I can't accuse you of being a subterranean mole man and then go "The allegations of LotM being a subterranean mole man have not been definitively refuted."
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Have you ever seen LotM and the molemen in the same room at the same time though???

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KamikazePotato posted...

Have you ever seen LotM and the molemen in the same room at the same time though???

You couldn't see it, but I put glasses on and then slowly took them off in shocked realization
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Well, the cheating can't be definitively proven without an actual investigation, but the allegation was being made by a serious group of which Bolivia is a member. There was most likely a better way for this to be handled, but ruling the election a Morales victory without an investigation (which I think is what people like Tony, Chris, and Cyclo are implying should have happened?) would be unacceptable.

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anyone that still buys the cheating allegations thrown around in venezuela or bolivia when BOTH times the leader in charge invited further inspectors to come to the election and they refused, and Morales was even willing to run new elections, Maduro has taken NO ACTION against Guiado despite literally attempting to overthrow his government, and just considering the insanely long history of CIA meddling in the foreign affairs and attempting coups of leftist leaders in South America, I don't know what to tell you. The US is starving Venezuela with sanctions, the right wing coup supporters are withholding food from the shelves to justify their coup, in Bolivia the facists are killing innocents, unconstitutionally appointing themselves and arresting members of Morales party, when will the centrists stop thinking that right wing facists can be trusted? they will do or say anything to get power. it is only your naivety or privilege that is so massive you would prefer facists to leftists that time and time again allows this to happen.

SmartMuffin posted...

deep state

lmao
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Putting aside the specific matter of Morales... FWIW, the actions taken by the interim government have not been trying hard at all to behave in a way that refutes the coup narrative.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

deep state

lmao

dude, denying that the deep state exists is so 2016

all the hip modern #resistance types celebrate the deep state

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1197537086250860545
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I have nothing positive to say about the interim government, to be clear. What I wanted to push back against was this "the opposition is terrible so that implies Morales didn't do anything wrong" bullshit logic

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SmartMuffin posted...

dude, denying that the deep state exists is so 2016

all the hip modern #resistance types celebrate the deep state

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1197537086250860545

They're reappropriating a bullshit term coined by conspiracy theorists like you

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SmartMuffin posted...

dude, denying that the deep state exists is so 2016

It's pretty easy to deny something that doesn't exist.
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They're reappropriating a bullshit term coined by conspiracy theorists like you

except he is using the term the exact same way we do

its literally describing the same group of people with the same set of behaviors
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If the "Deep State" were even a shadow of what conspiracy theorists claimed it was, they've done a terrible job tbqh. All this supposed power and what have they substantively accomplished in thwarting the Trump administration? Just like how Clinton can somehow vanish dozens, if not hundreds, of people and orchestrate a nationwide campaign fraud operation involving millions of votes but somehow uses all this power to run up the score in California instead of Ohio.

"weird" how the nebulous opposition to authoritarians is always all-powerful and capable of organizing and running massive covert operations and on the verge of absolute control but also completely weak, stupid, and ineffective and about to be totally defeated by the strongmen.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Well, the cheating can't be definitively proven without an actual investigation, but the allegation was being made by a serious group of which Bolivia is a member. There was most likely a better way for this to be handled, but ruling the election a Morales victory without an investigation (which I think is what people like Tony, Chris, and Cyclo are implying should have happened?) would be unacceptable.

No? Nothing is ever wrong with investigations into a matter. He was inviting new elections and the refuting of it seemed clear to me.

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what have they substantively accomplished in thwarting the Trump administration

literally none of Trump's social agenda has been implemented

no wall, no muslim ban, not even a decrease in legal immigration

no existing wars have been ended or scaled back

pretty much the only thing they failed to stop was tax cuts
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

No? Nothing is ever wrong with investigations into a matter. He was inviting new elections and the refuting of it seemed clear to me.

To play devil's advocate, he only invited new elections after massive social unrest after having declared victory. If you're arguing with someone who believes wrongdoing may have occurred this argument isn't substantively that different from the current GOP argument that Trump did nothing wrong because the alleged quid pro quo never was followed through on (because they were caught.)
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SmartMuffin posted...

no wall, no muslim ban, not even a decrease in legal immigration

The wall was stopped by Congress (until Trump illegally declared a national emergency, which is still working its way through the courts). He watered down the Muslim ban after it was stopped by the courts. A substantial number of Republicans don't want a decrease in legal immigration because it's economically dumb as fuck, but I thought your side always claimed that the only problem was illegal immigration anyway? In any case, Trump has (disgustingly) massively decreased the number of people being accepted for asylum.

SmartMuffin posted...

no existing wars have been ended or scaled back

It's almost like he was lying about being anti-war!

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SmartMuffin posted...

no wall, no muslim ban, not even a decrease in legal immigration

1) the wall is dum

2) the "muslim ban" got rebranded because a ban based on someone's religion is not legal. Subsequent versions of the travel ban have even been upheld.

3) legal immigration allowances have absolutely been slashed and are going down more next year too.

So....
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The best way to continue to secretly operate a shadow government cabal is to send your members out to testify in front of Congress
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I love that the Deep State has been able to block the vast majority of Trump's anti-establishment agenda, yet were somehow too incompetent to prevent a historically-incompetent conman from tricking a minority of voters into installing him as president in the first place.

It just seems to me that if the Deep State were real and had as much power as people like Smuffin claim...it sure as hell wouldn't be stymied as easily by Republicans as it has been.
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https://www.wbaltv.com/article/ruth-bader-ginsburg-johns-hopkins-hospital/29912799

fuck

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Inviso posted...

I love that the Deep State has been able to block the vast majority of Trump's anti-establishment agenda, yet were somehow too incompetent to prevent a historically-incompetent conman from tricking a minority of voters into installing him as president in the first place.

It just seems to me that if the Deep State were real and had as much power as people like Smuffin claim...it sure as hell wouldn't be stymied as easily by Republicans as it has been.

Inviso talking about the deep state in 1st person. Got'em.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/ruth-bader-ginsburg-johns-hopkins-hospital/29912799

fuck

Officials said her symptoms are becoming better and she should be out of the hospital as early as Sunday.

Hey jerk face dont scare me.
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When people say "deep state" I tend to mentally substitute "those parts of the United States government with more loyalty to the United States than to the current executive." Which is, admittedly, rather a mouthful. I can see why they'd abbreviate.
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This is such an absurd argument. Obviously there is not some shadowy cabal with the sole mission of thwarting the policies of Donald Trump, who has done basically nothing that differs from any other republican would have done, except a lot more sloppy about the criminality, but what exactly are you guys fucking saying that there is no deep state? The CIA, NSA, all these alphabet organizations with extreme powers the scope of which we probably aren't even aware of, and for whom almost all of their operations are not public knowledge, are absolutely real things. These are organizations that do things like traffic children to guys like Donald Trump in order to control them. We know they do things like this. It's actually more conceivable that the 'deep state' can control Donald's agenda through blackmail they possess on him rather than actively trying to remove him from office or thwart his efforts.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

legal immigration allowances have absolutely been slashed and are going down more next year too.

"Come in the legal way!" they screech as they try to make it impossible
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xp1337 posted...

To play devil's advocate, he only invited new elections after massive social unrest after having declared victory. If you're arguing with someone who believes wrongdoing may have occurred this argument isn't substantively that different from the current GOP argument that Trump did nothing wrong because the alleged quid pro quo never was followed through on (because they were caught.)

I do not wish to equate these two things for many reasons, the amount of evidence being one of them. Define "massive social unrest" and what it means. I... I don't know sometimes. I don't know much about Bolivia, the only thing I know is what I've seen in various news stories and still the most compelling thing I saw was a defense of the results in a twitter string by someone who apparently is familiar with politics down there. I could have been misled, I just haven't been compelled to believe so.

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https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1198382164930371585

Sounds like Rudy is brewing up some crazy shit and likely has a few Ukrainians willing to lie about Joe Biden in exchange for US visas

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House Ethics complaint against Nunes:
https://twitter.com/funder/status/1198116647082582016

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Nrrr posted...

These are organizations that do things like traffic children to guys like Donald Trump in order to control them. We know they do things like this.

[citation needed]
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Not_an_Owl posted...

[citation needed]

is...this a real post? do you read the news or even follow along these topics? like...at all?

If it's so well known then you'll have no problem providing him a citation.
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look up jeffrey epstein and ghislaine maxwell, intelligence agents who have been in the news for over a decade for the crimes of trafficking children through modeling agencies, and purchasing them through poor nations, and filming the encounters with wealthy and famous people for decades for the use of blackmail, you absolute fucking morons. these topics are so fucking irritating sometimes. I am treated like an insane weirdo for actually fucking understanding anything that goes on in the world, even completely not obscure national news that has been reported on for YEARS. whats next? do you fucking rubes need citations about how the CIA constantly kidnaps, tortures, experiments on, poisons, murders, and plans false flag terrorist attacks against the US citizens and has openly declassified all of that information? look up COINTELPRO, MKUltra, operation northwoods, operation paperclip, operation mockingbird, like just fucking made the slightest bit of effort to understand anything you ever talk about. Literally every single one of these things I have posted about, provided links talking about, and are absolutely real things.

It was just revealed today by wikileaks, https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1198390941314420736, that doctoring occurred in the reports about Assad using chemical weapons. They obviously lied to us about Iraq having WMDs, and were always planning to go to war. https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/world/europe/bush-was-set-on-path-towar-british-memo-says.html The gulf war was sold to us on a complete lie about baby incubators. Our government supports any coup against a left wing government, claiming they steal elections, sanctioning them, our policy for many many years has been to contain and defeat leftist governments, but supports absolutely undemocratic, unconstitutional, racist, sexist, dictarships that are right wing across the globe. We support the facist israeli government at any moment in time. We help the Saudis commit a genocide against the Yemeni people. Our nation has a fucking militarized facist police force that acts like an occupying mafia, protecting private property over human lives or interests on behalf of the capital class, corporate CIA has long since infiltrated MSM, like what the fuck is wrong with you fucking morons?

Cyclos return has been a nice reminder that conspiracy minded insanity truly is bipartisan

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that was a lot of words about stuff without actually saying where the part about Epstein being a cia person comes from

edit:

ok its based on something Acosta said about why they didnt prosecute him harder the first time he was in court. The thing I read speculated that he was maybe involved with a foreign intelligence agency rather than one here.

this dumb website doesnt work right anymore so I cant paste the link to the article I read

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https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1198493990766698496

WokeCanadianFootball
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1090216

Bloomberg officially in and immediately spends the largest ad buy in the history of politics (!!!)
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I just don't get why Bloomberg is using all that money to run for president. There are so many more effective ways he could use that money to stop Warren and Sanders if he's that worried about them.
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Like paying the deep state cia hitsquad or something.
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Epstein is on record as having said he worked for the CIA, though he since retracted that because... reasons.
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SmartMuffin posted...

https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1198493990766698496

WokeCanadianFootball

Twitter allowing an openly racist pow wow here.

The internet is an evil place.

The internet is an evil place.

yep. you should leave it.
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NBD, just a US Senator parroting Russian propaganda he knows is false:

https://twitter.com/toluseo/status/1198606467366039552?s=21

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