Board 8 > How did you feel about Pokemon Sword & Shield?

(+) Yeah! (+)

TomNook7 posted...

Also the story was horrendous, but who cares

Me. The story and characters are what I care about the most. I play the campaigns start to finish and then never touch them again.

I am pretty sure I have never once gotten into a Pokemon battle with a real person, online or otherwise.

tera transformations seem terrible - what's good about them?

Dancedreamer posted...

Because S/V is the best gen aside from performance issues. No random battles, tera types, shiny hunting, open world non-linear, no HM Moves, the best story since Gen V, likable rivals, and a lot of QoL changes.

Yeah, this is pretty much it. I like the fact that it's open world, but not so overwhelmingly so that you get choice paralysis. I hadn't SwSh scaling everything at a time when WoW was pulling that same bullshit. Plus, the Pokemon selection is solid, the Paradox concept feels new and different, but not in a broken way. And I love how the game really makes it easier (through purchase ability) to get a Pokemon as perfect as you want it, via changes natures, easily-craftable TMs. It's the most fun I've had with a Pokemon game in a while.

Also, it's hard to say it doesn't matter when Arceus has ENDLESS, NONSTOP, DRONING CUTSCENES ALL THE TIME.

And NONE of them are any good. It's infinite suffering.

Legends Arceus was fun.

For the first area, then it got kind of old. The concept was good, but it doesn't really pick back up until the end game. Also relied too much on crafting. Not everything has to have crafting!

Arceus's story had some great scenes, particularly in the post-game, but it definitely had a lot of boring dialogue.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

They made an open world pokemon game where you can tackle gyms in any order...but the gyms don't scale. A fundamental failure of execution, it was literally the most important thing in the game to get right. You can't recover from that.

People HATE level scaling. It's the number 1 complaint about Bethesda games and Diablo 4.

I liked Sword and Shield more than any other Pokmon game since BW era, but it was mainly me going heh heh big Pokmon and just running around the world seeing what dumb stuff I can catch early, also could just be me playing it during the lockdown

maybe I am easy to please

MacArrowny posted...

People HATE level scaling. It's the number 1 complaint about Bethesda games and Diablo 4.

What's the point of marketing an open world Pokemon game that lets you tackle the gyms in any order if there's no actual point in tackling the gyms in any order? Why even give you the option then?

Every other problem I have with SV pales in comparison to this issue.

If the same gym has the potential to throw out level 8 garbage at you can also throw out level 70 monsters, that's cool as fuck. That gives meaning to the feature. As it stands, the feature is meaningless.

UshiromiyaEva posted...
Me. The story and characters are what I care about the most.

hate to break this to you brother:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c20bcbe4.jpg

Like my biggest fault with Sword and Shield is probably how many pokemon you can't see on the world map, and have to run into randomly. You can easily spend an hour looking for a specific pokemon. And Shinies don't appear on the map. Scarlet and Violet fixed that. And hopefully that's how it stays going forward. Now if only they can give shinies a sound when they appear like in Legends Arceus...

SeabassDebeste posted...

tera transformations seem terrible - what's good about them?

type-change adds a whole 'nother layer of strategy that even made previously unthinkable pokmon viable in new ways - do you wanna just Tera to strengthen your offensive capabilities? boost your natural STAB, turn yourself into a DIFFERENT typing with boosted STAB, or do you want a Tera-type to block your vulnerabilities instead? like for say Slaking, you can Ghost is a popular typing that turns his natural fighting weakness into a ineffective attack while boosting Sucker Punch or Shadow Claw for attacking. Alternative there's Fire-typing to protect against burn without using your item slot for it and keep your powerful attack state

like with Megas/Dynamax you only get one so you gotta spend that tactical decision right and watching people theorize what their opponent might be bringing during the Poke-select is so fascinating

I've seen a lot of battles where a different than Tera-type really turns the battle on its head, with the same Pokemon being capable of entirely different things with that element is incredibly interesting

some Megas offered these tactics, but a) not all Megas and b) only a select few pokemon could go Mega. Tera adds this strategy EVERYWHERE and without limit on which pokemon can be which type

UshiromiyaEva posted...

What's the point of marketing an open world Pokemon game that lets you tackle the gyms in any order if there's no actual point in tackling the gyms in any order? Why even give you the option then?

Being able to challenge yourself and do the hard content first, obviously. People love this with every open world game. You have players going straight to the level 80 content in Elden Ring, then swinging back around to do the level 15 content later.

With S/V in particular, I know people used multiple teams to make the game more interesting, too. People like raising a lot of Pokemon, so running into easier content later was a good excuse to train up some more Pokemon.

MacArrowny posted...

People like raising a lot of Pokemon, so running into easier content later was a good excuse to train up some more Pokemon.

This has always been it for me with level scaling. I don't just mean for S/V but ever since EXP Share changed the game it's always enabled me to switch-up my teams to fit where I am and make the most of my battles

I still dont hate them but going back after SV to fill out my G-Max dex entries really hurt my impressions (which had previously been fine but not great).

SV easily my favorite new gen games since at least the DS.

When I play a Pokemon game, I decide on my team of 6 before I start playing and those are the only 6 Pokemon I catch (unless the game gates areas off by needing a certain amount.)

So yeah....probably a fundemental difference in approach.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

What's the point of marketing an open world Pokemon game that lets you tackle the gyms in any order if there's no actual point in tackling the gyms in any order? Why even give you the option then?

Every other problem I have with SV pales in comparison to this issue.

If the same gym has the potential to throw out level 8 garbage at you can also throw out level 70 monsters, that's cool as fuck. That gives meaning to the feature. As it stands, the feature is meaningless.

The way I see it, the game's set-up is so that you can theoretically go whatever you want and treat it like an open world, but the levels make it so there's a SUGGESTED order of events, so people like me, who want linearity and want more of a path to follow, can still enjoy the games without being overwhelmed. Even still, the world itself is open in a different way then SwSh's wild area, where it feels like different sections of an area can be home to completely different Pokemon, which makes the biodiversity feel immense. SwSh, everything just existed in zones depending on the weather, which felt like everything was largely interchangeable.

open world definitely enabled me to quickly go ham sandwich on those chansey bitches up north asap

DragonGargoyle posted...

It had the most interesting gym challenge and league since Gen 1 imo, and putting more focus on them over some big conflict was a nice change of pace. The way that things were framed like a sports career emphasised the feeling of "this is your personal adventure with your pokemon friends". Most pokemon games aren't noticibly easier compared other JRPGs imo, and this is no exception, so the fights memorable for me

I will agree with this however. The gym challenge has felt arbitrary for a long time (especially since they stopped giving you really solid rivals in Gen II), but Gen VIII's gym challenge is actually the most interesting version in a long time.

MacArrowny posted...

People HATE level scaling. It's the number 1 complaint about Bethesda games and Diablo 4.

Level scaling that scales based on your level is bad. Level scaling that scales based on your accomplishments is good. There should have been multiple versions of each fight and as you progressed further into the game all content (or at least gyms/bosses/etc) would go up to the next tier

WoW's level scaling in particular was atrocious because you actively became weaker on level up whilst the rewards for kills remained the same. It was just very poorly implemented

yeah Sw/sh is the only one in the series where you do battle in front of thousands of screaming fans, which is what i always wanted. and then the fans sing along to the battle music? Thats so cool

man im replaying sword right now tho and it is taking forever to get going

I have a hot take myself: I don't really like the chanting. But obviously I get that it fits the sports theme and it's a great design choice, just not for me.

Yeah, I liked how the gym challenge in Sw/Sh was this big event that happened once a year or so and that gym leaders had leagues (though, the fact we never saw anything from the minor league makes me think that was another thing that was unfinished).

And yeah, SV being open-world but not scaling based on the number of things you've done was dumb because the 'suggested' order was completely non-sensical and expected you to zig-zag across the map if you wanted to do them in order, which no one not using a guide did, so you'd find stuff you were supposed to do hours earlier and it'd be completely forgettable because you'd stomp through it.

I just don't think you can do proper scaling without scaling EVERYTHING. Which means dealing with wild Pokemon suddenly becoming on par with stuff you've been leveling hard all game. It's the exact problem that arose from the bullshit WoW pulled.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

When I play a Pokemon game, I decide on my team of 6 before I start playing and those are the only 6 Pokemon I catch (unless the game gates areas off by needing a certain amount.)

This explains why you don't like Legends Arceus! Trying to go through that game with a single team of 6 would be dreadful.

There's no reason that both the overworld and the gyms both have to scale. Just scale the gyms. Just do the thing like in Origins where Brock checked how many badges Red had, and then opened up his vault with 80 pokeballs in it and picked out a few that were the right level.

SeabassDebeste posted...

tera transformations seem terrible - what's good about them?

It adds an additional element of risk and reward to battles without being overbearing. When used effectively it is a tool that can assist with turning the tide of battle but it isn't a get out of jail free card. It's also something where pretty much every Pokemon on a team might find an opportunity to use.

The downside is, it's sort of a stock visual effect for most Pokemon. Gigantamax and Megas involved creating new Pokemon designs for a Pokemon to turn into. Z moves, particularly Pokemon specific Z moves, came with a super flashy animation. Tera just adds a crystal effect, sparkles and a hat to all Pokemon except Ogerpon.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

There's no reason that both the overworld and the gyms both have to scale. Just scale the gyms. Just do the thing like in Origins where Brock checked how many badges Red had, and then opened up his fault with 80 pokeballs in it and picked out a few that were the right level.

But you're asking GameFreak to scale the gyms, while still leaving the Pokemon the same around them, all so that a player could theoretically seek out a specific gym that they have such emotional investment in that they're willing to brave a region of level 40+ wild Pokemon in order to challenge that gym first at level 15. I think the problem is you're looking at it from the perspective of the endgame, where you're strong and a badass, and if you can challenge the gyms in any order, then the ones you challenge last should be the hardest on the scale. The issue is that you have to worry about are the gyms you fight early then. So let's take Grusha. You have to climb up a mountain packed with level 30-40 Pokemon in order to reach him...so what's the incentive of scaling him down to have like, a level 15 Cubchoo, level 15 Cetoddle, and a level 15 ice-Tera Swablu? So you'd HAVE to scale wild Pokemon as well, otherwise there's no incentive to brave the tougher areas.

make high grass in each area that scales mons and low grass that doesn't

hide some cool TMs behind the high grass

No one has an emotional investment in any of the gyms their first time through. The point is you set off in a random direction and just stumble upon things randomly and do them as you go. Which would work if they had scaled it properly, but instead you go from the Grass Gym's lvl 16-17 Pokemon to Mela's lvl 26-27 Pokemon who are right next door to each other with zero indication of where the next 'expected' thing you're supposed to do is.

how about the gyms have actual gameplay instead of being based entirely around meaningless puzzles that are too simplistic and borderline glitchy

if mela is too strong you go in another direction and come back later, its that simple

I didn't hate SwSh as much as many others. I actually had a lot of fun with it, overall. The biggest issue for me was the extremely uninspired route/dungeon design. It's always, always a straight path. The old games had an overhead view and you could actually explore something. The caves, especially, were these expansive dungeons with secret entrances and multiple pathways - not that they were some brilliant design, but they did the job. You could get lost there. SwSh's caves and routes are all just paths, which severely limits the exploration aspect. At most there would be a split, and you'd walk 5 seconds to grab an antidote. Basically felt on-rails. Really disappointed with that aspect of the game.

The cities and locales felt far more inspired in SwSh, though. At least you could go into people's homes. They felt more alive. You could talk to NPCs. S/V just had some boring town maps and you could only walk into shops so you could be led into a menu. Hardly any NPCs that aren't just polygons walking around and glitching out.

I also really don't like the battle screens in S/V. Without the dramatic camera angles, the battles feel so, so dull. Not to mention all the texture clipping and glitches that happen as a result of not transitioning into a battle screen. Graphically, SwSh actually looks far better than S/V, which is embarrassing. SwSh also has one of the most annoying beginnings with Hop and/or other NPCs showing up all the time. I really needed some of these people to stfu. It felt almost Dora the Explorer at times with them pointing out where to go.

I guess S/V had the better story and exploration, but I do give the edge to SwSh in some aspects. It's certainly not rendered completely obsolete or unplayable.

Sword and Shield was the first games I skipped, and the things I've heard about the game doesn't exactly make me regret that decision.

Between that, being slapped in the face with bdsp, and just not feeling motivated to finish Violet, I think I'm done. Though Sun and Moon was probably the start of me losing interest.

(95% I cave and buy the inevitable Black/White remake and I will only have myself to blame.)

Sword and Shield were almost unplayable for me. For the first and only time, I stopped midway through and only finished when the DLC came out because I wanted to play online competitive. The game's plot, content, and pacing actively annoyed me. S/V has a bunch of glitches I don't care about, but probably the best story and characters of any pokemon game (I didn't actively hate it and the end game was... it was good?) and a solid batch of new pokemon. It also added a lot of quality of life things for training good competitive-level pokemon.

Im pretty easy-going with Pokmon. As long as its fun, Im on board, and Ive enjoyed all of the Switch entries in the series. Probably Arceus > SV > SwSh > Lets Go > BDSP, but none are bad.

I will say, however, Game Freak has also gotten significantly lazier with this generation than any other. Plenty of weird, unpolished touches that make me roll my eyes. I never encountered any game breaking kinds of things, but frame rate stability and animation quality of wild Pokmon and NPCs have been noticeably not up to par.

SwSh was so bad that I haven't played SV

Also so bad that I played 120 hours of it

I don't think gamefreak devs are lazy, I think execs have a tight yearly release cycle that affects the quality. When things in SM and SwSh are polished, they're good, but a lot of it looks like they ran out of time

Yeah i think my original rating for this in 2019 was 8/10, but after spending the day reevaluating it, imma drop it to 7/10.

I think omniscientless has the gist of it. This shit is just too linear, easy, and hand-holdy, almost to the point of mindlessness. RPGs in general were on fire by 2019, and theres just no excuse for something as big as Pokemon to be this shoddy

I think as pokemon fans weve tolerated a lot of poop over the years just because its pokemon, but we deserve better than this man. I take a lot of pride in curating my nintendo switch collection, and unfortunately i think sword and shield gotta go

And now im scared for Sun and Moon, but thats gonna have to be a story for another day

And Ushi just enjoy Legends for what it is lol. God knows it could be a lot worse

TomNook7 posted...

God knows it could be a lot worse

I think we saw that last month!

Very solid Pokemon game that gets more hate than it deserves

IX > V > III > VIII > IV > VI > VII > II >>> I

Also Arceus slaps

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also I have never once heard a notable S/V music track, but SwSh had several bops.

This is such an awful take, I'm sorry I have to be so direct, but damn

Anywho SwSh is ass. Like, the gym leaders are probably the best we've ever seen from an aesthetic perspective, but that's the only positive. It gutted so many good features from 3DS, and those wild areas or whatever they're called feel like a tech demo. Shit on SV for its performance all you want (seriously, do it, you should) but at least it felt complete outside of those technical problems. SwSh doesn't really have much vision in any of its ideas. It's such a disappointing game that I nevertheless dumped over 100 hours into because I fucking suck.

SV also has the best soundtrack of the mainline games and it ain't close. Everyone involved was on fire.

I've never once heard an SV track brought up in any capacity so I'll need some examples. I've heard some but can't remember a single one.

And really I can't stress enough that I don't think SwSh is a good game. I don't think Pokemon has had any value as a video game brand since Gen V.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I've never once heard an SV track brought up in any capacity so I'll need some examples.

the literal god tobyfox himself did some SV music

my favorite track: https://youtu.be/zEdsMCnbYB0

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I don't think Pokemon has had any value to me as a video game brand since Gen V.

imagine spending so much time discussing a series you haven't liked in 12 years

just let it go man

Honestly I'm not into how I can instantly tell if toby fox did a track like I can with the postgame battle themes, but I believe he did some other stuff that's good. Didn't he do some stuff in area zero? Basically all the area zero themes, field and battle, are amazing.

My favs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpB5PaQkkQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgEpT-5NBx4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLTJRS5-JzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z9ir-mwmSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydT8EItxKlQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_aGDFAjiss

I actually really liked it, and I only just beated it and am doing the DLC now. Shiny hunting, at that, which is taking a good while...

Yes, it's pathetically easy, but that's Pokemon. If you can find a way to challenge yourself - in my case, it was rotating what grew to a whopping 36 Pokemon to keep levels down and affection low until endgame - then it's a lot of fun. Galar is a very well-constructed region, the music is some of the best in the series (that's saying something!), and there are actually plenty of things to do.

Arceus was even better, though. Haven't gotten to Violet yet.

Arceus > SV > SwSh

Arceus rules, SV has some issues but I like the world, the new Pokemon (Gen 9) and a lot of the story

SwSh is the only mainline game I really am not a fan of tbh