Current Events > No matter how much extra weight you have. YOU ARE NOT FAT.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yazarogi posted...

Whether you carry weight or are fat.... it's still on your body, inside your skin suit. WTF is there to argue here?

How we frame the issue. I have showed how we frame addiction can play a major role in how people can overcome it.

Are you high?

Wrong. If you let something take over your life it can define you.

A person who is addicted to drugs is mostly known a drug addict, because they let it define their life.

If you're 200+ lb overweight you have let your addiction to food completely take over your life. It's the defining characteristic of your existence and until you fix that issue, nobody will see anything else.

Harsh reality is still reality.

UAZaqwert posted...

Wrong. If you let something take over your life it can define you.

A person who is addicted to drugs is mostly known a drug addict, because they let it define their life.

If you're 200+ lb overweight you have let your addiction to food completely take over your life. It's the defining characteristic of your existence and until you fix that issue, nobody will see anything else.

Harsh reality is still reality.

So what takes over you life. What singular treat should we defined you by ?

cjsdowg posted...

So what takes over you life. What singular treat should we defined you by ?

Your horrific addition to food that has gotten so bad that it comes before literally everything else you claim is more important to you? It might not be the single thing that defines you, but its disingenuous to say its the biggest thing that defines you, or the thing that defines you most at that point. At a certain level of obesity, it is THE prevailing characteristic and no amount of nice nice talk is going to change that fact that realistically thats the thing that everyone else IS going to define you by. Its just the harsh reality of reality.

Its kind of like getting to the point of being an actual crackhead. Once everyone knows youre a crackhead, its going to be thing that defines you. Everything else, every interaction, every single thing you do, every single day, is going to be colored and influenced by the fact that youre a crackhead and everyone knows it. It will be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, your most defining characteristic and it matters not how many other good traits you have. The one and only way out of that hell is kick and then your defining trait will be that you used to be a crackhead and you managed to get clean.

It will be a long time before anybody sees you any other way. The same is true of someone whos so big that when you see them the first and only thing on your mind is good lord, theyre gonna die soon. Im not being a dick, Im being one thousand percent realistic about this. You may get to know that person, and really really like them, and even stop judging them, but at the end of the day, the thing youre most going to correlate them to, is overwhelming morbid obesity. If everyone sees you as something, more than anything else, and that thing is true. (For example everyone thinks youre a crackhead because you obviously smoke gratuitous amounts of crack) then it kind of is your defining characteristic. It sucks, but it is what it is.

TLDR: If you smoke a metric shit ton of crack you ARE a crackhead. It doesnt matter how you see it, it still defines you in every way because its the most prevailing characteristic about you, and nobody else is going to look at it another way.

Yazarogi posted...

Are you high?

The dude runs a weight loss topic series and wants people to separate the fat from their perceptions of themselves (their identity so to speak), to create a more receptive mindset and make it easier for them to be more motivated and committed to lose the excess weight. If you imagine yourself as Boogie, you certainly won't imagine yourself running a block. If you envision yourself as David Goggins, the sky's the limit in what you can achieve. Running 100 miles in Death Valley during the middle of the day is nothing to you. Extreme examples but identifying yourself as a dude whose exercise consists of flipping channels on Netflix versus someone who is willing to flip tires and run would have different outcomes in terms of what you're willing to accomplish.

This shit isn't difficult to comprehend.

Guide posted...

I can see why that would be confused, but that hasn't been Hypno's prerogative. That isn't what he's been arguing against. It's the explicit word usage of "fat people aren't fat" that tc was saying, that's the lie. At no point has hypno said that "having fat defines you".

Fat people are fat. TC is trolling by getting people to confuse simple word logic with intent and meaning.

fat people are fat =/= "defines you in the sense that you are [singular derogatory adjective]"

Like you have to have skipped, or weakly skimmed, a lot of hypno's posts to come to the conclusion you're at.

No. Hypno has literally, from their very first post, been saying that cjs is lying to people about their problems. This is blatantly false. You may not like the way cjs is wording the issue, but at no point have they said that heavy people do not carry extra fat, or that it is not a health concern or a problem. You are similarly still confusing cjs's argument if you think that "you may carry extra fat, but you are not defined by it" is a lie, and like Hypno, you are clearly ignoring what cjs is actually saying in favor of nitpicking their word choice and calling them a liar.

Like, you have to have skipped or weakly skimmed cjs's posts to come to the conclusion you're at.

No way do I expect to be the one to make any sense of this for everyone after over 100 posts now, but moreso to clarify for myself what is being said here... This is going in circles and everyone's arguing semantics.

• We aren't advocating an unhealthy lifestyle. This has been made very clear.
• We shouldn't call someone "fat" if they have excess fat, just as we shouldn't call someone who drinks alcohol excessively and irresponsibly an "alcoholic".
• Some see that restriction as walking on eggshells, and tiptoeing around the harmful words - or not acknowledging it at all - is enabling more of the same behavior because it ignores a problem (although one that is usually not for us to prescribe a solution to).
• Others insist that using those words is like kicking people when they're down which may also cause more of the same behavior due to psychological stress (100% true).

I feel like the back and forth here is just a result of both sides being right because there isn't one size that fits all. Generally we can all agree when someone is grossly overweight, but who are any of us to be labeling others or telling people how to live their lives? Some people need the tough love, others believe that's harmful or just not even our place. I, like TC (and I also greatly contributed to the first weight loss social topic), have also been overweight. I made the excuses and I felt the anxiety it caused me, but I found my way out of that hole with the right guidance and enough trial and error.

Weight loss advice is a perfect example of how not every approach works for everyone, and yet if you simplify it enough, it can seem to be that way. "Don't be lazy, just eat right and work out every day!" But that's a monumental task for some people who don't know how to muster the willpower to do so. I think one of the reasons it worked for me was that I spent years inching in the right direction until I finally found a guy on YouTube who made it all make sense to me. There's a saying, "when the student is ready the teacher will appear." Sometimes people need to try things their way and figure out what doesn't work on their own before they're ready to accept help, even subconsciously. But I digress.

TC's heart is in the right place of course, but I believe he's trying to make a very nuanced point to a pedantic group of cynics.

LoveLikeJazz posted...

No way do I expect to be the one to make any sense of this for everyone after over 100 posts now, but moreso to clarify for myself what is being said here... This is going in circles and everyone's arguing semantics.

* We aren't advocating an unhealthy lifestyle. This has been made very clear.
* We shouldn't call someone "fat" if they have excess fat, just as we shouldn't call someone who drinks alcohol excessively and irresponsibly an "alcoholic".
* Some see that restriction as walking on eggshells, and tiptoeing around the harmful words - or not acknowledging it at all - is enabling more of the same behavior because it ignores a problem (although one that is usually not for us to prescribe a solution to).
* Others insist that using those words is like kicking people when they're down which may also cause more of the same behavior due to psychological stress (100% true).
I feel like the back and forth here is just a result of both sides being right because there isn't one size that fits all. Generally we can all agree when someone is grossly overweight, but who are any of us to be labeling others or telling people how to live their lives? Some people need the tough love, others believe that's harmful or just not even our place. I, like TC (and I also greatly contributed to the first weight loss social topic), have also been overweight. I made the excuses and I felt the anxiety it caused me, but I found my way out of that hole with the right guidance and enough trial and error.

Weight loss advice is a perfect example of how not every approach works for everyone, and yet if you simplify it enough, it can seem to be that way. "Don't be lazy, just eat right and work out every day!" But that's a monumental task for some people who don't know how to muster the willpower to do so. I think one of the reasons it worked for me was that I spent years inching in the right direction until I finally found a guy on YouTube who made it all make sense to me. There's a saying, "when the student is ready the teacher will appear." Sometimes people need to try things their way and figure out what doesn't work on their own before they're ready to accept help, even subconsciously. But I digress.

TC's heart is in the right place of course, but I believe he's trying to make a very nuanced point to a pedantic group of cynics.

I think most here get his point. We just don't agree with the message as a whole.

We don't agree its helpful to not acknowledge morbidly obese people as obese. Just like in the arguments of those that don't agree with the TC, we agree its not necessary to antagonize those who are obese either.

But again where we don't agree is the idea that saying someone by definition is obese, that it's inherently malicious. We are making a nuanced point as well, we just don't see eye to eye.

I really despise the holier then thou attitudes CJ and his little buddies have been shitting through not only on this thread but many others they run.

Youre all delusional.

LightningThief posted...

I think most here get his point. We just don't agree with the message as a whole.

We don't agree its helpful to pretend morbidly obese people aren't obese. Just like in the arguments of those that don't agree with the TC, we agree its not necessary to antagonize those who are obese.

But again where we don't agree is the idea that saying someone by definition is obese, that it's inherently malicious. We are making a nuanced point as well, we just don't see eye to eye.

That's what I'm saying. I think both sides are right in their own way. So it really is an "agree to disagree" type of thing.

Yazarogi posted...

I really despise the holier then thou attitudes CJ and his little packets have been shitting through not only on this thread but many others they run.

Youre all delusional.

What do you mean?

Yazarogi posted...

I really despise the holier then thou attitudes CJ and his little buddies have been shitting through not only on this thread but many others they run.

Holier than thou? because I don't think you should frame people by their disorder, something that I have support with viewpoints of literal psychologists.

I think you are dishonest and literally just a troll.

Yazarogi posted...

I think you are dishonest and literally just a troll.

I haven't had much direct interaction with TC. I don't mean to defend him or speak for him or anything like that. I certainly don't follow him around co-signing everything he says, I've seen a lot of his posts and I don't get this at all.

Maybe a misunderstanding.

Yazarogi posted...

I think you are dishonest and literally just a troll.

Since I have supported my stance with science. So that says more about you then it says about me.

You havent supported anything. You are just here to cause problems.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It's literally not constructive. Fat is fat. But acknowledging that something is reality can lead to you changing it (if you want)

Yazarogi posted...

You havent supported anything. You are just here to cause problems.

I have literally linked too souces addressing they way we talk about these issues.

OP please dont become a doctor

pretzelcoatl posted...

It's literally not constructive. Fat is fat. But acknowledging that something is reality can lead to you changing it (if you want)

I'm making assumptions here but this is much easier to say if you've never been overweight, or if you are overweight and have no interest in losing it for whatever reason.

It's like, I've never smoked or drank a day in my life but I always catch myself thinking "why can't you literally just quit cold turkey?" before I realize "right... it's not that easy for everybody." It's a crutch for sure, just like food can be. Some people eat to live, others live to eat. Eating is emotional. Take that away from someone who feels it's the only thing they have to look forward to, and you've made that person so depressed they're bound to fail.

Not to go on a tangent, but honestly most people think they have to deprive themselves by going on a restrictive diet. They often don't realize they can (and should) eat quite a lot, as long as they eat nutritious foods and generally stay away from sugary, fried, processed foods. It's all so much simpler than it's made out to be, and the same can be said about exercise. How much to do, what do to, and why. But doing the initial homework is frustrating for people because of all the different advice out there. Everybody saying "this doesn't work, do this", pulling people trying to find the answer in all different directions, instead of "this doesn't work for me because ______ , try this instead". People need to identify with someone who has figured it out so that they can figure it out themselves.

Same can be said about tough love vs. coddling when it comes to calling someone fat or simply overweight.

if you fat you fat its pretty simple

pepper2012 posted...

if you fat you fat its pretty simple

But this is oversimplifying it lol and missing the point.

I think it would be interesting to see the weight stats (including weight history) for those who agree/disagree with the point of this topic.

Let's just say you're unhealthy.

pepper2012 posted...

OP please dont become a doctor

Funny you bring that up. The e American Medical Association agrees with my stance.

Use people-first language for obesity.
Language matters. Lets not use stigmatizing language to describe a disease that is already heavily stigmatized in our society. In 2017, the American Medical Association took the bold stance of promoting people-first language for obesity, urging the use of terms like unhealthy weight and the elimination of such stigmatizing terms as fat, obese, or morbidly obese.

https://tinyurl.com/yc7k2xee

It is funny. I come with message positive and nothing else . An I met with insults, people calling me fucking liar, good lord .

cjsdowg posted...

Funny you bring that up. The e American Medical Association agrees with my stance.

Use people-first language for obesity.
Language matters. Lets not use stigmatizing language to describe a disease that is already heavily stigmatized in our society. In 2017, the American Medical Association took the bold stance of promoting people-first language for obesity, urging the use of terms like unhealthy weight and the elimination of such stigmatizing terms as fat, obese, or morbidly obese.

https://tinyurl.com/yc7k2xee

It is funny. I come with message positive and nothing else . An I met with insults, people calling me fucking liar, good lord .

they are now choosing to change the terms because it clearly hurts people feelings is all

pepper2012 posted...

they are now choosing to change the terms because it clearly hurts people feelings is all

Exactly

fat
3 of 3
noun

4
: OBESITY
5
: something in excess : SUPERFLUITY
trim the fat from the news operation

LoveLikeJazz posted...

But this is oversimplifying it lol and missing the point.

I think it would be interesting to see the weight stats (including weight history) for those who agree/disagree with the point of this topic.

The thing is, I don't think anyone here is saying you should walk up to someone obese and call them fat to their face for no apparent reason.

The issue people have with the TCs argument is the idea that we shouldn't define them as fat or obese. Essentially the mindset of going into denial and bargaining with reality. A person by definition being obese =/= "Hey guys, walk up to someone obese and refer to them as obese for no reason!!"

So back to an obese person being by definition obese. There comes a point where being overly "positive" is seeking out victim hood, ignoring reality, and doing more harm than good which is where those who disagree, stand.

pepper2012 posted...

they are now choosing to change the terms because it clearly hurts people feelings is all

No it studies show this stuff hurts people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

So I can't remember if it was a movie or an interview or what, but I heard a story.

A guy is talking about when he was in drug rehab. Another guy comes to him and asks, "So what's your problem?" First guy says, "Well, I'm a drug addict." Other guy goes, "No, that's how you tried to medicate your problem. So what's your problem?"

The guy then says reframing addiction from being something he was to an escape from his real problems helped him kick drugs for good.

Reframing fat from something you are to a problem you have can potentially help a lot of people. Maybe you're not among those people. Fine. But what good is it to try and stop people from going down that route?

LightningThief posted...

The thing is, I don't think anyone here is saying you should walk up to someone obese and call them fat to their face for no apparent reason.

The issue people have with the TCs argument is the idea that we shouldn't define them as fat or obese. Essentially the mindset of going into denial and bargaining with reality. A person by definition being obese =/= "Hey guys, walk up to someone obese and refer to them as obese for no reason!!"

So back to an obese person being by definition obese. There comes a point where being overly "positive" is seeking out victim hood, ignoring reality, and doing more harm than good which is where those who disagree, stand.

I agree with that too. Depends on the personality of the overweight person which approach would be necessary. Tough love vs coddling, etc.

Daremo posted...

So I can't remember if it was a movie or an interview or what, but I heard a story.

A guy is talking about when he was in drug rehab. Another guy comes to him and asks, "So what's your problem?" First guy says, "Well, I'm a drug addict." Other guy goes, "No, that's how you tried to medicate your problem. So what's your problem?"

The guy then says reframing addiction from being something he was to an escape from his real problems helped him kick drugs for good.

Reframing fat from something you are to a problem you have can potentially help a lot of people. Maybe you're not among those people. Fine. But what good is it to try and stop people from going down that route?

Your post brings up a great point. Over and over I have seen people in this topic not understand that. Most who are carrying more weight didn't get that way just because they like to eat. There is something behind it. And over and over people show that they don't understand that.

No Mr.Police I'm not drunk I just have 24 pack of beer in my tummy it's not the same!!!

cjsdowg posted...

No it studies show this stuff hurts people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

this talks about stigma and discrimination.
im not advocating any discrimination of any kind, however saying someone is fat when they are fat is an observation

pepper2012 posted...

this talks about stigma

Like the stigma of calling someone fat. Which I have pointed out via the American Medical Association.

pepper2012 posted...

im not advocating any discrimination of any kind, however saying someone is fat when they are fat is an observation

But you do understand that people also use it in the pejorative? And that even if you mean it as a neutral observation that some people are still going to hear it as a pejorative?

You can only control what you say, not what they hear.

So what is the precise benefit in saying, "You are fat and unhealthy.", over "You have a lot of fat, and that's unhealthy.", when you know there is the possibility the listener may take the first statement as a personal belittlement, and it is more difficult to perceive the second statement the same way?

Daremo posted...

You can only control what you say, not what they hear.

You can definitely control what you hear in a sense of twisting someone's words to be something that it isnt.

First off, lets talk about the blatant disrespect. I posted something positive, and what did I get in return? Attacks, insults, and accusations. I've remained civil and respectful in my responses, but the abuse keeps coming.

Now, let me be explicit: I am not lying. My message isn't about denying reality; it's about promoting respect and compassion. Ive backed my stance with input from psychologists and medical professionals this isn't just my opinion; it's evidence-based.

To those who believe that hurling insults is a valid weight loss strategy: Seriously? Do you honestly think calling someone "fat" is the magic bullet for shedding pounds? If it were that easy, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Fat-shaming doesn't motivate it destroys self-esteem and perpetuates harmful stereotypes.Do you think people haven't been called fat all their lives. Oh well since they are still carrying that extra weight it doesn't look like it fucking worked for them.

For those who insist on reducing individuals to a number on a scale: Wake up. Weight does not define a person's worth. If you can't contribute positively then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your approach.

About 4 or 5 months ago, I created the Weight Loss Sociala space on this message board dedicated to discussing weight loss in a positive and uplifting manner. The core message I've been promoting is simple yet important: regardless of the numbers on the scale, the individuals behind those numbers are human beings who deserve respect and understanding.

Let's draw a parallel here. When someone has the flu, we don't label them as "the flu." We recognize that it's an illness that can be treated and overcome. Similarly, with the right support and treatment, issues related to weight can also be managed and improved.

Contrary to what some may believe, calling people names or labeling them as "fat" is not a magical solution to weight loss. I've personally put in the effort and dedication, fueled by the encouragement of others who selflessly supported me along the way. And let me tell you, that kind of support is far more powerful than any insult thrown around.

The Weight Loss Social isn't just about shedding poundsit's about embracing a journey of self-improvement and empowerment. It's about lifting each other up, celebrating victories, and supporting one another through challenges.

And to those who persist in negativity: This isn't the place for it. Respect is non-negotiable. And to those who have walked this path with me, thank you for your unwavering support. Together, we're proving that kindness and determination can truly make a difference.

Daremo posted...

But you do understand that people also use it in the pejorative? And that even if you mean it as a neutral observation that some people are still going to hear it as a pejorative?

You can only control what you say, not what they hear.

So what is the precise benefit in saying, "You are fat and unhealthy.", over "You have a lot of fat, and that's unhealthy.", when you know there is the possibility the listener may take the first statement as a personal belittlement, and it is more difficult to perceive the second statement the same way?

You can definitely control what you hear in a sense of twisting someone's words to be something that it isn't. Essentially those ignoring context to act like someone was attacked.

The examples you gave are great examples to that. Taking something as a personal attack =/= it actually was. As there are definitely those who make it their mission to ignore context be a victim no matter what, or find victims no matter what to deflect. Context be damned.

Speaking of context, it needs to be clarified again that no one is advocating of just walking up to people and calling them fat for no reason.

cjsdowg posted...

First off, lets talk about the blatant disrespect. I posted something positive, and what did I get in return? Attacks, insults, and accusations. I've remained civil and respectful in my responses, but the abuse keeps coming.

Now, let me be explicit: I am not lying. My message isn't about denying reality; it's about promoting respect and compassion. Ive backed my stance with input from psychologists and medical professionals this isn't just my opinion; it's evidence-based.

To those who believe that hurling insults is a valid weight loss strategy: Seriously? Do you honestly think calling someone "fat" is the magic bullet for shedding pounds? If it were that easy, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Fat-shaming doesn't motivate it destroys self-esteem and perpetuates harmful stereotypes.Do you think people haven't been called fat all their lives. Oh well since they are still carrying that extra weight it doesn't look like it fucking worked for them.

For those who insist on reducing individuals to a number on a scale: Wake up. Weight does not define a person's worth. If you can't contribute positively then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your approach.

About 4 or 5 months ago, I created the Weight Loss Sociala space on this message board dedicated to discussing weight loss in a positive and uplifting manner. The core message I've been promoting is simple yet important: regardless of the numbers on the scale, the individuals behind those numbers are human beings who deserve respect and understanding.

Let's draw a parallel here. When someone has the flu, we don't label them as "the flu." We recognize that it's an illness that can be treated and overcome. Similarly, with the right support and treatment, issues related to weight can also be managed and improved.

Contrary to what some may believe, calling people names or labeling them as "fat" is not a magical solution to weight loss. I've personally put in the effort and dedication, fueled by the encouragement of others who selflessly supported me along the way. And let me tell you, that kind of support is far more powerful than any insult thrown around.

The Weight Loss Social isn't just about shedding poundsit's about embracing a journey of self-improvement and empowerment. It's about lifting each other up, celebrating victories, and supporting one another through challenges.

And to those who persist in negativity: This isn't the place for it. Respect is non-negotiable. And to those who have walked this path with me, thank you for your unwavering support. Together, we're proving that kindness and determination can truly make a difference.

cjsdowg posted...

First off, lets talk about the blatant disrespect. I posted something positive, and what did I get in return? Attacks, insults, and accusations. I've remained civil and respectful in my responses, but the abuse keeps coming.

Now, let me be explicit: I am not lying. My message isn't about denying reality; it's about promoting respect and compassion. Ive backed my stance with input from psychologists and medical professionals this isn't just my opinion; it's evidence-based.

To those who believe that hurling insults is a valid weight loss strategy: Seriously? Do you honestly think calling someone "fat" is the magic bullet for shedding pounds? If it were that easy, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Fat-shaming doesn't motivate it destroys self-esteem and perpetuates harmful stereotypes.Do you think people haven't been called fat all their lives. Oh well since they are still carrying that extra weight it doesn't look like it fucking worked for them.

For those who insist on reducing individuals to a number on a scale: Wake up. Weight does not define a person's worth. If you can't contribute positively then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your approach.

About 4 or 5 months ago, I created the Weight Loss Sociala space on this message board dedicated to discussing weight loss in a positive and uplifting manner. The core message I've been promoting is simple yet important: regardless of the numbers on the scale, the individuals behind those numbers are human beings who deserve respect and understanding.

Let's draw a parallel here. When someone has the flu, we don't label them as "the flu." We recognize that it's an illness that can be treated and overcome. Similarly, with the right support and treatment, issues related to weight can also be managed and improved.

Contrary to what some may believe, calling people names or labeling them as "fat" is not a magical solution to weight loss. I've personally put in the effort and dedication, fueled by the encouragement of others who selflessly supported me along the way. And let me tell you, that kind of support is far more powerful than any insult thrown around.

The Weight Loss Social isn't just about shedding poundsit's about embracing a journey of self-improvement and empowerment. It's about lifting each other up, celebrating victories, and supporting one another through challenges.

And to those who persist in negativity: This isn't the place for it. Respect is non-negotiable. And to those who have walked this path with me, thank you for your unwavering support. Together, we're proving that kindness and determination can truly make a difference.

There's nothing positive about trying to change word definitions.

Revelation34 posted...

There's nothing positive about trying to change word definitions.

Did you go this hard when we stop using the R word.

pepper2012 posted...

they are now choosing to change the terms because it clearly hurts people feelings is all

And? Choosing a more positive approach demonstrably improves results. So even with your insulting framing of the issue, "changing the terms because it hurts peoples feelings" ultimately results in those people doing better. Then here you are, apparently arguing that we continue to "hurt peoples feelings," which has an objective negative impact on their efforts to improve their lifestyle. Do you care about results, or do you care about being able to "hurt peoples feelings?"

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No, the entire premise of your argument has been that cjs is "lying" when he says people have fat rather than are fat.

Revelation34 posted...

There's nothing positive about trying to change word definitions.

Language is constantly evolving. What's your point?

Personally, I find it very interesting that the citations from AMA have been ignored, except to complain about not being able to insult people. It's almost like I called it with my first post itt.

Daremo posted...

But you do understand that people also use it in the pejorative? And that even if you mean it as a neutral observation that some people are still going to hear it as a pejorative?

You can only control what you say, not what they hear.

So what is the precise benefit in saying, "You are fat and unhealthy.", over "You have a lot of fat, and that's unhealthy.", when you know there is the possibility the listener may take the first statement as a personal belittlement, and it is more difficult to perceive the second statement the same way?

Well said

TheOtherMike posted...

No, the entire premise of your argument has been that cjs is "lying" when he says people have fat rather than are fat.

Ffs, no. Its lying to say You are not fat. Which tc says verbatim.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Ffs, no. Its lying to say You are not fat. Which tc says verbatim.

Try reading the op and applying that context to the sentence "you are not fat." I refuse to believe you or anyone else on a text-based message board are this illiterate.

And ffs, yes. Hypno has literally been arguing that cjs is "lying to people about their problems," despite cjs openly acknowledging that having excess fat is a problem that said people have.

cjsdowg posted...

For me it seems like when people see themselves as just the fat guy it makes he harder to lose weight. It makes it harder to do so many things because they connect with that idea of being the fat guy. ( I got have lost some pounds) not on your level so I am also speaking for my journey and not trying to take thing away from yours . It is odd that we see the same thing and come out with different points of view. (not suggesting you are wrong in any way).

I didn't see myself as just that prior to weight loss though. I had very little self-awareness or emotional maturity and was a very impulsive, reactionary creature, for the lack of a better term.

Becoming the "funny fat guy" was not a conscious choice but a defense mechanism based on how I was treated. I was around 10 when I learned I could ingratiate myself to people that way and quickly centered my entire personality around it with all the maturity and foresight someone of that age can possess.

I lost weight because my health plummeted and I didn't really have a choice. I was going to die because of my weight. Once I proved capable of controlling it and losing a lot of fat, all of this started to become apparent. If I never lost weight, I don't think I ever would have realized any of it. It's hard to explain because it is a little counterintuitive, I guess.

But yeah, there's a lot of variation in how all of this is experienced, as with anything in life.

LightningThief posted...

You can definitely control what you hear in a sense of twisting someone's words to be something that it isn't. Essentially those ignoring context to act like someone was attacked.

The examples you gave are great examples to that. Taking something as a personal attack =/= it actually was. As there are definitely those who make it their mission to ignore context be a victim no matter what, or find victims no matter what to deflect. Context be damned.

Speaking of context, it needs to be clarified again that no one is advocating of just walking up to people and calling them fat for no reason.

You've kind of gone around my point there.

What is the benefit in saying, "You are fat and unhealthy.", over "You have an excess of fat, and that's unhealthy."?

Slayer2111 posted...

Your horrific addition to food that has gotten so bad that it comes before literally everything else you claim is more important to you? It might not be the single thing that defines you, but its disingenuous to say its the biggest thing that defines you, or the thing that defines you most at that point. At a certain level of obesity, it is THE prevailing characteristic and no amount of nice nice talk is going to change that fact that realistically thats the thing that everyone else IS going to define you by. Its just the harsh reality of reality.

Its kind of like getting to the point of being an actual crackhead. Once everyone knows youre a crackhead, its going to be thing that defines you. Everything else, every interaction, every single thing you do, every single day, is going to be colored and influenced by the fact that youre a crackhead and everyone knows it. It will be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, your most defining characteristic and it matters not how many other good traits you have. The one and only way out of that hell is kick and then your defining trait will be that you used to be a crackhead and you managed to get clean.

It will be a long time before anybody sees you any other way. The same is true of someone whos so big that when you see them the first and only thing on your mind is good lord, theyre gonna die soon. Im not being a dick, Im being one thousand percent realistic about this. You may get to know that person, and really really like them, and even stop judging them, but at the end of the day, the thing youre most going to correlate them to, is overwhelming morbid obesity. If everyone sees you as something, more than anything else, and that thing is true. (For example everyone thinks youre a crackhead because you obviously smoke gratuitous amounts of crack) then it kind of is your defining characteristic. It sucks, but it is what it is.

TLDR: If you smoke a metric shit ton of crack you ARE a crackhead. It doesnt matter how you see it, it still defines you in every way because its the most prevailing characteristic about you, and nobody else is going to look at it another way.

I feel like this post got lost in the shuffle. Also the whole r word argument cements that hes a troll, though its pretty clear he is.

Slayer2111 posted...

I feel like this post got lost in the shuffle. Also the whole r word argument cements that hes a troll, though its pretty clear he is.

Nothing was lost , you post show an Incredible lack of understanding of the topic and honestly goes a long way to prove my point. More over calling the only person here to support their stance with medical professionals is kind of bold move.