Current Events > Why does Bethesda have such a hard on for the brotherhood of steel? (spoilers)

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pres_madagascar 07/09/19 10:31:17 PM #1:	It's like they make them their favorites because they're the most like a stereotypical military/space marine type faction and thus are the easiest for them to turn into "the good guys". Even in fallout 4, as much of a colossal dick as maxson is, the brotherhood is still the only really logical choice in the game. The railroad are single minded and siding exclusively with them is fuckin stupid(the minuteman ending, where you ally with the railroad, makes much more sense). What are they going to do after the institute is gone and their synth saving services are no longer needed? You think they're just gonna stop playing secret agent? No. You know damn well they'd likely end up playing around with human politics and stuff after that. The minutemen are fine, but based on the quincy incident, they're obviously easily corrupted and broken. The minutemen and railroad are susceptible to the same problems. The institute is a solid choice if you're trying to be an evil or amoral character. Siding with them effectively changes nothing in the Commonwealth. Siding with the institute is basically maintaining the existing status quo. The brotherhood, as selfish as they are, would actually benefit the Commonwealth, as after the institute is defeated, they even say now they're going to go after the super mutants and feral ghouls, of which there are tons in the Commonwealth. Plus you can go for the minutemen too and essentially make the most stable and secure outcome. I don't get why Bethesda ignored all lore of the brotherhood and turned them into heroes and liberators, and have them be the only viable choice in FO4, and damn near saints in Fo3. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924475980] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>It's like they make them their favorites because they're the most like a stereotypical military/space marine type faction and thus are the easiest for them to turn into "the good guys". Even in fallout 4, as much of a colossal dick as maxson is, the brotherhood is still the only really logical choice in the game. The railroad are single minded and siding exclusively with them is fuckin stupid(the minuteman ending, where you ally with the railroad, makes much more sense). What are they going to do after the institute is gone and their synth saving services are no longer needed? You think they're just gonna stop playing secret agent? No. You know damn well they'd likely end up playing around with human politics and stuff after that. The minutemen are fine, but based on the quincy incident, they're obviously easily corrupted and broken. The minutemen and railroad are susceptible to the same problems. The institute is a solid choice if you're trying to be an evil or amoral character. Siding with them effectively changes nothing in the Commonwealth. Siding with the institute is basically maintaining the existing status quo. The brotherhood, as selfish as they are, would actually benefit the Commonwealth, as after the institute is defeated, they even say now they're going to go after the super mutants and feral ghouls, of which there are tons in the Commonwealth. Plus you can go for the minutemen too and essentially make the most stable and secure outcome. I don't get why Bethesda ignored all lore of the brotherhood and turned them into heroes and liberators, and have them be the only viable choice in FO4, and damn near saints in Fo3.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 07/09/19 10:33:58 PM #2:	We're Tunnel snakes --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:924476116] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>We're Tunnel snakes</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathDeathSong 07/09/19 10:37:26 PM #3:	ncr for life baby --- MY HEARTS GO OUT TO ALL YOU SINNERS!! Let me tell you about Deltarune https://i.imgtc.com/dcuHj3G.gif <cite>DeathDeathSong posted [p:924476246] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>ncr for life baby</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarthAragorn 07/09/19 10:38:07 PM #4:	Yeah the brotherhood are supposed to be dicks --- A thousand eyes, and one. <cite>DarthAragorn posted [p:924476279] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Yeah the brotherhood are supposed to be dicks</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vicious_Dios 07/09/19 10:38:48 PM #5:	True to Caesar! --- S / K / Y / N / E Twitch/YouTube/GT: *Adzeta* <cite>Vicious_Dios posted [p:924476316] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>True to Caesar!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordRazziel 07/09/19 10:41:05 PM #6:	They arent hero's, the make it pretty clear. --- https://i.imgtc.com/xg91pMF.gif https://i.imgtc.com/YvvIsuz.gif. On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion. <cite>LordRazziel posted [p:924476413] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>They arent hero's, the make it pretty clear.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Guns_of_Verdun 07/09/19 10:47:02 PM #7:	it's really only fallout 3 where they are the good guys. and that was only because they splintered off from the goals of the real brotherhood. they are pretty morally evil in all the other fallout games, they just "aren't as bad" as the villains. not being "as bad" as the super mutants, enclave, leigon and father isn't a high moral ground. they want to go to into a barren struggling world, steal all the technology they can find, they just keep it stored in a giant hole while they massacre anything that's non human, including sentient robots, androids, ghouls and mutants. i mean don't forget that implied that they took out rivet city just to make the prydwen. the bos is pretty much a cult being mad that they are "good guys" because they have some pros that moral idealist factions might not have seems like an odd complaint to me. immoral realists with dodgy intentions will have benefits that moral idealists with no real goal or resources won't have. doesn't make the bos good. keep in mind that when they "fight supermutants in the commonwealth." they wouldn't hesitate adding hancock, nick, marcus, ~~danse~~ curie etc too that list. they are nazis. --- https://imgur.com/VwJsmAR <cite>Guns_of_Verdun posted [p:924476652] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>it's really only fallout 3 where they are the good guys. and that was only because they splintered off from the goals of the real brotherhood. they are pretty morally evil in all the other fallout games, they just "aren't as bad" as the villains. not being "as bad" as the super mutants, enclave, leigon and father isn't a high moral ground. they want to go to into a barren struggling world, steal all the technology they can find, they just keep it stored in a giant hole while they massacre anything that's non human, including sentient robots, androids, ghouls and mutants. i mean don't forget that implied that they took out rivet city just to make the prydwen. the bos is pretty much a cult being mad that they are "good guys" because they have some pros that moral idealist factions might not have seems like an odd complaint to me. immoral realists with dodgy intentions will have benefits that moral idealists with no real goal or resources won't have. doesn't make the bos good. keep in mind that when they "fight supermutants in the commonwealth." they wouldn't hesitate adding hancock, nick, marcus, danse curie etc too that list. they are nazis.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/09/19 10:57:46 PM #8:	LordRazziel posted... They arent hero's, the make it pretty clear. Bethesda paints them as such, particularly in fo3, but even in 4, they're basically the military. Also, we approach things with our world's logic. Synths are a legit threat. DarthAragorn posted... Yeah the brotherhood are supposed to be dicks Exactly. They're supposed to be selfish pricks. DeathDeathSong posted... ncr for life baby Amen --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924477057] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>LordRazziel posted...</cite> <quote>They arent hero's, the make it pretty clear.</quote> Bethesda paints them as such, particularly in fo3, but even in 4, they're basically the military. Also, we approach things with our world's logic. Synths are a legit threat. <cite>DarthAragorn posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah the brotherhood are supposed to be dicks</quote> Exactly. They're supposed to be selfish pricks. <cite>DeathDeathSong posted...</cite> <quote>ncr for life baby</quote> Amen</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/09/19 11:02:36 PM #9:	Guns_of_Verdun posted... it's really only fallout 3 where they are the good guys. and that was only because they splintered off from the goals of the real brotherhood. they are pretty morally evil in all the other fallout games, they just "aren't as bad" as the villains. not being "as bad" as the super mutants, enclave, leigon and father isn't a high moral ground. they want to go to into a barren struggling world, steal all the technology they can find, they just keep it stored in a giant hole while they massacre anything that's non human, including sentient robots, androids, ghouls and mutants. i mean don't forget that implied that they took out rivet city just to make the prydwen. the bos is pretty much a cult being mad that they are "good guys" because they have some pros that moral idealist factions might not have seems like an odd complaint to me. immoral realists with dodgy intentions will have benefits that moral idealists with no real goal or resources won't have. doesn't make the bos good. keep in mind that when they "fight supermutants in the commonwealth." they wouldn't hesitate adding hancock, nick, marcus, ~~danse~~ curie etc too that list. they are nazis. The BoS in fo3/FO4 is very, very similar to the US military. In fo1/fo2 they are the evil techno Cult you mentioned. Don't you find it funny that in FO4, both of the morally good factions are easily corrupted and largely ineffective? The ncr and Caesars legion are not that terribly far from the Commonwealth as of FO4, and there's no way they wouldn't annex the Commonwealth when they get there. It's pretty obvious Bethesda seems to want some kind of war between the east coast brotherhood and the NCR. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924477220] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>Guns_of_Verdun posted...</cite> <quote>it's really only fallout 3 where they are the good guys. and that was only because they splintered off from the goals of the real brotherhood. they are pretty morally evil in all the other fallout games, they just "aren't as bad" as the villains. not being "as bad" as the super mutants, enclave, leigon and father isn't a high moral ground. they want to go to into a barren struggling world, steal all the technology they can find, they just keep it stored in a giant hole while they massacre anything that's non human, including sentient robots, androids, ghouls and mutants. i mean don't forget that implied that they took out rivet city just to make the prydwen. the bos is pretty much a cult being mad that they are "good guys" because they have some pros that moral idealist factions might not have seems like an odd complaint to me. immoral realists with dodgy intentions will have benefits that moral idealists with no real goal or resources won't have. doesn't make the bos good. keep in mind that when they "fight supermutants in the commonwealth." they wouldn't hesitate adding hancock, nick, marcus, danse curie etc too that list. they are nazis.</quote> The BoS in fo3/FO4 is very, very similar to the US military. In fo1/fo2 they are the evil techno Cult you mentioned. Don't you find it funny that in FO4, both of the morally good factions are easily corrupted and largely ineffective? The ncr and Caesars legion are not that terribly far from the Commonwealth as of FO4, and there's no way they wouldn't annex the Commonwealth when they get there. It's pretty obvious Bethesda seems to want some kind of war between the east coast brotherhood and the NCR.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IHeartRadiation 07/09/19 11:10:18 PM #10:	pres_madagascar posted... The institute is a solid choice if you're trying to be an evil or amoral character. Siding with them effectively changes nothing in the Commonwealth. Siding with the institute is basically maintaining the existing status quo. Maybe if they weren't unintentionally made into useless psychopathic idiots they'd be more popular. --- I don't get it either. <cite>IHeartRadiation posted [p:924477500] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> The institute is a solid choice if you're trying to be an evil or amoral character. Siding with them effectively changes nothing in the Commonwealth. Siding with the institute is basically maintaining the existing status quo. </quote> Maybe if they weren't unintentionally made into useless psychopathic idiots they'd be more popular.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Guns_of_Verdun 07/09/19 11:12:33 PM #11:	pres_madagascar posted... Don't you find it funny that in FO4, both of the morally good factions are easily corrupted and largely ineffective? no not really? railroad are ineffective because they are underground and supporting a minority no one likes while being constantly targeted by a more powerful larger faction at all ends. and minutemen are only as strong as the land since its a milita. it makes complete sense that they are "less effective" than a now centuries old nationally spanning technocult and the smartest and most advanced men in the nation who can create super-powered andoids at whim. the game plot would make no sense if the railroad were a military force to be reckoned with. of all the complaints about fallout 4's plot, this one seems like the odd one to take. pres_madagascar posted... The BoS in fo3/FO4 is very, very similar to the US military. the us military are not nazis who waltz into places, kill indiscriminately, steal everything and horde it because the have decided no one else has the right to own it. your view of "military" seems to be "they have ranks, dicipline and say sir a lot." which is true of all fallout games --- https://imgur.com/VwJsmAR <cite>Guns_of_Verdun posted [p:924477584] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> Don't you find it funny that in FO4, both of the morally good factions are easily corrupted and largely ineffective?</quote> no not really? railroad are ineffective because they are underground and supporting a minority no one likes while being constantly targeted by a more powerful larger faction at all ends. and minutemen are only as strong as the land since its a milita. it makes complete sense that they are "less effective" than a now centuries old nationally spanning technocult and the smartest and most advanced men in the nation who can create super-powered andoids at whim. the game plot would make no sense if the railroad were a military force to be reckoned with. of all the complaints about fallout 4's plot, this one seems like the odd one to take. <cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> The BoS in fo3/FO4 is very, very similar to the US military. </quote> the us military are not nazis who waltz into places, kill indiscriminately, steal everything and horde it because the have decided no one else has the right to own it. your view of "military" seems to be "they have ranks, dicipline and say sir a lot." which is true of all fallout games</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Frolex 07/09/19 11:13:38 PM #12:	pres_madagascar posted... Even in fallout 4, as much of a colossal dick as maxson is, the brotherhood is still the only really logical choice in the game. I mean I guess "logical" is one word people could describe nazis with --- https://imgur.com/HOLHd4k https://imgur.com/six2WTN <cite>Frolex posted [p:924477623] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote>Even in fallout 4, as much of a colossal dick as maxson is, the brotherhood is still the only really logical choice in the game. </quote> I mean I guess "logical" is one word people could describe nazis with</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hicks233 07/09/19 11:25:40 PM #13:	pres_madagascar posted... I don't get why Bethesda ignored all lore of the brotherhood and turned them into heroes and liberators, and have them be the only viable choice in FO4, and damn near saints in Fo3. Because Bethesda are lazy. They've been making either Elder Scrolls, or Elder Scrolls with guns for years now. They're big enough to stagnate without risk of failing - Fallout 76 would have ended a lot of studios. As it stands, Bethesda/Zenimax can even survive a turd like that. Expecting them to not spunk away the opportunities provided by Fallout 1/2/Tactics to build on would be more incredible. --- http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=9458 So says Mr. Stewart. <cite>Hicks233 posted [p:924478063] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> I don't get why Bethesda ignored all lore of the brotherhood and turned them into heroes and liberators, and have them be the only viable choice in FO4, and damn near saints in Fo3.</quote> Because Bethesda are lazy. They've been making either Elder Scrolls, or Elder Scrolls with guns for years now. They're big enough to stagnate without risk of failing - Fallout 76 would have ended a lot of studios. As it stands, Bethesda/Zenimax can even survive a turd like that. Expecting them to not spunk away the opportunities provided by Fallout 1/2/Tactics to build on would be more incredible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Southernfatman 07/09/19 11:26:52 PM #14:	They're just raiders with better tech and discipline. I usually wipe them out in every game. --- https://imgur.com/hslUvRN When I sin I sin real good. <cite>Southernfatman posted [p:924478102] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>They're just raiders with better tech and discipline. I usually wipe them out in every game.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordRazziel 07/09/19 11:28:18 PM #15:	pres_madagascar posted... LordRazziel posted... They arent hero's, the make it pretty clear. Bethesda paints them as such, particularly in fo3, but even in 4, they're basically the military. Also, we approach things with our world's logic. Synths are a legit threat. DarthAragorn posted... Yeah the brotherhood are supposed to be dicks Exactly. They're supposed to be selfish pricks. DeathDeathSong posted... ncr for life baby Amen They are all for just killing settlers to gain territory, in 4. They want to kill ghouls, even if they're good people. Super mutants can be good, too. They're xenophobic zealots. Definitely not the good guys. --- https://i.imgtc.com/xg91pMF.gif https://i.imgtc.com/YvvIsuz.gif. On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion. <cite>LordRazziel posted [p:924478150] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>LordRazziel posted...</cite> <quote>They arent hero's, the make it pretty clear.</quote> Bethesda paints them as such, particularly in fo3, but even in 4, they're basically the military. Also, we approach things with our world's logic. Synths are a legit threat. <cite>DarthAragorn posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah the brotherhood are supposed to be dicks</quote> Exactly. They're supposed to be selfish pricks. <cite>DeathDeathSong posted...</cite> <quote>ncr for life baby</quote> Amen</quote> They are all for just killing settlers to gain territory, in 4. They want to kill ghouls, even if they're good people. Super mutants can be good, too. They're xenophobic zealots. Definitely not the good guys.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Typhon 07/10/19 12:20:33 AM #16:	Because... Ad Victoriam, Brother. <cite>Typhon posted [p:924479922] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Because... Ad Victoriam, Brother.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 12:38:45 AM #17:	Guns_of_Verdun posted... pres_madagascar posted... Don't you find it funny that in FO4, both of the morally good factions are easily corrupted and largely ineffective? no not really? railroad are ineffective because they are underground and supporting a minority no one likes while being constantly targeted by a more powerful larger faction at all ends. and minutemen are only as strong as the land since its a milita. it makes complete sense that they are "less effective" than a now centuries old nationally spanning technocult and the smartest and most advanced men in the nation who can create super-powered andoids at whim. the game plot would make no sense if the railroad were a military force to be reckoned with. of all the complaints about fallout 4's plot, this one seems like the odd one to take. pres_madagascar posted... The BoS in fo3/FO4 is very, very similar to the US military. the us military are not nazis who waltz into places, kill indiscriminately, steal everything and horde it because the have decided no one else has the right to own it. your view of "military" seems to be "they have ranks, dicipline and say sir a lot." which is true of all fallout games Lmao yes they do. Not all of them, but it happens. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924480463] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>Guns_of_Verdun posted...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> Don't you find it funny that in FO4, both of the morally good factions are easily corrupted and largely ineffective?</quote> no not really? railroad are ineffective because they are underground and supporting a minority no one likes while being constantly targeted by a more powerful larger faction at all ends. and minutemen are only as strong as the land since its a milita. it makes complete sense that they are "less effective" than a now centuries old nationally spanning technocult and the smartest and most advanced men in the nation who can create super-powered andoids at whim. the game plot would make no sense if the railroad were a military force to be reckoned with. of all the complaints about fallout 4's plot, this one seems like the odd one to take. <cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> The BoS in fo3/FO4 is very, very similar to the US military. </quote> the us military are not nazis who waltz into places, kill indiscriminately, steal everything and horde it because the have decided no one else has the right to own it. your view of "military" seems to be "they have ranks, dicipline and say sir a lot." which is true of all fallout games</quote> Lmao yes they do. Not all of them, but it happens.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MakoReizei 07/10/19 12:39:43 AM #18:	Bethesda doesn't get Fallout --- https://i.imgtc.com/3owskMW.png <cite>MakoReizei posted [p:924480490] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Bethesda doesn't get Fallout</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 12:42:26 AM #19:	The quincy incident made me not trust the minutemen with power. Admittedly, the colonel hollis dude that died there was an objectively great guy and had a great plan for the future. He was thinking long term and knew it'd be a slow process to build civilization back up, and knew there'd be issues and tragedies along the way. Tbqh if the minutemen can maintain some sort of proper discipline and loyalty, they'd pretty much be a proto NCR on the east coast. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924480576] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>The quincy incident made me not trust the minutemen with power. Admittedly, the colonel hollis dude that died there was an objectively great guy and had a great plan for the future. He was thinking long term and knew it'd be a slow process to build civilization back up, and knew there'd be issues and tragedies along the way. Tbqh if the minutemen can maintain some sort of proper discipline and loyalty, they'd pretty much be a proto NCR on the east coast.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 12:44:14 AM #20:	Also, I forget, who controls most of the midwest and South? I know the legion has a ton of turf in the midwest, but didn't the south have its own big power group? --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924480615] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Also, I forget, who controls most of the midwest and South? I know the legion has a ton of turf in the midwest, but didn't the south have its own big power group?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
apolloooo 07/10/19 12:46:22 AM #21:	Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout --- http://i.imgtc.com/iJyp6bF.png http://i.imgtc.com/ZBw36Qh.png Thanks for the peeps that made the pics <3 if i make typos it means i am on phone <cite>apolloooo posted [p:924480675] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 12:54:12 AM #22:	apolloooo posted... Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924480885] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>apolloooo posted...</cite> <quote>Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout</quote> Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 12:59:39 AM #23:	Something that irked me about fallout 4, and I know it's petty, is the gatorclaws in nuka world dlc. Obsidian was saying befote FO4 came out that they'd love to do a fallout in New Orleans, and even did some concept art for it for shits and giggles, and it included gatorclaws. Then Bethesda steals the idea and throws them in nuka world as mostly an afterthought. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924481010] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Something that irked me about fallout 4, and I know it's petty, is the gatorclaws in nuka world dlc. Obsidian was saying befote FO4 came out that they'd love to do a fallout in New Orleans, and even did some concept art for it for shits and giggles, and it included gatorclaws. Then Bethesda steals the idea and throws them in nuka world as mostly an afterthought.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordRazziel 07/10/19 12:59:43 AM #24:	pres_madagascar posted... apolloooo posted... Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them. That's why I'm looking forward to Outer Worlds. --- https://i.imgtc.com/xg91pMF.gif https://i.imgtc.com/YvvIsuz.gif. On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion. <cite>LordRazziel posted [p:924481012] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>apolloooo posted...</cite> <quote>Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout</quote> Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them.</quote> That's why I'm looking forward to Outer Worlds.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThyCorndog 07/10/19 1:03:15 AM #25:	didn't play 4 but it was stupid in 3 that they basically made them into a bunch of lawful good paladins after having grown up with fallout 1, 2 and tactics --- https://imgur.com/6cPXvLN <cite>ThyCorndog posted [p:924481103] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>didn't play 4 but it was stupid in 3 that they basically made them into a bunch of lawful good paladins after having grown up with fallout 1, 2 and tactics</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 1:04:27 AM #26:	LordRazziel posted... pres_madagascar posted... apolloooo posted... Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them. That's why I'm looking forward to Outer Worlds. Me too man. Outer worlds and cyberpunk 2077 are my two most anticipated games right now. Obsidian actually understands shades of gray and moral ambiguity. Kotor 2 with the restored content mod is my favorite star wars story period, I loved how they approached morality in that game. I always think back to fallout 1 and 2. There was always a goal, and always some big bad enemy to take out, but how you got there was up to you. You could play as a chaotic neutral or chaotic good type, doing morally bad things for the greater good, and the game would adapt and support that. Junktown is a favorite location of mine for that reason. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924481135] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>LordRazziel posted...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>apolloooo posted...</cite> <quote>Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout</quote> Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them.</quote> That's why I'm looking forward to Outer Worlds.</quote> Me too man. Outer worlds and cyberpunk 2077 are my two most anticipated games right now. Obsidian actually understands shades of gray and moral ambiguity. Kotor 2 with the restored content mod is my favorite star wars story period, I loved how they approached morality in that game. I always think back to fallout 1 and 2. There was always a goal, and always some big bad enemy to take out, but how you got there was up to you. You could play as a chaotic neutral or chaotic good type, doing morally bad things for the greater good, and the game would adapt and support that. Junktown is a favorite location of mine for that reason.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 1:08:50 AM #27:	ThyCorndog posted... didn't play 4 but it was stupid in 3 that they basically made them into a bunch of lawful good paladins after having grown up with fallout 1, 2 and tactics They're not as morally good in 4 as in 3, but virtually every brotherhood member you meet, outside of maxson and Rhys, is a nice cheerful person. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924481254] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>ThyCorndog posted...</cite> <quote>didn't play 4 but it was stupid in 3 that they basically made them into a bunch of lawful good paladins after having grown up with fallout 1, 2 and tactics</quote> They're not as morally good in 4 as in 3, but virtually every brotherhood member you meet, outside of maxson and Rhys, is a nice cheerful person.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
loafy013 07/10/19 1:17:49 AM #28:	pres_madagascar posted... Also, we approach things with our world's logic. Synths are a legit threat. Was it humans or synths that built the shelters for crazy science purposes and set off the bombs? As an average joe, I would more willing to trust synths to not be focused on destroying the remainder of the human race. --- The ball is round, the game lasts 90 minutes. That's fact. Everything else, is theory. <cite>loafy013 posted [p:924481484] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote> Also, we approach things with our world's logic. Synths are a legit threat. </quote> Was it humans or synths that built the shelters for crazy science purposes and set off the bombs? As an average joe, I would more willing to trust synths to not be focused on destroying the remainder of the human race.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IHeartRadiation 07/10/19 1:18:57 AM #29:	pres_madagascar posted... ThyCorndog posted... didn't play 4 but it was stupid in 3 that they basically made them into a bunch of lawful good paladins after having grown up with fallout 1, 2 and tactics They're not as morally good in 4 as in 3, but virtually every brotherhood member you meet, outside of maxson and Rhys, is a nice cheerful person. The Knight Sergeant for the missing ration mission is rude. It's not too hard to find moments where Danse is an ass. Rhys is a prick 99% of the time. Halen can send you to DLC locations super early. Teagan compliments you for using your militia as cannon fodder. --- I don't get it either. <cite>IHeartRadiation posted [p:924481515] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ThyCorndog posted...</cite> <quote>didn't play 4 but it was stupid in 3 that they basically made them into a bunch of lawful good paladins after having grown up with fallout 1, 2 and tactics</quote> They're not as morally good in 4 as in 3, but virtually every brotherhood member you meet, outside of maxson and Rhys, is a nice cheerful person.</quote> The Knight Sergeant for the missing ration mission is rude. It's not too hard to find moments where Danse is an ass. Rhys is a prick 99% of the time. Halen can send you to DLC locations super early. Teagan compliments you for using your militia as cannon fodder.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Guerrilla Soldier 07/10/19 1:29:33 AM #30:	um...you know, there were literally two games named Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel before Bethesda ever got their hands on the series --- Disclaimer: There's a good chance the above post could be sarcasm. Die-hard Oakland A's fan --- Keep the A's in Oakland! <cite>Guerrilla Soldier posted [p:924481753] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>um...you know, there were literally two games named Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel before Bethesda ever got their hands on the series</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 2:41:42 AM #31:	Guerrilla Soldier posted... um...you know, there were literally two games named Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel before Bethesda ever got their hands on the series Tactics is solid but we don't talk about the brotherhood of steel game. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924483404] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>Guerrilla Soldier posted...</cite> <quote>um...you know, there were literally two games named Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel before Bethesda ever got their hands on the series</quote> Tactics is solid but we don't talk about the brotherhood of steel game.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CW_McGraw 07/10/19 3:33:30 AM #32:	FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good. --- https://imgur.com/hso8CUi <cite>CW_McGraw posted [p:924484348] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pres_madagascar 07/10/19 4:06:01 AM #33:	CW_McGraw posted... FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good. But they're not really. Their entire identity can be erased or changed at any time. --- https://imgur.com/23CCcZB https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/oqklqKC <cite>pres_madagascar posted [p:924484880] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>CW_McGraw posted...</cite> <quote>FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good.</quote> But they're not really. Their entire identity can be erased or changed at any time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mooreandrew58 07/10/19 4:23:34 AM #34:	DeathDeathSong posted... ncr for life baby I dont like the ncr either. They have this whole "nice farm you got their. It belongs to the ncr now" at least thats hiw it was in new vegas. But thats also what i like about fallout. All groups have at least one notable flaw. --- Cid- "looks like that overgrown lobster just got served!" Bartz-"with cheese biscuts AND mashed potatoes!" <cite>mooreandrew58 posted [p:924485147] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>DeathDeathSong posted...</cite> <quote>ncr for life baby</quote> I dont like the ncr either. They have this whole "nice farm you got their. It belongs to the ncr now" at least thats hiw it was in new vegas. But thats also what i like about fallout. All groups have at least one notable flaw.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DuneMan 07/10/19 7:56:02 AM #35:	CW_McGraw posted... FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good. They're not though. They're programmed mimicries. Glory, a Synth herself, admits as much. You can watch Synths being made in the Institute. They're given memories, but ultimately they lack free will. The whole morale debate comes in from the thought that "Well, if you strip away their command programming then they're convincing enough to pass as a person." But that is more to drive the point of "What truly makes a person, or free will." The other viewpoint presented is that "Experience gained over time, free of command codes, produces a valid individual 'person'." That's essentially Nick's plotline. Sure, he was given an echo imprint of a dead person's mind, but in all the years he's been active in the Commonwealth he's been 'creating' his own identity. Of course the counterpoint to that would be that you could, in theory, create a thousand copies of a particular mind and flood the world with them. Are they all 'people'? At what point does the programmed decision making go from mere 'machine' to a 'person'? Of course this is a Bethesda title so they don't really dive down that rabbit whole. You're expected to simply choose from: kill them all, control them all, let them live as people. Also, for those that recognize it: Z2-47, initialize factory reset. Authorization code Zeta-5-3-Kilo. It's that simple to shut down a Synth, if you've identified their model. --- "I'd rather betray the world than let the world betray me." -Cao Cao <cite>DuneMan posted [p:924488264] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>CW_McGraw posted...</cite> <quote>FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good.</quote> They're not though. They're programmed mimicries. Glory, a Synth herself, admits as much. You can watch Synths being made in the Institute. They're given memories, but ultimately they lack free will. The whole morale debate comes in from the thought that "Well, if you strip away their command programming then they're convincing enough to pass as a person." But that is more to drive the point of "What truly makes a person, or free will." The other viewpoint presented is that "Experience gained over time, free of command codes, produces a valid individual 'person'." That's essentially Nick's plotline. Sure, he was given an echo imprint of a dead person's mind, but in all the years he's been active in the Commonwealth he's been 'creating' his own identity. Of course the counterpoint to that would be that you could, in theory, create a thousand copies of a particular mind and flood the world with them. Are they all 'people'? At what point does the programmed decision making go from mere 'machine' to a 'person'? Of course this is a Bethesda title so they don't really dive down that rabbit whole. You're expected to simply choose from: kill them all, control them all, let them live as people. Also, for those that recognize it: <quote>Z2-47, initialize factory reset. Authorization code Zeta-5-3-Kilo.</quote> It's that simple to shut down a Synth, if you've identified their model.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ivynn 07/10/19 8:05:40 AM #36:	Guerrilla Soldier posted... um...you know, there were literally two games named Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel before Bethesda ever got their hands on the series And they're non-canon. --- https://imgur.com/vDci4hD <cite>Ivynn posted [p:924488446] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>Guerrilla Soldier posted...</cite> <quote>um...you know, there were literally two games named Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel before Bethesda ever got their hands on the series</quote> And they're non-canon.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NinjaBreakfast 07/10/19 8:06:09 AM #37:	pres_madagascar posted... It's like they make them their favorites because they're the most like a stereotypical military/space marine type faction and thus are the easiest for them to turn into "the good guys". Well yeah p much --- https://imgur.com/nGZeEqw Do you really think you can beat me? <cite>NinjaBreakfast posted [p:924488454] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote>It's like they make them their favorites because they're the most like a stereotypical military/space marine type faction and thus are the easiest for them to turn into "the good guys".</quote> Well yeah p much</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dyinglegacy 07/10/19 8:35:26 AM #38:	Being heroes or good guys isn't their intention. It's a side effect of what they do, and only marginally so. If you have a super mutant and feral ghoul problem and the brotherhood wipes them out. This is gonna be good for you. --- Voted worst user on CE 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Current e-argument streak: 0 wins. 99999 losses. <cite>Dyinglegacy posted [p:924489160] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>Being heroes or good guys isn't their intention. It's a side effect of what they do, and only marginally so. If you have a super mutant and feral ghoul problem and the brotherhood wipes them out. This is gonna be good for you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
apolloooo 07/10/19 12:05:20 PM #39:	pres_madagascar posted... apolloooo posted... Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them. They dont care. Their main audience don't care. The only one complaining are us minority. --- http://i.imgtc.com/iJyp6bF.png http://i.imgtc.com/ZBw36Qh.png Thanks for the peeps that made the pics <3 if i make typos it means i am on phone <cite>apolloooo posted [p:924496588] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>apolloooo posted...</cite> <quote>Because bethesda is trash and dont get fallout</quote> Well yes, but if they even did any research whatsoever, or even copied new Vegas, it'd have been fine. They don't seem to understand shades of gray. Everything is always black and white with them.</quote> They dont care. Their main audience don't care. The only one complaining are us minority.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterpug53 07/10/19 12:14:31 PM #40:	pres_madagascar posted... or even copied new Vegas > 3-Act main quest structure; 1st Act tracking down the man who shot you / your loved one; 2nd Act being courted by the 'good' factions, infiltrating the 'bad' faction and meeting its leader; 3rd Act locking in your faction choice and gearing up for a final confrontation against your enemy(ies) > 3 main faction choices, with a 4th less-developed fallback option should you screw the pooch with the other 3, or just want some variety / independence > Companions who are (generally) more fleshed-out and story-driven, with increased affinity / criteria met unlocking companion-specific quests Seems to me like Bethesda copied New Vegas as much as their limited ability allowed. --- Simple questions deserve long-winded answers that no one will bother to read. <cite>masterpug53 posted [p:924496962] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote>or even copied new Vegas</quote> > 3-Act main quest structure; 1st Act tracking down the man who shot you / your loved one; 2nd Act being courted by the 'good' factions, infiltrating the 'bad' faction and meeting its leader; 3rd Act locking in your faction choice and gearing up for a final confrontation against your enemy(ies) > 3 main faction choices, with a 4th less-developed fallback option should you screw the pooch with the other 3, or just want some variety / independence > Companions who are (generally) more fleshed-out and story-driven, with increased affinity / criteria met unlocking companion-specific quests Seems to me like Bethesda copied New Vegas as much as their limited ability allowed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pogo_Marimo 07/10/19 12:18:54 PM #41:	Tyranthraxus posted... We're Tunnel snakes If they ever go back to DC the Tunnel Snakes need to be a faction. --- It feels like they're pretending. It's like they just want blowjobs and they know these songs will get them http://www.last.fm/user/Pogo92 <cite>Pogo_Marimo posted [p:924497159] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote>We're Tunnel snakes</quote> If they ever go back to DC the Tunnel Snakes need to be a faction.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GeneralKenobi85 07/10/19 12:55:21 PM #42:	I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense. --- Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi <sneaky beeping> <cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted [p:924498705] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote>I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mooreandrew58 07/10/19 2:53:20 PM #43:	GeneralKenobi85 posted... I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense. If america got nuked the east coast would get hit a lot harder because of political areas. DC Pentagon etc. West Coast would only get his hard because of the sheer population which the east coast aint slacking in either. --- Cid- "looks like that overgrown lobster just got served!" Bartz-"with cheese biscuts AND mashed potatoes!" <cite>mooreandrew58 posted [p:924503931] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense.</quote> If america got nuked the east coast would get hit a lot harder because of political areas. DC Pentagon etc. West Coast would only get his hard because of the sheer population which the east coast aint slacking in either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
masterpug53 07/10/19 3:07:28 PM #44:	mooreandrew58 posted... GeneralKenobi85 posted... I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense. If america got nuked the east coast would get hit a lot harder because of political areas. DC Pentagon etc. West Coast would only get his hard because of the sheer population which the east coast aint slacking in either. The whole 'DC got hit harder' concept was a fabrication to justify why the water's so perpetually irradiated as to require the purifier boondoggle. It also exists to justify why the CW citizens never got the post-post-apocalypse memo from the original games, and 200 years later are still squatting and scrounging like the war happened just a few years ago. But this contradicts why most of the DC landmarks are still standing, despite the White House clearly being ground zero for a major detonation. And let's not get started on how no one in the CW actually visibly needs the purifier apart from a handful of thirsty beggars. This is one of the lessons Bethesda actually learned in the time between 3 to 4; they had the detonation take place outside of Boston, so it makes sense that the city's still mostly intact. The Glowing Sea is what DC should have looked like if it got 'hit harder.' --- Simple questions deserve long-winded answers that no one will bother to read. <cite>masterpug53 posted [p:924504565] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>mooreandrew58 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense.</quote> If america got nuked the east coast would get hit a lot harder because of political areas. DC Pentagon etc. West Coast would only get his hard because of the sheer population which the east coast aint slacking in either.</quote> The whole 'DC got hit harder' concept was a fabrication to justify why the water's so perpetually irradiated as to require the purifier boondoggle. It also exists to justify why the CW citizens never got the post-post-apocalypse memo from the original games, and 200 years later are still squatting and scrounging like the war happened just a few years ago. But this contradicts why most of the DC landmarks are still standing, despite the White House clearly being ground zero for a major detonation. And let's not get started on how no one in the CW actually visibly needs the purifier apart from a handful of thirsty beggars. This is one of the lessons Bethesda actually learned in the time between 3 to 4; they had the detonation take place outside of Boston, so it makes sense that the city's still mostly intact. The Glowing Sea is what DC should have looked like if it got 'hit harder.'</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GeneralKenobi85 07/10/19 3:09:09 PM #45:	mooreandrew58 posted... GeneralKenobi85 posted... I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense. If america got nuked the east coast would get hit a lot harder because of political areas. DC Pentagon etc. West Coast would only get his hard because of the sheer population which the east coast aint slacking in either. Still the difference in recovery and development is pretty staggering. I don't really mind it too much. I know a lot of people prefer Fallout 3's more post-apocalyptic feel. And that's why Bethesda chose to make it that way. It would have been harder to sell a recovering Washington DC as a post-apocalyptic wasteland than it was for a recovering California. And yeah like pug said the dumb water plot was definitely a part of it as well. --- Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi <sneaky beeping> <cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted [p:924504637] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>mooreandrew58 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>GeneralKenobi85 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm okay with their justification for why Elder Lyons and his followers were such goody two-shoes. It doesn't really make sense how the Capital Wasteland is in such bad shape compared to the West, but a lot of things in Fallout 3 don't make sense.</quote> If america got nuked the east coast would get hit a lot harder because of political areas. DC Pentagon etc. West Coast would only get his hard because of the sheer population which the east coast aint slacking in either.</quote> Still the difference in recovery and development is pretty staggering. I don't really mind it too much. I know a lot of people prefer Fallout 3's more post-apocalyptic feel. And that's why Bethesda chose to make it that way. It would have been harder to sell a recovering Washington DC as a post-apocalyptic wasteland than it was for a recovering California. And yeah like pug said the dumb water plot was definitely a part of it as well.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CW_McGraw 07/10/19 5:33:07 PM #46:	pres_madagascar posted... But they're not really. Their entire identity can be erased or changed at any time. Humans who suffer traumatic brain injuries can have their entire identities erased or changed at any time as well. Erasing a synth's memory is the mechanical equivalent of a biological process in human. DuneMan posted... Of course the counterpoint to that would be that you could, in theory, create a thousand copies of a particular mind and flood the world with them. Are they all 'people'? At what point does the programmed decision making go from mere 'machine' to a 'person'? Of course this is a Bethesda title so they don't really dive down that rabbit whole. You're expected to simply choose from: kill them all, control them all, let them live as people. The different lived experiences of those thousand initially identical minds would create distinct people over time. There is no way for all those synths not to diverge from one another in various ways. I just basically don't get how someone can play Nick or Curie's questlines and not conclude that they are basically people. --- https://imgur.com/hso8CUi <cite>CW_McGraw posted [p:924510924] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote>But they're not really. Their entire identity can be erased or changed at any time.</quote> Humans who suffer traumatic brain injuries can have their entire identities erased or changed at any time as well. Erasing a synth's memory is the mechanical equivalent of a biological process in human. <cite>DuneMan posted...</cite> <quote>Of course the counterpoint to that would be that you could, in theory, create a thousand copies of a particular mind and flood the world with them. Are they all 'people'? At what point does the programmed decision making go from mere 'machine' to a 'person'? Of course this is a Bethesda title so they don't really dive down that rabbit whole. You're expected to simply choose from: kill them all, control them all, let them live as people.</quote> The different lived experiences of those thousand initially identical minds would create distinct people over time. There is no way for all those synths not to diverge from one another in various ways. I just basically don't get how someone can play Nick or Curie's questlines and not conclude that they are basically people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Guns_of_Verdun 07/10/19 6:13:21 PM #47:	pres_madagascar posted... CW_McGraw posted... FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good. But they're not really. Their entire identity can be erased or changed at any time. i don't think that's a very good standard of personhood. in our world let alone fallout that has a ton of quests about fucking with people's memories and identities. --- https://imgur.com/VwJsmAR <cite>Guns_of_Verdun posted [p:924512550] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>pres_madagascar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CW_McGraw posted...</cite> <quote>FO4 makes pretty explicit that synths are basically people. Any faction that denies the personhood of months can't be good.</quote> But they're not really. Their entire identity can be erased or changed at any time.</quote> i don't think that's a very good standard of personhood. in our world let alone fallout that has a ton of quests about fucking with people's memories and identities.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DuneMan 07/10/19 6:28:56 PM #48:	CW_McGraw posted... I just basically don't get how someone can play Nick or Curie's questlines and not conclude that they are basically people. Automatron provides some insight to that. You could theoretically program a bread toaster to be on par with Nick or Curie or whatever. Then you'd have to call that toaster a person. --- "I'd rather betray the world than let the world betray me." -Cao Cao <cite>DuneMan posted [p:924513240] in Why does B... [t:77852693]...</cite> <quote><cite>CW_McGraw posted...</cite> <quote>I just basically don't get how someone can play Nick or Curie's questlines and not conclude that they are basically people.</quote> Automatron provides some insight to that. You could theoretically program a bread toaster to be on par with Nick or Curie or whatever. Then you'd have to call that toaster a person.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Why does Bethesda have such a hard on for the brotherhood of steel? (spoilers) (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Why does Bethesda have such a hard on for the brotherhood of steel? (spoilers)