Board 8 > Let's list reasons FF12 is the 5th best game of all time

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Lopen
07/09/11 10:28:00 PM
#51:


I actually thought the one thing that was decent about FFXII was the combat system. It felt "fast enough" to me. It's just that the plot and characters are so bad I lose all enthusiasm to play it again ever.

I'd love to see them try the formula again with good characters/plot and a real job system instead of the License Grid.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:28:00 PM
#52:


Well, I didn't say it was always like that. It was just the norm, or at least it felt like it.

To be fair, it's been a while since the last time I played FFXII. I need to replay it sometime and see what I think of it.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:29:00 PM
#53:


From: Lopen | #051
I'd love to see them try the formula again with good characters/plot and a real job system instead of the License Grid.


They did.

They just never let America play it!

Well, the last part of that sentence anyway.

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Panthera
07/09/11 10:30:00 PM
#54:


Make a playthrough topic when you do. That way you can have me telling you why UR DOIN IT RONG after every update <_<

From: Lopen | #051
I'd love to see them try the formula again with good characters/plot


Yes, I too would love to see this combo of gameplay and good characters/plot tried again.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:31:00 PM
#55:


Well, I have a save file right around Raithwall's Tomb from the last time I tried to play it, but then FFXIII came out and that was the end of that.

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 10:31:00 PM
#56:


Plus, more often than not, battles don't feel very...frenetic or lively.

I dunno, the battles feel much livelier than most other games in the series.

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Lopen
07/09/11 10:33:00 PM
#57:


Yeah I heard about it but you need both. I mean I guess Ashe and Balthier were cool enough but I still need a third.

Or the ability to hire generics maybe. Ashe + Balthier + Generic Red Mage let's do it.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:34:00 PM
#58:


Basch was cool!

Like, you could get rid of Vaan, Penelo, and Fran, and I wouldn't care at all.

Well, I guess you kinda need Fran around to play off of Balthier every once in a while, but still.

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Lopen
07/09/11 10:36:00 PM
#59:


Basch was decent but I never got attached to him at all.

More than I can say for the other three mind you-- though Fran was probably more useful to the game's cast cause she played off Balthier well.

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Panthera
07/09/11 10:36:00 PM
#60:


It always baffles me how Fran doesn't get the same scorn Vaan and Penelo do for "not being important".

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 10:38:00 PM
#61:


Panthera posted...
It always baffles me how Fran doesn't get the same scorn Vaan and Penelo do for "not being important".

Fran won't get the same flak that Vaan does because the game doesn't try to convince you that Fran is important enough for the player to control in towns. As for Penelo, it's that Balthier/Fran chemistry that puts Fran ahead.

There's a lot of Fran-hating out there though.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:38:00 PM
#62:


It's not that baffling!

Well, I guess it is since Penelo's cute, too, but I guess that speaks volumes.

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Panthera
07/09/11 10:39:00 PM
#63:


From: LeonhartFour | #062
It's not that baffling!

Well, I guess it is since Penelo's cute, too, but I guess that speaks volumes.


I was hoping the answer didn't boil down to "ass"...

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 10:41:00 PM
#64:


"I had a good feeling!" -Penelo mocking FFT (PSX)

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GANON1025
07/09/11 10:41:00 PM
#65:


As for the villains, just take Vayne out and put Cid as the main villain with Gabranth as his second hand.

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Lopen
07/09/11 10:42:00 PM
#66:


Jeff Zero nailed it really. It's not all ass. Fran plays off Balthier and Penelo plays off Vaan (or more often, does nothing, cause she's with Vaan, who does nothing)

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:43:00 PM
#67:


Yeah, Fran plays a good supporting role to a good character, so it helps.

She can also be pretty funny.

"Looks like you're in more of a supporting role."
"Fran, please."

Oh, I forgot one reason that could boost FFXII's esteem:

Gideon Emery

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Panthera
07/09/11 10:45:00 PM
#68:


From: GANON1025 | #066
As for the villains, just take Vayne out and put Cid as the main villain with Gabranth as his second hand.


This makes no sense

Like, this is worse than "Balthier is the main character"

Cid is kind of overrated anyway.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:47:00 PM
#69:


From: Panthera | #068
Cid is kind of overrated anyway.


This is worse than "Vayne might be the best villain in gaming."

Although I agree Dr. Cid couldn't really pull off being the main villain.

Although the best parts of the game are when he's the party's main pursuit.

So go figure.

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Panthera
07/09/11 10:49:00 PM
#70:


He's a bit too overboard at times. There's being crazy and weird and theatrical, and then there's just being absurd. I still like him, but he toes that line at times.

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Xuxon
07/09/11 10:52:00 PM
#71:


From: Lopen | #057
Yeah I heard about it but you need both. I mean I guess Ashe and Balthier were cool enough but I still need a third.

Or the ability to hire generics maybe. Ashe + Balthier + Generic Red Mage let's do it.


Reddas would be an awesome third if you could use him properly. Actually the international version lets you control the guest characters, but I think they still can't use the license board and can't change their equipment.
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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 10:53:00 PM
#72:


I heard the International Version nerfed Larsa's infinite Hi-Potions.

Laaaaaaaame

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metaIslugg
07/09/11 10:56:00 PM
#73:


katana swords

making everyone wield katanas/ninja swords

create yakuza in FFXII

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 10:59:00 PM
#74:


Man, I really want to play International.

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GANON1025
07/09/11 11:01:00 PM
#75:


Or maybe have Basch as the main character

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 11:02:00 PM
#76:


GANON1025 posted...
Or maybe have Basch as the main character

...That too.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:04:00 PM
#77:


From: GANON1025 | #075
Or maybe have Basch as the main character


Nah, he's not relatable enough.

That's why we had to have Vaan.

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GANON1025
07/09/11 11:06:00 PM
#78:


I felt he was very relatable.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:07:00 PM
#79:


Square disagrees!

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 11:08:00 PM
#80:


And people wonder why Matsuno suffered a breakdown. Literally surrounded by idiots.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:08:00 PM
#81:


It says a lot about what Square thinks of its fans when they felt the need to create Vaan because they thought we would relate to him better.

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Panthera
07/09/11 11:09:00 PM
#82:


Basch is a bit on the bland side imo

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GANON1025
07/09/11 11:10:00 PM
#83:


How could I ever relate to someone with such funky abs

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GANON1025
07/09/11 11:11:00 PM
#84:


Of course, I always kinda felt Ashe was always the main character, but I guess it really was Vaan

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:12:00 PM
#85:


Balthier is the leading man.

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pjbasis
07/09/11 11:21:00 PM
#86:


Pretty sure Vaan is Japan's fault.
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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:30:00 PM
#87:


Yeah, blame everything on Japan. How convenient.

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#88
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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:35:00 PM
#89:


From: UltimaterializerX | #088
You'd think people would actually read and comment instead of just going "lolno"


Funny, I'm pretty sure you've done this to Panthera any time he tries to say anything positive about the game.

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pjbasis
07/09/11 11:36:00 PM
#90:


To me a 1/10 game is a game that was so bad you couldn't even finish it.
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Chrono1219
07/09/11 11:36:00 PM
#91:


Basch Lives!
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#92
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kevwaffles
07/09/11 11:41:00 PM
#93:


From: Panthera | #025
Vayne is awesome and I'm struggling to think of video game villains who are better.


Pretty much any other FF villian, for starters. Ultimecia is the only one that comes to mind for possibly being worse, and that's mostly just for being tossed in pretty late in the game. Even freaking Barthandeleus (sp?) was better.

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LeonhartFour
07/09/11 11:42:00 PM
#94:


Well, this seems like a pretty good time to bail out before the Vayne debates begin.

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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 11:44:00 PM
#95:


Ulty's FFXII sounds great, actually. Or should I say Matsuno's?

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Panthera
07/09/11 11:45:00 PM
#96:


From: UltimaterializerX | #088
What a completely well-reasoned and documented argument you have!

You'd think people would actually read and comment instead of just going "lolno", it's not like I gave the game a 1 or anything. A 4 is a very fair score for it.


I figure we've argued about this a few times in the past and it's sufficient to not make it surprising when I don't go into another lengthy reply to you in a fairly non-serious topic.

From: UltimaterializerX | #092
Gabranth as the main bad guy,


I still fail to see how this could possibly make sense in a way that *doesn't* involve changing him enough that he's not the Gabranth we know anyway.

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#97
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#98
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Jeff Zero
07/09/11 11:48:00 PM
#99:


Matsuno's, yeah. Pat covers the full story better than I do here: http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=ff12

Oh wow. A socksmakepeoplesexy link. That site's articles are terrific. I love the FF series.

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Panthera
07/09/11 11:53:00 PM
#100:


From: UltimaterializerX | #098
Panthera if you actually read my review, it's very fair and well-written.


I have read your review before. I disagree on the score and various points obviously, but I'm not saying it's insane trolling or anything like that.

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