Board 8 > Let's list reasons FF12 is the 5th best game of all time

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_Harmonica_
07/10/11 12:34:00 AM
#101:


From: Lopen | #051
I'd love to see them try the formula again with good characters/plot and a real job system instead of the License Grid.


Good luck trying that without Matsuno

it's funny how even the ruins of his work make FF12 the second-best Final Fantasy

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Panthera
07/10/11 10:37:00 AM
#102:


Let's not allow the awesome final boss music go unspoken here.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 10:39:00 AM
#103:



Good luck trying that without Matsuno


Or in broader terms, Sakaguchi or Takahashi. Or Kato. Or Uematsu and Mitsuda. The Square Enix talent exodus beats Capcom.

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:30:00 AM
#104:


From: Panthera | #102
Let's not allow the awesome final boss music go unspoken here.


The soundtrack was one of FFXII's weaker points, I thought. I never find myself having an urge to listen to FFXII music.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:31:00 AM
#105:


"Esper Battle" is an amazing track.

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pjbasis
07/10/11 11:31:00 AM
#106:


Oh em gee.

Battle for Freedom is one of the best tracks I've heard in the series.
I love Uematsu's music but FFXII had a fantastic replacement. Even FFXIII did for that matter.

Music is the one thing that stayed consistently great throughout the series.
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:32:00 AM
#107:


From: Jeff Zero | #099
Oh wow. A socksmakepeoplesexy link. That site's articles are terrific. I love the FF series.


I like those articles for the most part, but his FFXIII article is pretty terrible because it seems like a lot of, "This isn't old school Final Fantasy. Why are they doing things differently? Let's make fun of this game for referencing past games in the series like every game in the series that isn't Final Fantasy I does." That one more than anything, it feels like his bias toward old school FF keeps him from really giving newer FFs a fair shake.

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Panthera
07/10/11 11:34:00 AM
#108:


From: LeonhartFour | #104
The soundtrack was one of FFXII's weaker points, I thought. I never find myself having an urge to listen to FFXII music.


I'm pretty sure roughly 95% of my time spent listening to video game music outside of playing the games in question is spent on FFXII music. It's my favourite video game soundtrack ever.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:34:00 AM
#109:


I'll have to re-read it. I agreed with him on most points though.

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:35:00 AM
#110:


He's also the only person I've seen who considers FFVII part of old school Final Fantasy, but I think it's because he likes it and by grouping it in with old school, he can have free reign to bash new FF games without contradicting himself.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:36:00 AM
#111:


LeonhartFour posted...
He's also the only person I've seen who considers FFVII part of old school Final Fantasy, but I think it's because he likes it and by grouping it in with old school, he can have free reign to bash new FF games without contradicting himself.

Considering we're up to XIV now, FFVII is old enough that it's at the tail end of the back half. Discounting the two online titles it's still got wiggle room though.

Of course if we're just going by the whole "FFVII is in 3D! Good lord!" thing, then sure. :P

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:38:00 AM
#112:


Well, there's a pretty clear break in style once you hit FFVII that it makes it difficult to group it in with "old school" FF games.

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Panthera
07/10/11 11:41:00 AM
#113:


From: LeonhartFour | #110
He's also the only person I've seen who considers FFVII part of old school Final Fantasy, but I think it's because he likes it and by grouping it in with old school, he can have free reign to bash new FF games without contradicting himself.


Pretty much. That guy's reviews are awful and almost 100% nostalgia. His FFII review is basically "the game sucks but it introduced traditions so YAY IT'S GOOD!" and his reviews for later games often criticize it for everything he claimed to like in earlier games. He's funny at times, but very contradictory and generally doesn't seem to care about the quality of games, only whether he has fond memories of it or not.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:41:00 AM
#114:


LeonhartFour posted...
Well, there's a pretty clear break in style once you hit FFVII that it makes it difficult to group it in with "old school" FF games.

I agree with you... but at the same time I don't agree with you. Tetsuya Nomura had already been flexing his design muscle a tad bit in FFV with monster designs and much more noticeably in FFVI with a few of the characters. On many levels VI and VII feel very much part of the same era to me. Just one is quite cinematic compared to the other's 2D overhead.

Both strive to develop their world, their casts and their villains more than the games that preceded them. Yoshinori Kitase began getting more hands-on with the series starting with VI as opposed to VII.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:42:00 AM
#115:


I doubt very much that I'm going to win this one if Leonhart and Panthera don't see that VII isn't quite so game-changing from stricter perspectives as they say it is! They're uniting!

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KingBartz
07/10/11 11:42:00 AM
#116:


FFXII has a great soundtrack. One of my favorite things about it is the great environment musics for the field areas. But yeah lol Vayne he was really boring.

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:43:00 AM
#117:


Well, if I were going to make a break anywhere other than where it is now (and where most fans seem to agree it is), it'd be grouping VI in with the modern FFs rather than grouping VII in with the old FFs.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:46:00 AM
#118:


LeonhartFour posted...
Well, if I were going to make a break anywhere other than where it is now (and where most fans seem to agree it is), it'd be grouping VI in with the modern FFs rather than grouping VII in with the old FFs.

Which just so happens to be where I divide things, actually. Hence my point in the more recent post. Before I was just throwing other statistics out as a way of demonstrating how different people can feasibly view the whole shebang differently

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:53:00 AM
#119:


Personally, I enjoy the articles. I think they're pretty witty and well written, but he's pretty clearly biased against the new games in his writing. The FFXIII one just got out of hand to me.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:55:00 AM
#120:


Well I also feel like he's harsher on FFIX and FFX than necessary for sure. I'm also not convinced his version of how FFVIII's plot came about is the "only possible explanation". But yeah, I still like the articles.

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GANON1025
07/10/11 11:56:00 AM
#121:


Oh, another reason

Ex-Death is in it

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 11:57:00 AM
#122:


Gilgamesh for that matter.

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 11:59:00 AM
#123:


Get the "Ex" out.

X-Death.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:00:00 PM
#124:


LeonhartFour posted...
Get the "Ex" out.

X-Death.


Put the "Ex" back in.

Exdeath.

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GANON1025
07/10/11 12:02:00 PM
#125:


Yeah it's Ex-Death. And don't give me that "Exodus" crap either.

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:04:00 PM
#126:


He's not the former Death.

He's X-Death.

He's Death, only cooler because adding an X to your name makes everything cooler.

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:13:00 PM
#127:


Those articles are way too effin long. I've thought about doing this too though.

But still...he seems incredibly biased towards the middle of the series. Old games are "too old" and new games suck.

FFXI is supposedly garbage too. wtf
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:14:00 PM
#128:


Why are you ever surprised when people think FFXI sucks?

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:14:00 PM
#129:


He's not the former Death.

Yes he is.

Don't argue it.

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:14:00 PM
#130:


You could also think of it as EXdeath. Cause EX is a prefix for "better than without it."
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:14:00 PM
#131:


From: pjbasis | #130
You could also think of it as EXdeath. Cause EX is a prefix for "better than without it."


No, you couldn't.

From: Jeff Zero | #129
He's not the former Death.

Yes he is.

Don't argue it.


No, he isn't.

I will argue it.

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:16:00 PM
#132:


argh.

FFXI is great though. The carrot analogy is really BS.
If you're not having fun with the journey, then of course it's not fun. But the same could be said of any game you're not having fun with.
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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:18:00 PM
#133:


Exdeath may be a portmanteau of "Death" and "Exodus," which is Greek for "departure" and names the second book of the Torah, where Moses leads the Hebrew people out of Egypt to Israel. This may be a reference to the refuge of the evil spirits that corrupted Exdeath's original body. The inclusion of his Esper form in Final Fantasy XII also suggests this. It may also be a reference to the Latin prefix ex, meaning "out of," symbolizing Exdeath's birth from evil spirits.

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:19:00 PM
#134:


You think I'm going to accept this because you use fancy language origins and symbolism?

Well, think again!

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:19:00 PM
#135:


LeonhartFour posted...
You think I'm going to accept this because you use fancy language origins and symbolism?

Well, think again!


Damn, foiled again.

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:20:00 PM
#136:


I want to hear your explanations for Neo Exdeath!
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:21:00 PM
#137:


He's the new former Death!

That's even dumber!

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:21:00 PM
#138:


pjbasis posted...
I want to hear your explanations for Neo Exdeath!

He's the newer, hipper and edgier birth from evil spirits, geez.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:22:00 PM
#139:


LeonhartFour posted...
He's the new former Death!

That's even dumber!


And Neo X-Death looks like it might as well be Neo_X_Death_X_Neo for all it matters!

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:22:00 PM
#140:


He really was edgier.

He was all like...now I want to end myself too and ****.
It was deep.
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:23:00 PM
#141:


X-Death doesn't use underscores, heathen!

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:24:00 PM
#142:


Yeah, Neo X-Death was all like "Yeah I'm going to erase everything and then I'll erase myself"

And then my party was like "LOL No you won't Gil Toss Mime Mime Mime Gil Toss Mime Mime Mime"

And then he died

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:24:00 PM
#143:


pjbasis posted...
He really was edgier.

He was all like...now I want to end myself too and ****.
It was deep.


Let's all be men about this and admit we shed a tear at this revelation.

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:25:00 PM
#144:


LeonhartFour posted...
Yeah, Neo X-Death was all like "Yeah I'm going to erase everything and then I'll erase myself"

And then my party was like "LOL No you won't Gil Toss Mime Mime Mime Gil Toss Mime Mime Mime"

And then he died


Yeah, Ultimecia was all like "Yeah I'm going to compress everything and then I'll be secure"

And then my party was like "LOL No you won't Renzokuken Aura Aura Aura Holy War Renzokuken Renzokuken Renzokuken"

And then she died

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:26:00 PM
#145:


Why wasn't it Git Toss Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime?"

Are you saying you didn't have a fourth Mime???
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:26:00 PM
#146:


Hey, don't forget Armageddon Fist!

Although the best part is that Ultimecia can tank like 5 Lionhearts in a row because of the forced dialogue at the end of the last fight.

What a boss

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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:27:00 PM
#147:


From: pjbasis | #145
Why wasn't it Git Toss Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime Mime?"

Are you saying you didn't have a fourth Mime???


I was not adequately prepared, no.

It made things a little tougher, but I managed.

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pjbasis
07/10/11 12:28:00 PM
#148:


I want to try.

BFA was like "kill me"

and then my party was like "LOL ok attack attack"
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LeonhartFour
07/10/11 12:29:00 PM
#149:


You're doing it wrong

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Jeff Zero
07/10/11 12:29:00 PM
#150:


pjbasis posted...
I want to try.

BFA was like "kill me"

and then my party was like "LOL ok attack attack"


9/10 best post ever

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