Board 8 > Board 8 Mafia Discussion Topic 33.5 - ##Purge Monster

(+) Yeah! (+)

From: _Regaro_ | #350
by the way I want to auto-lynch the next person that tries to go for world's most ridiculous breadcrumb on principle

<_<

From: VeryInsane | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:00:45 PM | #352
So yeah, I have a few questions now thanks to what happened in FF7.

Is there a standard win condition for Serial Killers?

Also, are detective scans weighted or not depending on several town vanillas and mafia vanillas?

From: manticore16 | #357
2. I weigh them in terms of percentage of them showing up, but you can't have "Insert role here, TOWN Vanilla, and TOWN Vanilla." Or three Vanillas. So if that happens I guess you reroll, removing all other versions of the duplicate role, and having to only pick one out of the remaining roles, not two.

From: Jmast7 | #358
I always thought Detective claims were weighted. That's why when you see Detective fake claims with no Town Vanillas in them you get suspicious *ahemNewbieXahem* <_<

From: manticore16 | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:05:41 PM | #357
VeryInsane posted...
So yeah, I have a few questions now thanks to what happened in FF7.

Is there a standard win condition for Serial Killers?

Also, are detective scans weighted or not depending on several town vanillas and mafia vanillas?

1. The SK win is last man standing. The judgment call is if it's 1v1 SK vs. scum.
2. I weigh them in terms of percentage of them showing up, but you can't have "Insert role here, TOWN Vanilla, and TOWN Vanilla." Or three Vanillas. So if that happens I guess you reroll, removing all other versions of the duplicate role, and having to only pick one out of the remaining roles, not two.

From: Jmast7 | #360
Oh right, no duplicate roles are given. But there should be a higher % chance of Town Vanilla than anything.

From: SpeedYoshi | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:09:43 PM | #362
They're 'weighted' in the sense that if 15% of your game is town vanilla 15% of the time town vanilla will show up

but you can get results like town vanilla/town vanilla/town vanilla

From: _Regaro_ | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:11:32 PM | #363
so would the proper way to do a Det scan be to go to random.org, plug in your entire role list, and just take the first two (ignoring duplicates) that aren't the target's role, then random those two and your third one for the order?

From: Lopen | #366
So what I'm saying there is there probably isn't a real standard.

From: _Regaro_ | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:16:59 PM | #367
Also I don't care what anybody else says, dead roles can show up in det scans.

From: VeryInsane | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:14:28 PM | #364
I always thought Detective claims were weighted. That's why when you see Detective fake claims with no Town Vanillas in them you get suspicious *ahemNewbieXahem* <_<

I think there's only been 2 town detectives in the last year or so and in Bioshock he died N1 and in Bible I'm pretty sure we didn't weigh the nilla claims.

From: VeryInsane | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:16:59 PM | #368
Detective roles make me think of Clue for some reason.

From: Lopen | #370
Well I agree.

Me I'd say the standard should be:

1. Two random roles, weighted by frequency. Then the real role.
2. Dead roles can show up.
3. Repeats can show up. (don't expect support on this one)
4. EVERY OTHER NIGHT LOL.

From: Lopen | Posted: 8/10/2011 3:20:38 PM | #370
Well I agree.

Me I'd say the standard should be:

1. Two random roles, weighted by frequency. Then the real role.
2. Dead roles can show up.
3. Repeats can show up. (don't expect support on this one)
4. EVERY OTHER NIGHT LOL.

From: eaedwards6400 | #378
I feel like we need a wiki or something on our rules and roles. Because ulti told me about the normal revenger role having a revenger kill post death. I never heard of a revenger role when i made cloud a revenger. In all honestly if it were used in other games it would prolly be better named hunter. But anyways with this and the detective issue i just think we need something that is more based off the things we used.

From: BakusaiTenketsu | #379
My opinion of SK win condition is entirely based on how the host writes out the rules for the other win conditions.


-If SK is written as "must be last man standing," then his win condition is just that... must be last man standing. and if he has no way to remove a Bulletproof player or is constantly roleblocked, he should have figured out a way to remove that player earlier.

-If Mafia is written as "you win when your teams numbers equal or exceed the remaining members of town," then they would beat an SK in a 1v1 and neither can kill each other, since they have technically reached their win condition.

-If Mafia is written as "you win when nothing can prevent you from defeating all remaining players in the town," then I would call it a draw in a 1v1 where neither can kill each other.



Since Independent factions are by far the hardest to play as, I think a slightly easier clause is perfectly acceptable, such as 1/1/1 is condsidered an automatic win for both mafia and sk. Survivors would automatically win in this scenario, SK should as well.

From: SpeedYoshi | #383
FFX mafia used the 1/1/1 wincon specifically

From: BakusaiTenketsu | Posted: 8/10/2011 7:03:45 PM | #379
My opinion of SK win condition is entirely based on how the host writes out the rules for the other win conditions.


-If SK is written as "must be last man standing," then his win condition is just that... must be last man standing. and if he has no way to remove a Bulletproof player or is constantly roleblocked, he should have figured out a way to remove that player earlier.

-If Mafia is written as "you win when your teams numbers equal or exceed the remaining members of town," then they would beat an SK in a 1v1 and neither can kill each other, since they have technically reached their win condition.

-If Mafia is written as "you win when nothing can prevent you from defeating all remaining players in the town," then I would call it a draw in a 1v1 where neither can kill each other.

From: VeryInsane | Posted: 8/10/2011 9:49:05 PM | #387
Should be worth noting that eaedwards neglected to put in the win condition for every role in the game.

So we'll never know what his rules were!

From: Jmast7 | #386
Thing is, I think it should always be implied (unless stated otherwise) that if the game comes down to 1 SK vs 1 Mafia the SK always wins. Most scum players assume this anyway and you really don't want to tell scum explicitly in their role PMs that a SK is in the game (though they can often deduce it from the size of the game and the power roles they receive). Killer7 was case in point here as the Gambler made scum think there was a SK for most of the game.

I'd say tell the SK that if he is alive at the end of the game with one other player, he wins (if they're BP RB, they get an unblockable statue dropped on their head). Tell the scum once their numbers are equal to or exceed the remaining members of town they win, but it's implied that if it's 1vs1 SK/Mafia they will lose.

From: Jmast7 | #388
So... everybody wins! o_O

From: manticore16 | #380
But yeah, a general rolewiki would be cool.

From: Panthera | #392
I know I've asked this before but can someone please fill me in what DNE is and why it was apparently so horrible?

From: SpeedYoshi | Posted: 8/10/2011 9:55:29 PM | #389
you cannot imply things in wincons. Your wincon must cover all possible endgame scenarios. You're told to play to your wincon, when the mafia gets to the point where they achieve their wincon you cannot just go 'no you lose'

From: Jmast7 | #394
What I'm saying is, if you tell the SK he wins at 1vs1, I don't think you want to tell the scum from the outset that they win when their numbers are equal "unless it's 1vs1 against a SK." I think keeping scum guessing as to whether there is a SK at the outset is a good thing and I don't think there's any way to ambiguously imply it in the win condition.

From: SpeedYoshi | Posted: 8/10/2011 10:21:27 PM | #396
'You win when you control 50% of the remaining players and nothing can prevent this' is fairly ambiguous but covers the scenario

But what you can't do is go 'You win when you control 50% of the remaining players' Then it comes down to 3 man lylo 1/1/1 lynch town then say the mafia loses because they completed their wincon

From: _Regaro_ | #393
http://fettbox.byethost8.com/Mercs2/index.htm

Just read that


The short version is "Wanglicious runs a mafia game"

From: SpeedYoshi | Posted: 8/10/2011 10:33:04 PM | #398
It also gives town outs if there is no sk
in DQV there were even numbers (I think) but town had 2 extra kills so they didn't insta lose
the same with the protection+vig shot scenario