Board 8 > Harry Potter 7 Part 2 Question

(+) Yeah! (+)

spoilers

so regarding the Elder's Wand.

Voldemort kills Snape cause the wand goes to the person who killed the previous owner. So Snape killed Dumbledore, making it his, then Vold killed Snape, making it his.

But then in the end Harry's like "in the end it was mine all along, cause I disarmed _________ (I forgot who he said)"

So what's the deal with this? Can someone explain how the Elder's Wand works?

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From: TheFlyingWolfen | #001
So Snape killed Dumbledore, making it his, then Vold killed Snape, making it his.

Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore, Harry beat Malfoy.

Thus, it's Harry's.

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It's not killed, its defeated. Malfoy defeated Dumbledor

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I didn't see Part 1 or read the 7th book, which is why I'm asking. When Harry beat Malfoy in the duel in part 1, did Malfoy have the Elder's Wand?

And if Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore in the 6th, then why did Snape kill him? Wasn't hte point of Snape killing Dumbledore to prevent Vold from getting the Elder's Wand?

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*Spoilers*
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I believe they didn't know the ownership had passed on already.

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spoilers

so regarding the Elder's Wand.

Voldemort kills Snape cause the wand goes to the person who killed the previous owner. So Snape killed Dumbledore, making it his, then Vold killed Snape, making it his.

But then in the end Harry's like "in the end it was mine all along, cause I disarmed _________ (I forgot who he said)"

So what's the deal with this? Can someone explain how the Elder's Wand works?


thought it was something like. Draco disarmed Dumbledore "defeating" him in a duel (not much of a duel but whatever) thus making the wand his. Then Harry comes along and beats Draco and the Elder Wand becomes his because the owner (draco) was defeated.

or something like that.

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"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

When you say Harry beat Malfoy that's in the duel in part 1 (that I didn't see). Did Malfoy use the Elder's Wand in that duel?

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KA POWIE

Snape had to kill Dumbeldore because of the Unbreakable Vow. Plus, it was to gain Voledmort's trust, as said in the movie, since Dumbeldore was going to die anyway.

Malfoy did not have the Elder Wand in the duel, because it was in Dumbeldore's grave. Draco defeated Dumbeldore, thus gained ownership of the Elder Wand. Then Harry defeated Draco, who didn't know the Elder Wand was his (prolly didn't even know about it period), and gained ownership of it.

Since Voldemort didn't defeat Harry with his AK (he was just playing dead after being 'killed'- Harry couldn't die then because he owned all 3 of the Deathly Hallows), it never passed back to him. Thus Harry was able to beat Voldemort because he had the allegiance of the wand Voldy was using.

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*spoilers*





Dumbeldore was slowly dying because of a curse, and he knew that Draco was given a mission to kill him, so he decided to let Snape kill him to put him out of his misery and save Draco.

Draco disarmed Dumbledore and become the master of the Elder Wand then, but he didn't take his wand. Snape killed Dumbledore, but since it was under Dumbledore's orders, it didn't count and Snape never took control of the wand. The next year, Harry disarmed Draco and became the master of Draco's wand, and unknowingly the Elder Wand (he didn't actually need to take it, at that point the wand was in Dumbledore's tomb). Voldemort later stole the Elder Wand, but he never mastered because it already acknowledged Harry as its master.

The whole wandlore thing is very complicated, and not fully explained in the movies.

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That you're a cheater. This is a 12-sided die. Chan

he was just playing dead after being 'killed'

yeah that was something I didn't get. Did Draco's mom lie then (but she asked Draco when he wasn't even there so I was a little confused during that scene)

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TheFlyingWolfen posted...
When you say Harry beat Malfoy that's in the duel in part 1 (that I didn't see). Did Malfoy use the Elder's Wand in that duel?

Malfoy didn't even know he was the Elder Wand's owner, but he doesn't have to be using it. The Elder Wand is supposed to go to the strongest - The wand goes to whoever beats its owner, so when Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore, he beat him then gained the wand. Therefore, he was the owner when Harry disarmed him, so Harry became the owner.

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Pirateking2000 posted...
he was just playing dead after being 'killed'

yeah that was something I didn't get. Did Draco's mom lie then (but she asked Draco when he wasn't even there so I was a little confused during that scene)

She lied. She asked Harry if Draco was alive, he said yes so she protected Harry.

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She lied. She asked Harry if Draco was alive, he said yes so she protected Harry.


ahh must have misheard that scene I thought she was asking Draco if Harry was KOd or whatever <shrug> (and it didn't look like Harry replied just moved his eyes a bit)

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ahhh ok i also didn't know about the curse on dumbledore. how'd that happen? I didn't read the 6th or 7th books.

and i had to ask a friend to explain that draco's mom thing as well. but of course i knew harry wasn't dead, cause it's ****ing harry potter and he can't die lulz

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KA POWIE

ahhh ok i also didn't know about the curse on dumbledore. how'd that happen

I think he ****ed up when he tried to destroy the ring.

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*spoilers*




One of Voldemort's Horcruxes, a ring, was cursed and Dumbeldore put it on. He was tempted by the ring because it had the Resurrection Stone in it, and it overrode his common sense.

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Okay, I rolled a 14. What's that mean? Hsu
That you're a cheater. This is a 12-sided die. Chan

Was that in the 7th book that happened? And the stone is why Ron went ape **** on harry (I heard) in the part 1, right?

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KA POWIE

wait, dumb question, snape killed dumbledore in the 6th

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KA POWIE

The thing "Ron went ape**** on Harry" over in Part One was not the Ring or the Stone, but a Locket.

Voldemort had put pieces of his soul into a bunch of magical artifacts so that he'd always be alive if someone killed his physical body. The ring Dumbledore had was one of those artifacts, and the locket we just mentioned was another. All of those need to be destroyed before Voldemort can die for good.

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And the stone is why Ron went ape **** on harry (I heard) in the part 1, right?

It was Slytherin's locket. It kind of corrupts whoever is wearing it.

when did dumbledore put the ring on to curse him?

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KA POWIE

Any of the items Voldemort put pieces of his soul in will corrupt someone who carries it.

I don't know if you remember the second movie/book, Chamber of Secrets, but Tom Riddle's Diary was another one like that and we saw there how it possessed Ron's sister Ginny.

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TheFlyingWolfen posted...
when did dumbledore put the ring on to curse him?

In between the 5th and 6th installments. We never actually see him do it (except maybe in flashback? I forget).

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since this is a questions topic

Why / what was the significance of Snape's patronus spell (sp?) being the same as Lily's?

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It showed that he still loved her, even after all that time.

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Okay, I rolled a 14. What's that mean? Hsu
That you're a cheater. This is a 12-sided die. Chan

Yeah, the Patronus takes a shape of something significant to you, since it requires concentration on a powerful happy memory to conjure.

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From: JaKyL25 | #023
In between the 5th and 6th installments. We never actually see him do it (except maybe in flashback? I forget).

We just see him wearing the ring with a dead hand, and half-ass explanation from dumbledore

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Also to show that snape wasn't on voldemorts side

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that showed that it was snape at the lake that night harry was getting owned by the dementors and not his dad, or his dad's spirit, right?

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KA POWIE

TheFlyingWolfen posted...
that showed that it was snape at the lake that night harry was getting owned by the dementors and not his dad, or his dad's spirit, right?

...No, that was Harry via the time turner.

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No, that was Harry himself who cast the Patronus that saved...himself.

He had to go back in time through use of the Time Tuner to do so.

Harry just thought it was his dad somehow because, well, your gut reaction if you see someone in the night that looks like you is not gonna be to assume it's actually you.

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wait what

I thought they said in the movie that it was Snape at the lake. is my brain making this up?

Snape cast the doe which showed them to the sword

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Yes.

They said in the movie that it was Snape casting the doe patronus in Deathly Hallows Part One to guide Harry.

You're confusing that with the scene in Prisoner of Azkaban with the dementors which was not Snape.

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The dementor thing was Harry. Harry notes that his patronus is a stag. The patronus that appeared at the frozen pond thing was a doe (Snape's patronus apparently)

I thought there was more significance to it being the same as Lily's patronus is all lol

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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2
"There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama

hmmm I think I was confused about what you were confused about

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Donny: They posted the next round for the tournament.
Walter: Donny, shut the f- when do we play?

Snape was the one that guided Harry to the small pond where the Gryffindor sword was in Part 1 with his patronus, iirc (not positive on that, though).

He was secretly helping them the whole time.

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http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2664/7b7aaa038007832d461b28c.jpg

ELDER WAND. IT IS MADE OF ELDER. IT IS NOT A WAND THAT BELONGS TO ELDERS.

Also

Dumbledore is EW master -> Malfoy disarms him on the tower in HBP -> Harry disarms Malfoy at Malfoy Manner -> Harry is EW master.

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XIII_rocks posted...
ELDER WAND. IT IS MADE OF ELDER. IT IS NOT A WAND THAT BELONGS TO ELDERS..

OH MY GOD THE WAND IS MADE OF OLD PEOPLE!?

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Wow I read prisoner of azkaban and didn't know harry had the time turner to save himself with his own patronus lol

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KA POWIE

From: tcaz2 | #008
Snape had to kill Dumbeldore because of the Unbreakable Vow. Plus, it was to gain Voledmort's trust, as said in the movie, since Dumbeldore was going to die anyway.

Malfoy did not have the Elder Wand in the duel, because it was in Dumbeldore's grave. Draco defeated Dumbeldore, thus gained ownership of the Elder Wand. Then Harry defeated Draco, who didn't know the Elder Wand was his (prolly didn't even know about it period), and gained ownership of it.

Since Voldemort didn't defeat Harry with his AK (he was just playing dead after being 'killed'- Harry couldn't die then because he owned all 3 of the Deathly Hallows), it never passed back to him. Thus Harry was able to beat Voldemort because he had the allegiance of the wand Voldy was using.

This sounds like some serious inside wizard baseball (inside quidditch?)

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It makes perfect sense

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The ownership of the Elder Wand reminds me of those 'phantom championships' in wrestling, where people try to figure out who the 'current champions' for various discontinued titles are based on who was the first to beat the last champion, and who was the first to beat that guy, etc.

That's not really a good thing for the outcome of the entire series to hinge on.

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Edge is the man champion

Well he's not anymore, he retired!

CM Punk confirmed on Raw that Cena is "the man."

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If Punk can leave with a title, Edge can!

THE MAN.

It is a weird plot device, but keep in mind the Elder Wand never loses a duel...unless the owner ignores the duel. For Dumbledore, he used Petrificus Totalus on Harry who was under the cloak to make sure Harry didn't do anything stupid, and with this, sacrificed his chance to defend himself against Malfoy. Similarly, Malfoy in Malfoy Manor was hesitant and unwilling to fight because he was unsure he wanted to be on the dark side at all...thus, Harry was able to simply walk up behind Malfoy and take his wand from him. Did Dumbledore plan it this way at the top of the tower in book 6? Unclear. Perhaps upon seeing Malfoy with his wand out, decided it was a perfect situation to let him have the wand without anyone knowing...and he knew Malfoy did not truly want to be on the dark side, so it wouldn't be a big deal for him to have it. According to Dumbledore, doing a wizard a favor is a magical thing. (Harry saved Wormtail's life, Wormtail was eventually forced to do the same...coincidence?)

That's in the books, anyway. In the movies, slight difference: Dumbledore didn't cast Petrificus Totalus on Harry, instead, upon seeing Malfoy, he just let him disarm him straight up.

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