Having said that, I think the launch of 3DS affirmed that it is the role of Nintendo first party content to drive the install base. Those the roles that Ocarina of Time, Star Fox, the Mario games, Kid Icarus and Luigi's Mansion 2 will play. Those are the titles that will drive the install base. We hoped that third party titles at launch would drive that base, and that didn't happen to the degree that we needed.
Reggie Fils-Aime, Head of Nintendo America.
--
Calling Pokemon RBY a top 10 game was the most insane contest jibba-jabba ever Woe unto he who sig bets with the near-invincible Lord High creativename
Blaming third parties when one of your biggest weaknesses is third parties relations is not a good solution. Just goes to show how out of touch Nintendo/Reggie is.
--
"Calling Pokemon RBY a top 10 game was the most insane contest jibba-jabba ever Woe unto he who sig bets with the near-invincible Lord High creativename
So blaming third parties for your system failure is the right way to go?
--
"Calling Pokemon RBY a top 10 game was the most insane contest jibba-jabba ever Woe unto he who sig bets with the near-invincible Lord High creativename
hehe, I wonder who he thinks he's going to fool with the idea that they gave third party developers a chance to shine. $250, low quality 3D, competes directly with a better priced product. Cannibalistic marketing is pretty much a recipe for disaster and why would anyone want to jump onto that?
--
Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
He didn't place sole blame on third-parties, though. If anything, the lack of Nintendo software was a direct response to third-party cries about having to compete with Mario and Zelda. Nintendo gave them them an opportunity to have an open field early on, but they didn't capitalize on it because the install base wasn't there. That's usually how it goes -- third-parties don't want to compete with Nintendo but they won't throw significant support to a platform unless it has already sold well.
So if this is the route that Nintendo is taking, it shows that they've really learned nothing of this failure and they should expect the Wii U to fail as well.
--
"Calling Pokemon RBY a top 10 game was the most insane contest jibba-jabba ever Woe unto he who sig bets with the near-invincible Lord High creativename
ZFS posted... He didn't place sole blame on third-parties, though. If anything, the lack of Nintendo software was a direct response to third-party cries about having to compete with Mario and Zelda. Nintendo gave them them an opportunity to have an open field early on, but they didn't capitalize on it because the install base wasn't there. That's usually how it goes -- third-parties don't want to compete with Nintendo but they won't throw significant support to a platform unless it has already sold well.
If they really held off on software because they thought that was the way to get third parties onto that piece of hardware... what the hell. If you're a third party developer why would you ever try to put something onto the 3DS at launch? I can't imagine Nintendo would legitimately think that third party developers would decide to throw money into the 3DS just because they hadn't put out Mario and Zelda 'yet'.
--
Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
Nintendo's getting what it deserved. Nobody wants to develop for Nintendo for a reason. That aside, it's not why they failed here.
They failed for 2 reasons, which I state over and over so I'll go ahead and do it again.
1. They failed to cater to the "hardcore" gamer by not bringing out any actual games. 2. They failed to cater to the "casual" gamer by naming the thing *3DS* and having no marketing at all for it here. You know what a parent thinks when they see the 3DS? "I'm not buying another DS for you Jimmy. You already have one."
-- GameFAQs isn't going to be merged in with GameSpot or any other site. We're not going to strip out the soul of the site. -CJayC
Bottom line, 3rd party support for the 3DS is bad, but Nintendo's first-party efforts haven't exactly been riveting. We'll see how Super Mario 3DLand turns out, but otherwise, it's been a series of stale, lazy N64 ports.
-- ~Pinkie Pie is the best pony~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
From: neonreaper | #017 If you're a third party developer why would you ever try to put something onto the 3DS at launch?
Well, Nintendo didn't have any heavy hitters at launch, so the third parties wouldn't have to compete with (and get owned by) them out the gate. Isn't it a similar principal to how there's always a crappy Ridge Racer game out for every system's launch? It wouldn't sell if it had to compete with big stuff, but since there's much less big stuff out at launch, it could be successful. I don't think third parties, whether cautious or not, expected 3DS to struggle so badly this early on. Did anyone? It followed up the two biggest successes in gaming history.
That said, I wouldn't blame them, since I don't think third parties have traditionally ever launched huge system sellers at launch. I think much of the system's woe could have been avoided had Nintendo launched at $200, but once again, no one really expected it do so poorly even at $250.
-- Yoblazer: http://i44.tinypic.com/5nw45i.jpg Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
XxSoulxX posted... Blaming third parties when one of your biggest weaknesses is third parties relations is not a good solution. Just goes to show how out of touch Nintendo/Reggie is.
As someone who works for a third party...what he's saying seems pretty sensible here. The reason Nintendo platforms are attractive to develop for is that they do have a large install base (created by killer aps). If fewer people buy a system because there are no Nintendo games on it, then that's bad for us; we don't want to make games on that system.
Of course, the other reality is that the traditional console/handheld market is dieing. EA and Activision both had heavy layoffs in their console studios because console games just aren't the money maker they used to be. It's a bad time for Nintendo to take a risk and launch a system without any first-party software to see if third party software will magically become a killer app of their fanbase.
--
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
"I would characterize the key factors as being… first party games, like Ocarina of Time or Star Fox, should maybe have been made available more quickly after launch. That might have been a missed opportunity. And then secondly, not launching the eShop until June was certainly was something that negatively impacted our momentum. I would point to those two factors as being significant ones that took some of the wind out of our sails following a positive few weeks after launch. As we take away those lessons and apply them to future launches, we need to look at things like key first party titles are launching much earlier in the launch window."
"...we didn't launch it too early, but we did allow too much of a gap from the launch to the time when some of these key products or features were available. We needed to narrow that gap"
...I don't think we did was make sure key [demonstrations] of key features were available to take home. Meaning… where was that key first party title that really showed off the capabilities of the system graphically – and not just from a 3D perspective, but overall graphically – as Ocarina of Time does today? That wasn't there soon enough in the launch window. Where were the digital offerings that rewarded you for taking the device on-the-go, connecting to SpotPass hot spots that we've negotiated? That wasn't available until June. So these were things that consumers knew about, but we weren't paying them off with functionality until months after the product had launched."
But no, you're right. Reggie -- and I see you eventually attributed everything he said to just 'Nintendo' -- solely blames the third party developers for Nintendo's failings.
KamikazePotato posted... I'm pretty sure that every winning console/system so far has followed the same formula:
1. Had 1 or 2 high-profile games at launch, and more soon after. 2. Low price.
Playstation 1 doesn't really follow this formula. (What high profile game did it have at launch?) And it didn't exactly have the lowest price.
For that matter, I'm struggling to think of a high-profile PS2 launch game; most of them didn't come until a year later. And it was also more expensive than both the GC and the DC.
--
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
From: KamikazePotato | #024 1. Had 1 or 2 high-profile games at launch, and more soon after.
I don't think PS2 had this (IIRC, their biggest launch title was Madden). I'm pretty sure the PS1's launch didn't have any huge as well. Battle Arena Toshenden or something. Maybe that was big at the time?
-- Yoblazer: http://i32.tinypic.com/zlf1w7.gif Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
PS2 had some cool games at launch and it was a DVD player. I think "low" price doesn't have to reflect that it is low compared to competitors, just that it's an acceptable price.
PS1 I don't remember, I didn't buy one until FFVII.
--
Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
neonreaper posted... PS2 had some cool games at launch and it was a DVD player. I think "low" price doesn't have to reflect that it is low compared to competitors, just that it's an acceptable price.
How is $250 not an acceptable price? PSP launched at that price. iPhone launched at like $600. Both ended up quite successful.
--
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
PS1 was a special case. Everyone was sick of Nintendo by that time. Nintendo ****ed over so many 3rd party devs by that time that no one wanted anything to do with them. The PS2 didn't have anything amazing for a launch other than riding the PS1's momentum.
From: metroid composite | #030 How is $250 not an acceptable price? PSP launched at that price. iPhone launched at like $600. Both ended up quite successful.
I'm sure the 3DS will end up successful as well, but not at its launch price with its launch library. IIRC, both PSP and iPhone needed price cuts before they took off. There's no way an iPhone is anywhere near $600 now, right?
-- Yoblazer: http://8board.webs.com/ariel.jpg Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
From: the icon ownz all | Posted: 8/10/2011 1:20:08 PM | #023 Also said in that article:
"I would characterize the key factors as being… first party games, like Ocarina of Time or Star Fox, should maybe have been made available more quickly after launch. That might have been a missed opportunity. And then secondly, not launching the eShop until June was certainly was something that negatively impacted our momentum. I would point to those two factors as being significant ones that took some of the wind out of our sails following a positive few weeks after launch. As we take away those lessons and apply them to future launches, we need to look at things like key first party titles are launching much earlier in the launch window."
"...we didn't launch it too early, but we did allow too much of a gap from the launch to the time when some of these key products or features were available. We needed to narrow that gap"
...I don't think we did was make sure key [demonstrations] of key features were available to take home. Meaning… where was that key first party title that really showed off the capabilities of the system graphically – and not just from a 3D perspective, but overall graphically – as Ocarina of Time does today? That wasn't there soon enough in the launch window. Where were the digital offerings that rewarded you for taking the device on-the-go, connecting to SpotPass hot spots that we've negotiated? That wasn't available until June. So these were things that consumers knew about, but we weren't paying them off with functionality until months after the product had launched."
But no, you're right. Reggie -- and I see you eventually attributed everything he said to just 'Nintendo' -- solely blames the third party developers for Nintendo's failings.
and I see you eventually attributed everything he said to just 'Nintendo
And since he is the head of Nintendo of America, I don't see anything wrong with that. Or would it make you feel better of naming individuals every time something comes up, instead of the company they represent?
You poorly misrepresented the story in yet another shot at a company you feel betrayed you and/or murdered your family. Reggie is one -- admittedly very valuable -- part of a very large corporation; everything he says cannot be directly tied back to his employer. In the months after the 3DS launch, Reggie said he had a lot of fun with Steel Diver and thinks it offers more value than many games available on iOS. If you were talking about that story, you might have said "Nintendo slams Apple, believes launch line-up is better than entire iOS catalogue" or something.
There are certainly times when you can attribute Reggie's words to Nintendo's company policy. A casual interview with him in which he says one of the issues is that Nintendo overestimated the public's demand for and value of third party software is not one you can say 'Nintendo is blaming third party developers for the poor response to the 3DS.'
neonreaper posted... If they really held off on software because they thought that was the way to get third parties onto that piece of hardware... what the hell. If you're a third party developer why would you ever try to put something onto the 3DS at launch? I can't imagine Nintendo would legitimately think that third party developers would decide to throw money into the 3DS just because they hadn't put out Mario and Zelda 'yet'.
Well, it's easy to question it now, but the 3DS had universal support when it was announced. All these new games were announced at E3, and everyone assumed the system would sell like crazy right out of the gate. It's the successor to the best-selling platform ever, after all. I think the idea was to let third-parties carve out a segment for themselves early, and get people buying non-Nintendo games until the holidays. I mean, I think it's pretty clear Nintendo could have launched with OoT, but they held it back so Capcom and Ubisoft could headline the system. It didn't work out how they thought, though, and that's pretty much what Reggie is saying. Nintendo drives the growth of their platforms and third-parties cash-in on the high install base. The 3DS certainly had a ton of other issues going against it, but software was the biggest problem. Why spend $250 for Dead or Alive and Ghost Recon?
There are certainly times when you can attribute Reggie's words to Nintendo's company policy. A casual interview with him in which he says one of the issues is that Nintendo overestimated the public's demand for and value of third party software is not one you can say 'Nintendo is blaming third party developers for the poor response to the 3DS.'
This. Honestly, there's no excuse for the wording of the OP.
-- ~Pinkie Pie is the best pony~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp
metroid composite posted... neonreaper posted... PS2 had some cool games at launch and it was a DVD player. I think "low" price doesn't have to reflect that it is low compared to competitors, just that it's an acceptable price.
How is $250 not an acceptable price? PSP launched at that price. iPhone launched at like $600. Both ended up quite successful.
I didn't say it wasn't acceptable, or at least I didn't mean to imply it.
--
Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter? Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.
I think the people that bash Nintendo the most are their biggest fans. Everybody loved the NES, and SNES. People feel like Nintendo betrayed them for the sake of gaining more casual players. At least that's how I feel, and how I always saw it. They used to make great games.
-- GameFAQs isn't going to be merged in with GameSpot or any other site. We're not going to strip out the soul of the site. -CJayC
I don't play console wars! All three companies do some good, some bad. This isn't Nintendo being dumb, though. They've assessed the 3DS situation pretty rationally..
Looks vaguely cool. Crazy cast, probably decent single player as well. It's not great, I imagine, but it could be fun as a first 3DS game. I don't really want to buy a port.
--
"God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto