Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 147: "There Can Only Be ONEEEEE"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Christian took his loss to DDP at mania so well though.

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Wanglicious posted...
it's not "person i like", sep.

dragon losing to wade is a problem because he's the MITB guy, Wade isn't. Dragon's the one that's literally 1 move away from being with the belt (as Del Rio proved), but he lost just now. now this serves two functions far as i can tell: 1) it puts Wade into the ME scene again. which is good as that's where he belongs. but you're also risking 2) it makes Dragon look like he can't hang with the ME scene. the feud is obviously not over and it seems clear they'll be pushing this towards a MITB briefcase match. that is the one Dragon needs to win. but Wade also needs to prove himself by beating ME level guys on SD, of which uhh.... is Morrison around? you could try Christian too at this point. it's not a bad angle necessarily, however one thing it did do, without giving any doubts in either direction, is say the MITB winner, your "entry level" ME guy, is inferior to someone else. that would be the problem he's got with that match.

First, I was saying that's what it LOOKED like, since he didn't clarify until later and just went "Sheamus lost, DB lost, Christian lost, this sucked."

He clarified after, which I acknowledged.

The reason it's not a problem, however, is that he doesn't cash in until WM. What do you do for all that time? Have him go undefeated and make people wonder how he never became #1 contender naturally? No, of course not. He's gotta have feuds, and in this case, a loss would have hurt Wade more.

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I'll admit that the end was BETTER than the middle, but like I said, I thought Christian was believably in character the entire time, and it was a marvel to watch him sink to farther and farther depths and sell his soul for gold.

The key to the whole thing is the 5-day taste he got of it. It doesn't work as well if he still had never had it and lost it so soon, under such questionable circumstances.

EDIT: If you want another literary parallel, think Gollum.

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Oh right, the "where does Christian go from here" point

From: JaKyL25 | #196
Get other people over. Daniel Bryan and Sheamus come to mind.

Beating Christian is pretty played out now though. Orton has completely demolished him. Sheamus already made him run away. Not much ground to gain from beating him. How about verbally? No, there's never going to be any way to hit him on the mic harder than Edge did tonight. He's pretty much at the lowest point he can get to already, going over him isn't a very big deal (in theory it is because "former champ" but let's be honest, just because the WWE says "this guy is X" doesn't mean he looks it) now. He's not Jericho, he doesn't have Jericho's resume to let him maintain credibility, and even Jericho really pushed the "guy who can always look credible even if he's lost a lot lately" thing too far and started looking too bad for people to really get over against him. I can't imagine Christian pulling it off better with less of a resume to fall back on and such a complete defeat in every way tonight.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I agree that right now is not a good time for Christian to be doing anything with the destruction his character just took.

That's why I propose Henry taking him out for at least a few weeks. Let the dust settle on some new stuff and then when he comes back something should be waiting for him.

I could totally see him desperately feuding with Bryan over the MitB briefcase.

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PepsiPlunge posted...
FFD, if you have a GIF folder somewhere, I demand a link.

Just on the computer and I upload as necessary. Very inconvenient, but it works.

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Wade Barrett, and I'm hoping that's the HiaC match, because Orton vs. Henry is intriguing but I sure as hell don't want it in the cell.

I actually feel like the cell would be optimal for Orton/Henry. It's a monster heel and a guy primarily useful in more hardcore type matches.

You know that going into pretty much any movie that evil will lose. The point is the journey, and how that journey concludes.

I feel like bad guys win in wrestling more often than movies. Or at least, that they SHOULD once in a while. This is a time I would have liked to see it happen.

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If Christian gets taken out (especially by Mark Henry with the roll he's on right now), does he come back as a heel though? People supported him up until a while into his heel run, he got a lot of support tonight, are people actually going to keep booing him or will they just say "Yay Christians back go challenge Mark Henry please yay"?

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

I wouldn't be against it if they could make it work logically. This arc is done, if finding redemption is the next step for Christian after a short layoff, I think it can be done.

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i think henry will end up as orton's HIAC opponent for sure

something about being locked in a cage with an unstoppable beast sounds compelling

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And god damn there are never any good stories to be told ABOUT Orton. Every story he's in is just about him as a force of nature against the other guy it feels like.

At least with SuperCena you have a man fighting for what he believes in, protecting a world that hates and fears him (not really "fears" but I couldn't resist).

Orton is just so...blah as a character. Maybe a feud with Henry would be good for him. We can explore whether or not Orton has it in him to fight for what's right, or just to fight for himself.

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Meanwhile:

that ryder push

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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq.
(aka not Krakenprophet)

There's a really good story to be told about Orton. Actually tackle the whole "anger management issues" thing a bit. I mean they started to point out that it's not necessarily a good thing for him to have it in this feud, but then they just gave him a No DQ match and switched to "good thing Orton is a complete psychopath who tries to cripple people for lulz, it makes him a great champion!" stuff. Make a point of his temper really causing him problems that don't just get handwaved immediately.

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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

Punch Drunk Love starring Randy Orton

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Yeah a much better path for the story to have taken there was Orton to keep getting DQed in his return matches... then eventually have a no DQ match for the blowoff where Orton kills him. Christian getting zero defenses makes him look kinda feeble. Like, you want him to not come off as "credible" that's fine. I'm not saying Christian ever needs to beat Orton cleanly in the feud. But he still needs to put the good guy in some sort of distress (a defense or two via DQ would do that) otherwise I don't think the storytelling is very effective.

The only way it works as a story is if the conflict wasn't meant to be the point and it's entirely meant for Christian's character to develop. The ultimate result at this point is for Christian to realize that his style of heelish tactics don't work. Then you've got two paths to take... 1. Christian turns face. This is stupid. Jakyl should be laughed at for suggesting this, considering Christian turned heel during the feud. That just makes the storyline completely pointless. 2. The better path: Christian uses this as a motivation and evolves his heel tactics to the point where they work. Edge showing up to blast Christian could just as well be a gateway to this considering Edge had those most success as a super schemer heel. Unfortunately, this isn't how it's going to go because it would involve Orton losing the feud, at least temporarily, and well, that doesn't happen.

In short, I agree with Panthera on the Orton/Christian feud so far, but it's not past redemption if the story isn't quite over. And I realize that I'm endorsing this terrible feud go on for even longer but it's not like anything else would be all that intriguing at the moment.

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I also disagree that pro wrestling storylines always resolve with "the good guy wins." That's not just the case. In fact, look at all the good storylines of the 90s and you'll find very strong heels at the backbone of them, often outright beating good guys to "resolve" the smaller storylines. nWo in WCW, and the Corporation/Vince McMahon in WWF. I mean, sure, these groups/individuals were eventually defeated... but look at the guys who went against the nWo for instance before Sting came along and (should have, at least) taken them down. Piper, Luger, DDP, etc etc.

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Now all that being said unlike most of you the Nash involvement in the title feud intrigues me a ton. Yeah they can botch it but I see more ways to not botch it than to botch it. Hell even Nash getting a title reign by some fluke is not necessarily the worst thing in the world to me if done right. You may get some bad matches there but it's fresh, at least. <_<

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From: JaKyL25 | #097
Lost in all this bickering is the classic brawl that Orton and Christian put on tonight.

You'd have to be the most ardent Orton hater to crap on that one! MotN easily, MotY candidate, best match of their entire feud and should (HOPEFULLY) be the feud ender. It was booked 1,000,000% perfectly from start to ****ing finish.

It was a good match but I don't like either guy and I can't muster any excitement for their FOURTH PPV match in a row, fifth match of their feud and given that Christian's rematch needs to happen guaranteed to NOT be the feud ender.

The finish could have been a little better I think. I would have liked Christian's final comeback to have been more than just one whack with a kendo stick, or at least for the counter to have come off a Killswitch attempt rather than a random crossbody. But at least he didn't resort to eating the ringpost yet again.

MotY candidate is going a little far. I mean, MitB still happened.

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Black Turtle spilled my diet soda!

That wasn't even the match of the show. >_>

I honestly hated the Christian/Orton thing. It was absolutely stupid the difference in who got all the important spots and overall got EVERYTHING good out of that fight. Going down a list of stuff leading towards them just pretty much stroking Randy's ego and killing Christian's credibility:

1. Edge's appearance at all. Starts out with pop for him, no reason to come out. Initially seems like a cheap way to get get a pop, but then becomes cheap heat. Also riding those coat tails.

2. Nearly no response from Christian towards Edge in what he said at all. Did he even acknowledge Edge after he came to the ring? I mean, I know it'll be used later in either "he was right, I need to man up" or "he was right, I need to plan better" way, but having practically no reaction when it was said to his face is weird.

3. Christian tries to run away, Orton chases him down, catches him before he goes anywhere, and drags him to the ring while beating him.

4. Major spots Randy gets through the fight end up putting Christian through like three tables (and I think he did one of those three twice), steel chair beating, breaking a kendo stick on him, ddt through garbage can, rko into steel stairs. Christian's major spots include a couple whaps with a kendo stick, and I think landing the killswitch before taking that steel chair beating.

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KJH posted...
2. Nearly no response from Christian towards Edge in what he said at all. Did he even acknowledge Edge after he came to the ring? I mean, I know it'll be used later in either "he was right, I need to man up" or "he was right, I need to plan better" way, but having practically no reaction when it was said to his face is weird.

...What? He like, totally flipped out over it.

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SEP Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
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why is kevin nash on my television

it's still 2011 right? not 1998

don't try to tell me there's interesting places this can go

kevin nash is on my television

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Black Turtle spilled my diet soda!

Kevin Nash haterz

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he can stay if he brings graphs

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Black Turtle spilled my diet soda!

Dauntless Hunter posted...
why is kevin nash on my television

it's still 2011 right? not 1998

don't try to tell me there's interesting places this can go

kevin nash is on my television

My feelings on the finish. Id be less upset if it were say Jericho or someone relevent.

Although given my feelings about Nash this couldve been I dunno David Flair and Id still be more okay with it.

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Jericho brings less intrigue than Nash to the table. Nash's ties with HHH are the big reason this is going to be interesting.

Only guy who's a better choice than Nash is Shawn Michaels on that front. But that'd take away from the whole retirement thing so.

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No, Nash's ties to Triple H are what make this terrible.

I do not want a story about Triple H. I do not want a story about the Kliq. I do not even want a story about Alberto Del Rio.

I want a story about John Cena and CM Punk.

You know, that thing that was the best story that happened in a decade?

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Black Turtle spilled my diet soda!

Dauntless Hunter posted...
No, Nash's ties to Triple H are what make this terrible.

I do not want a story about Triple H. I do not want a story about the Kliq. I do not even want a story about Alberto Del Rio.

I want a story about John Cena and CM Punk.

You know, that thing that was the best story that happened in a decade?

This exactly. Way to take a great refreshing exciting angle and then turn it into a plot about the damn Kliq for the millionth time. You'd think all of those guys being retired or semi-retired or out of talent would make them go away but NO. The only way this turns out well is if CM punk GTS's Nash and trips on Monday and neither are ever heard from again, resulting in Austin taking over Raw.

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Batista would have fit too, Lopen!

And it would explain lack of Anon GM lately too!

BATISTA FOR GM STILL GOING STROOOOOOONG

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Circle gets the Scare!
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This is still about Cena vs Punk. Triple H is just the guy that's making things confusing at the moment, which is good. Take away HHH and where does the feud go from here? If Cena won tonight, or Punk won tonight? Rematch? Oh goodie. The feud would either be over or approaching formulaic and boring like the Orton/Christian feud.

Until HHH books himself in a title match or something, it's not about Triple H. He's just a prop. He's like the Vince McMahon in the Rock/Austin feud, or something.

Don't get me wrong... they could have made this feud work with just Punk and Cena but they already took the wrong turn there when they had Punk return in one week. But I think the course they're taking will help the feud stay fresh. Well, can, anyway. I'm still not sure I trust WWE to do the storyline right, but I think it's better than either side just straight up winning.

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Oh and yeah Batista (or Orton, I suppose... think about that) is actually the best pick for this. Forgot about him.

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Triple H being there isn't necessary. Now the question if HHH is responsible for Nash pops up, and the focus goes on him rather than where it should be in Cena/Punk. They really screwed the pooch on this one.

You're thinking too narrow, there... the bigger question is if John Cena is responsible for Triple H is responsible for Nash. You don't think Punk is going to suggest this?

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Summing up my thoughts on Summerslam:

Liked Barrett winning because I'm a Barrett fan. Didn't quite like the rest of the show. Sorry, but I can't do like you guys and rationalize whether the long-term is good or not. All I know is to me, tonight's ppv wasn't really that fun.

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Random note I think it's funny that Jakyl's defending the SD main event like mad and I'm defending the Raw main event like mad. We just need someone else to defend the other bad matches.

Who wants Beth/Kelly Kelly.

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Oh, Ive got that one.

Its a key step in Beth Phoenix's attempt to completely re-invent herself and needed this setback as an excuse to unveil the new her who then squashes K2

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Am I the only one who wants the Divas of Doom to change their names to the Ladies of Doom and start coming out in giant spiked shoulder pads and facepaint

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Nothing wrong with the Diva's match. It pissed off Beth so she can go aggro and it established Kelly Kelly as a threat so when she does get wrecked it matters more.

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

I just reread an article about Hawk about an hour ago so I am down for some Legion of Doom stuff, but not from the Divas >_>

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

Well I guess me not particularly liking the Legion of Doom probably makes me cooler with them being mocked... or whatever you'd call it, since I would like them to dominate in this persona so I dunno if mock is the right word

Seriously this was the first thought I had when they revealed their name <_<

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Another random thought on that-- I have a problem with a team that has a problem with the current state of women's wrestling to have "divas" in their name. You'd think one of their first acts to help legitimize the divas division would be to call the division the women's division again.

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Well there is an issue with it being the Divas title and not the Women's title. Or they could be calling themselves the women of doom or something and WWE is like "nope divas". They havent cut a promo or anything yet

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

And to rebrand things they kinda need the power of the title!

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

Well I agree that they'd need the title to do that, yeah.

I personally don't think they're thinking that way though and are just ignoring the divas thing cause WWE management doesn't want that name besmirched. So they're probably gonna embrace the "diva" thing but still destroy things.

Or just fizzle out if tonight is any indication !

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From: Lopen | #229
This is still about Cena vs Punk. Triple H is just the guy that's making things confusing at the moment, which is good. Take away HHH and where does the feud go from here? If Cena won tonight, or Punk won tonight? Rematch? Oh goodie. The feud would either be over or approaching formulaic and boring like the Orton/Christian feud.

Until HHH books himself in a title match or something, it's not about Triple H. He's just a prop. He's like the Vince McMahon in the Rock/Austin feud, or something.

Don't get me wrong... they could have made this feud work with just Punk and Cena but they already took the wrong turn there when they had Punk return in one week. But I think the course they're taking will help the feud stay fresh. Well, can, anyway. I'm still not sure I trust WWE to do the storyline right, but I think it's better than either side just straight up winning.

What you said was true until the moment KEVIN NASH WAS ON MY TELEVISION.

Let's say they just stopped the show right before that. You still have the question about whether Triple H knowingly made a bad call or not, whether Punk was in on it or not, and how Cena will respond. This storyline is still about Cena and Punk: who's really the best, who's really the sellout, and how will they settle this. Triple H is only there as the embodiment of corporate control, not a primary character.

But once Kevin Nash starts assaulting Punk out of the blue, it's no longer about any of that. It's about Triple H and his Kliq buddies and their reign of terror. Cena and Punk are still involved, but it's not ABOUT them anymore. It could be anyone in their places, all they serve as is opposition to the Corporate Kliq, who are now the driving force of this storyline.

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Black Turtle spilled my diet soda!

No that is very wrong.

Well actually you can work with it except for your last paragraph about Nash.


Trips was shocked to see Nash and ran down to see what happened and couldnt do anything once Del Rio was in the ring. He was visibly stunned by what was going on. Everything you said can still hold without anything being about the Kliq, just it being Del Rio hired Nash in order to stir the pot.

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

Nah. That's still becoming formulaic. "Guest referee makes bad call." We've seen this ten times, and it heavily suggests that Punk is in league with Triple H and nothing to the contrary, which is not good. Limits speculation.

The Nash attack afterwards makes things really mucky. Did Del Rio pay him off to get an easy cash in? Did Triple H bring him in to teach Punk respect and/or give Del Rio an easy cash in? Why didn't John Cena come out and help? He helps everyone else. Is Nash just doing stuff because he can?

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It being NASH is the problem though.

If it were like Brodus Clay or Even Zack freakign Ryder, or Sid Vicious, or Bret the Hitman Hart, or Dolph Ziggler, or Tyson Tomko, or REALLY anyone else that isnt named Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, or Shawn Michaels this whole situation would be different.

Kevin Nash: hired gun at his age looking as awful as he does is just bad bad bad and it carries all that potential Kliq crap back into focus where NO ONE wants it.

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You could argue that Trips wants Cena to have the title, so he purposely has Punk win so he can lose to the cash in, and to tempt the cash in he has Nash come in to cause some damage. After that he doesnt care what happens with Mysterio because he gives Cena the next shot and he no longer has to worry about Del Rio cashing in so Cena has the strap and he can control all aspects and factors to protect the title so he has it to go against Rock at mania

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

From: edwardsdv | #247
It being NASH is the problem though.

If it were like Brodus Clay or Even Zack freakign Ryder, or Sid Vicious, or Bret the Hitman Hart, or Dolph Ziggler, or Tyson Tomko, or REALLY anyone else that isnt named Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, or Shawn Michaels this whole situation would be different.

Kevin Nash: hired gun at his age looking as awful as he does is just bad bad bad and it carries all that potential Kliq crap back into focus where NO ONE wants it.

See I don't think it's going to be a big focus. If this were TNA? Yeah I'd be skeptical. I don't trust WWE for much these days but I do think they know better than to make a storyline become something about last decade's news. Yeah it makes it point to Triple H a bit more than normal-- but so what-- that's a good thing as it keeps people guessing. Cena not coming out to help (he was clearly mostly okay-- enough to do a run in-- given he was arguing with Triple H about the finish) is going to keep Cena in the picture. Well that and Cena being the loser.

Actually I think the foot under the ropes thing is the bigger problem than the Nash run in. I'd rather have Cena lost cleanly-- then this could even implicate Cena directly in that "he hired Nash to do damage because he can't beat Punk legit and wants ADR to have it cause he's an easier match." It could still imply that but it's a bigger stretch now.

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Know exactly where WWE is going....

Del Rio has belt, right?

Mysterio gets to face Champion on RAW.

It's the only way Hunter can keep Mysterio from leaving, to give him the strap. It wouldn't be right for Punk to lose it to Rey, especially under the "Best in the World" moniker (which Punk right now IMHO is), but Del Rio... that would be acceptable....

However..... does Mysterio REALLY need to devalue the WWE strap the way he did the World Heavyweight Championship back when he was "Champion"?

Bottom line, Hunter needs Rey, just like he needs Cena. They BOTH bring in beaucoup bucks for the WWE in merchandise sales. This is where the WWE strap is headed. Count on it.

I'm sure storyline with Nash involves Hunter, after all, the MSG incident, right? They're buddies. But Nash is beyond prime... even the facelift can't help him. I just don't like how Punk got screwed...

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