Board 8 > Official Star Wars Jedi Ranking Topics (In terms of skill) *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

And I've tried to clear it up, I don't necessarily want him dead, I want the rights of Star Wars in more deserving hands, because he's worn out his welcome.

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From: Murphiroth | #100
Jacen turns way, way later. In the series after the NJO, which was godawful.

But yeah, Han and Leia have terrible luck. I assume you know the big death that happens in the first book of the NJO? The author actually got death threats for it.

Uuuuum, Chewbacca? I know he got crushed by a moon, which I still wtf about.

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Oh man I'm so excited to read this Thrawn Trilogy comic book series now. SO EXCITED.

I also found a Dark Empire comic book, which also features EU Luke, any idea what that is?

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The author actually got death threats for it.

Putting them in the same conversation as Twilight and Sonic fans.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Yep. I thought it was awesome, he goes out like a champ.

*SPOILERS, though I guess you already know a lot of this stuff, Halo*















The Yuuzhan Vong basically drop a moon on the planet Han, Chewie, and Anakin are on. It's a slow thing, so the people know they're doomed, and Han stays until the last minute ferrying people out. At the end, the planet is buckling from the strain and the Falcon is overloaded with refugees, and Chewbacca literally hurls Anakin on board just as the planet breaking up tosses the Falcon away. Han tries to get back and can't, and the last thing he sees of Chewie is him defiantly raising his fists and roaring at the moon coming down on the planet.

Badass.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

The EU has a lot of sad deaths. It's like Luke, Han, and Leia are the only ones who seem to be living now... I of course don't know for sure, but that's what it seems like.

What about Kyle Katarn? I know he's a big character in the New Jedi Order or so, I don't know a whole lot about him though.

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Chewy dies?

What the F***? EU sucks.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

At least it took a moon to kill him off.

IIRC, the author defended his decision somewhere... forgot where.

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My Little Phineas and Ferb: Summer is Magic!

ShadowHalo17 posted...
Oh man I'm so excited to read this Thrawn Trilogy comic book series now. SO EXCITED.

I also found a Dark Empire comic book, which also features EU Luke, any idea what that is?

Opinions are mixed on Dark Empire. I enjoyed it and its sequel. It's the series where Palpatine is resurrected in a clone body and Luke becomes his apprentice for a while. There's even a nifty parallel with Episode III where Luke crash lands a huge warship on Coruscant with the aid of the Force.

They even manage to explain Palps' resurrection in a way that actually makes sense and even fits in with the prequels and his desire to live forever.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

Getting Dark Empire.

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I enjoyed it and its sequel. It's the series where Palpatine is resurrected in a clone body and Luke becomes his apprentice for a while.

wat

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Luke was faking falling to the Dark Side so he could infiltrate Palpatine's command or something to that effect.

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Lucas has decreed that none of the big three can be shown dying, which has painted the EU into a corner, since Luke is already dead in the Legacy comics.

And yeah, Chewie's dead, but it was an editorial decision. Initially they intended to kill off one of the big three but Lucas nixed that and apparently selected Chewie.

And Kyle Katarn is alive and kicking, beard and all. He's the NJO's Battlemaster, basically their lightsaber trainer, and he's probably one of the top duelists of the era. He did almost get killed by Jacen though.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

ShadowHalo17 posted...
Luke was faking falling to the Dark Side so he could infiltrate Palpatine's command or something to that effect.

That's a little less stupid, I guess.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

TheRock1525 posted...
ShadowHalo17 posted...
Luke was faking falling to the Dark Side so he could infiltrate Palpatine's command or something to that effect.

That's a little less stupid, I guess.

There were also hints that a part of him wanted to see what was so alluring to his father. It's fairly interesting.

And one of the big plot points is that Luke thought he could handle dipping into the Dark Side to fool Palpatine, but that it was so addictive that he found it hard to turn away from.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

When do the Legacy comics take place and how is Luke dead in them? Unless they take place in the distant future, which would make sense for him to be "dead", but we know he can't actually completely die because lol Force Ghost.

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Was it one of those things where he inexplicably fell to the dark side, only for it to be revealed at the end that he was really working against the Emperor, or was it known largely from the beginning?

There were also hints that a part of him wanted to see what was so alluring to his father. It's fairly interesting.

Ah, so Luke is a moron. I get it now.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Luke isn't a moron, the desire to understand what a loved one experienced is pretty primal.

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I think he tried to become one with the force when he fought Leia. Or something.

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ShadowHalo17 posted...
Luke isn't a moron, the desire to understand what a loved one experienced is pretty primal.

My dad can become addicted to crack and I can find out why he became addicted to crack without actually trying crack.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

You're comparing crack to the Dark Side of the Force, not the same thing. Dark Side is a lot more alluring.

Anyway, it seems I have some Legacy Comics, Darth Talon is on one of the covers, that intrigues me.

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Is the Dark Side that alluring? Throughout the movies, the Dark Side looks like crap, to be quite honest. In fact, maybe if Luke went "God, the Dark Side really sucks, why would my dad join it?"

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Yeah crack, a substance that we know plenty about is the same as The Dark Side of the Force, a fictional force with spiritual connotations.

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Not spiritual. It's all about dem midichlorians.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Here's the thing.

Jedi: Training and hard work to gain even a modicum of power or skill, a lot of rules and restrictions, you really have to be mindful of everything, respect everything, it's a lot more strain, but the payoff will be immense for those who stick with it.

Sith, on the other hand, get everything instantly. All of that power you see those strong Jedi have? You can get it almost immediately if you turn to the Dark Side. You also get even more power, more ways to do things, less restrictions and rules, a lot more freedom.

So yeah, it's more alluring.

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And you always end up disfigured or dead when you join the Dark Side.

Besides, if it's this obvious then why would Luke need to join it to investigate it? Couldn't he clearly see "The Dark Side is the easier, more powerful way, that's probably why my dad joined the Dark Side" bada-bing, bada-boom. This just sounds like an awful excuse to do something CAH-RAZY and make Luke a Sith. Though the inability to turn away at the very least is a bit intriguing.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

There's more to the Dark Side than what I said, that's just the basics. There's more to it than that, did you ever wonder why the Jedi were so adamant about teaching their Padawans to resist the Dark Side? They want to stay away from certain emotions because they have to resist the lure of the Dark Side, which is very great. They lost a whole bunch of Jedi to it in the Clone Wars and in every war before that, it's a lot deeper than you think.

And it doesn't always disfigure you, if you recall, all Anakin got was the badass yellow eyes. And Sidious managed to keep a non-disfigured appearance for a long time using the Force. There are other examples too. And besides, with as much power as they get, a little appearance faltering is the least of their concerns. They're not trying to be a pimp.

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And that was an inherent flaw with the old Jedi Council. They spent so much time preaching against the Dark Side, yet they never really explained why having feelings means you'll fall to the Dark Side. The reason why Luke was one of the few to resist the allure of the Dark Side in the films because he was allowed to be emotional, whereas they tried to train the old Jedi to be robots, and it failed miserably.

Look, if you like it then you like it. Personally, I find the whole concept incredibly stupid.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

There is literally a crack vs dark side of the force debate in this topic.

This happened. Literally. Happened.

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Let's get drunk and make bad decisions

Well, it's addicting and it turns your eyes yellow.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

No, you're right, the teachings of the Old Jedi Order were indeed flawed, that's why there aren't as many Jedi turning to the Dark Side in the New Jedi Order, because they're allowed to express more emotion, and more importantly, they're allowed to love.

That doesn't change that the Dark Side is still very tempting to some. Jacen Solo for example.

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ShadowHalo17 posted...
When do the Legacy comics take place and how is Luke dead in them? Unless they take place in the distant future, which would make sense for him to be "dead", but we know he can't actually completely die because lol Force Ghost.

Legacy is something like 125-150 years after RotJ. I don't really like them too much, as they basically screwed the book writers into a corner because now the books have to head in that direction.

Luke does show up in them as a Force Ghost helping his descendant Cade. And R2 is still up and running.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

ShadowHalo17 posted...
No, you're right, the teachings of the Old Jedi Order were indeed flawed, that's why there aren't as many Jedi turning to the Dark Side in the New Jedi Order, because they're allowed to express more emotion, and more importantly, they're allowed to love.

That doesn't change that the Dark Side is still very tempting to some. Jacen Solo for example.

Jacen's turn is a prime example of how the Dark Side corrupts you. Jacen turned due to a vision that showed that if he didn't, he'd end up killing Luke and the galaxy would fall into chaos. His initial intentions were to bring order and peace to the galaxy, and he truly meant it. Like Luke, he initially thought he could control the Dark Side. More accurately, he thought that there was no real Dark or Light, only the intentions of the wielder. It didn't work out, because the more he utilized the Dark Side's power, the more vicious and violent he became.

The only disfigurement he ended up with were the yellowed eyes.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

The only disfigurement he ended up with were the yellowed eyes.

And death.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Death isn't disfigurement.

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TheRock1525 posted...
And you always end up disfigured or dead when you join the Dark Side.

Besides, if it's this obvious then why would Luke need to join it to investigate it? Couldn't he clearly see "The Dark Side is the easier, more powerful way, that's probably why my dad joined the Dark Side" bada-bing, bada-boom. This just sounds like an awful excuse to do something CAH-RAZY and make Luke a Sith. Though the inability to turn away at the very least is a bit intriguing.

Well, you have to consider that for the most part Luke is self taught. He didn't spend much time with Yoda or Obi-Wan. At the time of the Emperor's resurrection, he had spent a lot of time just scouring the galaxy for any record of Jedi teachings that might have survived the purge. Suddenly Palpatine pops back up and he's obviously gonna be the most knowledgeable guy around. Also, Luke had snuck onto the planet Byss which is the Empire's greatest stronghold and was kind of stuck there when Palps confronted him, so he didn't have too much choice.

From Wookieepedia...

Faced with an impossible situation, and deeply impressed by the power of the Emperor, his charismatic presence, his undoubted genius and deep knowledge of both sides of the Force, Luke acquiesced to becoming his apprentice.

Basically part of it was Palps manipulating him and talking him into it like he did with Anakin, but playing on Luke's desire for knowledge of the Force. Luke did intend to simply learn what he could but he underestimated the allure of the Dark Side, which Palps was probably counting on. Leia helps talk him back, though.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

From: Murphiroth | #132
Luke does show up in them as a Force Ghost helping his descendant Cade. And R2 is still up and running.

And oh yeah, I remember hearing about Cade. And R2? Hell yeah, I've always seen him as one of the biggest heroes of the Star Wars universe. Because without him, everyone would have been dead from the beginning.

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TheRock1525 posted...
The only disfigurement he ended up with were the yellowed eyes.

And death.

Granted, but he came very, very close to succeeding in his goals at times. The only things that stopped him were his utter fear of Luke and the fact that even as a Sith he had trouble fighting his sister, and even stopped fighting her to protect his daugher.

Death is nothing to the Sith. It's expected, especially with the Rule of Two. The way they look at it is if someone kills you then clearly you weren't strong enough.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
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ShadowHalo17 posted...
From: Murphiroth | #132
Luke does show up in them as a Force Ghost helping his descendant Cade. And R2 is still up and running.

And oh yeah, I remember hearing about Cade. And R2? Hell yeah, I've always seen him as one of the biggest heroes of the Star Wars universe. Because without him, everyone would have been dead from the beginning.

Heck yeah. R2 is freaking awesome. There's a lot of things that wouldn't have happened if he'd not been around.

The fact that he's ancient and outdated even in the early EU is icing on the cake. Though they do upgrade him occasionally. And the reason he and 3P0 have so much personality? They don't get their memories wiped every so often like most droids. R2 has never had his wiped and 3P0 only did after RotS.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

Yeah I know, one of the coolest things about R2 is that he knows and remembers EVERYTHING that's happened throughout the movies and the EU.

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ShadowHalo17 posted...
Death isn't disfigurement.

As I said earlier:

And you always end up disfigured or dead when you join the Dark Side.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

Oh I missed the dead part.

Everyone dies though, so that's irrelevant. And as a Sith, you actually have more chance of living longer so long as you gain enough power.

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But Sith's death is usually caused by the Dark Side.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

TheRock1525 posted...
But Sith's death is usually caused by the Dark Side.

The thing is that they don't care. The Sith see nothing but an easy path to power.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

Murphiroth posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
But Sith's death is usually caused by the Dark Side.

The thing is that they don't care. The Sith see nothing but an easy path to power.

I think we're arguing in a circle here. I think a large point to the Star Wars franchise is that the Dark Side is the quick and easy way to power, but in the end it will be ultimately you're undoing. Star Wars has always had a very Shakespearean sense of Good and Evil.

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TheRock ~ Death By Misadventure, Not Suicide
"Would've liked to see that." - Ayuyu on my boner

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_New_Jedi_Order#Entries

So all of these titles in the Entries list are the books I should read? What about those cancelled novels, what's up with those?

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ShadowHalo17 posted...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_New_Jedi_Order#Entries

So all of these titles in the Entries list are the books I should read? What about those cancelled novels, what's up with those?

Yeah. The cancelled books are ones that ended up not really fitting with the flow of the story. And you don't really need to read anything that's not a novel. The short stories, ebooks, and comics are kind of extra.

Best books are probably Star by Star, the Edge of Victory duology, and The Unifying Force.

The badguys in the NJO are some of the most brutal and cool villains ever. You'll see.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

Now I have to track all the books down, maaaan I don't know if I have money for all that, we'll see though.

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It's a fairly long series, when I was having to buy them a second time due to my first set getting destroyed I just picked them up in batches and read them as I went. I know Books-A-Million usually still has them.

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Gamertag-Murphiroth
Pokemon Black-1978-9490-1161

What the heck is Books-A-Million.

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