Board 8 > Morgan Webb & Adam Sessler compare Zelda: Skyward Sword and Uncharted 3

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Verdict: Zelda is inferior to Uncharted 3 because the series has not evolved andwill flop as a result.

Summary: Zelda doesn't look nearly as good graphically, and will be inferior due to a "less mature" storyline, and is still using the same gameplay mechanics as Ocarina of Time - just now with pointless waggle controls. Morgan added that Zelda would be far better if it was on a modern console, which will never happen as Nintendo consoles are always a generation behind.

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I see.

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Video

http://www.g4tv.com/videos/55439/action-games-in-depth/

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Please do not mix up "Adam Sessler" and "what X-Play's writers tell him to say".

how can you like sessler so much if he is just a mere puppet? what a pansy this man is to say things that he doesn't believe!

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Also, this comparison seems kinda dumb. Uncharted and Zelda offer two totally different experiences with different goals in mind. I'm probably lacking the context here!

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Adam Sessler: Zelda. I think it is curious. Of course I'm going to play it, but it's not drawing up that same level of enthusiasm that a Zelda game usually would.

Morgan Webb: *Yawns* Okay, I think basically what it is is that you show Zelda and then right after that we showed Uncharted, and just the difference in graphics and just adult nature of Uncharted...the graphics were beautiful.

Adam Sessler: And the evolution of gameplay...it doesn't feel like we've really graduated from what we experienced in Ocarina of Time.

Morgan Webb: And how great would a Zelda game be on a modern console with modern graphics. We're never going to see that.

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ZFS posted...
Also, this comparison seems kinda dumb. Uncharted and Zelda offer two totally different experiences with different goals in mind. I'm probably lacking the context here!

They're talking about big action games releasing this holiday.

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Morgan Webb: And how great would a Zelda game be on a modern console with modern graphics. We're never going to see that.

there is kind of a point there, the wii is essentially a last gen console, just slightly more powerful than the xbox, and nintendo isn't launching a current gen console until next year which will be just slightly better than the 360...nintendo's current strategy is literally to intentionally stay one generation behind their competitors in order to sell at a more attractive price point

lol morgan webb

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Alright, yeah, Morgan Webb.

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Zelda is even losing the kiddie demographic! I talked to a 13 year old the other day who was insistent to me that Skyward Sword was going to be terrible and that he'd rather just keep playing Twilight Princess over and over again than play it.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized
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but then again

game of the year everyone else fighting for second

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As I've touched upon (probably more than anyone on this board with my TP topic), there are definitely changes the Zelda series can make to improve itself, but it seems that some people want to change the core elements of the series. I completely disagree with that. Despite its status as one of the biggest names in gaming, Zelda actually strikes me as a fairly unique series. How many series out there are like it? Are Elder Scrolls dungeons like Zelda dungeons? Is Assassin's Creed exploration like Zelda exploration? Turning Zelda into Uncharted just because one liked Uncharted 2 is a dumb idea.

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How many series out there are like it?

Yeah, and there's a pretty big reason for that.

People actually did used to try and copy Zelda. Remember how last gen, Sony kept trying to come up with "Zelda killers"? They don't do that anymore. Because they don't need to. Zelda killed itself by refusing to evolve.

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Morgan Webb quote generator

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Well, Assassin's Creed exploration is far more engaging than Zelda exploration, so while they might not be the same, I can understand someone saying Zelda isn't the best in that, and other, area anymore.

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PartOfYourWorld posted...
As I've touched upon (probably more than anyone on this board with my TP topic), there are definitely changes the Zelda series can make to improve itself, but it seems that some people want to change the core elements of the series. I completely disagree with that. Despite its status as one of the biggest names in gaming, Zelda actually strikes me as a fairly unique series. How many series out there are like it? Are Elder Scrolls dungeons like Zelda dungeons? Is Assassin's Creed exploration like Zelda exploration? Turning Zelda into Uncharted just because one liked Uncharted 2 is a dumb idea.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I feel that Zelda games would be better without all of the puzzles. To me, they do nothing but slow down the game and pad the time without really adding any extra fun to it. Making it a dungeon crawler and improving the combat, and adding more scripted events in dungeons would make me enjoy it a lot more.

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From: SmartMuffin | #018
Zelda killed itself by refusing to evolve.

Please give me your criteria for "dying." Twilight Princess was a multi-million seller and did pretty darn well critically. Sure, it didn't sweep GotY awards on most sites, but OoT is really the only Zelda to ever do that.

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From: SmartMuffin | #018
Remember how last gen, Sony kept trying to come up with "Zelda killers"?

To be quite honest, no, I don't remember that

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Zelda is even losing the kiddie demographic! I talked to a 13 year old the other day who was insistent to me that Skyward Sword was going to be terrible and that he'd rather just keep playing Twilight Princess over and over again than play it.

but tbh, im not sure if zelda should be trying to evolve into a "series for the older". Zelda is like what blink 182 was for preteens in the late 90s. Good starter band, but then you realize they arent that good aside from a small amount of songs.

Zelda shouldnt try to shed their kiddie image. Due to the lack of deeper story lines in the series (sorry, its true), and the fact that nintendo in general doesnt attract the adult crowd, why even bother? Play to your strengths, don't try to compensate for weaknesses. There is a reason why b8 still loves nintendo despite being laughable since the early gamecube days and a twoish year comeback in like 07/08.

Nintendo needs to keep making things for younger gamers, and ride the loyalty wave. If they are trying to compete with sony/microsoft for the "16 and up crowd", they arent creating a fanbase for upcoming younger generations, and i could see nintendo slowly die out.

first off, LOL G4. Garbage network.

But i have to give props here. They are right. Skyward Sword doesn't look any different from past zelda games, and honestly the franchise has been on the down side for about 10 years now, as they arent trying to grasp younger generations anymore.

With that said, im not super excited about uncharted 3 though.

twilight princess was awful and it simply took a few years for the hype to die down, remember, nintendo's fanbase was after someones head because the game got an 8.8 before they even played it. it sells because nintendo has an extremely unreasonable fanbase, nothing more.

Please give me your criteria for "dying."

Losing market share. At one point, Zelda was the dominant console series that existed. Period. It wasn't even close.

Now it's what, third or fourth at best? I'd say Call of Duty, Halo, and Madden are all bigger without a doubt, and there are probably others as well. Will it sell a couple million and get 9.0s on most review sites? Sure. But lots of games do that.

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Puzzles, as a concept, aren't the problem, but the puzzles Zelda often uses are. Blocks, torches, switches -- Nintendo could stand to give these a rest. Something new and interesting would go a long way, and maybe they're doing that with Skyward Sword, since they can use motion controls as a basis for puzzles now.

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Losing market share. At one point, Zelda was the dominant console series that existed. Period. It wasn't even close.

It never was. Maybe in NA, but its sales were always kinda sluggish in Japan, keeping it back from being one of the best selling overall worldwide. Only OoT sold over a million in Japan IIRC.

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mario always outsold zelda AFAIK, zelda just gets more critical acclaim, or used to anyway.

Something new and interesting would go a long way, and maybe they're doing that with Skyward Sword, since they can use motion controls as a basis for puzzles now.

motion controls being the entire basis of the game, THERE is some good news -_-

From: SmartMuffin | #025
Losing market share. At one point, Zelda was the dominant console series that existed. Period. It wasn't even close.

It was never even close to the best selling and only produced one game that was considered the runaway GotY (LttP and LA were released before gaming awards really existed). It has never once outsold a Mario platformer or carried a console/handheld in the way that Mario and Pokemon do. It's more of a prestige series - the one with a devoted fanbase who claim it to be the greatest thing to ever come out of gaming. If you want to say that it has lost that prestige since Twilight Princess, well that's one thing, but comparing it to Madden doesn't make any sense. In terms of money and exposure, Madden has been bigger for like 15 years.

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If sales are the criteria, there are many more games that sell as well, or better even, than Zelda. Mario and Pokemon from Nintendo alone!

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If you want to say that it has lost that prestige since Twilight Princess, well that's one thing

zelda has lost its prestige over the past decade, majora's mask was the last great game in that series. but you're absolutely right, zelda was never nintendo's biggest money maker, that's mario and pokemon, zelda was just held in higher regard. while nintendo's other high sellers can be accused of being childish or catering to casuals, zelda used to command a lot of respect.

Liquid Wind posted...
motion controls being the entire basis of the game, THERE is some good news -_-

If you believe motion controls are inherently bad, maybe it's not. If you believe they can be used effectively, it could be good news. There's more room for error, but if it means Nintendo tries something new, I'm all for it. Better to try and have a flawed product than to not and continue producing a boring one.

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Yes, and my point isn't just sales or game of the year awards, it's "general prestige" which I will admit is very subjective and hard to quantify. Maybe it's a localized deal too, who knows. I just know that in the past, if you wanted to start a conversation with someone you didn't know too well about video games, you'd probably lead with Zelda because it was the game that everyone was most likely to have played.

These days, you lead with Call of Duty or Madden. Maybe the kiddies still obsess over Zelda, but the teenager I talked to last weekend sure didn't!

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We've already waited almost a decade for a game that would be enhanced with Motion Controls/waggle than with any other control scheme.

I think Boom Blox, RE games, and Rail shooters benefit off it.

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I just know that in the past, if you wanted to start a conversation with someone you didn't know too well about video games, you'd probably lead with Zelda because it was the game that everyone was most likely to have played.

These days, you lead with Call of Duty or Madden. Maybe the kiddies still obsess over Zelda, but the teenager I talked to last weekend sure didn't!

This is less of a Zelda thing and more of Eastern-developed game thing.

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From: SmartMuffin | #034
I just know that in the past, if you wanted to start a conversation with someone you didn't know too well about video games, you'd probably lead with Zelda because it was the game that everyone was most likely to have played.

Zelda and not Mario? I'll agree these days that CoD has probably surpassed Mario as the "convo starter" (what a unique criteria), but Zelda has never held that distinction. Probably not even close. Mario had it until at LEAST 1998 when OoT hit, and Pokemon had just hit as well and took the country by storm. That's also around the time that Madden was getting big and only 2-3 years before Halo. Hell, with a non-gamer in the late 90s, you'd probably have more luck with Goldeneye than Zelda. Everyone played that.

Zelda isn't close to the best selling. It has never dominated gaming media awards as completely as many think (OoT being the notable exception, and even in 1998, MGS, Starcraft, and Half-Life were contenders). For about a decade, Zelda was THE series for people who actually knew video games. For gamers. And yeah, it may have lost that mantle with TP followed by five years of nothing (the handheld games don't really count, come on), but it was never one of the biggest series in gaming.

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SMuffin's anecdotal evidence and vague recollections of the past should be all the proof you need to see that Zelda is a dying series. Open your eyes, man!

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Yeah, the drop in prestige isn't exclusive to Zelda. Japanese games as a whole have suffered this generation. Western games have taken over, in Western countries, as the dominate players on consoles.

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lol Morgan Webb. Just stop talking

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Yeah, the drop in prestige isn't exclusive to Zelda. Japanese games as a whole have suffered this generation. Western games have taken over, in Western countries, as the dominate players on consoles.

Yeah, also not a coincidence. Western companies have built new experiences. Zelda, Final Fantasy, and others are still relying on the same gimmicks that made them popular 20 years ago.

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Zelda needs a hard mode.

It needs regular mode where it's like all other 3D Zeldas where enemies never take off more than a heart, you don't really need to be too strategic in the fights, and the puzzles are basic.

But then you get a hard difficulty. Yes, I know, having difficulties is lame, but modern Zeldas and how easy it is to get through them while never dying and just pushing blocks around in the simplest puzzles ever is annoying. A hard mode with more punishing enemies (not just damage, but strategies as well), tougher puzzles, and more need for different weapons and items.

But then you get a hard difficulty. Yes, I know, having difficulties is lame, but modern Zeldas and how easy it is to get through them while never dying and just pushing blocks around in the simplest puzzles ever is annoying. A hard mode with more punishing enemies (not just damage, but strategies as well), tougher puzzles, and more need for different weapons and items.

i mean tbh, pretty much all games these days are really easy. Its all about the "cinematic experience" now.

I wouldn't say that. Western and Japanese developers have both made new experiences this gen, but there has been an overall shift in the industry for consumer preferences, one that is greatly in favor of Western devs and more in line with what used to be exclusive to PCs but is now making its way to consoles. Platformers were once on top, then RPGs, and now FPSs. Western devs also have a better on the technology, so they can make their games look better and release quicker versus Japanese devs, who have struggled with HD for most of the gen.

Japanese devs also had to balance supporting their domestic market (portable-centric) and the West (console-centric). it's been a rough gen for them all around, but most have been restructuring and preparing for next-gen, so as to avoid the missteps that happened these past six years.

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I was wrong about the Zelda series and Game of the Year awards. It seems that Twilight Princess won more in 2006 than any other game. Hell, it won GotY on X-Play, the same show that's criticizing it compared to Uncharted it in this freakin topic. Pretty hilarious if you ask me.

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I know. You loved the game back in 06!

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Everyone did for a brief time! Same with Brawl! And MGS4!

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This is pretty ridiculous simply because Uncharted is not like Zelda at all. At all. I thought of the IGN Generator as well.

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