Board 8 > Calling things cheap is bulls***.

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 7:42:00 PM
#1:


I love SSB64 and I kept spiking people off the edge in this one game. I did it to this one girl twice and she called it "cheap". We were both Kirby, mind, and she said I was playing him "the wrong way".

that always annoys me. you have to work around that stuff, unless it's actually gamebreaking.

Stuff like this is why I wish I had that sirlin article handy all the time. Quality piece of work.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 7:47:00 PM
#2:


"counter that b****"

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blindhobo13
09/29/11 7:47:00 PM
#3:


When people call whatever I'm doing cheap, I punch them in the face.

Tell him that he can do the exact same thing to you.
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banananor
09/29/11 7:47:00 PM
#4:


so they should use the word unfun or annoying instead

would that make you feel better

/taunt

/taunt

/special finisher

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Ness26
09/29/11 7:47:00 PM
#5:


Let me guess: the right way is flying up, using downB, flying up, using downB, flying up.....

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 7:48:00 PM
#6:


"annoying" works. i'd be annoyed if I got spiked.

but it's part of the game. you gotta work around it.

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metoolfan
09/29/11 7:48:00 PM
#7:


Yeah, s*** works. Everyone wants everyone to play their way

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KingButz
09/29/11 7:48:00 PM
#8:


Ah, to be 13 again. I think my friends called each other "cheap" more than anything

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Regaro_Ukiera
09/29/11 7:48:00 PM
#9:


From: Ness26 | #005
Let me guess: the right way is flying up, using downB, flying up, using downB, flying up.....


Indeed.

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 7:50:00 PM
#10:


Ness26 posted...
Let me guess: the right way is flying up, using downB, flying up, using downB, flying up.....

actually she killed me with downB a bit after that and said "that's how you play as him"

I use that attack sparingly

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JJH777
09/29/11 7:54:00 PM
#11:


Someone who called spiking cheap killed you?

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 7:56:00 PM
#12:


she wasn't a bad player. also it was teams which complicates things.

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LeonhartFour
09/29/11 7:56:00 PM
#13:


Yeah, I had a friend who got annoyed at me for edge guarding once.

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 7:58:00 PM
#14:


yeah one of my friends in my dorm says it's a bit cheap too - but he plays a very good Pikachu and edgeguards with him, so I don't really understand where he's coming from.

he doesn't really complain though.

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CherryCokes
09/29/11 8:00:00 PM
#15:


From: WalrusJump | #010
actually she killed me with downB a bit after that and said "that's how you play as him"

I use that attack sparingly


the best time to use downB is when you've been knocked high in the air and want to surprise your opponent.

downB, downB cancel on impact, air forwardA in the face

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 8:16:00 PM
#16:


preferably when he can't shield

then it's powerful

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GTM
09/29/11 8:20:00 PM
#17:


i once had someone unplug my controller while recovering

told me it wasnt cheap and I had to "work around it"

never played smash with him ever again

smash, ruining friendships since 2001

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WalrusJump
09/29/11 8:22:00 PM
#18:


that's just a dick move

what a crotchbag

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LeonhartFour
09/29/11 8:24:00 PM
#19:


From: GTM | #017
i once had someone unplug my controller while recovering

told me it wasnt cheap and I had to "work around it"


I assume then punching him in the face is fair game, too.

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ShadowHalo17
09/29/11 8:24:00 PM
#20:


I've always felt the same way. There's no such thing as cheap, if the game allows it, then stop your b****ing. If you're actually skilled, then you can find some way around the attack. Especially if it's a spam, then you should be able to figure out how to f***ing block it pretty easily.

It's just like Batman says, the way you go about winning doesn't matter, just so long as you win.

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TheKoolAidShoto
09/29/11 8:34:00 PM
#21:


Unless the character does things your character literally CANNOT do anything about, it's alright. Like, Akuma is ST. SF2 was not built with the air fireball in mind, and it can completely dominate many characters by that single move alone. It's a completely unfair advantage, and that's why he's banned from pretty much all competitive play.

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Dark Young Link
09/29/11 8:38:00 PM
#22:


WalrusJump posted...
We were both Kirby


There's your cheapness right there considering Kirby is broken in the first Smash Brothers. :P



Otherwise I agree with banananor.

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metoolfan
09/29/11 8:57:00 PM
#23:


I imagine edge guarding is frustrating to be on the end of, and when people are competitive they get pissed off and say hypocritical things.

I know I do, anyway.

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Biolizard28
09/29/11 9:03:00 PM
#24:


You were playing a game against a chick, didn't lose on purpose, and you wonder why she called you cheap?

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OmarsComin
09/29/11 9:08:00 PM
#25:


i once had someone unplug my controller while recovering

told me it wasnt cheap and I had to "work around it"


I like this

Unless the character does things your character literally CANNOT do anything about, it's alright. Like, Akuma is ST. SF2 was not built with the air fireball in mind, and it can completely dominate many characters by that single move alone. It's a completely unfair advantage, and that's why he's banned from pretty much all competitive play.

Sagat is unofficially banned in Japan as well, and he's certainly a lot less scummy than Akuma.

I understand the argument that you just have to adjust and there's no such thing as cheap and whatever. That's a good attitude to take with yourself and is in line with always trying to improve your play. When you're playing with friends though and everyone agrees they don't want to play with something I'm cool with banning it. House rules are an easy way to adjust the game so that everyone has fun playing something even though maybe not everyone is at the same skill level.

That's just a general thought, though. Complaining about edge guarding is below the threshold of my scrub tolerance!
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IngmarBirdman
09/29/11 9:16:00 PM
#26:


B moves? ... Kirby in original smash? Lulz. Try mid-air everything, forward-A and down-A drills and the back-A sexkick.

Also never lose on purpose to women in games unless you want to also lose their respect. Yeah they throw a hissy fit at first but it's just a s*** test to see if you'll relent. Show 'em who's boss. Once at a Friday Night Magic I played some younger girl who was piloting a reasonably effective green stompy deck, all things considered. I beat her to death with Hypnotic Specter, which actually caused her to start crying. Didn't matter - by the time the finals rolled around she was back observing, and it was all admiration.

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CherryCokes
09/29/11 10:31:00 PM
#27:


also

nothing more gratifying than ohko with kirby's up+B

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WiggumFan267
09/29/11 11:46:00 PM
#28:


That article looks like one huge support for "there's nothing wrong with glitching to win in games"

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WiggumFan267
09/29/11 11:47:00 PM
#29:


I agree besides that point obv but
It says basically "win by any means necessary"

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WazzupGenius00
09/30/11 12:04:00 AM
#30:


If it's not a game-breaking glitch, what's the problem?

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thundersheep
09/30/11 12:05:00 AM
#31:


My friends tend to avoid doing "cheap" stuff when they play because they're bad at fighting games (not necessarily talking about Smash here). If they find a move that works really well and they use it a couple times and do a ton of damage they'll usually go "Okay, I'll stop, that's cheap" and I'll actually urge them to keep doing it because if I can't learn to counter it... it's my fault.

It doesn't happen often since I'm the only one who is serious about fighting games in my group, so it's usually just when we're all trying out a game for the first time. Personally I try to stay away from using one move or tactic even if it's working because I know that stuff like that won't work on good players. If there is a gap in skill I'll just impose restrictions on myself like trying to finish them with a certain combo, so I'm still trying but not exactly doing anything I can to win.

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shadosneko
09/30/11 8:32:00 AM
#32:


Isn't spiking mentioned in the ****ing in game tutorial?

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BoshStrikesBack
09/30/11 8:36:00 AM
#33:


that always annoys me. you have to work around that stuff, unless it's actually gamebreaking.

That bolded part is important, and I'm glad you included it. Still, using a gamebreaking move isn't "cheap," but rather just limits the quality of the game. "Cheap," for me, always implies that you basically just suck at video games.

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#34
Post #34 was unavailable or deleted.
demonfang178
09/30/11 9:02:00 AM
#35:


WalrusJump posted...
she wasn't a bad player. also it was teams which complicates things.

Then spiking is even more legit.
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GuessMyUserName
09/30/11 9:12:00 AM
#36:


My brother loves using "cheap" tactics as much has he can in absolutely every multiplayer game

when playing Smash, me and my sister always make fun of him for it, and he laughs and jokes about it too because it's true

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BoshStrikesBack
09/30/11 9:51:00 AM
#37:


"Cheap" is reserved for stuff like Akuma T2, Blademaster WC3TFT, and other assorted truly gamebreaking crap.

You forgot Metaknight.

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metroid composite
09/30/11 10:25:00 AM
#38:


I just got called a "skilless cheesing noob" in Starcraft 2 for going 13-gas, 13-pool (which is a slow defensive opening, but apparently the 45 extra seconds of preparation compared to 10-pool wasn't enough time for them to prepare for a build they scouted).

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metroid composite
09/30/11 10:41:00 AM
#39:


Biolizard28 posted...
You were playing a game against a chick, didn't lose on purpose, and you wonder why she called you cheap?

And the "worst post in the topic" award goes to....

(Seriously, if any of you, when playing a game with me, loses on purpose, then I reserve the right to punch you in the face. kthxbai).

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metroid composite
09/30/11 10:48:00 AM
#40:


WiggumFan267 posted...
That article looks like one huge support for "there's nothing wrong with glitching to win in games"

That article is also designed for tournament play. If you glitch Mario Party to win when playing against a 5-year-old, then you're doing it wrong.

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LeonhartFour
09/30/11 11:46:00 AM
#41:


From: BoshStrikesBack | #037
"Cheap" is reserved for stuff like Akuma T2, Blademaster WC3TFT, and other assorted truly gamebreaking crap.

You forgot Metaknight.


No.

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Biolizard28
09/30/11 11:56:00 AM
#42:


From: metroid composite | #039
And the "worst post in the topic" award goes to....


I have never played video games with a woman who enjoyed losing or thought that her loss was fair.

Also, what most of you refer to as cheap, I consider gamebreaking. To me, something that is "cheap" is an effective tactic or character that offers more return than the skill that is put into it. Low skill ceiling, high return. Returns for "cheap."

I know a good amount of you will want my head for this, but the Heavy in Team Fortress 2 is a class I consider cheap. Very easy to use, is basically a points machine, and with the proper support is nearly impossible to kill. He is not gamebreaking in any sense of the word, and he has plenty of counters, but I still think he's too effective for the effort it takes to play him.

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LeonhartFour
09/30/11 12:23:00 PM
#43:


Most of us are well aware of what you think about unfair things in co-op games. You're pretty outspoken about it.

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Biolizard28
09/30/11 12:52:00 PM
#44:


You're also very outspoken about your disdain for me.

Don't start s*** with me when I'm being completely civil.

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LeonhartFour
09/30/11 12:53:00 PM
#45:


You're very presumptive about me disdaining you.

But maybe you're right. You actually weren't overreacting about it, so that's a start.

I apologize.

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paperwarior
09/30/11 12:56:00 PM
#46:


Chess logic: "You beat me again with that strategy. I've got to learn to counter it."
Fighting game logic: "You beat me again with that strategy. You've got to stop using it."

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paperwarior
09/30/11 12:57:00 PM
#47:


As for playing against weaker players, my rule is go easy, but don't lose on purpose.

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metroid composite
09/30/11 1:10:00 PM
#48:


Biolizard28 posted...
I have never played video games with a woman who enjoyed losing or thought that her loss was fair.

But you've played with men who enjoy losing? (Nobody finds losing fun; there are people who don't care whether they win or lose, and just want to have a good time, but nobody is like "hell yeah, I lost, I want to keep losing.")

That said, there's a certain kind of person who whines and makes excuses when they lose, because they really want to win and think they're hot stuff, but they're not. If all the women you've met are like that, then I feel bad for you. It's actually a trait I associate much more with men than women (men are usually the ones who don't want to admit you're actually better than them at a video game).

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TheKoolAidShoto
09/30/11 2:12:00 PM
#49:


From: metroid composite | #048
But you've played with men who enjoy losing?


People who can "man up" to a loss, understand the other guy was better, and learn it from it

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LeonhartFour
09/30/11 2:13:00 PM
#50:


That doesn't mean you like losing!

I try to learn from losing, but I still hate it!

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